Proposal to replace multiplier

[ramblinman]

And, yes, one is free one has a cost. But is it REALLY 15K?

Great question. The actual cost is always more than tuition. So, if the average tuition is $15K, then the average actual cost is $1500-$2500 more than that. Loyola's tuition is $19,250. St Ignatius is $20,900. Latin is $43,020.

I can speak for Loyola and say that a substantial majority of Ramblers pay full tuition. I highly doubt that LA's stud QB, Ryan Fitzgerald, winner of this year's CCL Blue Offensive Player of the Year, is getting any financial aid despite the fact that his dad is out of a job. Roughly 32% receive financial aid and the average aid amount provided is $9,200. With 640 kids getting financial aid at Loyola, there can't be many/any kids getting $10K more than the average in order for that average to be what it is.

Don't know about other private schools, but at Loyola, the entire financial aid process is blind. That is to say that the evaluation of applications and the awarding of aid is done by an outside party that looks at how much Loyola has to give in total financial aid, and divides that aid up according to financial need, not by athletic prowess as I know you probably are convinced is what really happens.

And, the ability to pull from 700K and 15k is massive.

Perhaps if Carmel were offering free tuition, you just might have a point. If that ability is so massive, how come Carmel's enrollment has shrunk by 20% in the past 20 years? I know you probably think that kids are lining up outside Carmel's doors to get in (they aren't) and that Carmel can "get" any kid they want from their 30 mile radius (they don't).

With needs based scholarships openly advertised, it's pretty easy to see why many in Lake County would send their better athletes there rather than play for some of the less fortunate schools in the area.

Then explain why Carmel's enrollment isn't stable or on the rise and not down 20% from where it was when they won the state 6A title in 2002.

Having a current student, I know that thought ran through pretty much every top notch player in the area. Some make the jump, some don't. But why play for Round Lake, Waukegan, North Chicago, Zion (or many others in the area) if you can get enough tuition coverage to attend Carmel.

1. Because their public schools are much closer, and those kids refuse to wake up half an hour earlier to commute to Carmel regardless of what kind of financial aid package they can score.
2. Because they don't want to go to a faith-based school.
3. Because, even with financial aid, they STILL can't afford the tuition.
4. Because, with or without financial aid, their families might be able to afford the discounted or full tuition, but they just don't want to pay it because, in their world, if education ain't free, they don't want it.
5. Because they can't do without their:

do-rags​

short shorts​

crop tops​

jeans​

hoodies​

tats​

multiple piercings all over their face​

facial hair, spiked hair, green hair, long hair on guys​

and because the below pic is the Carmel dress code:

 

[HotBeer]

I guess that's the REAL difference in how public vs private viewpoints really is. If the base case is NOT multiplied, it assumes both entities are on equal footing as to their ability to procure talent. I personally think that is NOT the majority opinion in Illinois, and I know it's not how ANY public school would see the situation.

The multiplier applies to non-boundaried schools. About 40% of those are public. In it's existing format the multiplier is not a public vs private mechanic.

The multiplier "assumes" nothing. I don't think anyone would agree that a school of exclusively deaf students has an advantage, but if their basketball team makes two playoff runs, they will get multiplied. I likewise don't think anyone would claim that a school like northside, where you have to be a literal genius to get in, has an advantage, but the multiplier works the same way. I also don't know how a school that costs $15k but is within 10 miles of FIVE free public schools that have won a state basketball championship in the last 10 years has an advantage (MC), but it works the same way.

It is not meant to create equivalency in talent coming in to the school, it is an obtuse penalty to the success of non-boundaried schools. I don't have an issue with it in it's current format, but you are portraying it's purpose and application inaccurately.

And, yes, one is free one has a cost. But is it REALLY 15K?

You can look it up on the school's website. That number is before fees, books, etc.

