My Revised District Proposal Based On Feedback

[ramblinman]

Placed them in 7A due to competitive balance. I could swap out Zion-Benton with another school but the idea was to get the best 48 into 8A. Thus schools like Morton for example with 8000 students are in 7A. Waukegan, East Aurora, Joliet Central, and Bloom are other schools I put in 7A instead of 8A based on lack of historical success. That part is naturally going to cause controversy but I feel it at least gives those schools a shot at qualifying for the playoffs eventually versus the current district model which might result in those schools not even fielding programs in 10 years when they are getting consistently blown out in 8A. That's just not right.

I understand why you did what you did here, and most of it really looks interesting and more competitive than what we have now. Unfortunately, the ends can't justify the means when it comes to the IHSA and its member schools. Schools are going to want to know why they are placed where they are, and a subjective decision just won't fly as an answer. Unless you can come up with some sort of objective formula or system that justifies your classification of teams, it leaves those classifications open to serious sniping (see below). Without a formula, the classifications just seem too arbitrary for the IHSA and its membership.

Why does Z-B get a pass into 7A but not York, a team that has not made the playoffs since 2011 and has gone a combined 18-45 since then?

Why is Downers Grove North, a school that has made just two 7A playoff appearances (both ending in first round knockouts) in the past six years, up in 8A? Same with Schaumburg and Prospect?

IC and Mac in 3A will result in some major public school whining. Just sayin'.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I understand why you did what you did here, and most of it really looks interesting and more competitive than what we have now. However, schools are going to want to know why they are placed where they are, and a subjective decision just won't fly as an answer.

Why does Z-B get a pass but not York, a team that has not made the playoffs since 2011 and has gone a combined 18-45 since then?

Why is Downers Grove North, a school that has made just two 7A playoff appearances (both ending in first round knockouts) in the past six years, up in 8A? Same with Schaumburg and Prospect?

IC and Mac in 3A will result in some major public school whining. Just sayin'.

Unless you can come up with some sort of objective formula or system that justifies your classification of teams, it leaves those classifications open to serious sniping. Without a formula, the classifications just seem too arbitrary for the IHSA and its membership.

Yep. At its core this proposal is basically still just "IHSA mandated conferences".

 

[Undercenter3rd1]

In my opinion, disticts are a farce!!! just keep the connferences the way they are and compete!!!

Big question is how do people vote yes,for something that could be worse for your school.

 

[Konza]

Big question is how do people vote yes,for something that could be worse for your school.

If you're Naperville Central (or any of the remaining DVC schools, for that matter), and you're in a five team conference, which means three open dates when most schools are playing conference games, and your program is so good that schools don't want to play you in non-conference games even in weeks 1 and 2, this is good for your school...

I'll throw a few more things out:

If you're the IHSA, with the possible exception of how you draw the lines on the map, everything has to be objective. That means there has to be a formula, and people have to agree to it. They're not subjectively going to place teams into classes. They CAN, however, subjectively place teams within a class into districts, because they can then hide behind Policy 18.

This is new ground for the IHSA; they're generally not in the business of scheduling regular season games.

 

[Undercenter3rd1]

If you're Naperville Central (or any of the remaining DVC schools, for that matter), and you're in a five team conference, which means three open dates when most schools are playing conference games, and your program is so good that schools don't want to play you in non-conference games even in weeks 1 and 2, this is good for your school...

I'll throw a few more things out:

If you're the IHSA, with the possible exception of how you draw the lines on the map, everything has to be objective. That means there has to be a formula, and people have to agree to it. They're not subjectively going to place teams into classes. They CAN, however, subjectively place teams within a class into districts, because they can then hide behind Policy 18.

This is new ground for the IHSA; they're generally not in the business of scheduling regular season games.

I hope it will make the game better for teams that can’t find anyone to play them,and for teams that have been stuck in conferences where they don’t belong.

 

[MunyonMustGo]

I love this plan. I think others clearly have failed to comprehend the reason why certain schools were districted certain places, but this is as close to making everyone happy as possible. I also get the fluctuation in district sizes and fully understand why it was done and why it makes complete sense.

 

[Konza]

Remember when the IHSA calculated a “football enrollment” that was based at least in part on the enrollment of a school’s football opponents?

If you want to move schools up or down to achieve competitive balance, the way to do it would be to have some kind of a multiplier based on recent won loss records.

Just thinking aloud- but let’s say you weight the last five years 5-4-3-2-1, and multiply by the winning percentage each year, including playoff games. That gives you your success factor, which is multiplied by your enrollment. The top 64 scores end up in 8A, the next 64 in 7A, etc. Each geographically split into eight districts of eight. If 1A has more or less, then it does, and the IHSA can deal with it accordingly. Completely objective and transparent. Would be interesting to see how it shakes out. Would you need the non-boundaried school multiplier or the current success factor?

Also: while non-district games wouldn’t count toward playoff qualification, they should figure into playoff seeding.

 

[The Ripper CGB]

Great job on this by NIU!

Lake View is in both 4A and 3A.

I'd suggest moving Rolling Meadows into Prospects place in 8A. Their enrollment is only slightly smaller but they have been much better in football the past few years and clearly the best out of the MSL East. If they get mauled the first two years in 8A, swap them out.

