IHSAfan207 said:

Incorporate a system that ALL schools have a sliding class placement scale both for success and demotion if certain requirements are met. So many schools are over-classed based solely on the outdated school size rule, the playoff data certainly speaks volumes on this.

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Yes! I've been howling in the wind about this for years on this board! Glad to see someone else seeing the logic of it. Be prepared for lots of naysayers and nitpickers, though.

IHSAfan207 said:

Rank all classes from 1-32 and split the brackets into an "Upper Bracket" (1-16) and a "Relegation Bracket" (17-32) per class. To discourage teams from intentionally tanking in order to play in the Relegation Bracket, implement a rule that if a team wins the Relegation Bracket, there is a 4 year ban from competing in Regelation Bracket at that class level, and would need to qualify to compete in either the Champion (see below #4), Upper Bracket, or a higher-class Relegation Bracket during that 4-year ban before being eligible again. I feel this would help reduce some of the clocked games and layout some compelling brackets from the start.

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Very interesting idea indeed! Ranking will be a challenge and lots of folks will want you to have every T crossed and I dotted on that.

IHSAfan207 said:

Incorporate strength of schedule into class placements and rankings to create a more equitable system. I admit this one may be more difficult and would be subject to opinion. However, with all the algorithms out there, someone could come up with something useful, admittedly this is beyond my brain capacity.
Example would be something like CCL 4 or 5 win teams qualify because of strength of schedule, but a conference like UEC maybe 6 or 7 win teams only.

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Again, I've been talking about this for years, but I was pilloried when I took your approach that smarter people than me can come up with the right formula. Talk with @stonedlizard about the system he has already devised.

IHSAfan207 said:

Consider a Champion Bracket where the top 12 teams in state play regardless of class. I believe other states like CA do this. This open bracket would crown the best team in IL. All other teams filter down to the Upper & Relegation Class Brackets based on placement rules. Only the Champion and Upper Brackets play in State location, Relegation brackets plays in normal course of home school games to higher seed.

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Hmmm. Now you are getting into dangerous territory. People will mock you and say that it will diminish the non Champion Bracket class championships.

IHSAfan207 said:

Create a CPS bracket, winners move to other brackets for limited amount of time before being eligible back in CPS bracket. Example 4 years with no Quarter Final appearances in other brackets allows eligibility back in CPS bracket. IMHO the CPS needs some work. Admittedly I am ignorant to all the workings of the CPS, but I see so many get clocked in the current brackets.

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The elephant in the room. No easy fix.

IHSAfan207 said:

But if you believe, like me, that the data shows there are imperfections in the IHSA playoff brackets and class placements and think the goal should be to create a more balanced playoff system I am curious your thoughts.

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I believe, more than anything, that the problem lies in a flawed enrollment-based classification system. I also believe that there are too many classes and too many qualifiers in each class. The more watered down the playoffs are with classes and enrollment-based qualifiers, the more they are susceptible to blowouts especially in 1-32 seeding.

Overall, I think your heart is in the right place on this. Thanks for taking a stab at it. Seriously, have a conversation with @stonedlizard about this. You'll be glad you did.

IHSAfan207 said:

I was working on a new post about classification and bracket ideas when this one came out.

Here were a few of my thoughts:

1. Incorporate a system that ALL schools have a sliding class placement scale both for success and demotion if certain requirements are met. So many schools are over-classed based solely on the outdated school size rule, the playoff data certainly speaks volumes on this.
   
   
2. Rank all classes from 1-32 and split the brackets into an "Upper Bracket" (1-16) and a "Relegation Bracket" (17-32) per class. To discourage teams from intentionally tanking in order to play in the Relegation Bracket, implement a rule that if a team wins the Relegation Bracket, there is a 4 year ban from competing in Regelation Bracket at that class level, and would need to qualify to compete in either the Champion (see below #4), Upper Bracket, or a higher-class Relegation Bracket during that 4-year ban before being eligible again. I feel this would help reduce some of the clocked games and layout some compelling brackets from the start.
   
   
3. Incorporate strength of schedule into class placements and rankings to create a more equitable system. I admit this one may be more difficult and would be subject to opinion. However, with all the algorithms out there, someone could come up with something useful, admittedly this is beyond my brain capacity.
   Example would be something like CCL 4 or 5 win teams qualify because of strength of schedule, but a conference like UEC maybe 6 or 7 win teams only.
   
   
4. Consider a Champion Bracket where the top 12 teams in state play regardless of class. I believe other states like CA do this. This open bracket would crown the best team in IL. All other teams filter down to the Upper & Relegation Class Brackets based on placement rules. Only the Champion and Upper Brackets play in State location, Relegation brackets plays in normal course of home school games to higher seed.
   
