It is quite possible no one has those documents. They will have to be dug up. Those events from the 1920s were most likely recorded on papyrus.
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We're 17th! (and you're not)
- Thread starter crusader_of_90
- Start date
55 wins should not count.. agree or disagree[/QUOTE]
Oh, so you’re actually trying to make an apples to apples comparison..........
Oh, so you’re actually trying to make an apples to apples comparison..........[/QUOTE]
I attempted to lol
Actually, Mt Carmel had an annual year book that listed all the records for all the years the school played football. It ended about ten years ago when the author died. I had two editions from around 20 years ago, but they got lost in a recent move.
Note to Dirty - those 55 wins came against really top-notch competition, so we'll count them.
the competition MC played isn’t an issue. Adding 4 more games to your season when others can’t is creating a lopsided comparison.
20 years you got. That should be at least 120 victories.
Don't forget, our extra games were vs top notch opponents.
No one is forgetting. I don’t think that it will ever click for you.
55 wins should not count.. agree or disagree[/QUOTE]
Most years in the history of the CCL there were no playoffs to get to the Prep Bowl. It was the CCL champ vs. the CPS champ. There were a few years where there was a single CCL playoff game when there were two divisions north/south. Those games were few in number. The season where there 3-4 playoff games came after the CCL was asked to join the IHSA playoff system. The CCL agreed if they could still play the Prep Bowl. Though the attendance had dropped the games in the early 70's were still drawing in excess of 50k. Since MC was winning state titles after the move to the IHSA playoffs, they didn’t play in many playoff games after 1980. So I think 50 or 55 wins is way too high.
http://prepbowl.tripod.com/id3.html
While it pains me to no end to admit I on very rare occasions agree with you, I have to disagree with you on the National Championship designation.
Does anyone on this board believe for a New York Second that if MC had won the National Championship next year it would not be the very first line in their promotional material ""Mount Carmel the last Chicago Team to win a National Championship"" like one second after they won it?
Most years in the history of the CCL there were no playoffs to get to the Prep Bowl. It was the CCL champ vs. the CPS champ. There were a few years where there was a single CCL playoff game when there were two divisions north/south. Those games were few in number. The season where there 3-4 playoff games came after the CCL was asked to join the IHSA playoff system. The CCL agreed if they could still play the Prep Bowl. Though the attendance had dropped the games in the early 70's were still drawing in excess of 50k. Since MC was winning state titles after the move to the IHSA playoffs, they didn’t play in many playoff games after 1980. So I think 50 or 55 wins is way too high.
http://prepbowl.tripod.com/id3.html[/QUOTE]
So you agree the win total should be changed
So you agree the win total should be changed[/QUOTE]
No. I disagree the number is probably less than 20.
So adding in another 20-30 games from 1970 to the present would seem reasonable? So let's say any wins in Prep Bowl setting do not count based on the fact ESL and anyone else outside the CCL or CPL couldn't participate. Fair?
Anyone who knows anything about Illinois HS football knows the history of the CPL and the powerhouse programs they were back in the day. No one is discounting the competition, just the limitation of everyone outside these 2 conferences to participate.
This is like discounting players from the Negro League in baseball because they didn't play in MLB. It doesn't matter what the competition looked like, everyone outside the CCL and CPL were locked out from playing.
This seems relatively pedestrian. Have you fallen, and can't get up?
No one can see only one side of an issue quite like MC63. It breeds a very strange myopic point-of-view.
OK, you guys will argue about the weirdest Chit during the off-season.
Of course those games count for Mt. Carmel. They were played and mostly they were won.
There was nothing stopping you from forming a(n):
- ESL area Post season Tourney (or)
- Greater Illinois Post season Tourney
I know of at least one Joliet team that would have accepted an invite and probably would have whooped your ass.
Of course those games count for Mt. Carmel. They were played and mostly they were won.
There was nothing stopping you from forming a(n):
- ESL area Post season Tourney (or)
- Greater Illinois Post season Tourney
I know of at least one Joliet team that would have accepted an invite and probably would have whooped your ass.
But there was something stopping them from forming postseason tournaments so this argument doesn’t work.