NIU, this would be my biggest question/concern: What would the process be for moving schools either up or down a class? For example, what would Waukegan need to do to get moved up to 8A (where their enrollment says they should be)? Make the playoffs 2 straight years? Win playoff games? I think a process for that needs to be worked out. A different rule would be needed to drop down the MSL East team from 8A (typically 7A enrollment). Perhaps two seasons of no more than 2 district wins total?

 

[woody6]

Maybe some parallels exist between IL HS football's attempt to exit from conference to district structure and Great Britain's defeat today of their proposed exit from the European Union (termed "Br-exit")? The specific plan for the latter was met with dissatisfaction from both sides of the issue and a delay may even result. In review, the voters agreed to leave the EU years ago, but upon seeing the alternative, their representatives in government are backing away.

 

[Trojan Fox]

District #6 (8 Schools…Top 4 advance to IHSA Playoffs)

-Cary Grove 1705

-Crystal Lake Prairie Ridge 1436

-Crystal Lake South 1462

-Crystal Lake Central 1508

-Lake Zurich 1865

-Wauconda 1355

-Grant 1795

-Round Lake 2157

Don't see how Lake Zurich moves down into 6A, nor Round Lake at almost 2200...
I'd figure the d155 schools, the two Belvidere schools, and two rockfords make up the 8

 

[niualum2002]

Great job on this by NIU!

Lake View is in both 4A and 3A.

I'd suggest moving Rolling Meadows into Prospects place in 8A. Their enrollment is only slightly smaller but they have been much better in football the past few years and clearly the best out of the MSL East. If they get mauled the first two years in 8A, swap them out.

NIU, this would be my biggest question/concern: What would the process be for moving schools either up or down a class? For example, what would Waukegan need to do to get moved up to 8A (where their enrollment says they should be)? Make the playoffs 2 straight years? Win playoff games? I think a process for that needs to be worked out. A different rule would be needed to drop down the MSL East team from 8A (typically 7A enrollment). Perhaps two seasons of no more than 2 district wins total?

Good question on the process part. I imagine there would need to be parameters in place once it got rolling. Mine was more of a hypothetical starting point just to see what the districts could look like.

 

[niualum2002]

I understand why you did what you did here, and most of it really looks interesting and more competitive than what we have now. Unfortunately, the ends can't justify the means when it comes to the IHSA and its member schools. Schools are going to want to know why they are placed where they are, and a subjective decision just won't fly as an answer. Unless you can come up with some sort of objective formula or system that justifies your classification of teams, it leaves those classifications open to serious sniping (see below). Without a formula, the classifications just seem too arbitrary for the IHSA and its membership.

Why does Z-B get a pass into 7A but not York, a team that has not made the playoffs since 2011 and has gone a combined 18-45 since then?

Why is Downers Grove North, a school that has made just two 7A playoff appearances (both ending in first round knockouts) in the past six years, up in 8A? Same with Schaumburg and Prospect?

IC and Mac in 3A will result in some major public school whining. Just sayin'.

All good points and why there would need to be more objective measures in place once it got rolling. This was more of a hypothetical exercise in showing that districts could be done much better than what the IHSA is looking at currently.

 

[go dogz]

niu - I understand your concept, however, you will need to use a metrics based on fbe and competitiveness.
currently you have Richards in 7a - they are a higher tier 6a team. compete well with the likes of c-m, lemont, provi, you should have the following teams as a district
Richards, lemont, provi, mont, oak forest, c-m, st larry.
and they can crossover and play like jca, morris, tfsouth, phillips, Yorkville, naz, Hinsdale s or willowbrook.
you would need to put
oaklawn, argo, shep, tfn, tp, thorton, marian, hillcrest, Bremen, st iggy, r-b, mopo, hubbard, st pats

reavis had 28kids on the team, barely enough to practice with.
now what it does do however, it helps with schools that are better in different sports. (soccer v football)etc. and it gives you the flexibility to move them around in districts based on competitiveness.

 

[gobucsgo]

I would say that enrollments matter. Just because the schools are close to each other doesn’t mean you should lump them into the same class for convenience.

And class should have the same amount of teams. I can’t justify 48 teams in 8A and 76 in 1A.

If there are 518 football member schools. It should be 7 classes with 64 teams. 1 class with 70 teams. The 64 teams have 8 schools in their district and the iHSA schedules the crossover game. In the 70 team class, 6 districts have 1 crossover game and the other two districts have 2 crossover games. It would just make things easier for The IHSA. Yes I know. What about traveling outside the state? Nope. Not gonna do it.
Just my opinion.

 

[Undercenter3rd1]

What if your a school with 4000 kids for enrollment and you only have 40 kids on varsity,Also have losing record last 20 yrs?
Then you have school like Naz with small enrollment but 80 kids on varsity and state championship rings on all your fingers!
So naz would beat that 4K school by 50 points but naz is 2 classes lower than 4K team??

 

[niualum2002]

niu - I understand your concept, however, you will need to use a metrics based on fbe and competitiveness.
currently you have Richards in 7a - they are a higher tier 6a team. compete well with the likes of c-m, lemont, provi, you should have the following teams as a district
Richards, lemont, provi, mont, oak forest, c-m, st larry.
and they can crossover and play like jca, morris, tfsouth, phillips, Yorkville, naz, Hinsdale s or willowbrook.
you would need to put
oaklawn, argo, shep, tfn, tp, thorton, marian, hillcrest, Bremen, st iggy, r-b, mopo, hubbard, st pats

reavis had 28kids on the team, barely enough to practice with.
now what it does do however, it helps with schools that are better in different sports. (soccer v football)etc. and it gives you the flexibility to move them around in districts based on competitiveness.