   
5. Create a CPS bracket, winners move to other brackets for limited amount of time before being eligible back in CPS bracket. Example 4 years with no Quarter Final appearances in other brackets allows eligibility back in CPS bracket. IMHO the CPS needs some work. Admittedly I am ignorant to all the workings of the CPS, but I see so many get clocked in the current brackets.

Obvious Rebuttals:
1. Travel could be an issue for 1 – 32 rankings. Maybe neutral sites if travel is more than 2.5 hours, gates go to home team.
2. Too Many Brackets. My response would be so what, let’s worry about getting it right, plus the Champion Bracket will crown the top dog in the State. The above ideas would only add 12 more teams total if Champion bracket was created. This might also possible allow the reduction in number classes total, maybe go to 6.

Interested in hearing some rebuttals on this, obviously if you think the IHSA Playoffs are good as is the so be it. But if you believe, like me, that the data shows there are imperfections in the IHSA playoff brackets and class placements and think the goal should be to create a more balanced playoff system I am curious your thoughts.

Click to expand...

Always enjoy hearing someone's thoughts on how to make the playoffs better.
Just for clarification, I will use 5A the class for the example. The top 16 teams compete for a 5A title and the next 16 teams compete for a 5A title? Did I miss something? So, you have 5A Gold champs and 5A Silver champs? Obviously, Gold=Upper and Silver=Relegation.

USD24 said:

love the trivia games sparty. Thanks. Was able to get 21 correct without an incorrect answer.

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I typed them in, and a couple of minutes later forgot about 15 of them

And our Season Long Contest Standings:

Snetsrak61 said:

I think you could pretty easily. I did this in a few hours of work using just copy/paste from a few IHSA website pages and excel. Put that all in a real database and you could easily expand on the metrics for either seeding or classification purposes.

My immediate thoughts are to look at CPS and CCL/ESCC schools through a unique lens. Whether a straight cap on class movement or a conference specific adjustment, those are a lot of the biggest movers (going both ways for CCL). I quite like how it moved a lot of other schools up and down. It definitely struggles on the edge cases as a lot of 8A schools just naturally get pulled down.

Click to expand...

I was working on a new post about classification and bracket ideas when this one came out.

Here were a few of my thoughts:

1. Incorporate a system that ALL schools have a sliding class placement scale both for success and demotion if certain requirements are met. So many schools are over-classed based solely on the outdated school size rule, the playoff data certainly speaks volumes on this.
   
   
2. Rank all classes from 1-32 and split the brackets into an "Upper Bracket" (1-16) and a "Relegation Bracket" (17-32) per class. To discourage teams from intentionally tanking in order to play in the Relegation Bracket, implement a rule that if a team wins the Relegation Bracket, there is a 4 year ban from competing in Regelation Bracket at that class level, and would need to qualify to compete in either the Champion (see below #4), Upper Bracket, or a higher-class Relegation Bracket during that 4-year ban before being eligible again. I feel this would help reduce some of the clocked games and layout some compelling brackets from the start.
   
   
3. Incorporate strength of schedule into class placements and rankings to create a more equitable system. I admit this one may be more difficult and would be subject to opinion. However, with all the algorithms out there, someone could come up with something useful, admittedly this is beyond my brain capacity.
   Example would be something like CCL 4 or 5 win teams qualify because of strength of schedule, but a conference like UEC maybe 6 or 7 win teams only.
   
   
4. Consider a Champion Bracket where the top 12 teams in state play regardless of class. I believe other states like CA do this. This open bracket would crown the best team in IL. All other teams filter down to the Upper & Relegation Class Brackets based on placement rules. Only the Champion and Upper Brackets play in State location, Relegation brackets plays in normal course of home school games to higher seed.
   
   
5. Create a CPS bracket, winners move to other brackets for limited amount of time before being eligible back in CPS bracket. Example 4 years with no Quarter Final appearances in other brackets allows eligibility back in CPS bracket. IMHO the CPS needs some work. Admittedly I am ignorant to all the workings of the CPS, but I see so many get clocked in the current brackets.

Obvious Rebuttals:
1. Travel could be an issue for 1 – 32 rankings. Maybe neutral sites if travel is more than 2.5 hours, gates go to home team.
2. Too Many Brackets. My response would be so what, let’s worry about getting it right, plus the Champion Bracket will crown the top dog in the State. The above ideas would only add 12 more teams total if Champion bracket was created. This might also possible allow the reduction in number classes total, maybe go to 6.

Interested in hearing some rebuttals on this, obviously if you think the IHSA Playoffs are good as is the so be it. But if you believe, like me, that the data shows there are imperfections in the IHSA playoff brackets and class placements and think the goal should be to create a more balanced playoff system I am curious your thoughts.

Assuming Ignatius is hosting to save CPS money.