And, the ability to pull from 700K and 15k is massive. You can have all your funny bulldozer/oprah comments if you want, but to say they can't find significantly more talent in many schools even with the tuition factor is a bit naive. With needs based scholarships openly advertised, it's pretty easy to see why many in Lake County would send their better athletes there rather than play for some of the less fortunate schools in the area. Having a current student, I know that thought ran through pretty much every top notch player in the area. Some make the jump, some don't. But why play for Round Lake, Waukegan, North Chicago, Zion (or many others in the area) if you can get enough tuition coverage to attend Carmel. Everyone knows your chances of playing college ball coming out of one of those schools is severely hampered.

If Carmel was the only private school in that 30 mile radius I would agree with you, but half the damn CCL is in that radius! Loyola, ND, Depaul, St. Pat, ICCP, Fenwick, Viator, even St. Francis is in that radius!!

Not to mention some of the best public schools in the entire state (for academics and/or football) fall into that radius. New Trier, Lake Forest, Stevenson, Deerfield, Highland Park, Maine South. Those families are not sending their kids to Carmel in droves. And no one is driving from Norwood Park or Wheaton or Woodstock or Evanston to attend Carmel.

But if you honestly believe that there is no difference in the ability to get talent with no boundary and tuition assistance, then you probably won't agree with a single point above. And that's why you will forever see the topic circle back. Outside of the non-boundary schools, nobody will agree with that.

There is a DIFFERENCE in how Carmel gets talent, but I do not think there is a distinct advantage. If there was an advantage like you are describing, than Carmel would win championships. But Carmel does not win championships.

Cary-Grove, Wheaton North, Prairie Ridge, Maine South, Glenbard West, Glenbard North, Lake Zurich, Vernon Hills, Libertyville, and Prospect are all schools within Carmel's radius that have gone to the state title game more recently than Carmel has. What gives??

 

[corey90]

Glad to hear it. Can't wait to see it.



God bless you for doing that. Hope the juice is worth the squeeze.



Fair point. Perhaps it's because most of what you write finds a way to stick it to the private schools for winning more than their "fair share" of titles.

Tell me, where are the private schools' "fair share" of bowling titles? Do you know that, since 1972-73, ZERO private schools have been either champs or runners up in girls bowling? Same for the boys, but their records only go back to 2002-03. OMG, right? Where's the equity? Where's the uproar? Where's the FAIR SHARE? Using your logic, there must be some sort of inherent advantage in how public schools compile their student bodies that causes them to win all the bowling titles and the private schools win none. Despite that travesty of justice, you don't see private schools whining for a level bowling alley. They just suck it up and try to get better.

Where is it written that private schools and public schools must win roughly the same percentage of titles as the percentage of their IHSA membership? Don't bother looking. I'll tell you where. You can find it right next to the rule that states that urban schools and suburban schools and rural schools must win roughly the same percentage of titles as the percentage of their membership.



Wonderful. Thank you. Seriously. I'm the first to admit that I'm more of a concept guy and not a math guy or a data analysis guy.



Uh oh. Anything other than an objective way that treats all schools the same means I'm probably not going to like it.



Hope you don't burn more neurons than you grow. While you're at it, see what you can do about the public/private bowling inequity, will ya?



So true.

Ramblinman
I think you should go easy on Alexander32. At least he is trying to come up with a solution that will be fair to both Public and Private. Let’s see the finished product before going off on him. It’s a concept, I doubt it would ever come to fruition but I think it’s cool he is trying.

 

[iamgroot]

30 Mile radius from Elgin. How do any public schools get football players since St. Edward recruits them all?

This idea that just because a school is non-boundary that they can get anyone they want is just so crazy. Look at McNamara. They were a traditional football powerhouse with decent showings most years and in the blink of an eye aren't even mentioned as a has been. Kankakee and Bradley-Bourbonnais demographics haven't changed much in the past 5 years, yet those schools have decent football programs while McNamara struggles. So what changed? All the non-boundary super powers seem to be failing Mac.

 

[ramblinman]

Ramblinman
I think you should go easy on Alexander32. At least he is trying to come up with a solution that will be fair to both Public and Private. Let’s see the finished product before going off on him. It’s a concept, I doubt it would ever come to fruition but I think it’s cool he is trying.

