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Michigan State

Which incidents were not reported to the police??? Now we are blaming MSU because these cases were not prosecuted??? How is that possibly their fault? From the cases that I have seen, all were turned into the proper authorities, seems like your problem is with the Michigan legal system, not MSU..

And with these incidents seem to be happening off campus, how much liability should MSU have anyway???

From what I have seen, the only thing that should cause MSU problems is if they covered up Nasser, the rest seems that its just being decided in social media.

But the simple aspect is these kids were allowed to keep playing without punishment. And some were repeat offenders.

Now one can say well we cant just suspend them for this alleged behavior. One incident is alleging, multiple is a pattern. This isn't a one off or two off situation. This is a historic trend of boorish behavior.
 
But the simple aspect is these kids were allowed to keep playing without punishment. And some were repeat offenders.

Now one can say well we cant just suspend them for this alleged behavior. One incident is alleging, multiple is a pattern. This isn't a one off or two off situation. This is a historic trend of boorish behavior.

Which athletes were accused multiple times?

Or should we suspend Athlete #4 because Athlete #1 was accused 2 years ago? Should the entire judicial system follow that same set of parameters?

I get what you are saying, but seems the law enforcement agencies and prosecutors would be the ones to investigate, not the coaches.
 
Which athletes were accused multiple times?

Or should we suspend Athlete #4 because Athlete #1 was accused 2 years ago? Should the entire judicial system follow that same set of parameters?

I get what you are saying, but seems the law enforcement agencies and prosecutors would be the ones to investigate, not the coaches.
A total lack of institutional control my man. Inadequate controls in place.
 
If you can stomach it:
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/19/...-abuse-timeline-usa-gymnastics-michigan-state

First assault took place in 1992. The now former president makes an appearance 22 years later, because she learned of a Title IX complaint. What's not included in this timeline is the following:
* NCAA President Mark Emert learned of 37 athlete sexual abuse cases in 2010, and nothing done.
* The subsequent findings by ESPN on the football and basketball teams.
* MSU preemptively suing ESPN to block the release of information regarding those 37 sexual abuse cases
* The now former president of MSU meeting with our Secretary of Education, then two days later Ms. Devos (Grand Rapids) rolling back Title IX protections

MSU doesn't deserve athletics. Let all athletes transfer without penalty, and those not wishing to further pursue athletics should have their tuition (wherever the choose to attend) paid for by what was the athletic budget.
Sexual abuse and sexual assaults are criminal issues. Title IX is for civil issues and not designed to handle criminal issues as so many schools are finding out.
 
A total lack of institutional control my man. Inadequate controls in place.

Specific examples?

I see a public lynching via social media, but no specifics of what should have been done differently and in what cases.

Should schools begin punishing students based on accusations? The media is pushing that agenda, but what would their take on that be if the US legal system did the same thing?
 
So under what circumstance should a coach like Izzo - Walton, Payne, Appling, and Dantonio - 16 reported incidents of criminal sexual assault 10 of which didn't make it out of the football offices, be held accountable. They are the leaders of their respective programs. Just simply passing along the info hasn't worked as it kept happening. Worked real well for Nassar too didn't it.

Sorry but no sympathy for anyone that ever attempts to cover a crime up or has this happen more than once on their watch. Its a privilege to play college basketball and football not a right. Its a privilege to be allowed to coach at one of these institutions not a right. When you choose to ignore or do the bare bones minimum by allowing these players to keep playing - see Payne, Appling and countless others on the football team, you are now part of the problem not part of the solution.
 
Specific examples?

I see a public lynching via social media, but no specifics of what should have been done differently and in what cases.

Should schools begin punishing students based on accusations? The media is pushing that agenda, but what would their take on that be if the US legal system did the same thing?

When you sign your scholarship you are entering into a contract with the NCAA and university. There is a morals clause in the contract. At any time the university can terminate that scholarship. This isn't a matter of US law or criminal law this is contractual law.

Each one of these young men - football and basketball alike, signed this agreement and knew the score of the game. They chose to put themselves in a position to violate that clause. The fact their coaches let them play means they either A - had evidence that no one else had that deemed these kids fit to play and had violated no laws (We know that's not true because some of these cases went to trial so the DA disagreed), or B - They chose to look the other way - ie - Two football players at MSU who Dantonio is on the record of saying go talk to your parents.

