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Michigan State

LakeCtyNewt

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Are they quickly becoming the new Penn State? Looks like Izzy and Dantonio are soon to be history.
 
Truly disturbing how a guy like that can fly under the radar so long. I really want to give the University the benefit of the doubt, but...
 
Truly disturbing how a guy like that can fly under the radar so long. I really want to give the University the benefit of the doubt, but...

Google "Michigan State" and then read the latest Outside the Lines article from 3 hours ago. MI State has a real issue, Newt is right, Izzo and Dantonio will both be gone, it might take a month or two but they are gone. Both programs will probably end up getting hit with some serious sanctions.

It does not appear to be a matter of rumors of something that happened or 10 year later reporting by a victim where the school maybe has some grey area to try to muddy the waters with. There were multiple police reports filed with players dismissed from both programs for assault sexual or physical, over several years, it is a pattern. The one with the graduate assistant punching a woman unconscious in a bar is really bad for Izzo and the multiple women assaulted by football players is not good. The pain is just starting in Lansing.

Even with how they release information (campus police) appears to be an attempt to cover up, with redactions so bad reports were unreadable and judges ordered them to release full reports, yet at the same time Lansing police released with no redactions on their reports of the same incidents (which victims filed with Lansing police when campus police did little to help). It looks really bad.
 
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If you can stomach it:
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/19/...-abuse-timeline-usa-gymnastics-michigan-state

First assault took place in 1992. The now former president makes an appearance 22 years later, because she learned of a Title IX complaint. What's not included in this timeline is the following:
* NCAA President Mark Emert learned of 37 athlete sexual abuse cases in 2010, and nothing done.
* The subsequent findings by ESPN on the football and basketball teams.
* MSU preemptively suing ESPN to block the release of information regarding those 37 sexual abuse cases
* The now former president of MSU meeting with our Secretary of Education, then two days later Ms. Devos (Grand Rapids) rolling back Title IX protections

MSU doesn't deserve athletics. Let all athletes transfer without penalty, and those not wishing to further pursue athletics should have their tuition (wherever the choose to attend) paid for by what was the athletic budget.
 
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Dantonio might in trouble.

I don't see what Izzo did that will cost him his job, whats been reported by ESPN regarding him has been known for years..

From what I have read, it seems the bigger problem is the behavior of the players(who are adults) and why so many of these cases were never prosecuted.
 
Yes, its not an MSU problem, its a society problem

Agreed.

But where I would like to see this start to change is the ncaa growing a set and start enacting powerful sanctions against these schools that actually stick. Start taking money away and it will have a significant trickle down effect.
 
Agreed.

But where I would like to see this start to change is the ncaa growing a set and start enacting powerful sanctions against these schools that actually stick. Start taking money away and it will have a significant trickle down effect.

If the NCAA is going to tackle MSU, they need to also go through every other school looking for similar things..

Maybe I have missed something, but what I have seen, MSU has notified the police about most of the incidents, but no criminal charges were filed. How many of these athletes were found guilty of a crime? Now, if MSU was behind no charges being filed, thats a whole different ballgame..

Now I think were MSU is guilty is that they have taken some athletes over the years that were questionable, kids Michigan and Illinois have passed on.. so with that comes extra risk for this happening.
 
Yes, its not an MSU problem, its a society problem
So true, look at how criminal sentencing & punishment is being handled these days. Society has decided everyone should be given a 2nd chance, same goes with these coaches who have a vested interest in these athletes remaining eligible. It's an absolute unfunny joke.
 
Why would the MSU men's basketball coach and football coach be in trouble? Am I missing something?

Well, a lot of times when you are in charge of the program, these things occur on your watch, the buck stops there. Izzo and Dantonio both knew what was happening. School officials including the AD and president knew what was happening.

No player was expelled, suspended, or criminally charged.

So I connect the dots and it tells me Izzo and Dantonio chose wins and program prestige over doing what’s right.

They aren’t alone. But for now, it’s their turn.
 
Well, a lot of times when you are in charge of the program, these things occur on your watch, the buck stops there. Izzo and Dantonio both knew what was happening. School officials including the AD and president knew what was happening.

