My Revised District Proposal Based On Feedback

[Irish LB]

The following two district proposals, one for 8A and one for 7A, are intended to adequately balance the considerations of enrollment, geography, and competitive balance.

8A

District I:
Waukegan
Stevenson
Warren
Barrington
Fremd
Palatine
Zion-Benton
Round Lake

District II:
New Trier
Evanston
Glenbrook South
Niles West
Maine South
Conant
Schaumburg
Niles North

District III:
Huntley
South Elgin
Elgin
St. Charles East
Dundee - Crown
McHenry
Jacobs
Elgin Larkin

District IV:
Lyons
Metea Valley
Naperville Central
Hinsdale Central
Downers Grove South
Naperville North
Lake Park
Glenbard West

District V:
Aurora East
Lockport
West Aurora
Neuqua Valley
Joliet West
Joliet Central
Lincoln-Way East
Waubonsie Valley

District VI:
Bolingbrook
Oswego
Minooka
Oswego East
Plainfield South
Plainfield North
Plainfield East
Plainfield Central

District VII:
Morton
Leyden
Oak Park - River Forest
York
Proviso West
Proviso East
Addison Trail
Willowbrook

District VIII:
Loyola
Marist
Niles Notre Dame
Brother Rice
Benet
Mt. Carmel
St. Rita
Nazareth

Naz is 8a now? Lol better than the 7a projection on here but there’s zero chance the catholic schools agree to such a format.

 

[Alexander32]

Interestingly, Morton is not a "coop", but a "combined interscholastic program involving two separate schools in the same school district"...Bloom is the same, and Joliet did this for some time. Coop schools only have combined teams in the coop sport(s), while combined interscholastic programs combine everything - a district that's so cheap they won't even let each school have its own basketball team...This is why you see coops in some multi-school districts in less common sports (swimming, lacrosse, bowling - see the Rich and Thorn schools). Coop schools each have their own IHSA vote...I don't know if combined interscholastic programs have one vote, or each school gets one...

Nonetheless, I don't see how the IHSA can proceed with districts without another referendum as to how they are broken up. The original question implies 8 classes of the same size, not 48 in 8A and 100 in 1A...Put to a vote, the 71 extra small school votes will likely bury the unequal class sizes. The comment about Brexit above might be appropriate...nobody wants to stay in the current system, but no better system has been proposed once we decide to get rid of the current system.. unfortunately the IHSA can't just pander to the big boys here. Do the 8 equal, then divide geographically in the tightest circles they can...only way to do small classes, and should work for big too...

As I transition from the larger schools to the smaller schools, I have adopted your views (because they are correct). I have transitioned from using the basketball sectionals to simply drawing districts on a map. Essentially I have created eight districts by drawing one vertical line (Route 51) and three horizontal lines (Routes 80, 136, and 70). Then, for the most part, I filled in the schools into each district based on enrollment. When one class level for a district is completed with eight teams, then the next lower class level for that district has teams entered into it. As previously explained I segregated Chicagoland private schools into their own districts and I have found it expedient to do the same for the Chicago Public Schools. I prefer the current system of conferences. Nevertheless, if districts are to work I believe the IHSA will need to negotiate an agreement with the Chicago Public Schools because there are far too many Chicago schools to include them all in the districts.

Here are proposed 4A football districts:

District I
Rockford Christian
Stillman Valley
Rockford Lutheran
Kewanee
Mendota
Princeton
Byron
Winnebago

District II
Richmond - Burton
Johnsburg
Genoa - Kingston
Poplar Grove North Boone
Lisle
Braidwood Reed - Custer
Wilmington
Westmont

District III
Marian Catholic
De La Salle
St. Viator
St. Francis
St. Laurence
Marian Central Catholic
Bishop McNamara
IC Catholic

District IV
Hoopeston / Schlarman / Armstrong
Fairbury Prairie Central
Bloomington Central Catholic
Herscher
Peotone
Paxton - Buckley - Loda
Seneca
Dwight / Gardner - South Wilmington