Agreed on the FBE and metric for competitiveness component. It would need to be a system that fairly sorts schools to avoid things like the Reavis and Richards situation like you mentioned. Potential things to be in that metric? Maybe some combination of number of players, % free and reduced lunch population, and historical success factors.

Obviously the success factor and multiplier that I'd be eliminating would be then reinstituted via this metric but at least it would apply across the board to all schools not just private schools.

 

[niualum2002]

I would say that enrollments matter. Just because the schools are close to each other doesn’t mean you should lump them into the same class for convenience.

And class should have the same amount of teams. I can’t justify 48 teams in 8A and 76 in 1A.

If there are 518 football member schools. It should be 7 classes with 64 teams. 1 class with 70 teams. The 64 teams have 8 schools in their district and the iHSA schedules the crossover game. In the 70 team class, 6 districts have 1 crossover game and the other two districts have 2 crossover games. It would just make things easier for The IHSA. Yes I know. What about traveling outside the state? Nope. Not gonna do it.
Just my opinion.

Enrollments do matter which was the justification for making 8A smaller. Right now the difference in enrollments in 8A range from 2000-4000. In no other class is there that large of an enrollment disparity. Reducing the size of 8A would narrow that disparity somewhat combined with some sort of metric as mentioned earlier to balance out number of actual players and success. Not knowing what that metric would be l, I just grouped schools from more of a subjective feel standpoint which wouldn't be the case if a different metric other than enrollment could be agreed upon.

 

[Alexander32]

Enrollments do matter which was the justification for making 8A smaller. Right now the difference in enrollments in 8A range from 2000-4000. In no other class is there that large of an enrollment disparity. Reducing the size of 8A would narrow that disparity somewhat combined with some sort of metric as mentioned earlier to balance out number of actual players and success. Not knowing what that metric would be l, I just grouped schools from more of a subjective feel standpoint which wouldn't be the case if a different metric other than enrollment could be agreed upon.

I was just looking at a list of the 20 largest public high schools in the State of Illinois. With Morton, Waukegan, Lane Tech, Aurora East, Lockport, Taft, Joliet West, Sandburg, Joliet Central and Curie on the list, it is apparent that enrollment is well down the list of variables related to football success. Consequently, some flexibility in moving schools up or down one class in order to minimize district travel and in order to address competitive balance is entirely justifiable.

 

[Alexander32]

I was just looking at a list of the 20 largest public high schools in the State of Illinois. With Morton, Waukegan, Lane Tech, Aurora East, Lockport, Taft, Joliet West, Sandburg, Joliet Central and Curie on the list, it is apparent that enrollment is well down the list of variables related to football success. Consequently, some flexibility in moving schools up or down one class in order to minimize district travel and in order to address competitive balance is entirely justifiable.

Also, there appear to be 36 private schools playing football in the Chicagoland area. I would segregate those schools from the public schools with respect to districts and create four eight-team districts and one four-team conference. The 36 private schools could vote for the best eight teams to create an 8A district, the second best eight teams to create a 6A district, the third best eight teams to create a 4A district, and the fourth best eight teams to create a 2A district. The remaining four teams would comprise a conference that would not be eligible for the playoffs. After the first year a relegation system would be used so that the last-place team in the 8A district would be relegated to the 6A district, and replaced by the first-place team from the 6A district. Similarly, the last-place team from the 6A district would be relegated to 4A and would be replaced by the first-place team in the 4A district. This would also be done between 4A and 2A, and between 2A and the four-team conference. The members of the four-team conference could play a home-and-home series each year and then fill the remaining three games on their schedule with nonconference games. Although segregated into separate districts, the private schools would participate in the regular playoffs each year and could, of course, schedule public schools as part of their two non-district games each year.

 

[Alexander32]

Also, there appear to be 36 private schools playing football in the Chicagoland area. I would segregate those schools from the public schools with respect to districts and create four eight-team districts and one four-team conference. The 36 private schools could vote for the best eight teams to create an 8A district, the second best eight teams to create a 6A district, the third best eight teams to create a 4A district, and the fourth best eight teams to create a 2A district. The remaining four teams would comprise a conference that would not be eligible for the playoffs. After the first year a relegation system would be used so that the last-place team in the 8A district would be relegated to the 6A district, and replaced by the first-place team from the 6A district. Similarly, the last-place team from the 6A district would be related to 4A and would be replaced by the first-place team in the 4A district. This would also be done between 4A and 2A, and between 2A and the four-team conference. The members of the four-team conference could play a home-and-home series each year and then fill the remaining three games on their schedule with nonconference games. Although segregated into separate districts, the private schools would participate in the regular playoffs each year and could, of course, schedule public schools as part of their two non-district games each year.

Regarding the Chicagoland private schools, no success factor would be applied to individual schools. However, in four-year intervals success factors would be applied to entire districts in the following manner. If a district produced three or more state champions in the previous five years, then the district would be moved up one class (except of course the 8A district). If a district produced no state champions in the previous five years, then it would be moved down one class.