You don't get to choose which laws and rules you want to follow.
 
You keep overlooking the fact that they were never found guilty of anything...

Didn't you learn anything from Duke lacrosse????
 
You keep overlooking the fact that they were never found guilty of anything...

Didn't you learn anything from Duke lacrosse????

There is a CONDUCT CLAUSE. The Duke Lacrosse case was a fabricated case developed by the local DA and a rogue cop. Neither is the case in this situation. In one instance, an accuser, who as told by members of the athletic department to retract her story, killed herself. Kinda hard to facilitate a criminal trial when the victim dies.

Bottom line is the burden of proof required to dismiss a student or remove their scholarship is far less than that of a criminal proceeding. This again - much like Baylor, and Penn State, is a situation where it was much easier to turn the other cheek and do the minimum then act against.

Izzo and Dantonio may end up keeping their jobs, but the stain from this will live on for a very long time.

You can also add Kathy Klages to this mess. She was the head gymnastics coach who, on the record it was reported by more than one athlete, that Nassar was sexually abusing athletes. She told the athletes that their story would ruin the name of a good man and that they were mistaken - in some cases threatening them if they went to the media. She conveniently retired.

Its a case of lack of institutional control on many levels. No one comes out of this smelling like a rose ever again.
 
How do you know any of these cases are not fabricated??????

As for Rizzo, he has been there like 22 years, ESPN was able to name ONE case of where a player from the basketball program was accused of anything... in that case the girl admitted stripping for the two players and then said there was non consensual sex.. and no charges were filed.. and the kids never missed a game..

If Izzo is the litmus test, how many long time coaches could say they had one similar incident in 22 years????
 
How do you know any of these cases are not fabricated??????

As for Rizzo, he has been there like 22 years, ESPN was able to name ONE case of where a player from the basketball program was accused of anything... in that case the girl admitted stripping for the two players and then said there was non consensual sex.. and no charges were filed.. and the kids never missed a game..

If Izzo is the litmus test, how many long time coaches could say they had one similar incident in 22 years????

You know what I don't know that they were or weren't. But the moment we don't believe a sexual abuse victim and she is telling the truth is the moment we all fail. I have a daughter. I will err on the side of caution.
 
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You know what I don't know that they were or weren't. But the moment we don't believe a sexual abuse victim and she is telling the truth is the moment we all fail. I have a daughter. I will err on the side of caution.

That goes both ways, and I have a son.. do I want him punished because someone accuses him of something?

Not trying to make this political... but right now we have the media all over MSU basketball and football based on accusations and because of the connection to Nasser, nothing factual. yet that same media is pushing for protections of rights of undocumented residents.

I get it, its a delicate topic and these cases are hard to prove because they often happen in private and its a he said/she said case, but the accused athletes (and by connection Izzo), deserve to have due process.
 
A few observations I have on this subject. First of all, this type of behavior has been going on at colleges and has been swept under the rug for decades. For as long as men and women have been attending college together, it has been happening. It didn't just start recently. This isn't the only thing colleges sweep under the rug.

This is also going on in high schools too and in many junior high schools as well. It isn't limited to colleges alone. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

Anything that can potentially do damage to any institution, or some people at the institution, comes with the option of hiding it, which is brought into the equation. It may not always be acted on, but the option is still there. The initial idea is to control the fire so it doesn't become a forest fire. Unfortunately, for them and everyone else involved, a friendly fire can become a hostile fire which is out of control, as we see here.

If you want to cover something up, you had better know you are rolling the dice and the penalty is going to be stiff if it gets out..especially in today's world.

As for the media. There is absolutely nowhere a person can go to get unbiased reporting on any subject. So, people believe who they like and not necessarily the person telling the truth with facts. It's sad, but that's how it is.
 
Which incidents were not reported to the police??? Now we are blaming MSU because these cases were not prosecuted??? How is that possibly their fault? From the cases that I have seen, all were turned into the proper authorities, seems like your problem is with the Michigan legal system, not MSU..

And with these incidents seem to be happening off campus, how much liability should MSU have anyway???

