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Provi/SF

The issue is for safety sake Providence isnt allowed to rush there. SF was going to take a knee. They delayed. Call should have been Dead ball Unsportsmanlike and loss of 15 yards, then 2nd down Delay of game was called and it can be that as well and saves SF 10 yards.

Why does penalty look like 10 yards....because SF QB didnt take a knee he walked back a few yards maybe 5 and then there are 5 more yards for penalty second down.

In high school football if you say you are taking a knee, take a knee. If not that can happen. It looks bad but not necessarily incorrect. I wasnt there but thats who things have transpired. Im not digging through the rulebook though either.

What HS team do you root for

Yes CC did play some old SICA schools at one point. As I understand it, Shepard was approached by CC and would not play us. Draw your own conclusion on that one
We are on the same page. Reavis & St.Laurence played Varsity 2 years in a row to huge crowds. Reavis won the 2nd year. Tim Chandler wanted to keep it going but Reavis was like whew we broke even so let’s end it at that. Both years of those games some wacky crazy weather
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Naz 16 Hilltoppers 13 FINAL nm

The wind certainly factored into the scheming of both teams.
Until the Hilltoppers move past committing untimely penalties and adapt to defending those killer slant routes, the boys look to face more disappointment in the coming weeks.
As a team they have shown a lot of growth, but discipline comes with maturity and the mental mistakes reveal that they still have along way to go.
Taking nothing from Naz, but the Hilltoppers certainly beat themselves last night.
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Provi/SF

In high school football, a delay of game penalty can be incurred if the offense doesn't snap the ball before the play clock runs out. The referee will signal the penalty by crossing their arms at their chest with their palms facing down. The penalty for a delay of game is five yards.


A delay of game is a deliberate action by a player or team to stall the game, usually to their advantage. In some sports, a penalty can be issued if the delay is longer than the rules allow.


Found this explanation online. Don't know why it would be written if not true as the circumstances occur like once in a lifetime.
Kind of like the high school state semifinal several years ago when a Catholic League team seemingly won the game when the QB threw a long pass out of bounds on purpose as time expired. He got called for intentional grounding, the other team kicked a field goal with 0:00 on the clock and then won in OT. That was a once-in-a-lifetime play ... of course, the exact same thing had happened in a major college football game 7 days earlier so I guess we have all lived two lifetimes.

Anyway, I guess the refs decided that the qb by going backward on purpose was stalling the game to their advantage. Hence, the five-yard delay of game penalty and clock stoppage after first down. The next two plays, Providence called timeouts and the qb stopped walking backward and immediately took a knee so no penalty. He was probably told by his coach to do that on second and third down.
Problem for us is that we have probably never seen that called before. The ref behind the defensive line immediately threw the flag when the qb was walked backward with the ball.
If that's the rule, then that's the rule and all of us complaining about the refs blowing the game are wrong and the refs are correct. Note that the St. Francis coach clearly understood the explanation as he patted a ref on the butt as the teams were organizing for the second-down play.
The point, I guess, is that you have to count that first-down play as a down and stop the clock on the penalty. Otherwise the QB could deliberately stall the game and run out the clock by taking "delay of game" penalties all the way back to his team's 1-yard line or until the clock hits 0:00, whichever comes first.
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Provi/SF

IMO, refs made the correct call.

The delay of game was bc the qb didn’t immediately take a knee. He tried to get a few extra seconds off the clock.

Think about it, you don’t get to run three seconds off the clock, get a delay of game and then redo the down. The offense could do this several times and run time off the clock and still have a first down.
What you described is 100% legal in the confines of the NFHS rule book. QB is not required to immediately kneel. Also- even if it was delay of game it would never constitute loss of down.

Provi/SF

Umpire called it a live ball foul "Delay of Game". QB was supposed to take a knee ASAP. Instead, it should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct, as St Francis QB should have gone knee to the ground, without hesitation, since Providence was not rushing.

And #4, illegal forward handling.
In the nfhs rulebook that’s included under illegal forward pass
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Provi/SF

IMO, refs made the correct call.

The delay of game was bc the qb didn’t immediately take a knee. He tried to get a few extra seconds off the clock.

Think about it, you don’t get to run three seconds off the clock, get a delay of game and then redo the down. The offense could do this several times and run time off the clock and still have a first down.
It is a live play; the QB is not required to immediately kneel it out.