 

[Alexander32]

Regarding the Chicagoland private schools, no success factor would be applied to individual schools. However, in five-year intervals success factors would be applied to entire districts in the following manner. If a district produced three or more state champions in the previous five years, then the district would be moved up one class (except of course the 8A district). If a district produced no state champions in the previous five years, then it would be moved down one class.

The Chicagoland private school districts for 2021 would probably look something like this:

8A
Loyola
Marist
Niles Notre Dame
Brother Rice
Benet
Mount Carmel
St. Rita
Nazareth

6A
St. Ignatius
St. Patrick
Carmel
Fenwick
Marmion
Providence
Montini
Joliet Catholic

4A
Marian Catholic
De La Salle
St. Viator
St. Francis
St. Laurence
Marian Central Catholic
Bishop McNamara
IC Catholic

2A
Wheaton Academy
Aurora Central Catholic
St. Edward
Chicago Christian
St. Joseph
Leo
Aurora Christian
Hope Academy

Four-Team Conference
DePaul College Prep
Guerin
Walther Christian
Mooseheart

 

[Alexander32]

The Chicagoland private school districts for 2021 would probably look something like this:

8A
Loyola
Brother Rice
Marist
Nazareth
Mount Carmel
St. Rita
Benet
Providence

6A
Joliet Catholic
Montini
Notre Dame (Niles)
Carmel
St. Patrick
Fenwick
St. Viator
St. Ignatius

4A
IC Catholic
Bishop McNamara
De La Salle
Marmion
St. Francis
St. Laurence
Wheaton Academy
Marian Central Catholic

2A
Hope
Aurora Christian
Marian Catholic
St. Joseph
St. Edward
Chicago Christian
Aurora Central Catholic
Leo

Four-Team Conference
DePaul College Prep
Walther Christian
Mooseheart
Guerin

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (every two years) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollments would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollments would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

 

[Alexander32]

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (each year) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollment would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollment would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

One remaining task would be to properly classify those private schools that are not located in the Chicagoland area. These schools would be mixed in with public schools to comprise an eight-team district and therefore it is important to properly determine what class level they should play in. The current multiplier can be used to determine their baseline enrollment. Then a simple success factor can be used after that. Every two years a review can be done of how many state championships have been won over the previous five years. Each championship more than one would raise the team by one class level. So, for example, a team that has won three state championships in the previous five years would play in a district that is two class levels higher than its baseline class level.

 

[Alexander32]

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (each year) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollment would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollment would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

Here is one brief example of how the districting would work. One of the 8A football districts would be comprised of the following teams because they are the eight largest schools in the 4A Waukegan basketball sectional.
Waukegan
Stevenson
Warren
Barrington
Fremd
Palatine
Zion-Benton
Round Lake

However, whichever one of the schools had the lowest aggregate winning percentage over the previous five years (perhaps Waukegan?), that school would be dropped to 7A. It would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage of the next eight largest schools in the Waukegan sectional (perhaps Lake Zurich?).

 

[Alexander32]

Here is one brief example of how the districting would work. One of the 8A football districts would be comprised of the following teams because they are the eight largest schools in the 4A Waukegan basketball sectional.
Waukegan
Warren
Stevenson
Barrington
Fremd
Palatine
Zion-Benton
Prospect

However, whichever one of the schools had the lowest aggregate winning percentage over the previous five years (perhaps Waukegan?), that school would be dropped to 7A. It would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage of the next eight largest schools in the Waukegan sectional (perhaps Lake Zurich?).

Another 8A district would be:
New Trier
Evanston
Taft
Glenbrook South
Niles West
Maine South
Conant
Schaumburg

These are the eight largest schools in the Skokie 4A sectional.

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

I appreciate all the work you guys are doing trying to figure out a way to make Districts work. But what is becoming readily apparent is that there is no real good way to make Districts work.

It certainly will not solve any or all the existing problems without causing a like number of new problems with scheduling and creating post season tournaments.

 

[Undercenter3rd1]

I appreciate all the work you guys are doing trying to figure out a way to make Districts work. But what is becoming readily apparent is that there is no real good way to make Districts work.

It certainly will not solve any or all the existing problems without causing a like number of new problems with scheduling and creating post season tournaments.

To many schools stuck in conferences for to long taking a beating!That and scheduling non conference games has been the Achilles.It absolutely crazy that Main south does not lose a conference game in 10 yrs,and there’s no adjustments to that conference.Thats a joke!So conferences are screwed up all over.

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

To many schools stuck in conferences for to long taking a beating!That and scheduling non conference games has been the Achilles.It absolutely crazy that Main south does not lose a conference game in 10 yrs,and there’s no adjustments to that conference.Thats a joke!So conferences are screwed up all over.

Agreed. But the real question is how screwed up are Districts going to be?

Unfortunately right now I cannot say that Districts will be any better, except we'll have a whole new set of problems that nobody is used to dealing with.

 

[tomloner]

I predict that there will be a re-vote, it will be close but will be overturned. Like the (un)Affordable Care Act we had to pass it to see what was in it without knowing how it would play out.

There will be a big push that only schools that play football get to vote on this proposal: One possible change to a new proposal would be to allow only schools that have football teams to vote. Voting on by-law amendment proposals was at an all-time high this year, with 702 of 818 member schools casting a ballot. However, only 548 teams play football.