I’m only suggesting if they want to compare victory totals against ESL those games shouldn’t count. I’m not suggesting they be taken away. This a very controlled situation and ask.
I am pretty sure the IHSA prohibited such a thing,
Do you realize I was kidding? Do you know what papyrus was and when it was used? Look that information up, educate yourself and hopefully you'll get the joke. You take yourself waaaay too seriously.
Not only would that happen, and it is ok with me. But, MC63 would be all over this board bragging about it and how great MC is. That's the kind of hypocrite the guy is.
I would appreciate your telling me when I was being hypocritical. Specifically, not one of those "You're always …" comments,
Point it out.
Perhaps you might consider that I don't back down to bullies.
Recently, I posed an idea about the scheduling of the 8 championship games. Some of these guys reacted as those I was proposing famine and pestilence. A couple, of course, were anti-MC guys, but they got things rolling.
Before the playoffs began, I'm not an authority, but I think that's incorrect. There was NO IHSA Tourney for football before 1974. That's how they were able to have the Prep Bowl, and by the time the IHSA started a Post Season Tourney in in 1974 the Prep Bowl was so well established that they just kind of made it an exception.
Even if none of that is true: What would you say about a basketball team that scheduled a 40 game season verses another team that scheduled a 30 game season? Ten of your wins didn't count because we only played 30 games compared to your 40 games (WTF?).
The debate started because MC63 was questioning the actual results of being 20 something wins behind ESL. He is assuming ESL started football 20 years before MC.
The argument is neither scenario is Apples to Apples so the results are the results.
Seriously? Is your memory that shot? Where the hell do you want me to start? I have evidence all over the place. If you honestly believe you have never been hypocritical, I really can't help you. Your myopic view of things just continues.
And your answer to stand up to bullies, is to become a bully yourself. And you most certainly are. These is just one example of your hypocritical actions.
Gotta read the whole thread to understand the POV here. No one is asking anyone to vacate wins, we are just showing that the argument that MC is somehow a better program based on win totals and years of play is a skewed way to look at things.
Would you mind if I made a slight, but important correction to your post? I hope so. When MC63 gets involved, it isn't a debate. It is an argument because the guy loves to throw bombs into conversations here. It is so habitual with him, he doesn't even recognize what he's doing anymore. Nor does he admit it, even though the proof is everywhere in the multiple threads he's involved in. Not to mention the ones that have been deleted after he became involved.
Crusader of 90 said that ESL was playing around the turn of the last century, They ususlaly played teams of adults because there weren't enough high school teams.
Again, you guys go off on a tangent with your brains somewhere else.
Very true. And someone here mentioned ESL's national ranking. Of course, since he doesn't like it, well then, the poll means nothing. The poll is flawed. The author of the article is flawed. Hell, even the people polled are flawed if it doesn't give him the result he wants.
Oh no. Your anger is causing your keyboard skills to suffer again. Slow down. Take deep breaths through your nose and give your mouth a break.
If anyone I know did, I'd tell them to shut up.[/QUOTE]
Then, unfortunately, you would have to start with yourself because you would be leading the charge.
We can all agree that Odirty is one of the cooler names on the site.
Demanding that you prove an accusation against me is bullying? Grow up.
This is hilarious. I am laughing out loud now.
You are a 74 year old man still arguing and screaming about your high school football team's number of all time wins. Just who really needs to grow up?
You argue like a teenager. Just who really needs to grow up?
You whine and cry whenever you are losing an argument, which is all the time. Just who really needs to grow up?
You accuse people of behavior you constantly display. Just who needs to grow up?
You always think you are being picked on. Just who needs to grow up?
You act like your opinion here is law. Just who really needs to grow up?
Something rotten happens to the Bears when you are watching and you throw a fastball with the Tribune into the wall. I can only imagine what you did when they lost the Super Bowl a number of years ago. Definitely childish.
The grudges you hold and the abject hatred you show others who disagree with you is childish. Just who really needs to grow up?
You are the most negative person on this board and the biggest crab ass by far. You are so far out on front of the rest us that we can't even see your dust anymore. Just who really needs to grow up?
And here we are once again. You are accusing someone of the bad behavior you constantly display.
Don't tell anyone here to grow up when you still haven't...at 74 frickin' years old.
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