No player was expelled, suspended, or criminally charged.

So I connect the dots and it tells me Izzo and Dantonio chose wins and program prestige over doing what’s right.

They aren’t alone. But for now, it’s their turn.

Seems hard to hold a coach responsible if the players were never committed a crime according to the law.

It just seems crazy to read through the laundry list of MSU kids that were accused and what they did, and the talk on the media is about how the MSU Prez, AD and coaches should be fired.. but the national media ignores the real problem, no blame on the kids, parents or society.
 
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Seems hard to hold a coach responsible if the players were never committed a crime according to the law.

It just seems crazy to read through the laundry list of MSU kids that were accused and what they did, and the talk on the media is about how the MSU Prez, AD and coaches should be fired.. but the national media ignores the real problem, no blame on the kids, parents or society.

Oh I think theirs plenty of blame for the ones who actually did the acts. The administration and coaches have known about the sexual assaults and the Nassar situation since 2010. So much so that Simon met with Betsy DeVos about sexual assaults on college campus’ and he next day, DeVos loosened restrictions on the threshold of proof needed.

Further, NCAA president Mark Emmert was alerted and given police reports and evidence of rampant sexual misconduct at the school in 2010. His response? Crickets.

Bottom line is it happened on their watch. The whole “I don’t know what my kids are doing” defense is embarrassingly dumb. Someone as powerful as Izzo, similar to Joe Paterno knows what’s going on.

Those in positions of power have a split second to choose whether to use it for good or self-preservation. Which lane will they choose because in he car if Izzo he chose to not even discipline Walton, Payne, Or Appling. Why? Because those were his best players. Sense a trend?
 
Oh I think theirs plenty of blame for the ones who actually did the acts. The administration and coaches have known about the sexual assaults and the Nassar situation since 2010. So much so that Simon met with Betsy DeVos about sexual assaults on college campus’ and he next day, DeVos loosened restrictions on the threshold of proof needed.

Further, NCAA president Mark Emmert was alerted and given police reports and evidence of rampant sexual misconduct at the school in 2010. His response? Crickets.

Bottom line is it happened on their watch. The whole “I don’t know what my kids are doing” defense is embarrassingly dumb. Someone as powerful as Izzo, similar to Joe Paterno knows what’s going on.

Those in positions of power have a split second to choose whether to use it for good or self-preservation. Which lane will they choose because in he car if Izzo he chose to not even discipline Walton, Payne, Or Appling. Why? Because those were his best players. Sense a trend?

Wasn't Walton fired?

Payne/Appling- If I remember, the girl admitted taking her clothes off... and no charges were filed... What should a coach do? Supsended? kicked off team?

I am not saying it was handled perfect, but hard to throw a guy like Izzo under the bus for that based on his reputation
 
Wasn't Walton fired?

Payne/Appling- If I remember, the girl admitted taking her clothes off... and no charges were filed... What should a coach do? Supsended? kicked off team?

I am not saying it was handled perfect, but hard to throw a guy like Izzo under the bus for that based on his reputation

At least suspend. And no nothing ever happened to Walton. He never missed a day of practice and ultimately pled to a lesser charge. He isn’t still battling sexual assault and rape allegations too. He was recently put on leave for the D league team he is
Coaching Payne was dumped by Orlando’s D league team yesterday.

At the very least suspend or discipline the kids. Simply acting like none of this ever happened is the argument. When you start holding people accountable eventually they will hold the,selves accountable.
 
Coach Dantonio deserves to be fired. Look at his 2016 recruiting class and the 4 players currently waiting to stand trial for sexual assault. He recruited these guys in fact one of them before entering mich state had a battery charge for improperly touching a female student.
 
At least suspend. And no nothing ever happened to Walton. He never missed a day of practice and ultimately pled to a lesser charge. He isn’t still battling sexual assault and rape allegations too. He was recently put on leave for the D league team he is
Coaching Payne was dumped by Orlando’s D league team yesterday.

At the very least suspend or discipline the kids. Simply acting like none of this ever happened is the argument. When you start holding people accountable eventually they will hold the,selves accountable.