Coops will only get one vote: allow just one vote per team instead of one vote per school. Co-op teams like Unity-Payson or West Hancock (Warsaw and Hamilton) actually get two votes.

As reported by Steve Soucie a number of coaches who voted for it have had a change of heart: I've had 10 people who told me off the record that they voted for it, but now after seeing it, they would strongly consider changing their vote or at least having a longer and more drawn-out conversation about it.

Three of the proponents from the football advisory board terms end this year: Andy Lutzenkirchen from Naperville Central, Josh Jostes from Maroa-Forsyth and Jeremy Adolphson from Monmouth-Roseville. All three of them were in favor of the district proposal that was sent to the legislative committee. Their replacements have not been named.

I think the odds are better than 50/50 it not going to happen.

https://www.whig.com/20190130/creation-of-football-districts-may-lead-to-other-changes

 

[Alexander32]

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (every two years) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollments would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollments would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

The following two district proposals, one for 8A and one for 7A, are intended to adequately balance the considerations of enrollment, geography, and competitive balance.

8A

District I:
Waukegan
Stevenson
Warren
Barrington
Fremd
Palatine
Zion-Benton
Round Lake

District II:
New Trier
Evanston
Glenbrook South
Niles West
Maine South
Conant
Schaumburg
Niles North

District III:
Huntley
South Elgin
Elgin
St. Charles East
Dundee - Crown
McHenry
Jacobs
Elgin Larkin

District IV:
Lyons
Metea Valley
Naperville Central
Hinsdale Central
Downers Grove South
Naperville North
Lake Park
Glenbard West

District V:
Aurora East
Lockport
West Aurora
Neuqua Valley
Joliet West
Joliet Central
Lincoln-Way East
Waubonsie Valley

District VI:
Bolingbrook
Oswego
Minooka
Oswego East
Plainfield South
Plainfield North
Plainfield East
Plainfield Central

District VII:
Morton
Leyden
Oak Park - River Forest
York
Proviso West
Proviso East
Addison Trail
Willowbrook

District VIII:
Loyola
Marist
Niles Notre Dame
Brother Rice
Benet
Mt. Carmel
St. Rita
Nazareth

 

[woody6]

I predict that there will be a re-vote, it will be close but will be overturned. Like the (un)Affordable Care Act we had to pass it to see what was in it without knowing how it would play out.

There will be a big push that only schools that play football get to vote on this proposal: One possible change to a new proposal would be to allow only schools that have football teams to vote. Voting on by-law amendment proposals was at an all-time high this year, with 702 of 818 member schools casting a ballot. However, only 548 teams play football.

Coops will only get one vote: allow just one vote per team instead of one vote per school. Co-op teams like Unity-Payson or West Hancock (Warsaw and Hamilton) actually get two votes.

As reported by Steve Soucie a number of coaches who voted for it have had a change of heart: I've had 10 people who told me off the record that they voted for it, but now after seeing it, they would strongly consider changing their vote or at least having a longer and more drawn-out conversation about it.

Three of the proponents from the football advisory board terms end this year: Andy Lutzenkirchen from Naperville Central, Josh Jostes from Maroa-Forsyth and Jeremy Adolphson from Monmouth-Roseville. All three of them were in favor of the district proposal that was sent to the legislative committee. Their replacements have not been named.

I think the odds are better than 50/50 it not going to happen.

https://www.whig.com/20190130/creation-of-football-districts-may-lead-to-other-changes

This is an excellent post with a few highlight quotes from an outstanding article found using the link at the very end.

 

[Alexander32]

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (every two years) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollments would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollments would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

7A

District I:
Buffalo Grove
Highland Park
Mundelein
Libertyville
Lake Zurich
Grant
Wheeling
Deerfield

District II:
Prospect
Maine West
Glenbrook North
Elk Grove Village
Hoffman Estates
Rolling Meadows
Hersey
Maine East

District III:
St. Charles North
Streamwood
Geneva
Batavia
DeKalb
Yorkville
Cary - Grove
Hampshire

District IV:
Bartlett
Glenbard East
Glenbard North
Downers Grove North
Wheaton North
West Chicago
Wheaton - Warrenville South
Hinsdale South

District V:
Bloom
Sandburg
Homewood - Flossmoor
Stagg
Simeon
Andrew
Bradley - Bourbonnais
Argo

District VI:
Belleville East
O'Fallon
Edwardsville
Belleville West
Alton
Collinsville
Granite City
East St. Louis

District VII:
Machesney Park Harlem
Rockton Hononegah
Rockford East
Rockford Auburn
Rockford Guilford
Rockford Jefferson
Belvidere North
Rockford Boylan

District VIII:
Normal Community
Moline
Pekin
Normal West
East Moline
Rock Island
Bloomington
Peoria

 

[Cross Bones]

The following two district proposals, one for 8A and one for 7A, are intended to adequately balance the considerations of enrollment, geography, and competitive balance.