From what I have seen, the only thing that should cause MSU problems is if they covered up Nasser, the rest seems that its just being decided in social media.

Get your head out of the sand or any other orifice it may be in.

The cover ups here go deep. Real deep. All the way to the secretary of the Department of Education.

We should feel sorry for MSU? They should all burn in hell.
 
That goes both ways, and I have a son.. do I want him punished because someone accuses him of something?

Not trying to make this political... but right now we have the media all over MSU basketball and football based on accusations and because of the connection to Nasser, nothing factual. yet that same media is pushing for protections of rights of undocumented residents.

I get it, its a delicate topic and these cases are hard to prove because they often happen in private and its a he said/she said case, but the accused athletes (and by connection Izzo), deserve to have due process.

Yeah. It's the medias fault. Again. They just make this crap up.

When you come up for air, let us know. Otherwise, just go away.
 
Get your head out of the sand or any other orifice it may be in.

The cover ups here go deep. Real deep. All the way to the secretary of the Department of Education.

We should feel sorry for MSU? They should all burn in hell.

Where is the cover up by MSU athletics? Every one of these accusations where reported to the police, for the most part they are nothing but recycling of old stories by ESPN for their ratings as they hemorrhage money and subscribers. The media loves guys like you, hop onto their rhetoric without checking for validity.
 
Where is the cover up by MSU athletics? Every one of these accusations where reported to the police, for the most part they are nothing but recycling of old stories by ESPN for their ratings as they hemorrhage money and subscribers. The media loves guys like you, hop onto their rhetoric without checking for validity.

Do you don’t think there was any kind of coverup by Gramm and Klages in the Larry Nassar case?

By your logic the 150 or so women that have victim statements could possibly be fabricating and the media is over dramatizing the whole story.

And the sexual assault that lead to a death of a MSU student by Adrian Payne - that was all made up too. Because Izzo and Gramm and Hollis are all great people and would never hide facts like that.

Make sure you get your green and white Pom poms. We need more head in the sand folks like you that believe only what you choose.

I suggest a night of viewing Sean Hannity, Tomi Lahren and Brit McHenry. I’m sure they will provide you all the facts you want.

Funny about Fox, they are one of the few networks - their sports affiliate FS1 being the other, that didn’t provide daily updates. Probably because it was all fake news anyway.

I mean all us journalists just sit around and fabricate news and create false sources and facts.

Makes you wonder why not once but twice ESPN took MSU to court twice to release emails, memos and court documents. Michigan State fervently fought to keep the email trails silent. Damn that fake news is harsh that way.

I’ll go with people like Sara Ganim and Bob Ley and the writers from the Michigan papers.

I don’t think Gramm and Hollis resigned because of stories and cases that lack factual back up.

I don’t think Payne was dumped by his D-league team. I don’t think Walton was removed from his program in the D-league because they were upstanding citizens.
 
Do you don’t think there was any kind of coverup by Gramm and Klages in the Larry Nassar case?

By your logic the 150 or so women that have victim statements could possibly be fabricating and the media is over dramatizing the whole story.

And the sexual assault that lead to a death of a MSU student by Adrian Payne - that was all made up too. Because Izzo and Gramm and Hollis are all great people and would never hide facts like that.

Make sure you get your green and white Pom poms. We need more head in the sand folks like you that believe only what you choose.

I suggest a night of viewing Sean Hannity, Tomi Lahren and Brit McHenry. I’m sure they will provide you all the facts you want.

Funny about Fox, they are one of the few networks - their sports affiliate FS1 being the other, that didn’t provide daily updates. Probably because it was all fake news anyway.

I mean all us journalists just sit around and fabricate news and create false sources and facts.

Makes you wonder why not once but twice ESPN took MSU to court twice to release emails, memos and court documents. Michigan State fervently fought to keep the email trails silent. Damn that fake news is harsh that way.

I’ll go with people like Sara Ganim and Bob Ley and the writers from the Michigan papers.

I don’t think Gramm and Hollis resigned because of stories and cases that lack factual back up.

I don’t think Payne was dumped by his D-league team. I don’t think Walton was removed from his program in the D-league because they were upstanding citizens.

I am not talking about Nasser, just MSU football and basketball..

Can you provide a link about the death of the Payne victim??? Anything about his conviction???
 
