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Provi/SF

Just watched the tape and I am going to offer my less-than-2 cents about the St. Francis offensive sequence that started with 50-plus seconds to go in the game.
1) The first-down play, there were two mistakes made by refs but neither one was actually fatal in terms of "robbing" the Spartans of what appeared to be a sure victory.
The first error: The referee signaled after the flag was thrown that there was a delay of game penalty. Actually, a delay on first down not only wouldn't have occurred but would make no sense as the clock was not running and it certainly did not appear as though the QB was waiting for the play clock to run near zero before taking the snap. There would be no point in doing that. Rather, I think the penalty called was for illegal motion by one of the backfield guys on St. Francis moving forward before the snap. The ref signaled delay of game but I suspect that was not the actual on-the-field call. Now, because of the flag, the clock stopped. The Providence team then declined the penalty, making it second down.
The second error: One of the other officials who did not throw a flag immediately picked up the ball and walked off five yards from the spot where the St.F QB had taken a knee probably thinking that was the spot of the original line of scrimmage. That was a mistake. It made it second down and 18 instead of second-and-13. That said, the yardage was irrelevant because St.F was going to take a knee on the next two plays anyway.
2nd-and-18: take a knee. Timeout No. 2.
3rd-and-20: take a knee. Timeout No. 3.
Punt.
This is 100 pct. a guess, but I think that St.F ran three offensive plays before the punt and there was no mistake in the "downs" situation. The mistakes were a ref marking off a five-yard penalty that was declined, and another ref signaling a delay of game infraction when it really was an illegal motion penalty that would have counted the down when declined and also stopped the clock.
If you watch the St. Francis coach during the discussion with refs about the down situation after the first StF play, he is moving his arm as if showing the ref what an illegal motion penalty signal looks like rather than a delay of game signal.
If the first-down call was for illegal motion and the flag is declined, then St.F really did run three offensive plays before the punt. A ref who was not part of the discussion picked up the ball and marked off the five yards penalty which was the mistake. Should have been 2nd-and-13 instead of 2nd-and-18 but given that St.F was kneeling down, that was not really a decisive issue.
As for the hail-mary pass, at least there was a referee in correct position in the end zone to make the call. On the tape, you obviously have no idea what happened on the catch/no-catch.
Perhaps the receiver had possession of the ball in the end zone long enough in the ref's opinion to count as a catch before the ball wound up on the field.
I don't know. The still shot clearly shows the ball on the ground, but doesn't show whether the ball hit the ground after the receiver had possession of it in the end zone.
Regardless, at least the ref was in position to make a call and he made it quickly and aggressively. Did he miss the call? Perhaps he did. But it is what it is in a sport in which there is no coach's challenge and no instant replay official to make sure the original call is correct.
Yes, lot of words, but from Olderbytheminute, words are cheap ... worth less than 2 cents.
 
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A delay should mean dead ball foul, thus 1st and 15 (offended team can always refuse the yardage), but the box read 2 (second down) for the subsequent snap. Didn't help that the scoreboard was never updated during the series. Errors in "downs" can be corrected, as in this instance.
Umpire called it a live ball foul "Delay of Game". QB was supposed to take a knee ASAP. Instead, it should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct, as St Francis QB should have gone knee to the ground, without hesitation, since Providence was not rushing.
Only 3 penalties in high school incur loss of down 1) illegal touching 2) illegal forward pass 3) intentional grounding
And #4, illegal forward handling.
 
IMO, refs made the correct call.

The delay of game was bc the qb didn’t immediately take a knee. He tried to get a few extra seconds off the clock.

Think about it, you don’t get to run three seconds off the clock, get a delay of game and then redo the down. The offense could do this several times and run time off the clock and still have a first down.
 
