We're 17th! (and you're not)

[pjjp]

MC seemed to play up/down to the level of teams they played during the regular season but they really turned on the gas (no brakes) during the playoffs. Taking nothing away from the other teams that played in the state finals, IMO, MC showed a more complete dominance of a very good offensive team in NAZ pretty much from start to finish that I didn't see with the other teams. (BTW in the same weather conditions) That said and being a Montini and CCL fan first and foremost, I stand by my original post of MC being tops in the state but can certainly understand all the arguments for other teams being at the top also.

Your analysis is on the money, IMO. MC and Rochester were the biggest surprises to me on championship weekend. MC did seem to gel at the right time. They had a number of less-than-impressive wins during the regular season, so the Naz result was pretty shocking to me. They completely dominated the Roadrunners.

IMO, the thing that separates MC and ESL from LWE is QB play. LWE did not have anywhere near the level of QB play that both MC and ESL brought to the table. I knew Lynch was good, but he's better than I realized. Love his toughness. And Macon is as good or better than anyone in the state. I would not have considered MC to be in the discussion for #1 team prior to seeing them against Naz. IMO, you can flip a coin between MC and ESL for top team. I'd have LWE at #3.

 

[Solid Snake Pliskin]

I'm glad we can have this discussion.

I agree that you can certainly make a reasonable on field argument for MC, even though I would have put LWE #1. If I put LWE at #1 I could also make an on field argument for MC or Warren at #2. If MC is #1 then LWE #2 and Warren #3.

After that H-F, ESL, Naz, Marist, Rice, Minooka, BB, Oswego, Huntley, and some other teams would be on the same tier

 

[Blue Ruin]

mchs-salami, a fashion plate who doesn't like the color brown, may have an unconscious anti-Carmel bias. Gene is also a Montini guy, but he spent a few years at Rita, which seems to have given him a more objective view of the football field.

 

[PowerI66]

They could have beaten anyone that night, even IMG and those California teams.

Uh, no. MC would get clocked by those teams.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Uh, no. MC would get clocked by those teams.

Not playing at NIU on that day.

 

[Solid Snake Pliskin]

Uh, no. MC would get clocked by those teams.

It seems some people don't grasp that how good a team looks often depends on who they're playing.

 

[Blue Ruin]

depends on who they're playing

Yes, and on more intangible factors, such as momentum, motivation, and the will to win. Carmel had it all that night, while JJ was a no-show. The weather had something to do with it, but MC harassed the guy into nonexistence.

 

[PowerI66]

Not playing at NIU on that day.

Ok, ok. 3 scores.

 

[PowerI66]

Yes, and on more intangible factors, such as momentum, motivation, and the will to win. Carmel had it all that night, harassing JJ into nonexistence.

Last I checked, the teams you said MC would beat are not Naz.

 

[Solid Snake Pliskin]

@Odirty I apologise. If they're saying they would beat IMG and top CA teams then they need to schedule them. You don't get to play Naz and use that to say you'd beat IMG.

 

[Blue Ruin]

If they're saying they would beat IMG

I said that. I said it in a burst of enthusiasm, expressing no more than my partisan opinion. I'm a fan and fans get carried away, but nothing's wrong with that. Why argue about something that can never be proven either way? He can scoff all he wants, but if Odirty wants a retraction or an abject apology, he'll be waiting a long time.

 

[Odirty]

My point has been simple. The top team in every football state steps out and plays a national schedule. Why dont MC but brag like world beaters. And imo... img etc would kill MC. One game dont make a team grea . And Ritter beat Naz pretty good. No props for beating this naz team

 

[caravan8]

My point has been simple. The top team in every football state steps out and plays a national schedule. Why dont MC but brag like world beaters. And imo... img etc would kill MC. One game dont make a team grea . And Ritter beat Naz pretty good. No props for beating this naz team

But Illinois is not a football state. Every team in the top 10 of that poll (and probably a few others) would route any team from Illinois. Places like Texas, Florida, California, Alabama, Georgia and others are just flat out better than Illinois football.

 

[Odirty]

So you believe Indian and Kentucky are more football states. they consistently have top teams. MC likes to bark from their porch I see

 

[caravan8]

So you believe Indian and Kentucky are more football state the consistently have top teams. MC likes to bark from their porch I see

I don’t believe anyone here mentioned Indiana or Kentucky so not sure where those 2 states came from. Any way you slice it MC is on of the top programs in Illinois. 2nd in all time wins (behind ESL) and 2nd in State Titles (behind JCA) and only program in the top 4 of both categories. You can hate the program as much as you want but you can’t argue with numbers.

 

[LHSTigers94]

I don’t believe anyone here mentioned Indiana or Kentucky so not sure where those 2 states came from. Any way you slice it MC is on of the top programs in Illinois. 2nd in all time wins (behind ESL) and 2nd in State Titles (behind JCA) and only program in the top 4 of both categories. You can hate the program as much as you want but you can’t argue with numbers.

Isn’t ESL top 4 in both? 1 and 4?

 

[caravan8]

Isn’t ESL top 4 in both? 1 and 4?

You are correct, my apologies. They are #1 in wins and #4 in Titles.

