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This is the part that I struggle with as well. I liked everything I heard from Johnson at his press conference, but as we know, that doesn't amount to much. However, he is a dynamic personality, who seems both very intelligent and tough. I'm encouraged by his toughness. He's not a meek and mild individual like say....Phil Emery, Mark Trestman, Ryan Pace, Matt Eberflus and Ryan Poles. When I look back over George McCaskey's tenure, he seems to favor the meek and mild types. This is football after all. Strong, tough personalities are required, IMO. I like Johnson's track record. He's climbed through the ranks and excelled at every level of coaching. Will he be a good head coach? Time will tell. I'm actually surprised he wanted the job so badly. It seems the allure of the city of Chicago may have played a part in that.

After he puts together a staff, his biggest challenge may be in dealing with what I consider the ineptitude of Ryan Poles. He's had three years in the job. Look at his draft picks. Look at his trades and FA signings. I don't see difference makers. Is he all of a sudden going to be become a shrewd judge of talent? Seems unlikely. What has he done to warrant a 4th year? George seems to like him, and I guess that may be the key point as to why he is still there.
George is a mild manner guy, it is human nature to surround yourself with people like you. Not saying that is how you should go about it.

To me it is the OL that he has really bungled, not shocking news. Just get some dudes, I do not care what position they play on OL...that will get figured out. I want some ass kicking guards. I know I will get a lot of push back but the OT(s) are fine. The IOL couldn't even block a 6th grade stunt. Caleb could never step up if he felt some pressure from the outside.
 
After he puts together a staff, his biggest challenge may be in dealing with what I consider the ineptitude of Ryan Poles. He's had three years in the job. Look at his draft picks. Look at his trades and FA signings. I don't see difference makers. Is he all of a sudden going to be become a shrewd judge of talent? Seems unlikely. What has he done to warrant a 4th year? George seems to like him, and I guess that may be the key point as to why he is still there.
With the Johnson hiring, removal of Poles would be bad "optics," if you catch my drift. Unless, however, the GM selection process would bake-in a certain and absolute attention to this.
 
With the Johnson hiring, removal of Poles would be bad "optics," if you catch my drift. Unless, however, the GM selection process would bake-in a certain and absolute attention to this.
I am hoping Johnson has a firm hand in who they draft or pick up in free agency. If not he isn’t the right guy. I am betting he is and Poles will listen to him. It’s in his best interest.
 
The Bears didn't draft Saquan Barkley either.
This one never made sense to me. The bears and several other teams could have had Barkley but chose not to go after him.

For 4m more a year than what we paid Swift, Barkley coulda been a Bear.
 
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This is the part that I struggle with as well. I liked everything I heard from Johnson at his press conference, but as we know, that doesn't amount to much. However, he is a dynamic personality, who seems both very intelligent and tough. I'm encouraged by his toughness. He's not a meek and mild individual like say....Phil Emery, Mark Trestman, Ryan Pace, Matt Eberflus and Ryan Poles. When I look back over George McCaskey's tenure, he seems to favor the meek and mild types. This is football after all. Strong, tough personalities are required, IMO. I like Johnson's track record. He's climbed through the ranks and excelled at every level of coaching. Will he be a good head coach? Time will tell. I'm actually surprised he wanted the job so badly. It seems the allure of the city of Chicago may have played a part in that.

After he puts together a staff, his biggest challenge may be in dealing with what I consider the ineptitude of Ryan Poles. He's had three years in the job. Look at his draft picks. Look at his trades and FA signings. I don't see difference makers. Is he all of a sudden going to be become a shrewd judge of talent? Seems unlikely. What has he done to warrant a 4th year? George seems to like him, and I guess that may be the key point as to why he is still there.
This is the most reasonable post I have read in a few weeks regarding this topic. Well said.
 
I get exactly what you're saying. You gotta stop plucking that one string guitar every time I refute something you say. Yes, they're giving him a lot of money compared to several veteran coaches in the league before ever coaching a game. My response is, so what? Why does it matter? They have the money so why does it matter if they give him $6 million or $13 million per year? You say you have no faith in the Bears organization, so wouldn't the perceived over paying for a first time head coach make sense to you?
Let me try to explain it this way. I would be OK with the Bears if they were paying McCarthy $13 million. But he is a proven commodity and Johnson isn't. There is a huge difference between a prospect and a proven commodity. No guarantees with a proven commodity. But, you know what you're getting in a proven coach ahead of time. And McCarthy isn't too old. I feel better with a proven commodity like McCarthy over a prospect even if it is a high prospect.