He is not trying to be fair to both sides. Do a search on him in this board. Just type in the keyword of "private" and search only for his posts. He is constantly riding private schools because they win more than their "fair share" of titles. His first stab at his concept treats private schools and public schools differently and favors public schools.

I agree that it's cool that he is trying, and I like that he is trying to fix things with a tweezers and not a hammer.

 

[ramblinman]

30 Mile radius from Elgin. How do any public schools get football players since St. Edward recruits them all?

Thank God they don't have any eligible student athletes from Wisconsin!

 

[corey90]

He is not trying to be fair to both sides. Do a search on him in this board. Just type in the keyword of "private" and search only for his posts. He is constantly riding private schools because they win more than their "fair share" of titles. His first stab at his concept treats private schools and public schools differently and favors public schools.

I agree that it's cool that he is trying, and I like that he is trying to fix things with a tweezers and not a hammer.

I agree and I did call him out about some public schools needing to be classified differently for the exact same reasons some privates need to be classified differently. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want to reclassify any school to hurt them. I believe the road to the title game should be difficult and to win a state championship public or private. it should be competitive not a blowout.

 

[Alexander32]

So what if they operate under the same parameters? So do Maine East and Maine South. When you can prove that the ability to draw students from within a 30 mile radius is directly related to sustained extraordinary success, then perhaps I would be more open to your proposals.

Why is it okay for a public school like Rochester to win 8 titles in the last 10 years, but when Carmel wins a single second round playoff game, their first in many years, the public school apologists come out of the woodwork and start foaming at the mouth?

I think what he is trying to say is that Leo, Marian and De LaSalle just need to work harder and JUST GET BETTER!

 

[HotBeer]

I think what he is trying to say is that Leo, Marian and De LaSalle just need to work harder and JUST GET BETTER!

I agree, at least I certainly hope they do! They should do that right now, they don't need a special, drastically redesigned system to do so.

But if one is going to suggest a system with certain incentives, and play out how those incentives would work, don't suggest that the members of the system act in their WORST interests.

 

[Alexander32]

I honestly would have no problem applying the same success factor to both public and private schools. However, I'm trying to be realistic. There currently is no success factor whatsoever being applied to boundaried public schools. I think the operative phrase is "don't let the perfect get in the way of the good". Recommending a scaled down version of a success factor to be applied to public schools might have a very small chance of being approved by the IHSA members. Recommending the same success factor for public schools that would be used for private schools has no chance of being approved. At least I'm advocating movement in the right direction because right now there is no success factor for boundaried public schools.

If one actually read my past posts they would know that has been my position for a long time. I am not overly concerned about why some schools enjoy more football success than others, I am merely realistic in recognizing that circumstance exists. Given that it exists, whether it be at a public or private school, I believe the athletes would benefit by the challenge of playing excellent competition. I have, in past posts, made the comparison to advanced placement studies. Talented students benefit from the challenge of taking difficult courses. That is my justification for a success factor, and that has been my position for a long time.

 

[stonedlizard]

Given that it exists, whether it be at a public or private school, I believe the athletes would benefit by the challenge of playing excellent competition. I have, in past posts, made the comparison to advanced placement studies. Talented students benefit from the challenge of taking difficult courses.

The objectives are:
1) Provide a reasonable opportunity for all IHSA members to participate in the playoffs (though by no means all in the same year).
2) Create a process that is transparent and relatively simple to understand and administer.
3) Of least importance, promote some semblance of competitive balance within each class.

whatta bout dis dough?

 

[ScottieKnows]

So what if they operate under the same parameters? So do Maine East and Maine South. When you can prove that the ability to draw students from within a 30 mile radius is directly related to sustained extraordinary success, then perhaps I would be more open to your proposals.

Why is it okay for a public school like Rochester to win 8 titles in the last 10 years, but when Carmel wins a single second round playoff game, their first in many years, the public school apologists come out of the woodwork and start foaming at the mouth?

Well it's not about a single round game from a single team, obviously. All of this discussion isn't about a single round. It's over many years. And you've made my point for me. Public schools like Maine East and Maine South (although maybe Maine South isn't the best example here) are under the same parameters.....just like St. Eds and Mt. Carmel would be in a separation.