I am not talking about Nasser, just MSU football and basketball..

Can you provide a link about the death of the Payne victim??? Anything about his conviction???

He wasn’t convicted. Want reprimanded and didn’t miss a practice or a game. My mistake the girl who killed herself was a victim of Nassar.

The bigger point here is that when you have a pattern of events tied to your program it’s called a lack of institutional control.
 
I am not talking about Nasser, just MSU football and basketball..

Can you provide a link about the death of the Payne victim??? Anything about his conviction???

So by your logic can I ask if every person ever charged with a crime is innocent? By your logic a conviction is the only way to confirm he crime really happened.

You must be a Hannity and Fox News guy.
 
He wasn’t convicted. Want reprimanded and didn’t miss a practice or a game. My mistake the girl who killed herself was a victim of Nassar.

The bigger point here is that when you have a pattern of events tied to your program it’s called a lack of institutional control.

In typical media fashion you presented and exaggerated the facts.

Why do you have a problem that he didn't miss a game or a practice when he wasn't even charged with anything? Are you opposed to due process?

Since we are currently talking MSU basketball.. I have seen a total of ONE MSU basketball player accused of sexual assault in Izzo's 22 seasons.. Is there even such a thing as a pattern if its only one event?
 
So by your logic can I ask if every person ever charged with a crime is innocent? By your logic a conviction is the only way to confirm he crime really happened.

You must be a Hannity and Fox News guy.

Yes, thats the way the US legal system works, proof beyond a reasonable doubt.. THEN they are punished.
 
Yes, thats the way the US legal system works, proof beyond a reasonable doubt.. THEN they are punished.

So everyone who is convicted is guilty. There are never cases where someone is wrongly accused and there are never cases where guilty people go free? That wouldn’t happen ever in our legal system. How naive we all must be.
 
So everyone who is convicted is guilty. There are never cases where someone is wrongly accused and there are never cases where guilty people go free? That wouldn’t happen ever in our legal system. How naive we all must be.

They were still allowed due process.. you can argue with me all you want, I just happen to have the US Constitution that agrees with me..
 
They were still allowed due process.. you can argue with me all you want, I just happen to have the US Constitution that agrees with me..

Sorry but in a case like this, if I have a contract and you violate the terms of that contract. I as your employer and holder of the contract can terminate at any time for cause. That’s a boiler plate contract - much like a scholarship.

Michigan State could have chosen to suspend while under investigation. But chose not to. They had oh I don’t know 18-20 chances among the football and basketball program and each time they chose not to.

They knew in 2010 Larry Nasser was a serial abuser and did nothing about it. They let him stay.

You can snuggle up to the constitution , I choose right and wrong. There are consequences for actions. If I have you under contract and you decide to challenge the rules by beating up a girl in a bar or raping hundreds of teen age girls do so and hug that constitution. You won’t work for me. Try and sue, try to.
 
Where is the cover up by MSU athletics? Every one of these accusations where reported to the police, for the most part they are nothing but recycling of old stories by ESPN for their ratings as they hemorrhage money and subscribers. The media loves guys like you, hop onto their rhetoric without checking for validity.
From the link I provided:

  • MSU Detective Kelly Johnson told Nassar in December 2015 that the prosecutor wasn’t pressing charges, but reminded him to have a chaperone in the room and to explain his procedures, the Detroit Newsreported.
 
That goes both ways, and I have a son.. do I want him punished because someone accuses him of something?

Not trying to make this political... but right now we have the media all over MSU basketball and football based on accusations and because of the connection to Nasser, nothing factual. yet that same media is pushing for protections of rights of undocumented residents.

I get it, its a delicate topic and these cases are hard to prove because they often happen in private and its a he said/she said case, but the accused athletes (and by connection Izzo), deserve to have due process.
Nobody expects you to want your son punished.

Earlier in this thread you talked about the societal problems when it comes to this stuff. Well part of that societal problem are women who are assaulted, whether physically or sexually, who are afraid to come forward.
 
Two LSU basketball players done for season, another two suspended one game, coach Will Wade says...
From the start, Monday was a tough day for Will Wade.

