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Provi/SF

IMO, refs made the correct call.

The delay of game was bc the qb didn’t immediately take a knee. He tried to get a few extra seconds off the clock.

Think about it, you don’t get to run three seconds off the clock, get a delay of game and then redo the down. The offense could do this several times and run time off the clock and still have a first down.
What you described is 100% legal in the confines of the NFHS rule book. QB is not required to immediately kneel. Also- even if it was delay of game it would never constitute loss of down.

Provi/SF

Umpire called it a live ball foul "Delay of Game". QB was supposed to take a knee ASAP. Instead, it should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct, as St Francis QB should have gone knee to the ground, without hesitation, since Providence was not rushing.

And #4, illegal forward handling.
In the nfhs rulebook that’s included under illegal forward pass
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Provi/SF

IMO, refs made the correct call.

The delay of game was bc the qb didn’t immediately take a knee. He tried to get a few extra seconds off the clock.

Think about it, you don’t get to run three seconds off the clock, get a delay of game and then redo the down. The offense could do this several times and run time off the clock and still have a first down.
It is a live play; the QB is not required to immediately kneel it out.

Provi/SF

Just watched the tape and I am going to offer my less-than-2 cents about the St. Francis offensive sequence that started with 50-plus seconds to go in the game.
1) The first-down play, there were two mistakes made by refs but neither one was actually fatal in terms of "robbing" the Spartans of what appeared to be a sure victory.
The first error: The referee signaled after the flag was thrown that there was a delay of game penalty. Actually, a delay on first down not only wouldn't have occurred but would make no sense as the clock was not running and it certainly did not appear as though the QB was waiting for the play clock to run near zero before taking the snap. There would be no point in doing that. Rather, I think the penalty called was for illegal motion by one of the backfield guys on St. Francis moving forward before the snap. The ref signaled delay of game but I suspect that was not the actual on-the-field call. Now, because of the flag, the clock stopped. The Providence team then declined the penalty, making it second down.
The second error: One of the other officials who did not throw a flag immediately picked up the ball and walked off five yards from the spot where the St.F QB had taken a knee probably thinking that was the spot of the original line of scrimmage. That was a mistake. It made it second down and 18 instead of second-and-13. That said, the yardage was irrelevant because St.F was going to take a knee on the next two plays anyway.
2nd-and-18: take a knee. Timeout No. 2.
3rd-and-20: take a knee. Timeout No. 3.
Punt.
This is 100 pct. a guess, but I think that St.F ran three offensive plays before the punt and there was no mistake in the "downs" situation. The mistakes were a ref marking off a five-yard penalty that was declined, and another ref signaling a delay of game infraction when it really was an illegal motion penalty that would have counted the down when declined and also stopped the clock.
If you watch the St. Francis coach during the discussion with refs about the down situation after the first StF play, he is moving his arm as if showing the ref what an illegal motion penalty signal looks like rather than a delay of game signal.
If the first-down call was for illegal motion and the flag is declined, then St.F really did run three offensive plays before the punt. A ref who was not part of the discussion picked up the ball and marked off the five yards penalty which was the mistake. Should have been 2nd-and-13 instead of 2nd-and-18 but given that St.F was kneeling down, that was not really a decisive issue.
As for the hail-mary pass, at least there was a referee in correct position in the end zone to make the call. On the tape, you obviously have no idea what happened on the catch/no-catch.
Perhaps the receiver had possession of the ball in the end zone long enough in the ref's opinion to count as a catch before the ball wound up on the field.
I don't know. The still shot clearly shows the ball on the ground, but doesn't show whether the ball hit the ground after the receiver had possession of it in the end zone.
Regardless, at least the ref was in position to make a call and he made it quickly and aggressively. Did he miss the call? Perhaps he did. But it is what it is in a sport in which there is no coach's challenge and no instant replay official to make sure the original call is correct.
Yes, lot of words, but from Olderbytheminute, words are cheap ... worth less than 2 cents.
Providence only had two timeouts.

I don’t see illegal shift on that play. If it was, it would have came from the line judge.