 

[cornerrat]

Great question. The actual cost is always more than tuition. So, if the average tuition is $15K, then the average actual cost is $1500-$2500 more than that. Loyola's tuition is $19,250. St Ignatius is $20,900. Latin is $43,020.

I can speak for Loyola and say that a substantial majority of Ramblers pay full tuition. I highly doubt that LA's stud QB, Ryan Fitzgerald, winner of this year's CCL Blue Offensive Player of the Year, is getting any financial aid despite the fact that his dad is out of a job. Roughly 32% receive financial aid and the average aid amount provided is $9,200. With 640 kids getting financial aid at Loyola, there can't be many/any kids getting $10K more than the average in order for that average to be what it is.

Don't know about other private schools, but at Loyola, the entire financial aid process is blind. That is to say that the evaluation of applications and the awarding of aid is done by an outside party that looks at how much Loyola has to give in total financial aid, and divides that aid up according to financial need, not by athletic prowess as I know you probably are convinced is what really happens.



Perhaps if Carmel were offering free tuition, you just might have a point. If that ability is so massive, how come Carmel's enrollment has shrunk by 20% in the past 20 years? I know you probably think that kids are lining up outside Carmel's doors to get in (they aren't) and that Carmel can "get" any kid they want from their 30 mile radius (they don't).



Then explain why Carmel's enrollment isn't stable or on the rise and not down 20% from where it was when they won the state 6A title in 2002.



1. Because their public schools are much closer, and those kids refuse to wake up half an hour earlier to commute to Carmel regardless of what kind of financial aid package they can score.
2. Because they don't want to go to a faith-based school.
3. Because, even with financial aid, they STILL can't afford the tuition.
4. Because, with or without financial aid, their families might be able to afford the discounted or full tuition, but they just don't want to pay it because, in their world, if education ain't free, they don't want it.
5. Because they can't do without their:

do-rags​

short shorts​

crop tops​

jeans​

hoodies​

tats​

multiple piercings all over their face​

facial hair, spiked hair, green hair, long hair on guys​

and the below pic is the Carmel dress code:

All.... This is how SHG does it now. As referenced Ramblinman they used to do financial aid by an outside (out of state) firm. W2 and other financial paperwork was required. Then the company would come up with a number and submit it back to the administration. Currently the school is in it's second year of a three year tuition freeze. 14,408 is the estimated cost for one student.

SHG in my opinion is on the brink. Enrollment dropped to 499 last year and currently up a bit in 2023 to 527. The high mark many moons ago was about 850. Lots of Catholics in town with kids not sending them to grade and high school Catholic schools. And moving them into different school districts nearby. Really close many have Springfield addresses but are in a different school district. Ratsy

Sacred Heart-Griffin

Sacred Heart-Griffin is a Catholic Dominican High School in Springfield, Illinois that welcomes a diverse student population to pursue academic excellence in a community of faith.

www.shg.org

 

[ramblinman]

Currently the school is in it's second year of a three year tuition freeze. 14,408 is the estimated cost for one student.

Sorry, Ratsy, but I think tuition freezes are unsustainable and ill-advised desperate measures that only serve to kick the can down the road. If SHG operates like most private schools, there's a gap between full tuition and actual cost per student. Each additional student grows that cumulative gap. Without fundraising, private schools could not operate at anything other than tuition that covers the actual cost per student.

Who does the freeze benefit most? Families that can afford to pay full tuition are the ones getting the biggest break. If they could pay full tuition during the freeze, are they increasing their charitable gifts to the school to help cover the school's increasing costs to educate their kids each year? Maybe some are, but I would guess most aren't. That just serves to increase the dependence on fundraising to close the budget gap. SHG families that can't afford full tuition are getting financial aid, which I assume is not frozen and changes as the family's financial situation changes and as the amount SHG has available each year for financial aid changes.