An earlier-than-usual 6 a.m. film session to go over myriad mistakes his LSU basketball team made in a 95-70 loss to No. 11 Auburn on Saturday and refocus for Wednesday's game with 18th-ranked Tennessee in Knoxville was just a start.

By midday, Wade had suspended Wayde Sims and Brandon Rachal one game each for violating team policies and dismissed Mayan Kiir and Galen Alexander for the rest of the season.


All four disciplinary actions were separate cases, Wade said.

Sims is a sophomore, and the other three are freshmen. All four are reserves, though Sims started eight games earlier this season.


“It was my decision,” Wade said of the suspensions for Sims and Rachal. “It'll just be a one-game suspension for those guys for something you shouldn’t do within a team.

“They made a mistake. They made a mistake young people make. I think they both regret it. I don’t want to put words in their mouth, but they’re good kids. They’re good people."

Of the four, Sims and Rachal, who Wade said will be back for LSU's home game Saturday against Arkansas, have played the most this season.

Sims is averaging 5.7 points and 3.0 rebounds in playing all 20 games this season, while Rachal has averaged 4.3 points and 2.7 rebounds in 19 games. Kiir and Alexander have both played sparingly, averaging 1.9 points each.

In saying Kiir and Alexander would take a leave of absence for LSU’s final 10 games and the Southeastern Conference tournament, Wade noted Kiir could return after the spring semester if he meets certain conditions that have “clearly been laid out for him.”

Wade said Alexander, who took a brief leave in the fall, will look for another place to play next season.

Wade made the announcement during his regular media availability Monday afternoon, 48 hours before the Tigers go against the Volunteers. Wade wouldn’t elaborate on what led to his decisions.


The four subtractions will leave LSU (12-8, 3-5 SEC) with just nine bodies — seven scholarship players and two walk-ons — for the game with Tennessee (15-5, 5-3). The Vols are tied with Kentucky and Alabama for third place in the league standings.

“It’s difficult as a coach,” said the 35-year-old Wade, who’s in his fifth season as a head coach. “You look at yourself as a parent figure and want to help these guys. It’s never fun when you have to have those meetings. It’s not the most exciting part of your job, but it’s part of what you have to do.


“You have to maintain a culture. … You have to maintain a level of discipline within your program,” he said. “They will be fine. It was a mistake anybody could have made in college, and we want to represent our school, our team, better than that.”

Wade said he made the decisions Friday, but it was too late — just more than 24 hours before tipoff at Auburn — to do what he ultimately had to do.


“I just didn’t have time to execute some of the decisions before the game,” he said. “By the time some stuff got to my desk, it was Friday of last week, and I didn’t feel like it was in our best interest to do anything the day before a game.

“I needed some time where I had a little bit of a break to do what needed to be done.”

It's not the first time Sims, Alexander and Kiir have been involved in off-court issues.


This past June, they were issued misdemeanor summons by the LSU Police Department for allegedly shooting paintballs at pedestrians on the campus.

Wade knows his team will be shorthanded and won’t have a lot of length in the post beyond forwards Duop Reath and Aaron Epps against Tennessee. But he said the remaining Tigers will manage.

“We’ll figure that out. … We can play small,” he said. “Teams have to guard you if you play small. That’s on me as a coach to figure that out. We’ll put a plan together and do as best as we can.”

Suspensions with no convictions...

 
From the link I provided:

And in those examples, the police and/or prosecutor were aware of the accusations.. so how is that a cover up? Not to mention, those examples had NOTHING to do with MSU football and basketball, which is what I have been talking about, the social media assault on Izzo and Dantonio
 
Two LSU basketball players done for season, another two suspended one game, coach Will Wade says...
From the start, Monday was a tough day for Will Wade.

An earlier-than-usual 6 a.m. film session to go over myriad mistakes his LSU basketball team made in a 95-70 loss to No. 11 Auburn on Saturday and refocus for Wednesday's game with 18th-ranked Tennessee in Knoxville was just a start.

By midday, Wade had suspended Wayde Sims and Brandon Rachal one game each for violating team policies and dismissed Mayan Kiir and Galen Alexander for the rest of the season.


All four disciplinary actions were separate cases, Wade said.

Sims is a sophomore, and the other three are freshmen. All four are reserves, though Sims started eight games earlier this season.