Just watched the tape and I am going to offer my less-than-2 cents about the St. Francis offensive sequence that started with 50-plus seconds to go in the game.
1) The first-down play, there were two mistakes made by refs but neither one was actually fatal in terms of "robbing" the Spartans of what appeared to be a sure victory.
The first error: The referee signaled after the flag was thrown that there was a delay of game penalty. Actually, a delay on first down not only wouldn't have occurred but would make no sense as the clock was not running and it certainly did not appear as though the QB was waiting for the play clock to run near zero before taking the snap. There would be no point in doing that. Rather, I think the penalty called was for illegal motion by one of the backfield guys on St. Francis moving forward before the snap. The ref signaled delay of game but I suspect that was not the actual on-the-field call. Now, because of the flag, the clock stopped. The Providence team then declined the penalty, making it second down.
The second error: One of the other officials who did not throw a flag immediately picked up the ball and walked off five yards from the spot where the St.F QB had taken a knee probably thinking that was the spot of the original line of scrimmage. That was a mistake. It made it second down and 18 instead of second-and-13. That said, the yardage was irrelevant because St.F was going to take a knee on the next two plays anyway.
2nd-and-18: take a knee. Timeout No. 2.
3rd-and-20: take a knee. Timeout No. 3.
Punt.
This is 100 pct. a guess, but I think that St.F ran three offensive plays before the punt and there was no mistake in the "downs" situation. The mistakes were a ref marking off a five-yard penalty that was declined, and another ref signaling a delay of game infraction when it really was an illegal motion penalty that would have counted the down when declined and also stopped the clock.
If you watch the St. Francis coach during the discussion with refs about the down situation after the first StF play, he is moving his arm as if showing the ref what an illegal motion penalty signal looks like rather than a delay of game signal.
If the first-down call was for illegal motion and the flag is declined, then St.F really did run three offensive plays before the punt. A ref who was not part of the discussion picked up the ball and marked off the five yards penalty which was the mistake. Should have been 2nd-and-13 instead of 2nd-and-18 but given that St.F was kneeling down, that was not really a decisive issue.
As for the hail-mary pass, at least there was a referee in correct position in the end zone to make the call. On the tape, you obviously have no idea what happened on the catch/no-catch.
Perhaps the receiver had possession of the ball in the end zone long enough in the ref's opinion to count as a catch before the ball wound up on the field.
I don't know. The still shot clearly shows the ball on the ground, but doesn't show whether the ball hit the ground after the receiver had possession of it in the end zone.
Regardless, at least the ref was in position to make a call and he made it quickly and aggressively. Did he miss the call? Perhaps he did. But it is what it is in a sport in which there is no coach's challenge and no instant replay official to make sure the original call is correct.
Yes, lot of words, but from Olderbytheminute, words are cheap ... worth less than 2 cents.
Providence only had two timeouts.

I don’t see illegal shift on that play. If it was, it would have came from the line judge.
 
IMO, refs made the correct call.

The delay of game was bc the qb didn’t immediately take a knee. He tried to get a few extra seconds off the clock.

Think about it, you don’t get to run three seconds off the clock, get a delay of game and then redo the down. The offense could do this several times and run time off the clock and still have a first down.
It is a live play; the QB is not required to immediately kneel it out.
 
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If the receiver catches the ball, seems to have control however brief, but then falls on his back and the fall dislodges the ball, is that a catch?
 
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Umpire called it a live ball foul "Delay of Game". QB was supposed to take a knee ASAP. Instead, it should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct, as St Francis QB should have gone knee to the ground, without hesitation, since Providence was not rushing.

And #4, illegal forward handling.
In the nfhs rulebook that’s included under illegal forward pass
 
IMO, refs made the correct call.

The delay of game was bc the qb didn’t immediately take a knee. He tried to get a few extra seconds off the clock.

Think about it, you don’t get to run three seconds off the clock, get a delay of game and then redo the down. The offense could do this several times and run time off the clock and still have a first down.
What you described is 100% legal in the confines of the NFHS rule book. QB is not required to immediately kneel. Also- even if it was delay of game it would never constitute loss of down.
 
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