Walton was fired in 2010 after the second accusation
 
Walton was fired in 2010 after the second accusation

What you are missing is in the current climate regarding assault against women, that the heads of the programs will be held accountable before the avalanche of bad PR really takes a toll on the school. That is why they will be gone. It is just starting for them. Look at Mizzou, that had little to do with an sports program (outside of a 1 game boycott by the football team), but, the poor handling of that entire episode cost the school over $300mm between lower enrollment AND withheld donations/endowment money AND that was over essentially protest. Well over a hundred women were impacted that we know of SO far between the programs, doesnt matter that Bball and football had smaller numbers, they are all going to get hit the entire athletic department. Right or wrong, Izzo is in trouble also, and it was not just Walton, the sexual assault complains were there too against the recruits. Everyone in a leadership position is going to get hit.

The money of Alumni + protest will be their undoing.
 
And thats my problem, all I am hearing about is complaints and accusations with regards to football and basketball programs
 
Notre Dame had a few rapes covered up by Campus police a few years ago. Should take a look over there.
 
Yes, its not an MSU problem, its a society problem

Respectfully disagree. That’s a copout imho. There may be a societal problem to an extent, but to my knowledge there’s never been a scandal involving this many offenses in this many sports (including both majors revenue sports) including knowledge by both the AD and President and a clear attempt at coverup. The PSU scandal involved a horrific 52 minors, we’re talking close to 200 minors and students and with knowledge of many many cases by the NCAA president. This is deservedly a huge story and will do nothing but help the “societal problem”.

Izzo made some clear mistakes but he’s mostly been a good guy and role model. But Dantonio is dirtbag. This is the guy who on top of this played a star player 2 days after getting out of prison.
 
Respectfully disagree. That’s a copout imho. There may be a societal problem to an extent, but to my knowledge there’s never been a scandal involving this many offenses in this many sports (including both majors revenue sports) including knowledge by both the AD and President and a clear attempt at coverup. The PSU scandal involved a horrific 52 minors, we’re talking close to 200 minors and students and with knowledge of many many cases by the NCAA president. This is deservedly a huge story and will do nothing but help the “societal problem”.

Izzo made some clear mistakes but he’s mostly been a good guy and role model. But Dantonio is dirtbag. This is the guy who on top of this played a star player 2 days after getting out of prison.

So you think all of these kids are angels, but step onto college campuses are turn into thugs???? And this certainly isn't unique to MSU..

And before we get too gung ho over Izzo, the guy has been at MSU for 23 years, yet a lot of focus on one incident of his players being accused of something (and no charges filed), yet some want to run him out of a job???
 
There is no good answer to this question; college men will occasionally have sex. Athletes probably a little more often that the frat boys, who probably have it more than the boys in the regular dorms. I don't know how many universities I've read about that have had issues with rape/sexual assault/similar misconduct over the years. But it is a headache no matter what.

Penn State is the classic screwup. Coach busted, fire him but don't ban him, keeps coming around & problem continues. No proper police investigation occurs, covered up at all levels. Football program deserved deep penalties...

Michigan State is staring at different things....Women's gymnastics continued use of Dr. Nasser is a train wreck... But what do you do to a women's non-revenue sport? Death penalty is silly; the Penn State penalties are non-sensical, since the only people being hurt are the athletes who now lose their scholarships etc. Gymnastics probably only exists because of Title 9; do they have to start a new sport for the dead one...stupid.

But the MSU gym issues causes reporters to break out the backhoes and bulldozers, and suddenly old issues with basketball & football are suddenly being waived around in the press. Icky beyond belief. But the NCAA is aware of the issues since at least 2010...Females with complaints about sexual conduct of football & basketball players are crawling out of the woodwork everywhere...But unlike Penn State, at least these complaints have been brought to the police for investigation. How good of an investigation, open question...The mire, however, is likely to take down Izzo & Dantonio as boosters, backers & advertisers want the house cleaned...The chairman of the University Board, who if I read correctly is a Breslin, is more worried about improvements to the basketball arena with his family name on it? The mire might just suck him in and drown him as well...