Provi/SF

A delay should mean dead ball foul, thus 1st and 15 (offended team can always refuse the yardage), but the box read 2 (second down) for the subsequent snap. Didn't help that the scoreboard was never updated during the series. Errors in "downs" can be corrected, as in this instance.
Umpire called it a live ball foul "Delay of Game". QB was supposed to take a knee ASAP. Instead, it should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct, as St Francis QB should have gone knee to the ground, without hesitation, since Providence was not rushing.
Only 3 penalties in high school incur loss of down 1) illegal touching 2) illegal forward pass 3) intentional grounding
And #4, illegal forward handling.

Provi/SF

Just watched the tape and I am going to offer my less-than-2 cents about the St. Francis offensive sequence that started with 50-plus seconds to go in the game.
1) The first-down play, there were two mistakes made by refs but neither one was actually fatal in terms of "robbing" the Spartans of what appeared to be a sure victory.
The first error: The referee signaled after the flag was thrown that there was a delay of game penalty. Actually, a delay on first down not only wouldn't have occurred but would make no sense as the clock was not running and it certainly did not appear as though the QB was waiting for the play clock to run near zero before taking the snap. There would be no point in doing that. Rather, I think the penalty called was for illegal motion by one of the backfield guys on St. Francis moving forward before the snap. The ref signaled delay of game but I suspect that was not the actual on-the-field call. Now, because of the flag, the clock stopped. The Providence team then declined the penalty, making it second down.
The second error: One of the other officials who did not throw a flag immediately picked up the ball and walked off five yards from the spot where the St.F QB had taken a knee probably thinking that was the spot of the original line of scrimmage. That was a mistake. It made it second down and 18 instead of second-and-13. That said, the yardage was irrelevant because St.F was going to take a knee on the next two plays anyway.
2nd-and-18: take a knee. Timeout No. 2.
3rd-and-20: take a knee. Timeout No. 3.
Punt.
This is 100 pct. a guess, but I think that St.F ran three offensive plays before the punt and there was no mistake in the "downs" situation. The mistakes were a ref marking off a five-yard penalty that was declined, and another ref signaling a delay of game infraction when it really was an illegal motion penalty that would have counted the down when declined and also stopped the clock.
If you watch the St. Francis coach during the discussion with refs about the down situation after the first StF play, he is moving his arm as if showing the ref what an illegal motion penalty signal looks like rather than a delay of game signal.
If the first-down call was for illegal motion and the flag is declined, then St.F really did run three offensive plays before the punt. A ref who was not part of the discussion picked up the ball and marked off the five yards penalty which was the mistake. Should have been 2nd-and-13 instead of 2nd-and-18 but given that St.F was kneeling down, that was not really a decisive issue.
As for the hail-mary pass, at least there was a referee in correct position in the end zone to make the call. On the tape, you obviously have no idea what happened on the catch/no-catch.
Perhaps the receiver had possession of the ball in the end zone long enough in the ref's opinion to count as a catch before the ball wound up on the field.
I don't know. The still shot clearly shows the ball on the ground, but doesn't show whether the ball hit the ground after the receiver had possession of it in the end zone.
Regardless, at least the ref was in position to make a call and he made it quickly and aggressively. Did he miss the call? Perhaps he did. But it is what it is in a sport in which there is no coach's challenge and no instant replay official to make sure the original call is correct.
Yes, lot of words, but from Olderbytheminute, words are cheap ... worth less than 2 cents.

Provi/SF

Not an official here but one thing that comes to mind is that delay of game is not necessarily only for letting the play clock expire. At least in the NFL, spiking the ball after the play is called a delay of game. In fact, Jalen Hurts was just called for that infraction in a recent game. Perhaps there is a rule that if a quarterback does not immediately go down on a kneel, it is delay of game as well?
The flag is clearly after the play and that doesn’t align with the idea that they were penalized for the play clock running out. It also seems in the discussion between the Francis Coach and officials, the coach mimics a kneeling motion to show what he thinks happened.
Just checked NFHS rule book there is no such rule regarding delay of game for immediate kneel down. My guess is this is a college crew and they confused the rules which is more common than you think.

Naz 16 Hilltoppers 13 FINAL nm

Did JCA really let NAZ run out the clock at the end of the 1st Qtr, with 3rd and 11 at their own 1 yard line, GOING into the wind?

Just to have them get the wind behind them the pass for 14 yards 1st play of the 2nd?

Very very very STUPID.
I was watching on the stream and thought the same thing. Could've made them punt into the wind.