District V
Quincy Notre Dame
Macomb
Clinton
Havana / Midwest Central
Greenville
Hillsboro
Jacksonville Routt / Springfield Lutheran / Westfair Christian Academy
Petersburg PORTA / A-C Central

District VI
Mattoon
Lincoln
Charleston
Mt. Zion
Taylorville
Olney Richland County
Effingham
Paris

District VII
Alton Marquette
Breese Mater Dei
Freeburg
Carterville
Breese Central
East Alton - Wood River
Roxana
DuQuoin

District VIII
Metropolis Massac County
Vienna / Goreville
Benton
Harrisburg
Anna - Jonesboro
Frankfort
Mt. Carmel
Newton

 

[Alexander32]

This might work with a 4A basketball Sectional. This will not work with a 1A Sectional. Almost every 4A basketball school plays football, but large numbers of 1A basketball schools either don't play or coop football. The 1A cutoff for basketball is 261 kids, while the largest team in the 1A football playoffs last year was 292 kids. (The two year enrollment cutoff for 1A is 299.) Remember, there are 71 schools who coop with someone else for football, and they are mostly 1A size schools, with 14 three school coops and a four school coop...

The current 2A cutoff for basketball is 546 kids, right around the usual 3A/4A football cutoff...last fall the largest 3A was 561.

The issue is that while basketball is a bottom heavy sport, i.e. a quarter of schools are 261 students or less, football is a relatively top heavy sport team wise in enrollment. 6A football largest school is 1792 this year; 5A largest is 1277...while 4A basketball's smallest is 1353...Most of 6A football is 4A basketball.

Proposed 3A football districts:

District I
Peru St. Bede
Erie / Prophetstown
Pecatonica / Durand
Oregon
Sterling Newman Central Catholic
Manlius Bureau Valley
Savanna West Carroll
Lanark Eastland / Pearl City

District II
Chicago Westinghouse
Chicago Payton
Chicago Perspectives (coop)
Chicago Brooks
Chicago Solorio
Chicago Morgan Park
Chicago Urban Prep Bronzeville
Chicago Raby

District III
Monmouth - Roseville
Eureka
Varna Midland / Henry-Senachwine / Lowpoint-Washburn
Elmwood / Brimfield
Flanagan-Cornell / Roanoke-Benson
Sherrard
Farmington
Spring Valley Hall

District IV
Williamsville
Beardstown
New Berlin / Waverly / Franklin
Pleasant Plains
Riverton
Niantic Sangamon Valley / Tri-City
Mendon Unity / Seymour
Rushville - Industry

District V
Piasa Southwestern
Carlinville
Pittsfield / Griggsville-Perry
Virden North Mac
Litchfield
Auburn
Staunton
Gillespie

District VI
Tolono Unity
Monticello
Sullivan / Okaw Valley
St. Joseph - Ogden
Champaign St. Thomas More
Decatur Lutheran / Mt. Pulaski / Decatur Christian
Pana
Maroa - Forsyth

District VII
Pinckneyville
Vandalia
Nashville
Trenton Wesclin
Red Bud
Sparta
Chester
Carlyle

District VIII
Robinson
Fairfield
Christopher / Zeigler-Royalton
Marshall
Oblong / Hutsonville / Palestine
McLeansboro Hamilton County
Flora
Eldorado

 

[Alexander32]

I was just looking at a list of the 20 largest public high schools in the State of Illinois. With Morton, Waukegan, Lane Tech, Aurora East, Lockport, Taft, Joliet West, Sandburg, Joliet Central and Curie on the list, it is apparent that enrollment is well down the list of variables related to football success. Consequently, some flexibility in moving schools up or down one class in order to minimize district travel and in order to address competitive balance is entirely justifiable.