8A

District I:
Waukegan
Stevenson
Warren
Barrington
Fremd
Palatine
Zion-Benton
Round Lake

District II:
New Trier
Evanston
Glenbrook South
Niles West
Maine South
Conant
Schaumburg
Niles North

District III:
Huntley
South Elgin
Elgin
St. Charles East
Dundee - Crown
McHenry
Jacobs
Elgin Larkin

District IV:
Lyons
Metea Valley
Naperville Central
Hinsdale Central
Downers Grove South
Naperville North
Lake Park
Glenbard West

District V:
Aurora East
Lockport
West Aurora
Neuqua Valley
Joliet West
Joliet Central
Lincoln-Way East
Waubonsie Valley

District VI:
Bolingbrook
Oswego
Minooka
Oswego East
Plainfield South
Plainfield North
Plainfield East
Plainfield Central

District VII:
Morton
Leyden
Oak Park - River Forest
York
Proviso West
Proviso East
Addison Trail
Willowbrook

District VIII:
Loyola
Marist
Niles Notre Dame
Brother Rice
Benet
Mt. Carmel
St. Rita
Nazareth

Not sure on the competitive balance here. Geography works though. Look at District 1 vs 7.

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (every two years) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollments would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollments would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

This might work with a 4A basketball Sectional. This will not work with a 1A Sectional. Almost every 4A basketball school plays football, but large numbers of 1A basketball schools either don't play or coop football. The 1A cutoff for basketball is 261 kids, while the largest team in the 1A football playoffs last year was 292 kids. (The two year enrollment cutoff for 1A is 299.) Remember, there are 71 schools who coop with someone else for football, and they are mostly 1A size schools, with 14 three school coops and a four school coop...

The current 2A cutoff for basketball is 546 kids, right around the usual 3A/4A football cutoff...last fall the largest 3A was 561.

The issue is that while basketball is a bottom heavy sport, i.e. a quarter of schools are 261 students or less, football is a relatively top heavy sport team wise in enrollment. 6A football largest school is 1792 this year; 5A largest is 1277...while 4A basketball's smallest is 1353...Most of 6A football is 4A basketball.

 

[Alexander32]

Not sure on the competitive balance here. Geography works though. Look at District 1 vs 7.

I agree the proposed District VII is probably the weakest district in Class 8A (some district has to be), but it does have some strength. This past fall Willowbrook went 9-0 during the regular season and was the champion of the West Suburban Gold Conference.They won two playoff games before falling to Batavia in the quarterfinals. Oak Park - River Forest was a co-champion of the West Suburban Silver Conference (along with Glenbard West and Hinsdale Central) and defeated New Trier in the playoffs before falling to Brother Rice. Additionally, competitive balance can be viewed with respect to competitiveness within a district as well as competitiveness between districts. Morton and Leyden are two of the largest schools in the state and therefore cannot reasonably be dropped down to Class 7A. Yet they are not particularly strong football programs so perhaps it is a good thing, when considering competitive balance, that the district they find themselves in is not too strong. Oak Park - River Forest is probably the strongest program in that district, but even they are not a top ten 8A program. District VII, as proposed, promises to be one of the most competitive districts year after year amongst the eight teams within the district.

 

[Alexander32]

This might work with a 4A basketball Sectional. This will not work with a 1A Sectional. Almost every 4A basketball school plays football, but large numbers of 1A basketball schools either don't play or coop football. The 1A cutoff for basketball is 261 kids, while the largest team in the 1A football playoffs last year was 292 kids. (The two year enrollment cutoff for 1A is 299.) Remember, there are 71 schools who coop with someone else for football, and they are mostly 1A size schools, with 14 three school coops and a four school coop...

The current 2A cutoff for basketball is 546 kids, right around the usual 3A/4A football cutoff...last fall the largest 3A was 561.

The issue is that while basketball is a bottom heavy sport, i.e. a quarter of schools are 261 students or less, football is a relatively top heavy sport team wise in enrollment. 6A football largest school is 1792 this year; 5A largest is 1277...while 4A basketball's smallest is 1353...Most of 6A football is 4A basketball.

Your comments ring true and I understand your point. Still, I'm not sure the proposed general principle that would guide the football district alignments becomes invalid. The value of using the basketball sectionals for guidance is that geographical boundaries have already been drawn that are generally accepted by the involved stakeholders. For the most part the 4A and 3A basketball sectionals can be used without considering the effects of coops because few schools coop at those enrollment levels. [Interestingly, the largest football program in the State of Illinois, as measured by enrollment, is a coop. Morton is comprised of two high schools.]

When moving down to the 2A and 1A basketball sectionals the effect of coops becomes significant. Certainly the combined enrollment numbers of the schools that coop need to be used for football classification purposes. However, these schools (because they are fairly close together) would still be playing in the same basketball sectionals. The 4A basketball sectionals can be used effectively for aligning 8A and 7A football programs into districts. Some combination of 4A and 3A basketball sectionals can be used to align 6A and 5A football programs into districts. I am supposing, although admittedly I've not done the work and therefore I don't know for sure, that some combination of the 2A and 1A basketball sectional boundaries can be used to align the 4A, 3A, 2A and 1A football programs into appropriate districts. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to work through all eight class levels in order to find out.

Even if the hypothesis doesn't work for the smaller schools, it can be used for the larger schools and some other method can be devised for the smaller schools. If anything, the smaller schools should be easier to assign districts because they are spread more uniformly throughout the state whereas the larger schools tend to be bunched geographically. I believe the 8A and 7A football districts I have proposed above are an improvement over the districting I have seen so far.