But how far back will the bulldozers go? Can they go all the way back to Nick Saban? Can we get all of Alabama's championships vacated because of ancient ruins from the Saban's Sparty (or should it be the Trojan) era? Or just Saban fired? Are we looking at a repeat of Lou Holtz's early era at Notre Dame when he was worried the conflagration at Minnesota would engulf him...

Now, MSU has a bucket of smelly problems suddenly put into its primary recruiting office. Do recruits suddenly start running away? Maybe from gymnastics. From Izzo? not likely as a top coach in the country, assuming the stench doesn't force him out. From Dantonio? Maybe; his program is more up & down, and it could stain the program for out-of-state recruits. But is a damaged MSU more desireable than the MAC programs, or Indiana/Purdue? A smelly MSU is still better than the MAC programs, but the Illini/Boilers/Hoosiers might jump in front of them in the pecking order for some time...
 
And correct me if I am wrong, but Nasser while an MSU employee, his issues were with girls that were not even MSU students... not to mention, these were 12 and 13 year old girls, where the hell were the parents????

And the biggest issue is that college athletics at this level are now closer to professional sports than they should be.. and that is the core issue here, the cause of it all (minus creepy Nasser).. MSU president, AD, coaches all did what they did to protect the image of the school and its athletic program, their brand name..
 
If we want to stop all of this, pass and enforce legislation that puts every federal dollar funneled to these institutions at risk.
Penalize the entire institution, not just its athletic program.
Strengthen the penalties for violating what are now NCAA rules by making them felony crimes instead of guidelines that are arbitrarily enforced.
When all research grants, student aid, etc. begin being stripped, things would change quickly.
Hey I am all for building a federal prison for the specific purpose of housing Chancellors, University/College Presidents, Athletic Directors, Coaches, Assistant Coaches, Trainers, Boosters, Alumni, et al who oversee or engage in this line-crossing activity.
Also, ban them for life from ever being involved in athletics at any level.
Let them be treated like registered sex offenders.
Without such a deterrent, the prize of $$$ is too tempting, and no handslap action will prevent it.
The NCAA as a self governing body has proven it is nothing more than a den of thieves.
 
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If we want to stop all of this, pass and enforce legislation that puts every federal dollar funneled to these institutions at risk.
Penalize the entire institution, not just its athletic program.
Strengthen the penalties for violating what are now NCAA rules by making them felony crimes instead of guidelines that are arbitrarily enforced.
When all research grants, student aid, etc. begin being stripped, things would change quickly.
Hey I am all for building a federal prison for the specific purpose of housing Chancellors, University/College Presidents, Athletic Directors, Coaches, Assistant Coaches, Trainers, Boosters, Alumni, et al who oversee or engage in this line-crossing activity.
Also, ban them for life from ever being involved in athletics at any level.
Let them be treated like registered sex offenders.
Without such a deterrent, the prize of $$$ is too tempting, and no handslap action will prevent it.
The NCAA as a self governing body has proven it is nothing more than a den of thieves.

Pump the breaks

The only person that clearly committed a crime was just sentenced to spend the rest of his life in prison...

Some kids were accused of crimes, none charged or convicted.

Nobody associated with MSU other than Nasser committed anything close to a crime.. Didn't do their job? Probably true, but didn't commit a crime.

NCAA and IHSA are the same type of institution. if an Illinois coach or player breaks a law, the IHSA doesn't step in and hand out a punishment, either the school or law enforcement does. Same needs to be true with the NCAA, let them handle recruiting violations and promoting their sports.. let the schools and law enforcement sort the rest out.
 
Pump the breaks

The only person that clearly committed a crime was just sentenced to spend the rest of his life in prison...

Some kids were accused of crimes, none charged or convicted.

Nobody associated with MSU other than Nasser committed anything close to a crime.. Didn't do their job? Probably true, but didn't commit a crime.

NCAA and IHSA are the same type of institution. if an Illinois coach or player breaks a law, the IHSA doesn't step in and hand out a punishment, either the school or law enforcement does. Same needs to be true with the NCAA, let them handle recruiting violations and promoting their sports.. let the schools and law enforcement sort the rest out.