Did you pick the Chiefs to win yesterday? I did and I would bet you did too. I thought they would win, not because I am some genius. But it is simple.

I picked the Chiefs because, until someone beats Mahomes, he is the Champion. But I also picked them yesterday because they have proven they can win and Josh Allen and the Bills haven't. In other words, Mahomes and the Chiefs are a proven commodity and Allen isn't...yet anyway. It is quite simple when you think it about that way. Again, no guarantee. But if all things are equal I can't pick against the Chiefs and I think they will win the Super Bowl too. They just know how to get it done, even with all the WR injuries.

The same holds true for me with McCarthy over Johnson and the Bears certainly could have gotten McCarthy for $13M. Perhaps even less. But, time will tell.
 
Let me try to explain it this way. I would be OK with the Bears if they were paying McCarthy $13 million. But he is a proven commodity and Johnson isn't. There is a huge difference between a prospect and a proven commodity. No guarantees with a proven commodity. But, you know what you're getting in a proven coach ahead of time. And McCarthy isn't too old. I feel better with a proven commodity like McCarthy over a prospect even if it is a high prospect.

Did you pick the Chiefs to win yesterday? I did and I would bet you did too. I thought they would win, not because I am some genius. But it is simple.

I picked the Chiefs because, until someone beats Mahomes, he is the Champion. But I also picked them yesterday because they have proven they can win and Josh Allen and the Bills haven't. In other words, Mahomes and the Chiefs are a proven commodity and Allen isn't...yet anyway. It is quite simple when you think it about that way. Again, no guarantee. But if all things are equal I can't pick against the Chiefs and I think they will win the Super Bowl too. They just know how to get it done, even with all the WR injuries.

The same holds true for me with McCarthy over Johnson and the Bears certainly could have gotten McCarthy for $13M. Perhaps even less. But, time will tell.
Just because someone has been there, done that doesn't mean their worth more.

I had the over so I really didn't care who won as long as both teams kept scoring.

Any other team could have had McCarthy as well. It's not even a little concerning to someone like you, who is so skeptical of the Bears organization that they were the only team so high on McCarthy? He's still a candidate for the Saints job, the only HC position left open, but they haven't pulled the trigger on him.
 
Just because someone has been there, done that doesn't mean their worth more.
How intellectually lazy can you be to make a statement like this without doing any research? Why don't you go and check to see what the top salaried coaches are making and which ones have at least taken their teams to a Super Bowl and see that the majority of the top guys have won at least one. You just ignorantly throw this statement out there like no one is going to check it.

It is beyond obvious that good results get coaches paid a much higher salary than guys who haven't "been there and done that." This thing with Johnson is obviously an anomaly. That isn't an opinion. It's an undeniable fact. That is my central point and has been since they signed him.

If he wins a Super Bowl here then the Bears brass can be thought of as being ahead of the curve. If not, it will just be filed with all the other blunders this organization has made over the past 30+ years and counting.

Yeah, I don't trust this organization as far as I can throw Soldier Field.
 
Someone else was going to pay Johnson the reported $13M/year....just saying.
The league is moving towards younger HC(s), right or wrong. Half or more are younger than 45.
Macdonald gets $9M/year in SEA. I think the $13M/year reported isn't a stretch considering he was far and away the top coordinator on market.
 
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Someone else was going to pay Johnson the reported $13M/year....just saying.
The league is moving towards younger HC(s), right or wrong. Half or more are younger than 45.
Macdonald gets $9M/year in SEA. I think the $13M/year reported isn't a stretch considering he was far and away the top coordinator on market.
Especially with what college coaches are making these days
 
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Just because someone has been there, done that doesn't mean their worth more.

I had the over so I really didn't care who won as long as both teams kept scoring.

Any other team could have had McCarthy as well. It's not even a little concerning to someone like you, who is so skeptical of the Bears organization that they were the only team so high on McCarthy? He's still a candidate for the Saints job, the only HC position left open, but they haven't pulled the trigger on him.
True. Past success can help pad a coach's current value, but it isn't the driver. The driver of their value is their perceived potential for current and future success.

Nobody is more accomplished than Bill Belichick, but he had almost no value on the NFL market because no team saw enough reason to offer him a head job for $2 million, much less $15 million.

I would even project that Pete Carroll will be making less than Johnson because, while Carroll is obviously more accomplished, Johnson was the more sought after candidate, and thus can demand and expect more money. Carroll has a better pedigree, but I think most teams would have preferred Johnson simply because they project him out to be more successful in the near and long term going forward.