Proposed 2A football districts:

District I
Amboy / LaMoille / Ohio
Port Byron Riverdale
Fulton
Morrison
Dakota
South Beloit
Forreston
Galena

District II
Wheaton Academy
Aurora Central Catholic
Elgin St. Edward
Palos Heights Chicago Christian
Westchester St. Joseph
Chicago Leo
Aurora Christian
Chicago Hope Academy

District III
Chicago Prosser
Chicago Noble Bulls
Chicago Noble ITW Speer
Chicago Vocational
Chicago Noble Comer
Chicago Agricultural Science
Chicago Back of the Yards
Chicago Clark

District IV
Oneida ROWVA / Galva / Williamsfield
Aledo Mercer County
Knoxville
Sciota West Prairie / Bushnell - Prairie City
Hamilton / Warsaw
Taylor Ridge Rockridge
Deer Creek - Mackinaw
Orion

District V
El Paso - Gridley
Clifton Central
Downs Tri-Valley
Minonk Fieldcrest
Momence
Gibson City - Melvin - Sibley
Watseka
Colfax Ridgeview / Lexington

District VI
Carthage Illini West
Pawnee / Lincolnwood
Nokomis / Ramsey
Bunker Hill / Mt. Olive
Athens
Warrensburg - Latham
Kincaid South Fork / Morrisonville / Edinburg
Macon Meridian

District VII
Westville
Decatur St. Teresa
Villa Grove / Heritage
Bismarck - Henning - Rossville - Alvin
Shelbyville
Arthur - Lovington - Atwood - Hammond
Fithian Oakwood
Tuscola

District VIII
Johnston City
Carmi - White County
Lawrenceville
Sesser-Valier / Waltonville
Albion Edwards County
Toledo Cumberland
Bridgeport Red Hill
Casey - Westfield

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

As I transition from the larger schools to the smaller schools, I have adopted your views (because they are correct). I have transitioned from using the basketball sectionals to simply drawing districts on a map.

Should I be blushing...

Somebody on this thread complained that the 2000 to 4000 student spread for 8A is too wide...yet proposing classes with schools from the low 600's to 1300 for 5A doesn't bother anyone...We see in 4A that when the cutoff is high, around 900 like it was in '17, the Morris / Highland / Rochelle schools that usually are 5A end up dominating (Rochester is 766). The difference between a 600 student school and a 1300 school is bigger than the 2000 to 4000 student schools. There is no good way to do this, straight enrollment has its problems, creating a competitive balance creates different problems, whatever decision will cause different issues...8A issues are very different from 1A issues...Private schools have different issues than publics...But history shows that the major talent break in schools is between 700 & 800 students for whatever reason.

 

[Alexander32]

I was just looking at a list of the 20 largest public high schools in the State of Illinois. With Morton, Waukegan, Lane Tech, Aurora East, Lockport, Taft, Joliet West, Sandburg, Joliet Central and Curie on the list, it is apparent that enrollment is well down the list of variables related to football success. Consequently, some flexibility in moving schools up or down one class in order to minimize district travel and in order to address competitive balance is entirely justifiable.

This is the last in a series of proposed football districts for the different class levels. These proposed districts have attempted to appropriately balance the three considerations of enrollment, geography, and competitiveness. Addressing all three of those considerations is the only way to ensure the district program is sustainable. A rigid adherence to enrollment as the sole principle for classifying teams and districts will result in so many blowouts during both the regular season and playoffs that more and more schools will drop the sport. Furthermore, as with advanced placement classes for excellent students, the development of these student-athletes for the future is enhanced by ensuring they are challenged in a competitive environment. With those thoughts in mind, here are the proposed 1A football districts.