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

Your comments ring true and I understand your point. Still, I'm not sure the proposed general principle that would guide the football district alignments becomes invalid. The value of using the basketball sectionals for guidance is that geographical boundaries have already been drawn that are generally accepted by the involved stakeholders. For the most part the 4A and 3A basketball sectionals can be used without considering the effects of coops because few schools coop at those enrollment levels. [Interestingly, the largest football program in the State of Illinois, as measured by enrollment, is a coop. Morton is comprised of two high schools.]

When moving down to the 2A and 1A basketball sectionals the effect of coops becomes significant. Certainly the combined enrollment numbers of the schools that coop need to be used for football classification purposes. However, these schools (because they are fairly close together) would still be playing in the same basketball sectionals. The 4A basketball sectionals can be used effectively for aligning 8A and 7A football programs into districts. Some combination of 4A and 3A basketball sectionals can be used to align 6A and 5A football programs into districts. I am supposing, although admittedly I've not done the work and therefore I don't know for sure, that some combination of the 2A and 1A basketball sectional boundaries can be used to align the 4A, 3A, 2A and 1A football programs into appropriate districts. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to work through all eight class levels in order to find out.

Even if the hypothesis doesn't work for the smaller schools, it can be used for the larger schools and some other method can be devised for the smaller schools. If anything, the smaller schools should be easier to assign districts because they are spread more uniformly throughout the state whereas the larger schools tend to be bunched geographically. I believe the 8A and 7A football districts I have proposed above are an improvement over the districting I have seen so far.

Interestingly, Morton is not a "coop", but a "combined interscholastic program involving two separate schools in the same school district"...Bloom is the same, and Joliet did this for some time. Coop schools only have combined teams in the coop sport(s), while combined interscholastic programs combine everything - a district that's so cheap they won't even let each school have its own basketball team...This is why you see coops in some multi-school districts in less common sports (swimming, lacrosse, bowling - see the Rich and Thorn schools). Coop schools each have their own IHSA vote...I don't know if combined interscholastic programs have one vote, or each school gets one...

Nonetheless, I don't see how the IHSA can proceed with districts without another referendum as to how they are broken up. The original question implies 8 classes of the same size, not 48 in 8A and 100 in 1A...Put to a vote, the 71 extra small school votes will likely bury the unequal class sizes. The comment about Brexit above might be appropriate...nobody wants to stay in the current system, but no better system has been proposed once we decide to get rid of the current system.. unfortunately the IHSA can't just pander to the big boys here. Do the 8 equal, then divide geographically in the tightest circles they can...only way to do small classes, and should work for big too...

 

[Konza]

After entering the enrollment and the football records for the last five years for every school in the state with an enrollment above 800, I applied my "results factor" and came up with the following for the three largest classes:

8A1: Glenbrook South, Loyola, New Trier, Niles Notre Dame, Stevenson, Warren, Waukegan, Zion-Benton.
8A2: CPS Curie, CPS Lane Tech, CPS Lincoln Park, CPS Taft, CPS Von Steuben, SPS Washington, CPS Whitney Young, Evanston.
8A3: Barrington, Bartlett, Fremd, Hononegah, Huntley, Maine South, Palatine, South Elgin.
8A4: CPS Simeon, Leyden, Lyons, Morton, Mt. Carmel, OPRF, St. Ignatius, York.
8A5: Batavia, East Aurora, Metea Valley, Neuqua Valley, Neuqua Valley, Oswego, Oswego East, Waubonsie Valley, West Aurora.
8A6: Benet, Downers Grove South, Glenbard East, Glenbard West, Hinsdale Central, Naperville Central, Naperville North, St. Charles East.
8A7: Bloom, Bolingbrook, Brother Rice, Homewood-Flossmoor, Lincoln-Way Central, Lincoln-Way East, Marist, Sandburg.
8A8: Edwardsville, Joliet Central, Joliet West, Lockport, Minooka, Normal Community, Plainfield North, Plainfield South.

7A1: Alton, Belleville East, Belleville West, Normal West, O'Fallon, Pekin, Plainfield East, Quincy.
7A2: DeKalb, Jacobs, Machesney Park Harlem, McHenry, Moline, Prairie Ridge, Rockford Auburn, Rockford East.
7A3: Buffalo Grove, CPS Senn, Glenbrook North, Highland Park, Lake Zurich, Libertyville, Maine West, Niles West
7A4: Elgin, Geneva, Glenbard North, Lake Park, Larkin, St. Charles North, Wheaton North, Wheaton-Warrenville South.
7A5: Cary-Grove, Conant, Dundee-Crown, Hersey, Hoffman Estates, Prospect, Rolling Meadows, Schaumburg.
7A6: Addison Trail, CPS Phoenix Military, CPS Prosser, CPS Steinmetz, CPS Westinghouse, Fenwick, St. Patrick, Willowbrook.
7A7: Andrew, Downers Grove North, Eisenhower, Lincoln-Way West, Reavis, Richards, Shepard, Stagg.
7A8: Bradley-Bourbonnais, CPS Hubbard, CPS Payton, CPS Perspectives, CPS Solorio, Crete-Monee, St. Rita, TF South.