Provi/SF

Nah we still need them. I’m sure it’s been fleshed out but if they decline the delay of game the clock shouldn’t stop after 1st down (it did). If they accepted it, it shouldn’t be a loss of down and the clock should stop. But it was both a yard penalty and loss of down - which I haven’t seen before. Curious as to thoughts.
I’ll call them back.

@stripes13 @Chief321 @Zebra @William Foster
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Provi/SF

Nah we still need them. If Providence declines the delay of game the clock shouldn’t stop after 1st down (it did). If they accepted it, it shouldn’t be a loss of down and the clock should stop. But it was both a 5 yard penalty and loss of down - which I haven’t seen before. Curious as to thoughts from the stripes here.
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Provi/SF

Not an official here but one thing that comes to mind is that delay of game is not necessarily only for letting the play clock expire. At least in the NFL, spiking the ball after the play is called a delay of game. In fact, Jalen Hurts was just called for that infraction in a recent game. Perhaps there is a rule that if a quarterback does not immediately go down on a kneel, it is delay of game as well?
The flag is clearly after the play and that doesn’t align with the idea that they were penalized for the play clock running out. It also seems in the discussion between the Francis Coach and officials, the coach mimics a kneeling motion to show what he thinks happened.

CS8 Predictions-Week 5

Just asking for discussion purposes... but at what point is the schedule early on partially to blame for the injuries? Let's be real, Rochester is trotting out 4A athletes. On film the Rockets seems smaller than usual, and they've had some smaller teams in years. Without much to compare it to, outside the one-off Loyola Covid Special, it would appear the Rockets physically can't withstand non-conf games with huge programs. Which leads to my next comment that is, DL scheduled this way for two reasons... test the boys, and if the L's followed it only gives them an even easier path to 4A state than usual. Just observations. I know a certain Villager will have an opinion on this and he is NOT named RocketNation...

I'll admit, this was my largest concern for QND coming into the year. 7A-4A... QND plays no one smaller. The injury bug due to clashing with much larger bodies all year was where I thought the Raiders would start coming off the rails. And this very well could still happen.
Scheduling better competition strengthens the program and also gives a better shot at gaining playoff points for a better seeding in Wek 10. For years, the CS8 undefeated champ could only garner 36 points. Whereas other programs were seeing no less than 40 points. This equates to better seeding
Rochester enrollment is 754 not 882. Simeon is a 5A program with enrollment of 1374.
Simeon has not been 5A since 1997. They are 6A, sometimes 7A, and infrequently have been 8A.

CS8 Predictions-Week 5

Finals
Jacksonville 40 Southeast 0.
SHG 63 Lanphier 6.
Chatham 34 MacArthur 6. Mac almost always shows much better at home then away. Guess who makes the trip over to the Generals in Week 7?

Lincoln 55 Eisenhower 24. Looks like Ike scored either 3 or 4 TD's depending on their conversions. A small positive note for the Panthers.

QND 14 Springfield 9. A rare defensive battle in the CS8 looks like in went down to the final play. QND now has a legitimate chance to go 8-1. Next week's Jacksonville vs Springfield contest is really important for both teams.

Rochester 38 U High 30. This definitely went down to the game's final play. My "watch the first two series" advice looked good for exactly the first two series, as Rochester got a 3 and out to start the game and then scored in two plays. After that, the contest turned into an offensive back and forth. U High's QB consistently played at a high level, and he has a good mix of Receivers. As the game went on, Rochester got less and less pressure on him, and he had some very good moments. Rochester was hurt in the first half on offense by busted plays, several holding calls, and another mishandled snap. Unlike the '23 team which wasn't fazed by down and distance, this one does not operate well from 3rd and 30. In the 2nd half, the offense performed better. QB Tanner Beal ran for three scores and threw for one. Beal also played DB the entire game out of necessity as 3 Rocket starting defenders did not dress.
The lack of Jamal Bramer and Eli Carlson was noticeable on the Rocket D.

Is Dierre Hill the State's Top RB? Who Else?

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Provi/SF

@DMurph11 I'm still not seeing it. Delay of game on first knee, so should have been 1st down again. Then another knee, then a running play, then a punt.
A delay should mean dead ball foul, thus 1st and 15 (offended team can always refuse the yardage), but the box read 2 (second down) for the subsequent snap. Didn't help that the scoreboard was never updated during the series. Errors in "downs" can be corrected, as in this instance.
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