District I
Lena - Winslow
East Dubuque
Stockton
Freeport Aquin
Ashton - Franklin Center
Milledgeville
Polo
Hanover River Ridge
Warren
Orangeville

District II
Chicago DePaul College Prep
Chicago Christ the King
River Grove Guerin
Melrose Park Walther Christian
Chicago Orr
Ottawa Marquette
Mooseheart
Kirkland Hiawatha

District III
Chicago Noble Johnson
Chicago Noble Butler
Chicago Noble Rauner
Chicago Hyde Park
Chicago Crane
Chicago Dunbar
Chicago Collins / Manley
Chicago Harper

District IV
Chicago Amundsen
Chicago North Lawndale
Chicago Catalyst Maria
Chicago Urban Prep Englewood
Chicago Carver
Chicago Sullivan
Chicago Julian
Chicago Harlan

District V
Tremont
Kewanee Wethersfield / Annawan
Monmouth United
Cambridge / AlWood
Toulon Stark County
Abingdon - Avon
LeRoy
Cuba / Spoon River Valley
Biggsville West Central
Princeville

District VI
Camp Point Central
Heyworth
Winchester / Bluffs
Concord Triopia / Virginia / Meredosia-Chambersburg
Astoria / Table Grove VIT
Moweaqua Central A & M
Lewistown
Mt. Sterling Brown County

District VII
Gilman Iroquois West
Georgetown - Ridge Farm
Argenta - Oreana
Farmer City Blue Ridge / DeLand-Weldon
Catlin Salt Fork
Cerro Gordo / Bement
Oakland / Shiloh / Kansas
Arcola
Fisher
Martinsville

District VIII
Edwardsville Metro-East Lutheran
Dupo
White Hall North Greene
Greenfield / Palmyra Northwestern
Pleasant Hill / Barry Western
Carrollton
Hardin Calhoun / Brussels
Madison

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

This is the last in a series of proposed football districts for the different class levels. These proposed districts have attempted to appropriately balance the three considerations of enrollment, geography, and competitiveness. Addressing all three of those considerations is the only way to ensure the district program is sustainable. A rigid adherence to enrollment as the sole principle for classifying teams and districts will result in so many blowouts during both the regular season and playoffs that more and more schools will drop the sport. Furthermore, as with advanced placement classes for excellent students, the development of these student-athletes for the future is enhanced by ensuring they are challenged in a competitive environment

Appropriately balance the three considerations of enrollment, geography, and competitiveness....Have you looked at other sports? Just yesterday, girls 3A hoops supersectionals had scores of 70-43, 60-23, 56-40, and 34-24; girls 4A supers had scores of 55-22, 53-34, 66-48, and 50-33. Multiple 30 point Elite 8 games...closest game was 10 points. Tonight's 3A Boys first round basketball only had 8 of 31 30+ point games...Wrestling state finals this weekend...1A 44 & 37 point quarters, 41 point semi, 30 point 3rd place match, 24 point title match...2A 51, 31, & 25 point quarters, 26 & 24 point 3rd & title matches...3A Montini had a 48 point quarter win and 23 point title match win...Moral of the story: enrollment can be "balanced"...geography can be minimized...but competitiveness cannot be controlled. BLOWOUTS HAPPEN EVERY WEEK, even in State Championship weekend games!

IC was going to win the 3A football championship in 2016 no matter how you play with competitiveness except for jacking them up to 4A, and maybe 5A (remember, IC beat a 6A semi team that year)...

And how do you keep 1A from being a race to the bottom...There are 1A schools who haven't been to the playoffs in forever...You are encouraging those schools to drop football - are you propping them up or disgracing them by taking away their good opponents...

 

[Alexander32]

Appropriately balance the three considerations of enrollment, geography, and competitiveness....Have you looked at other sports? Just yesterday, girls 3A hoops supersectionals had scores of 70-43, 60-23, 56-40, and 34-24; girls 4A supers had scores of 55-22, 53-34, 66-48, and 50-33. Multiple 30 point Elite 8 games...closest game was 10 points. Tonight's 3A Boys first round basketball only had 8 of 31 30+ point games...Wrestling state finals this weekend...1A 44 & 37 point quarters, 41 point semi, 30 point 3rd place match, 24 point title match...2A 51, 31, & 25 point quarters, 26 & 24 point 3rd & title matches...3A Montini had a 48 point quarter win and 23 point title match win...Moral of the story: enrollment can be "balanced"...geography can be minimized...but competitiveness cannot be controlled. BLOWOUTS HAPPEN EVERY WEEK, even in State Championship weekend games!