Provi/SF

Just watched the tape and I am going to offer my less-than-2 cents about the St. Francis offensive sequence that started with 50-plus seconds to go in the game.
1) The first-down play, there were two mistakes made by refs but neither one was actually fatal in terms of "robbing" the Spartans of what appeared to be a sure victory.
The first error: The referee signaled after the flag was thrown that there was a delay of game penalty. Actually, a delay on first down not only wouldn't have occurred but would make no sense as the clock was not running and it certainly did not appear as though the QB was waiting for the play clock to run near zero before taking the snap. There would be no point in doing that. Rather, I think the penalty called was for illegal motion by one of the backfield guys on St. Francis moving forward before the snap. The ref signaled delay of game but I suspect that was not the actual on-the-field call. Now, because of the flag, the clock stopped. The Providence team then declined the penalty, making it second down.
The second error: One of the other officials who did not throw a flag immediately picked up the ball and walked off five yards from the spot where the St.F QB had taken a knee probably thinking that was the spot of the original line of scrimmage. That was a mistake. It made it second down and 18 instead of second-and-13. That said, the yardage was irrelevant because St.F was going to take a knee on the next two plays anyway.
2nd-and-18: take a knee. Timeout No. 2.
3rd-and-20: take a knee. Timeout No. 3.
Punt.
This is 100 pct. a guess, but I think that St.F ran three offensive plays before the punt and there was no mistake in the "downs" situation. The mistakes were a ref marking off a five-yard penalty that was declined, and another ref signaling a delay of game infraction when it really was an illegal motion penalty that would have counted the down when declined and also stopped the clock.
If you watch the St. Francis coach during the discussion with refs about the down situation after the first StF play, he is moving his arm as if showing the ref what an illegal motion penalty signal looks like rather than a delay of game signal.
If the first-down call was for illegal motion and the flag is declined, then St.F really did run three offensive plays before the punt. A ref who was not part of the discussion picked up the ball and marked off the five yards penalty which was the mistake. Should have been 2nd-and-13 instead of 2nd-and-18 but given that St.F was kneeling down, that was not really a decisive issue.
As for the hail-mary pass, at least there was a referee in correct position in the end zone to make the call. On the tape, you obviously have no idea what happened on the catch/no-catch.
Perhaps the receiver had possession of the ball in the end zone long enough in the ref's opinion to count as a catch before the ball wound up on the field.
I don't know. The still shot clearly shows the ball on the ground, but doesn't show whether the ball hit the ground after the receiver had possession of it in the end zone.
Regardless, at least the ref was in position to make a call and he made it quickly and aggressively. Did he miss the call? Perhaps he did. But it is what it is in a sport in which there is no coach's challenge and no instant replay official to make sure the original call is correct.
Yes, lot of words, but from Olderbytheminute, words are cheap ... worth less than 2 cents.
Providence only had two timeouts.

I don’t see illegal shift on that play. If it was, it would have came from the line judge.

Provi/SF

A delay should mean dead ball foul, thus 1st and 15 (offended team can always refuse the yardage), but the box read 2 (second down) for the subsequent snap. Didn't help that the scoreboard was never updated during the series. Errors in "downs" can be corrected, as in this instance.
Umpire called it a live ball foul "Delay of Game". QB was supposed to take a knee ASAP. Instead, it should have been called unsportsmanlike conduct, as St Francis QB should have gone knee to the ground, without hesitation, since Providence was not rushing.
Only 3 penalties in high school incur loss of down 1) illegal touching 2) illegal forward pass 3) intentional grounding
And #4, illegal forward handling.

Provi/SF

Just watched the tape and I am going to offer my less-than-2 cents about the St. Francis offensive sequence that started with 50-plus seconds to go in the game.
1) The first-down play, there were two mistakes made by refs but neither one was actually fatal in terms of "robbing" the Spartans of what appeared to be a sure victory.
The first error: The referee signaled after the flag was thrown that there was a delay of game penalty. Actually, a delay on first down not only wouldn't have occurred but would make no sense as the clock was not running and it certainly did not appear as though the QB was waiting for the play clock to run near zero before taking the snap. There would be no point in doing that. Rather, I think the penalty called was for illegal motion by one of the backfield guys on St. Francis moving forward before the snap. The ref signaled delay of game but I suspect that was not the actual on-the-field call. Now, because of the flag, the clock stopped. The Providence team then declined the penalty, making it second down.
The second error: One of the other officials who did not throw a flag immediately picked up the ball and walked off five yards from the spot where the St.F QB had taken a knee probably thinking that was the spot of the original line of scrimmage. That was a mistake. It made it second down and 18 instead of second-and-13. That said, the yardage was irrelevant because St.F was going to take a knee on the next two plays anyway.
2nd-and-18: take a knee. Timeout No. 2.
3rd-and-20: take a knee. Timeout No. 3.
Punt.
This is 100 pct. a guess, but I think that St.F ran three offensive plays before the punt and there was no mistake in the "downs" situation. The mistakes were a ref marking off a five-yard penalty that was declined, and another ref signaling a delay of game infraction when it really was an illegal motion penalty that would have counted the down when declined and also stopped the clock.
If you watch the St. Francis coach during the discussion with refs about the down situation after the first StF play, he is moving his arm as if showing the ref what an illegal motion penalty signal looks like rather than a delay of game signal.
If the first-down call was for illegal motion and the flag is declined, then St.F really did run three offensive plays before the punt. A ref who was not part of the discussion picked up the ball and marked off the five yards penalty which was the mistake. Should have been 2nd-and-13 instead of 2nd-and-18 but given that St.F was kneeling down, that was not really a decisive issue.
As for the hail-mary pass, at least there was a referee in correct position in the end zone to make the call. On the tape, you obviously have no idea what happened on the catch/no-catch.
Perhaps the receiver had possession of the ball in the end zone long enough in the ref's opinion to count as a catch before the ball wound up on the field.
I don't know. The still shot clearly shows the ball on the ground, but doesn't show whether the ball hit the ground after the receiver had possession of it in the end zone.
Regardless, at least the ref was in position to make a call and he made it quickly and aggressively. Did he miss the call? Perhaps he did. But it is what it is in a sport in which there is no coach's challenge and no instant replay official to make sure the original call is correct.
Yes, lot of words, but from Olderbytheminute, words are cheap ... worth less than 2 cents.
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