I'm only interested in JCA-Naz. Naz has outcoached JCA the past few games. When JCA has been in a tight game and things aren't going well offensively the tendency is to continue to do what hasn't been working. Then, keep trying what hasn't been working. Naz has able to adapt their offense to what is being given to them by the JCA defense. I want JCA to win number 16 but I suspect that Naz will take over by the end of the 3rd Quarter. Naz by 10.

Right down to the wire in our Playoff Pick 'em Showdown.

Alliteration Fun Fact: There is no word that starts with a hard 'p' sound that is a synonym for 'competition'. So showdown it is.

I'll discuss the tie-breaker with @ignazio tonight at our tuxedo fitting. Or drop an idea here if you so choose. My idea is the total points for the 7A and 8A championships. I went with both because the number and pedigree of those fighting for our Favorite Fun Finals Photo Finish Playoff Pick 'em is impressive.

Woof.

Alexander32 said:

It is interesting that there are only two unbeaten teams in the entire 16-team field. That is an unusually low number. Fortunately, those two teams play each other in what I think is the most interesting game of the slate. I will start my television viewing early.

I agree with others that the matchup seems favorable for Althoff. Their defense is strong against the run (which is a good trait to have against Lena-Winslow), but somewhat weaker against the pass (which Lena is unlikely to exploit). Lena's defense has shown some vulnerability this year, which is not a good trait to have against an incredibly explosive Althoff offense.

And yet, Lena-Winslow's championship pedigree is so strong I just can't rule them out.

In short, I don't know who will win this game.

Click to expand...

One of the unusual things about this version of Lena-Winslow is how young they are. I know it's fairly common for smaller schools to play a fair amount of underclassmen, but L-W is very young. Only 3 senior starters on Offense, and 5 on Defense. Advantage Althoff there.

Results from Week XIII:

greatgig13 said:

My daughter was just asking me the other day what an E-Rab is.

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Rockford East “East Red and Black”

IHSAfan207 said:

Thank you for posting (and work on this), this is extremely interesting. While not perfect it certainly starts to move the bracket placements beyond the very outdated school size rule. I am curious if strength of schedule could be factored in someway, and devise a sliding scale for demotion and success for all schools.

Click to expand...

I think you could pretty easily. I did this in a few hours of work using just copy/paste from a few IHSA website pages and excel. Put that all in a real database and you could easily expand on the metrics for either seeding or classification purposes.

My immediate thoughts are to look at CPS and CCL/ESCC schools through a unique lens. Whether a straight cap on class movement or a conference specific adjustment, those are a lot of the biggest movers (going both ways for CCL). I quite like how it moved a lot of other schools up and down. It definitely struggles on the edge cases as a lot of 8A schools just naturally get pulled down.

My daughter was just asking me the other day what an E-Rab is.

It is interesting that there are only two unbeaten teams in the entire 16-team field. That is an unusually low number. Fortunately, those two teams play each other in what I think is the most interesting game of the slate. I will start my television viewing early.

I agree with others that the matchup seems favorable for Althoff. Their defense is strong against the run (which is a good trait to have against Lena-Winslow), but somewhat weaker against the pass (which Lena is unlikely to exploit). Lena's defense has shown some vulnerability this year, which is not a good trait to have against an incredibly explosive Althoff offense.

And yet, Lena-Winslow's championship pedigree is so strong I just can't rule them out.

In short, I don't know who will win this game.

Snetsrak61 said:

Also a plea:

For the love of god please behave so all my work summarizing this data isn't lost to an Edgy flush. 🙏. I do have the data backed up, but pasting it all into bite sized snips still took work.

Click to expand...

Thank you for posting (and work on this), this is extremely interesting. While not perfect it certainly starts to move the bracket placements beyond the very outdated school size rule. I am curious if strength of schedule could be factored in someway, and devise a sliding scale for demotion and success for all schools.

colin2229 said:

If the trips was supposed to all be off then that’s an illegal formation as well.

Only thing that makes sense to me is the TE was supposed to stay in for added protection.

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Youre right. Guessing tight end should've been on the opposite side. Either way brutal way to lose after you make a big play like that.

mc140 said:

Althoff is a "1a" school with the biggest Offensive line in the state title game per IHSA website.

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That's great. I'm happy for them.

love the trivia games sparty. Thanks. Was able to get 21 correct without an incorrect answer.

eagles2k3 said:

If I had to guess the Tight End was lined up on the wrong side. OR the trips bunch were all supposed to be off the line.

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If the trips was supposed to all be off then that’s an illegal formation as well.

Only thing that makes sense to me is the TE was supposed to stay in for added protection.

Ironic as Hoffman Estates had an away game at LWC and made out fine🤔 actually they made off with a few trinkets from the LWC lockers.

Also a plea:

For the love of god please behave so all my work summarizing this data isn't lost to an Edgy flush. 🙏. I do have the data backed up, but pasting it all into bite sized snips still took work.