While you’re pumping the breaks I’ll pump the brakes.

By knowingly covering up information that can result in a conviction, that falls under the category of aiding and abetting.

The President of MSU knew of of he Nassar stuff, the Izzo stuff, the Dantonio stuff and never said boo.

The AD knew too. Didn’t do anything.

Kathy Klages, head gymnastics coach knew even more and did nothing. In fact she threatened athletes who attempted to report the misconduct.

Then we add USA gymnastics. Let’s not go there because they are even worse.

Nassar committed the crimes but was given the forum to do so by many many people.

The only thing worse than the crime is the coverup that ensues.

Many people will take the fall for this. Gram and Hollis are the first. Klages, USA gymnastics may want to find some good legal representation and consider robbing a bank. They will need both.
 
And to the point the NCAA should let the school sort it out.....the NCAA knew of the Nassar situation since 2010.

Michigan State is a member of the NCAA which governs the schools it over sees. If Michigan state cant get its stuff together someone should step in and see to it they do.

This unfortunately is tumbling dice. I’m just waiting to see who is next.
 
And correct me if I am wrong, but Nasser while an MSU employee, his issues were with girls that were not even MSU students... not to mention, these were 12 and 13 year old girls, where the hell were the parents????

And the biggest issue is that college athletics at this level are now closer to professional sports than they should be.. and that is the core issue here, the cause of it all (minus creepy Nasser).. MSU president, AD, coaches all did what they did to protect the image of the school and its athletic program, their brand name..
You are wrong. Some of the victims who made impact statements were softball, soccer, volleyball, and runners players from MSU.
 
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Dantonio might in trouble.

I don't see what Izzo did that will cost him his job, whats been reported by ESPN regarding him has been known for years..

From what I have read, it seems the bigger problem is the behavior of the players(who are adults) and why so many of these cases were never prosecuted.
Pump the breaks

The only person that clearly committed a crime was just sentenced to spend the rest of his life in prison...

Some kids were accused of crimes, none charged or convicted.

Nobody associated with MSU other than Nasser committed anything close to a crime.. Didn't do their job? Probably true, but didn't commit a crime.

NCAA and IHSA are the same type of institution. if an Illinois coach or player breaks a law, the IHSA doesn't step in and hand out a punishment, either the school or law enforcement does. Same needs to be true with the NCAA, let them handle recruiting violations and promoting their sports.. let the schools and law enforcement sort the rest out.
members of the administration allegedly covered it up! Uh...if true, that’s a crime.
 
While you’re pumping the breaks I’ll pump the brakes.

By knowingly covering up information that can result in a conviction, that falls under the category of aiding and abetting.

The President of MSU knew of of he Nassar stuff, the Izzo stuff, the Dantonio stuff and never said boo.

The AD knew too. Didn’t do anything.

Kathy Klages, head gymnastics coach knew even more and did nothing. In fact she threatened athletes who attempted to report the misconduct.

Then we add USA gymnastics. Let’s not go there because they are even worse.

Nassar committed the crimes but was given the forum to do so by many many people.

The only thing worse than the crime is the coverup that ensues.

Many people will take the fall for this. Gram and Hollis are the first. Klages, USA gymnastics may want to find some good legal representation and consider robbing a bank. They will need both.

How was it a cover up when all of the incidents that ESPN reported on involving MSU athletes were reported to either the campus police or the East Lansing police???
 

Report to LuAnn Simon that never lead to prosecution. Emails to Simon, campus police and USA Gym that were never followed through on.

Having a student charged with sexual assault and the trial never seeing light of day.

ESPN having to sue MSU for documents showing emails that were never acted upon.

How much more you want?
 
Which incidents were not reported to the police??? Now we are blaming MSU because these cases were not prosecuted??? How is that possibly their fault? From the cases that I have seen, all were turned into the proper authorities, seems like your problem is with the Michigan legal system, not MSU..

And with these incidents seem to be happening off campus, how much liability should MSU have anyway???

From what I have seen, the only thing that should cause MSU problems is if they covered up Nasser, the rest seems that its just being decided in social media.
 
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