IC was going to win the 3A football championship in 2016 no matter how you play with competitiveness except for jacking them up to 4A, and maybe 5A (remember, IC beat a 6A semi team that year)...

And how do you keep 1A from being a race to the bottom...There are 1A schools who haven't been to the playoffs in forever...You are encouraging those schools to drop football - are you propping them up or disgracing them by taking away their good opponents...

There are limits to what one can or should do to avoid wide margins of victory. This is especially true in girls sports where wide disparities exist between the various talent levels of teams. With that said, there is little value gained by the winner, and almost no value to the loser in a 50+ point blowout that is decided after the first quarter. [The winner gets a W and the backups get to play three quarters instead of one quarter. The loser sees exactly how deficient it is.] There is no developmental value for either team.

There is value to giving teams an opportunity to test themselves in a competitive environment. In order to COMPETE in a sport, by definition a team needs COMPETITION. Therefore, competitive balance is a legitimate consideration. This is why professional sports leagues have drafts and salary caps.

I don't see how I'm encouraging teams to drop football. Giving Guerin and Christ the King an opportunity to play Ottawa Marquette rather than IC Catholic is not likely to cause either team to drop football; but they might lose by 21 points instead of 61 points. Giving Chicago Public Schools the opportunity to play other Chicago Public Schools in similar circumstances is not likely to cause them to drop football. Making them play Mt. Carmel, and Brother Rice, and Marist, and St. Rita every year certainly might make them drop football.

I am not suggesting that competitive balance be the only criterion by which teams are assigned to football districts. In fact, of the three considerations, it can be seen from the districts I've proposed that competitive balance was given the least weight. But I do believe the sporting experience can be improved by giving competitiveness some consideration and making some modifications to the districts when reasonably possible. I suppose you and I have an honest difference of opinion on this issue. That is acceptable to me. I hope it is for you as well.

 

[Alexander32]

7A

District I:
Buffalo Grove
Highland Park
Mundelein
Libertyville
Lake Zurich
Grant
Wheeling
Deerfield

District II:
Prospect
Maine West
Glenbrook North
Elk Grove Village
Hoffman Estates
Rolling Meadows
Hersey
Maine East

District III:
St. Charles North
Streamwood
Geneva
Batavia
DeKalb
Yorkville
Cary - Grove
Hampshire

District IV:
Bartlett
Glenbard East
Glenbard North
Downers Grove North
Wheaton North
West Chicago
Wheaton - Warrenville South
Hinsdale South

District V:
Bloom
Sandburg
Homewood - Flossmoor
Stagg
Simeon
Andrew
Bradley - Bourbonnais
Argo

District VI:
Belleville East
O'Fallon
Edwardsville
Belleville West
Alton
Collinsville
Granite City
East St. Louis

District VII:
Machesney Park Harlem
Rockton Hononegah
Rockford East
Rockford Auburn
Rockford Guilford
Rockford Jefferson
Belvidere North
Rockford Boylan

District VIII:
Normal Community
Moline
Pekin
Normal West
East Moline
Rock Island
Bloomington
Peoria

The proposed districts found on pages two and three of this thread address many of the concerns expressed in the Daily Herald article that was posted today. Moline, for example, would still play Rock Island and United Township within their district. If they would choose to schedule Alleman and Galesburg as their two non-district games, then they would play four of their five current conference foes each year. Only Quincy, which, as the article states, is a long drive anyway, would be removed from Moline's schedule.

The best decisions are derived by melding the best of competing alternatives. Take the best of what conferences offer and meld it with the best of what districts offer. Doing so will provide a superior outcome. That is what the proposed districts on pages two and three of this thread attempt to accomplish.