6A1: Antioch, Carmel, Fox Lake Grant, Grayslake North, Lake Forest, Lake Villa Lakes, Mundelein, Round Lake.
6A2: Belvidere North, Crystal Lake Central, Crystal Lake South, Elk Grove, Fenton, Hampshire, Streamwood, Wauconda.
6A3: Bloomington, Chatham Glenwood, Collinsville, Danville, East St. Louis, Granite City, Springfield HS, Springfield SHG.
6A4: Hinsdale South, Kaneland, Lemont, Marmion, Plainfield South, Romeoville, West Chicago, Yorkville.
6A5: CPS Mather, CPS Roosevelt, CPS Schurz, Deerfield, Maine East, Niles North, Vernon Hills, Wheeling.
6A6: Dunlap, Peoria HS, Peroria Notre Dame, Rock Island, Rockford Boylan, Rockford Guilford, Sterling, Washington.
6A7: Argo, CPS Kelly, CPS Kennedy, Nazareth, Oak Lawn, Proviso East, Proviso West, Riverside-Brookfield.
6A8: CPS Chicago Vocational, CPS Juarez, CPS Kenwood, CPS Lindblom, Hillcrest, Providence, Thornton, Thornwood.

Some thoughts/explanations:

• CPS=Chicago Public Schools.
• Some schools are probably above their comfort level here, and they're almost all non-boundaried schools subject to the multiplier. I used the 1.65 multiplier on all non-boundaried schools, public or private, even if they were eligible for a waiver. The major concern would be for the non-boundaried CPS schools.
• Enrollment floors: 8A=3509. 7A=2660. 6A=1927. I suspect these numbers will vary a bit from year to year, but if your school's enrollment stays above the floor, you will play no lower than that class. There are 13 schools >3509, 37>2660, and 99>1927.
• I suspect a smaller school could sneak up into 6A; if you had an enrollment of 799, were subject to the 1.65 multiplier, and had a perfect record for the last five seasons, that would yield 2636. Without the multiplier, though, you don't crack 1600 regardless of your record.
• Highest score: Morton. #64: Lincoln-Way Central. #65: CPS Prosser. #128: Addison Trail. #129: Carmel. #192: Wauconda. #193: Sycamore.

Enjoy.

 

[Alexander32]

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (every two years) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollments would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollments would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

In the continuing attempt to properly balance the considerations of enrollment, travel times, and competitiveness, here are proposed 6A football districts:

District I
Lake Forest
Crystal Lake Central
Grayslake North
Crystal Lake South
Prairie Ridge
Vernon Hills
Lakes
Grayslake Central

District II
St. Ignatius
St. Patrick
Carmel
Fenwick
Marmion
Providence
Montini
Joliet Catholic

District III
Riverside - Brookfield
Fenton
Kaneland
Sycamore
Glenbard South
Elmwood Park
Ridgewood
Phillips

District IV
Lincoln-Way Central
Romeoville
Lincoln-Way West
Oak Lawn
Reavis
Shepard
Richards
Lemont

District V
Thornton Fractional South
Blue Island Eisenhower
Thornton
Thornwood
Crete - Monee
Thornton Fractional North
Bremen
Hillcrest

District VI
Washington
Ottawa
Dunlap
Peoria Notre Dame
Galesburg
Peoria Richwoods
LaSalle - Peru
Bartonville Limestone

District VII
Danville
Champaign Centennial
Champaign Central
Urbana
Decatur MacArthur
Decatur Eisenhower
Normal University
Mahomet - Seymour

District VIII
Quincy
Springfield
Chatham Glenwood
Springfield Southeast
Springfield Lanphier
Sacred Heart - Griffen
Jacksonville
Rochester

 

[Alexander32]

The geographical elements of the basketball sectionals seem to be generally accepted by all involved parties. Therefore, with a few modifications the football districts can be a derivative of the basketball sectionals. For example, the 8A football districts can be the eight largest schools in each of the 4A basketball sections. The second set of eight schools, by enrollment, would comprise a 7A district. The first modification would be to look (every two years) at the respective winning percentages of the district schools over the previous five years. The school with the lowest winning percentage would be dropped one class, and would be replaced by the school with the highest winning percentage in the next lower class. The second modification is that basketball sub-sectionals would largely be kept intact in order to minimize travel. The sub-sectionals with larger median enrollments would be assigned to 8A and those with lower median enrollments would be assigned to 7A. So, as an example, the St. Louis area schools might be assigned to 8A while the Rockford area schools might be assigned to 7A. I would need to go back and check the basketball sub-sectionals to confirm that.

Proposed 5A football districts:

District I
Belvidere
Freeport
Sterling
Rochelle
Geneseo
Dixon
Rock Island Alleman
Rock Falls

District II
Wauconda
Antioch
Burlington Central
Woodstock
Woodstock North
North Chicago
Harvard
Marengo

District III
Lane Tech
Curie
Whitney Young
Taft
Von Steuben
Lincoln Park
Hubbard
Kenwood

District IV
Oak Forest
Kankakee
Thornridge
Tinley Park
Rich Central
Rich South
Rich East
Evergreen Park

District V
East Peoria
Metamora
Morton
Canton
Stanford Olympia / Delavan
Peoria Heights / Quest Charter Academy
Illinois Valley Central
Peoria Manual

District VI
Streator
Morris
Rantoul
Plano
Sandwich
Manteno
Coal City
Pontiac

District VII
Troy Triad
Mascoutah
Highland
Cahokia
Jersey
Bethalto Civic Memorial
Columbia
Belleville Althoff

District VIII
Mt. Vernon
Marion
Carbondale
Centralia
Waterloo
Herrin
Murphysboro / Elverado
Salem