I just don't understand the strategy behind tuition freezes. Any families attracted to the school because of them are influenced by getting a bargain. What will happen when the freeze expires, and SHG looks to charge increased tuition to cover their increased costs over the last two years and the next one? Does the kid transfer out? Do bargain hunting families make charitable gifts? Probably not. All they do is add one more student to the enrollment and grow the cumulative gap without making any of it up.

SHG in my opinion is on the brink.

On the brink of?

Enrollment dropped to 499 last year and currently up a bit in 2023 to 527.

That's a nice 6% year over year increase. But, again, what is driving it? A tuition freeze that isn't sustaninable?

The high mark many moons ago was about 850. Lots of Catholics in town with kids not sending them to grade and high school Catholic schools. And moving them into different school districts nearby. Really close many have Springfield addresses but are in a different school district. Ratsy

Wait, what??? You mean that SHG can't just "get" any kid it wants in its 30-mile radius? You mean they aren't lined up outside SHG's doors to get in? But that means that those public school apologists who claim otherwise are wrong. Can that be????

 

[ScottieKnows]

Sorry, Ratsy, but I think tuition freezes are unsustainable desperate measures that only serve to kick the can down the road. If SHG operates like most private schools, there's a gap between full tuition and actual cost per student. Each additional student grows that cumulative gap. Without fundraising, private schools could not operate at anything other than tuition that covers the actual cost per student.

Who does the freeze benefit most? Families that can afford to pay ful tuition. If they could pay full tuition during the freeze, are they increasing their charitable gifts to the school to help cover the school's increasing cost to educate their kids each year? Maybe some are, but I would guess most aren't. That just serves to increase the dependence on fundraising to close the budget gap. SHG families that can't afford full tuition are getting financial aid, which I assume is not frozen and changes as the family's financial situation changes.

I just don't understand the strategy behind tuition freezes. Any families attracted to the school because of them are influenced by getting a bargain. What will happen when the freeze expires, and SHG looks to charge increased tuition to cover their increased costs over the last two years and the next one? Does the kid transfer out? Do bargain hunting families make charitable gifts? Probably not. All they do is add one more student to the enrollment and grow the cumulative gap without making any of it up.



On the brink of?



That's a nice 6% year over year increase. But, again, what is driving it? A tuition freeze that isn't sustaninable?



Wait, what??? You mean that SHG can't just "get" any kid it wants in its 30-mile radius? You mean they aren't lined up outside SHG's doors to get in? But that means that those public school apologists who claim otherwise are wrong. Can that be????

There are athletes paying nothing to attend some of these private schools. Whoever doesn't know this, is clueless. Move on. Wasted discussion.

 

[ramblinman]

There are athletes paying nothing to attend some of these private schools. Whoever doesn't know this, is clueless. Move on. Wasted discussion

IF that is the case, and as long as those athletes are receiving need based financial aid from the school, there is nothing wrong with that.

Just like you are unable to prove that drawing from a 30-mile radius translates into an athletic advantage, neither can you prove that:

1. Your statement that there are athletes paying nothing to attend some of these private schools is anything more than a hunch.
2. Any of the handful of athletes that do receive a full financial aid ride are starters and having a meaningful impact on the program.
3. Private schools are giving away anything close to as many full financial aid rides to athletes as you think they are.

I know you well enough to know that your next response/whine is going to be, "But, donors!" Just like you think, erroneously, that kids are lined up outside private schools to get in and that private schools can "get" any kid they want in their 30-mile radii, you also think that donors are lined up to pay $15K-$20K tuition of athletes in private schools.

Wrong. More than wrong. Demented. Out of touch with reality.

You are right about one thing, though...

Move on.

 

[ScottieKnows]

IF that is the case, and as long as those athletes are receiving need based financial aid from the school, there is nothing wrong with that.

Just like you are unable to prove that drawing from a 30-mile radius translates into an athletic advantage, neither can you prove that:

1. Your statement that there are athletes paying nothing to attend some of these private schools is anything more than a hunch.
2. Any of the handful of athletes that do receive a full financial aid ride are starters and having a meaningful impact on the program.
3. Private schools are giving away anything close to as many full financial aid rides to athletes as you think they are.