 

[Odirty]

My point was those states aren't football states but their top teams are consistently ranked. For the record I'm a mc fan I just want them to be nationally relevant.

 

[Wassup13]

100% delusional.

Beat a pretty marginal Montini team 27-20 on their home court. I'm pretty sure MC could beat the 49ers right now, but the 49ers are in 8A. Such a shame.

49ers team with or without Kaepernick?

 

[Wassup13]

Didn't MC only beat Marmian by less than a touchdown??

I don't think Marmian has any more Glasgow's.

 

[mchsalumni]

mchs-salami, a fashion plate who doesn't like the color brown, may have an unconscious anti-Carmel bias. Gene is also a Montini guy, but he spent a few years at Rita, which seems to have given him a more objective view of the football field.

No bias at all, though I am more partial to SR than MC.

I think if you are calling yourself objective based on a body of work, ESL and LWE has more impressive runs this year. The 8A game shouldn’t be the arbiter for MC being better than LWE. That’s just insanity.

 

[mchsalumni]

MC harassed the guy into nonexistence.

Now this is 100% accurate.

 

[mchsalumni]

Didn't MC only beat Marmian by less than a touchdown??

I don't think Marmian has any more Glasgow's.

Signature win for MC this year.

 

[Wassup13]

Naz should have done better than Marmian vs MC but their game plan was aweful (should have run the ball north and south many times with #28 to soften up the middle and then use 5 and 24 later to break the big north and south running plays which would later open up passing lanes for JJ. I would have also used some wildcat for 24 and 8 to make sure your playmakers are at least getting touches in the game) and their discipline is very questionable (o line penalties, QB runs 20 yards backwards instead of running forward for a few yards and sliding or not throwing the ball away).

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

Didn't MC only beat Marmian by less than a touchdown??

Yeah I think Mt Carmel is a least tied for #1 in Illinois, but I'll be damned if I can explain that one, even with the crappy weather and players sitting out.

JCA vs Marmion 49-7
Mascoutah vs JCA 21-14
Rochester vs Mascoutah 56-34
(Rochester vs St Rita 42-28)

Unless Rochester really is one of the best 2019 teams.

 

[Wassup13]

Yeah I think Mt Carmel is a least tied for #1 in Illinois, but I'll be damned if I can explain that one, even with the crappy weather and players sitting out.

JCA vs Marmion 49-7
Mascoutah vs JCA 21-14
Rochester vs Mascoutah 56-34
(Rochester vs St Rita 42-28)

Unless Rochester really is one of the best 2019 teams.

I sure like Derek Leonard!

 

[MC63]

[QUOTE Any way you slice it MC is on of the top programs in Illinois. 2nd in all time wins (behind ESL) and 2nd in State Titles (behind JCA) and only program in the top 4 of both categories. You can hate the program as much as you want but you can’t argue with numbers.[/QUOTE]

Caravan8 - the facts you posted need to be analyzed. First, while ESL has about 20 more total victories than us, they've been playing football (according to one of their posters) for twenty years longer than us. They should have a hundred more victories. Secondly, our accomplishments were made in the very top conference in the state. No conference in Illinois comes close to the Chicago Catholic League over the past century. Regarding JCA, and I've said this many, many times, their 14 championships need to be held up to the light. Since the IHSA went to eight classes in 2001, JCA has won five state championships -- four of them in 5A. They -played 7A competition in September and October and then they're allowed to slide down two notches in November. They're not alone. Providence and Montini did the same. I mean no disrespect to those players or coaches -- but the administrators should be embarrassed. BTW, what's really hard to fathom is that these schools didn't win all the 5A titles over those years.

Now, the posters from the other schools will respond with their usual nonsense.

 

[mchsalumni]

Caravan8 - the facts you posted need to be analyzed. First, while ESL has about 20 more total victories than us, they've been playing football (according to one of their posters) for twenty years longer than us. They should have a hundred more victories. Secondly, our accomplishments were made in the very top conference in the state. No conference in Illinois comes close to the Chicago Catholic League over the past century. Regarding JCA, and I've said this many, many times, their 14 championships need to be held up to the light. Since the IHSA went to eight classes in 2001, JCA has won five state championships -- four of them in 5A. They -played 7A competition in September and October and then they're allowed to slide down two notches in November. They're not alone. Providence and Montini did the same. I mean no disrespect to those players or coaches -- but the administrators should be embarrassed. BTW, what's really hard to fathom is that these schools didn't win all the 5A titles over those years.

Now, the posters from the other schools will respond with their usual nonsense.

tl;dr

 

[Blue Ruin]

I think we're in a feedback loop. We'll be debating this until we are in the grave or until next August, whichever comes first.

 

[LHSTigers94]

[QUOTE Any way you slice it MC is on of the top programs in Illinois. 2nd in all time wins (behind ESL) and 2nd in State Titles (behind JCA) and only program in the top 4 of both categories. You can hate the program as much as you want but you can’t argue with numbers.