“It was my decision,” Wade said of the suspensions for Sims and Rachal. “It'll just be a one-game suspension for those guys for something you shouldn’t do within a team.

“They made a mistake. They made a mistake young people make. I think they both regret it. I don’t want to put words in their mouth, but they’re good kids. They’re good people."

Of the four, Sims and Rachal, who Wade said will be back for LSU's home game Saturday against Arkansas, have played the most this season.

Sims is averaging 5.7 points and 3.0 rebounds in playing all 20 games this season, while Rachal has averaged 4.3 points and 2.7 rebounds in 19 games. Kiir and Alexander have both played sparingly, averaging 1.9 points each.

In saying Kiir and Alexander would take a leave of absence for LSU’s final 10 games and the Southeastern Conference tournament, Wade noted Kiir could return after the spring semester if he meets certain conditions that have “clearly been laid out for him.”

Wade said Alexander, who took a brief leave in the fall, will look for another place to play next season.

Wade made the announcement during his regular media availability Monday afternoon, 48 hours before the Tigers go against the Volunteers. Wade wouldn’t elaborate on what led to his decisions.


The four subtractions will leave LSU (12-8, 3-5 SEC) with just nine bodies — seven scholarship players and two walk-ons — for the game with Tennessee (15-5, 5-3). The Vols are tied with Kentucky and Alabama for third place in the league standings.

“It’s difficult as a coach,” said the 35-year-old Wade, who’s in his fifth season as a head coach. “You look at yourself as a parent figure and want to help these guys. It’s never fun when you have to have those meetings. It’s not the most exciting part of your job, but it’s part of what you have to do.


“You have to maintain a culture. … You have to maintain a level of discipline within your program,” he said. “They will be fine. It was a mistake anybody could have made in college, and we want to represent our school, our team, better than that.”

Wade said he made the decisions Friday, but it was too late — just more than 24 hours before tipoff at Auburn — to do what he ultimately had to do.


“I just didn’t have time to execute some of the decisions before the game,” he said. “By the time some stuff got to my desk, it was Friday of last week, and I didn’t feel like it was in our best interest to do anything the day before a game.

“I needed some time where I had a little bit of a break to do what needed to be done.”

It's not the first time Sims, Alexander and Kiir have been involved in off-court issues.


This past June, they were issued misdemeanor summons by the LSU Police Department for allegedly shooting paintballs at pedestrians on the campus.

Wade knows his team will be shorthanded and won’t have a lot of length in the post beyond forwards Duop Reath and Aaron Epps against Tennessee. But he said the remaining Tigers will manage.

“We’ll figure that out. … We can play small,” he said. “Teams have to guard you if you play small. That’s on me as a coach to figure that out. We’ll put a plan together and do as best as we can.”

Suspensions with no convictions...

Apples to oranges.. rumor is Alexander and Kiir failed drug tests, so there is proof they violated a team policy. The other two could have been minor things like skipping class.. And since you found an example that doesn't even mention what the kids did wrong, cant even compare the two.. But that is the social media current state of things, don't worry about the facts, lets just grab the rope and find the nearest tree for Izzo and Dantonio..
 
Apples to oranges.. rumor is Alexander and Kiir failed drug tests, so there is proof they violated a team policy. The other two could have been minor things like skipping class.. And since you found an example that doesn't even mention what the kids did wrong, cant even compare the two.. But that is the social media current state of things, don't worry about the facts, lets just grab the rope and find the nearest tree for Izzo and Dantonio..

So rumors work at LSU but social media is the culprit at MSU. Get your Fox News MSU Pom poms out
 
I immediately wonder reading all the reports - whose next? I seriously thought it couldn’t get any worse after Penn State.

Baylor - “Hold my beer.”

Michigan State - “Hold my keg.”
MSU is mainlining violations
 
So rumors work at LSU but social media is the culprit at MSU. Get your Fox News MSU Pom poms out

Completely different... He tried to compare MSU to a case where the facts aren't even on the table, unlike at MSU where the accusations were public knowledge. Isn't LSU the ones actually "covering it up" by hiding what the kids did wrong???
 
Completely different... He tried to compare MSU to a case where the facts aren't even on the table, unlike at MSU where the accusations were public knowledge. Isn't LSU the ones actually "covering it up" by hiding what the kids did wrong???