I know you well enough to know that your next response/whine is going to be, "But, donors!" Just like you think, erroneously, that kids are lined up outside private schools to get in and that private schools can "get" any kid they want in their 30-mile radii, you also think that donors are lined up to pay $15K-$20K tuition of athletes in private schools.

Wrong. More than wrong. Demented. Out of touch with reality.

You are right about one thing, though...

There are some paying nothing and it's not based on financial need.

 

[cornerrat]

Sorry, Ratsy, but I think tuition freezes are unsustainable desperate measures that only serve to kick the can down the road. If SHG operates like most private schools, there's a gap between full tuition and actual cost per student. Each additional student grows that cumulative gap. Without fundraising, private schools could not operate at anything other than tuition that covers the actual cost per student.

Who does the freeze benefit most? Families that can afford to pay ful tuition. If they could pay full tuition during the freeze, are they increasing their charitable gifts to the school to help cover the school's increasing cost to educate their kids each year? Maybe some are, but I would guess most aren't. That just serves to increase the dependence on fundraising to close the budget gap. SHG families that can't afford full tuition are getting financial aid, which I assume is not frozen and changes as the family's financial situation changes.

I just don't understand the strategy behind tuition freezes. Any families attracted to the school because of them are influenced by getting a bargain. What will happen when the freeze expires, and SHG looks to charge increased tuition to cover their increased costs over the last two years and the next one? Does the kid transfer out? Do bargain hunting families make charitable gifts? Probably not. All they do is add one more student to the enrollment and grow the cumulative gap without making any of it up.



On the brink of?



That's a nice 6% year over year increase. But, again, what is driving it? A tuition freeze that isn't sustaninable?



Wait, what??? You mean that SHG can't just "get" any kid it wants in its 30-mile radius? You mean they aren't lined up outside SHG's doors to get in? But that means that those public school apologists who claim otherwise are wrong. Can that be????

All..... Full tuition is 9,650 and actual (estimated) cost 14,408. The gap you speak about. So increase in enrollment creates more the school has to make up. A conundrum. The Domincans who run the show are fairly flush in cash but that can only go so far if enrollment continues to drop severely. Thus my on the brink comment.

The next couple of years will be key. Small continued rises in enrollment are needed. The total revamp of tuition assistance and the freeze were a jump start in a new direction hoping in turning the tide. Ratsy

 

[ramblinman]

The Domincans who run the show are fairly flush in cash but that can only go so far if enrollment continues to drop severely.

Check out this link:
Congregations of Dominican sisters giving up sponsorship of their secondary schools

What's interesting to note in that article is that SHG's sponsoring congregation, the Springfield Dominicans, are involved in the Dominican Veritas Ministries initiative. One of their own (herself the former President of Marian Catholic and former Superintendent of Catholic Schools for the Archdiocese of Chicago) helped organize the effort. The head of fundraising for the Springfield Dominicans sits on the board of trustees of the new organization. For now, though, their sponsored schools of SHG and Marian Catholic have not been folded into it. They haven't given up ownership of those two schools.

Yet.

Sisters all across the country are downsizing and consolidating their congregations. They are divesting themselves of their more costly and labor-intensive ministries. The Springfield Dominicans will ditch SHG in due time. All the signs point to it.

There's a girls school in Chicago called Josephinum Academy that is sponsored by the Sacred Heart sisters. It was given to them to run a decade or so ago by the Sisters of Christian Charity who founded the school, but the SCC congregation retained ownership of the land. Now, the SCCs want to cash in and have put the property on the market, but their former school can't afford the $20MM+ plus price tag. Talk about a conundrum!

Times are a-changin'.

 

[ramblinman]

There are some paying nothing and it's not based on financial need

Can you prove it?

Also, define "some." How many do you think there are? Do you have first-hand knowledge of this, or is it nothing more than another one of your hunches? Or perhaps you know a guy who has a friend who has a nephew who paid nothing because of a completely unrelated donor who was so interested in his alma mater's athletic glory that he was willing to pay $60K over four years for the privilege?