Caravan8 - the facts you posted need to be analyzed. First, while ESL has about 20 more total victories than us, they've been playing football (according to one of their posters) for twenty years longer than us. They should have a hundred more victories. Secondly, our accomplishments were made in the very top conference in the state. No conference in Illinois comes close to the Chicago Catholic League over the past century. Regarding JCA, and I've said this many, many times, their 14 championships need to be held up to the light. Since the IHSA went to eight classes in 2001, JCA has won five state championships -- four of them in 5A. They -played 7A competition in September and October and then they're allowed to slide down two notches in November. They're not alone. Providence and Montini did the same. I mean no disrespect to those players or coaches -- but the administrators should be embarrassed. BTW, what's really hard to fathom is that these schools didn't win all the 5A titles over those years.

Now, the posters from the other schools will respond with their usual nonsense.[/QUOTE]

If every conference had the ability to put their top four on one side, the results would be the same. The fact that Montini joined and had success eliminated the CCL as being the top conference in the state. No way 5A Montini should have been a game away from winning the conference in their second or third year. If it was hands down the best, new teams that join should struggle to win a game.

 

[crusader_of_90]

How many games have the Flyers dropped by forfeit due to strikes and whatnot?

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

How many games have the Flyers dropped by forfeit due to strikes and whatnot?

You might want to delete your post. Do you really want to talk about forfeits?

 

[Solid Snake Pliskin]

@LHSTigers94 makes a point. Not the Montini one, I disagree with that they're a fine program. But how many conferences give you 4 tough games and three guaranteed wins, depends on how you schedule non-conference it could be 5 guaranteed wins every year. Plus a boatload of those wins were pre multiplier so they were down in playoff class. Then on top of all that the prep bowl playoffs which are against teams MC should beat.

Also while I am sympathetic to the "playing down" argument, JCA plays where the IHSA puts them. The same as MC. And they use the same process to classify them both, so unless MC plays up you can't use that to look down on JCA.

The good news is I have the solution. MC, JCA, ESL, Naz, PR etc (and MS/GBW since this would push you down) request up to 8A. Trade in that nice cushy 1st or 2nd round game in your current class for 5-4/6-3 Rice, Marist, BB, Stevenson. Then this discussion goes away.

 

[LHSTigers94]

@LHSTigers94 makes a point. Not the Montini one, I disagree with that they're a fine program. But how many conferences give you 4 tough games and three guaranteed wins, depends on how you schedule non-conference it could be 5 guaranteed wins every year. Plus a boatload of those wins were pre multiplier so they were down in playoff class. Then on top of all that the prep bowl playoffs which are against teams MC should beat.

Also while I am sympathetic to the "playing down" argument, JCA plays where the IHSA puts them. The same as MC. And they use the same process to classify them both, so unless MC plays up you can't use that to look down on JCA.

The good news is I have the solution. MC, JCA, ESL, Naz, PR etc (and MS/GBW since this would push you down) request up to 8A. Trade in that nice cushy 1st or 2nd round game in your current class for 5-4/6-3 Rice, Marist, BB, Stevenson. Then this discussion goes away.

no knock on Montini at all! The issue is they were 5A beating teams in a conference that was mostly 7A and 8A contenders. The conference just happened to be hands down the best in the state! Montini gets the respect! Not the conference.

 

[Odirty]

Since mc is so great why they dont play 8a every year? Why count prep bowl wins? Why play non conference cupcakes? Like I said loud barks from the safety of their porch

 

[mchsalumni]

You might want to delete your post. Do you really want to talk about forfeits?

What’s wrong with the question? Have they missed games due to strikes?

How many Prep Bowl games did MC play in from 1920-1970? These are factors in a win total.

 

[MC63]

You might want to delete your post. Do you really want to talk about forfeits?

He's really a Provi guy

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

What’s wrong with the question? Have they missed games due to strikes?

How many Prep Bowl games did MC play in from 1920-1970? These are factors in a win total.

How many games have the Flyers dropped by forfeit due to strikes and whatnot?

..........

 

[MC63]

[QUOTE="mchsalumni, post: 234868, member: 808"

How many Prep Bowl games did MC play in from 1920-1970? These are factors in a win total.[/QUOTE]

I no longer have the documents with all that information, and, even if I did, I wouldn't do all that counting for you.

Overall, we won about ten of them, and lost 3 or 4. You can guess that there were three games for each of those, plus, add in a few where we didn't get to the finals. I'd say, overall, we won 50 to 55 very difficult games, and lost maybe 5 or 6. . Understand that Public League back then was dynamite.

Don't anyone make the mistake that these are what today are know as Prep Bowl games.

 

[Odirty]

[QUOTE="mchsalumni, post: 234868, member: 808"

How many Prep Bowl games did MC play in from 1920-1970? These are factors in a win total.

I no longer have the documents with all that information, and, even if I did, I wouldn't do all that counting for you.

Overall, we won about ten of them, and lost 3 or 4. You can guess that there were three games for each of those, plus, add in a few where we didn't get to the finals. I'd say, overall, we won 50 to 55 very difficult games, and lost maybe 5 or 6. . Understand that Public League back then was dynamite.

Don't anyone make the mistake that these are what today are know as Prep Bowl games.[/QUOTE]
55 wins should not count.. agree or disagree