I guess if the only place you will get your facts is from a police report then there really isn't much to say. How many of these rape accusations had you heard about prior to the Outside the LInes Investigation where they took their information off of court documents they had to sue Michigan State to gain access to? Probably not many.

I hadn't heard of anything regarding Payne, Appling or Walton until the OTL report was released. But hey, when all you watch is Hannity and Tomi Lehren and Britt McHenry I guess not much news sinks in there.
 
I guess if the only place you will get your facts is from a police report then there really isn't much to say. How many of these rape accusations had you heard about prior to the Outside the LInes Investigation where they took their information off of court documents they had to sue Michigan State to gain access to? Probably not many.

I hadn't heard of anything regarding Payne, Appling or Walton until the OTL report was released. But hey, when all you watch is Hannity and Tomi Lehren and Britt McHenry I guess not much news sinks in there.

I had heard about the Payne/Appling accusations, that was pretty common knowledge.. I knew their football program had several kids accused, don't follow their football so couldn't have named names... I am not an MSU fan, and I knew of these things, so its not like its hidden.. all OTL did was dig up old charges that was already public knowledge.

I am sorry you are opposed to the 14th Amendment, maybe you can start a petition to get it overturned, we can start convicting people based on accusations
 
I had heard about the Payne/Appling accusations, that was pretty common knowledge.. I knew their football program had several kids accused, don't follow their football so couldn't have named names... I am not an MSU fan, and I knew of these things, so its not like its hidden.. all OTL did was dig up old charges that was already public knowledge.

I am sorry you are opposed to the 14th Amendment, maybe you can start a petition to get it overturned, we can start convicting people based on accusations

Not opposed to it. But if you are a student under scholarship at any time you can have that Scholarship revoked. Why don't you go take your 14th amendment argument to Gramm and Hollis who conveniently resigned/retired. See if it applies to them.

Clearly you are a Michigan State fan whose ass hurts over all of this. To hell with the accusers. Where are there rights? Oh wait, they could very well have made this up we don't want to listen to them. But hey, Michigan State has a pretty basketball arena and a beautiful football stadium. That Nasser thing, that Izzo thing, that Dantonio thing, that Klages thing, that Gramm thing. that Hollis thing - we have pretty things at Michigan State.

Head in the sand. Lets put up a constitutional argument but forget about the accusers who are too fearful of coming forward. Yep hug your constitution. Keep falling back on that. I am sure Fox & Friends will be there for you.
 
Not opposed to it. But if you are a student under scholarship at any time you can have that Scholarship revoked. Why don't you go take your 14th amendment argument to Gramm and Hollis who conveniently resigned/retired. See if it applies to them.

Clearly you are a Michigan State fan whose ass hurts over all of this. To hell with the accusers. Where are there rights? Oh wait, they could very well have made this up we don't want to listen to them. But hey, Michigan State has a pretty basketball arena and a beautiful football stadium. That Nasser thing, that Izzo thing, that Dantonio thing, that Klages thing, that Gramm thing. that Hollis thing - we have pretty things at Michigan State.

Head in the sand. Lets put up a constitutional argument but forget about the accusers who are too fearful of coming forward. Yep hug your constitution. Keep falling back on that. I am sure Fox & Friends will be there for you.

No, not a Michigan St fan at all... nice try

Accusers have rights, if they so choose to file a police report that is their right.. and then we as Americans let the legal system run its course, as we found out with Duke lacrosse, we don't let the media nor public opinion convict people.

And there you go again, that "Izzo thing" and that "Dantonio thing"...

In 22 years as MSU head coach, he had ONE case of sexual abuse accusations against his players, zero kids charged... And the one case thats been mentioned, the girl admitted she was stripping for the players so lets not pretend she was a little angel, who knows what really happened. Izzo ran one of the cleaner programs in NCAA basketball, but in your witch hunt you want to connect it to Nasser, guilt by association...

Dantonios program had several cases of sexual abuse, about one a year, and according to him all cases were reported to the police or the MSU office.. If you want to accuse him of recruiting questionable kids, thats fine, but stop with the dumb idea of trying to connect it to Nasser and yelling cover up as there was none based on whats been reported so far..
 
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