 

[cornerrat]

Check out this link:
Congregations of Dominican sisters giving up sponsorship of their secondary schools

What's interesting to note in that article is that SHG's sponsoring congregation, the Springfield Dominicans, are involved in the Dominican Veritas Ministries initiative. One of their own (herself the former President of Marian Catholic and former Superintendent of Catholic Schools for the Archdiocese of Chicago) helped organize the effort. The head of fundraising for the Springfield Dominicans sits on the board of trustees of the new organization. For now, though, their sponsored schools of SHG and Marian Catholic have not been folded into it. They haven't given up ownership of those two schools.

Yet.

Sisters all across the country are downsizing and consolidating their congregations. They are divesting themselves of their more costly and labor-intensive ministries. The Springfield Dominicans will ditch SHG in due time. All the signs point to it.

There's a girls school in Chicago called Josephinum Academy that is sponsored by the Sacred Heart sisters. It was given to them to run a decade or so ago by the Sisters of Christian Charity, but the SCC sisters retained ownership of the land. Now, the SCCs want to cash in and have put the property on the market, but their former school can't afford the $20MM+ plus price tag. Talk about a conundrum!

Times are a-changin'.

All.... Yes I know of this article. The "gals" are holding strong in town which of course means little. A little inside baseball. The local "regional ruler" (lol) came for a visit to SHG a fairly short time go. He has made our local paper in the past on various stances. An old schooler from the Chicago area. Likes hockey. Anyway after a long meeting the good Sisters managed to make enough points in convincing him of having a Catholic H.S in Springfield to continue.


You have that right times are a-changin'. We see..... Ratsy

 

[ScottieKnows]

Prove it.

Ramblin. I'm not posting the names of the players or schools where this has happened and is currently happening and you sure can call me out on that. You can feel comfort that this isn't happening in these private schools, but even those coaching and working at private schools can tell you it's happening. There's always a way to get athletes at your school and not have them not pay a dime. Been involved in private education a loooong time, may have even been a part of the recruiting, donor.....thing myself. It's happening. Asking to prove it on a forum like this would create a fire storm that I wouldn't choose to bring on for a multitude of reasons. I think you understand this.

 

[ramblinman]

Ramblin. I'm not posting the names of the players or schools where this has happened and is currently happening and you sure can call me out on that. You can feel comfort that this isn't happening in these private schools, but even those coaching and working at private schools can tell you it's happening. There's always a way to get athletes at your school and not have them not pay a dime. Been involved in private education a loooong time, may have even been a part of the recruiting, donor.....thing myself. It's happening. Asking to prove it on a forum like this would create a fire storm that I wouldn't choose to bring on for a multitude of reasons. I think you understand this.

So how many is "some" and at how many private schools is this happening (although your answer will be taken with a grain of salt because of your reluctance to provide proof)? Surely you can name the private schools without ratting on names of the players. Of course, the reason you won't is because then folks will want to know who got the rides and you are content just asking us to trust you on this.

 

[rfb321]

And since we jumped to this topic, does anyone remember the details on the Simeon star player, a QB I think, that started out at MC and then had to leave because they didn’t have the money for tuition? It was maybe ten years ago and the news picked it up and interviewed the dad. Anyway, the kid was a star and according to the dad, they told to pay or leave. Just thought I’d throw this out there as an example

 

[ScottieKnows]

So how many is "some" and at how many private schools is this happening (although your answer will be taken with a grain of salt because of your reluctance to provide proof)? Surely you can name the private schools without ratting on names of the players. Of course, the reason you won't is because then folks will want to know who got the rides and you are content just asking us to trust you on this.

Ramblin. You don't have to believe me...you wouldn't anyway. "Some" is 2 that I know of. Not naming any schools. This thread has moved onto even deeper issues with some private schools and I'm not going that route. There's a ton of private school guys on this site. You can pose the issue and I'm sure you'd get info on what private schools have been shady the last few years. Time to hit traffic. I enjoy the banter.

 

[ramblinman]

You brought it up, and now you don't want to go that route? You want to lob accusations from a distance and not back them up.