Whether Johnson will actually be successful or flame out spectacularly is anyone's guess, but there is no doubt that he had more "value" or upside to many NFL teams even compared to coaches with Super Bowls on their resume.
 
How intellectually lazy can you be to make a statement like this without doing any research? Why don't you go and check to see what the top salaried coaches are making and which ones have at least taken their teams to a Super Bowl and see that the majority of the top guys have won at least one. You just ignorantly throw this statement out there like no one is going to check it.

It is beyond obvious that good results get coaches paid a much higher salary than guys who haven't "been there and done that." This thing with Johnson is obviously an anomaly. That isn't an opinion. It's an undeniable fact. That is my central point and has been since they signed him.

If he wins a Super Bowl here then the Bears brass can be thought of as being ahead of the curve. If not, it will just be filed with all the other blunders this organization has made over the past 30+ years and counting.

Yeah, I don't trust this organization as far as I can throw Soldier Field.
Literally no one, either here or in the media is questioning what the Bears are paying Johnson, other than you. Seems like you are the only one taking issue with this. Time to move on.
 
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True. Past success can help pad a coach's current value, but it isn't the driver. The driver of their value is their perceived potential for current and future success.

Nobody is more accomplished than Bill Belichick, but he had almost no value on the NFL market because no team saw enough reason to offer him a head job for $2 million, much less $15 million.

I would even project that Pete Carroll will be making less than Johnson because, while Carroll is obviously more accomplished, Johnson was the more sought after candidate, and thus can demand and expect more money. Carroll has a better pedigree, but I think most teams would have preferred Johnson simply because they project him out to be more successful in the near and long term going forward.

Whether Johnson will actually be successful or flame out spectacularly is anyone's guess, but there is no doubt that he had more "value" or upside to many NFL teams even compared to coaches with Super Bowls on their resume.
This is your opinion. It isn't based in fact. You mention Carroll and Belichick. Both men are in their 70s and I guarantee that plays a part in any decision to hire or not hire.
 
Literally no one, either here or in the media is questioning what the Bears are paying Johnson, other than you. Seems like you are the only one taking issue with this. Time to move on.
You need to move on. It's obvious you don't watch, listen to or read media pieces. Because I have seen, heard and read media pieces discussing this very thing. On 670 they discussed the fact Johnson will make more than the head coach of the franchise he left. You are the one who constantly says don't listen to the media. Now you mention the media when you want to make a point. You can't have it both ways.
 
Someone else was going to pay Johnson the reported $13M/year....just saying.
The league is moving towards younger HC(s), right or wrong. Half or more are younger than 45.
Macdonald gets $9M/year in SEA. I think the $13M/year reported isn't a stretch considering he was far and away the top coordinator on market.
Let them pay him. I am not against moving to younger coaches. This isn't the first time it's happened. Younger doesn't always mean better, however. I will remind you, Matt Nagy was 42 when the Bears hired him. How did that work out?

Time will tell but again, I would feel more comfortable hiring a coach with more successful experience. I hope he succeeds. But, we'll see. I am not saying he won't succeed. No one knows. I simply say I don't trust the Bears organization.
 
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Let them pay him. I am not against moving to younger coaches. This isn't the first time it's happened. Younger doesn't always mean better, however. I will remind you, Matt Nagy was 42 when the Bears hired him. How did that work out?

Time will tell but again, I would feel more comfortable hiring a coach with more successful experience. I hope he succeeds. But, we'll see. I am not saying he won't succeed. No one knows. I simply say I don't trust the Bears organization.
Ya I know younger doesn't mean better never said that. I specifically said "The league is moving towards younger HC(s), right or wrong." That is fact, not my opinion. Fully aware of Nagy and how it worked out. Matt Nagy doesn't have anything to do with Johnson. Matt Nagy's success or failure has nothing to do with Ben Johnson's success or failure.

Again, if you wanted experience just say that, I respect that view and do understand the logic. Not sure why you needed to bring up money, why does it matter? Your view stands just fine saying you wanted experience. The Bears had a true target and did what they had to secure him….that’s a step in the correct direction, IMO.
 
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You need to move on. It's obvious you don't watch, listen to or read media pieces. Because I have seen, heard and read media pieces discussing this very thing. On 670 they discussed the fact Johnson will make more than the head coach of the franchise he left. You are the one who constantly says don't listen to the media. Now you mention the media when you want to make a point. You can't have it both ways.
Ok let's use The Score as an example. From what you said they are just stating a fact, that he will make more than any Bears coach in history. Did they also say they felt it was too much money?

How's past success working out for McCarthy?
 
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