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Q of the Week: So what's the fix?

Snetsrak61
SiuCubFan8 said:
No 4A champ anywhere? DePaul?
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Good catch. Ihsa has them listed under 2 different names on different parts of site so I didn't pick them up off the multiplier page back to enrollment. Possible I could have missed others, but can be hard to check because the IHSA multiplier page includes teams that don't sponsor football. So I have to go line by line to find any other missing ones.
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Q of the Week: So what's the fix?

Snetsrak61
Cross Bones said:
I gotta have Montini, St. Francis, Althoff, and QND in that top bracket.
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Just gotta decide if you wanna have byes. With byes a 10-12 team format makes sense. But I personally think stretching to 16 gets you too far in opening up disparities. 8, maybe 12 max makes it a "big deal" verse "we need a couple extra sacrificial lambs so we can round out 4 weeks of playoff football"

Next 8 per Massey:
St Francis
Montini
St Ignatius*
Providence*
Althoff
St Laurence
DePaul
IC*
*current non playoff qualifiers. Only CPS school in top 100 is Morgan Park who i guess is boundaried. No sign of QND on Massey ratings... So definitely some diminished returns too far past 8-10 (if the goal was done sort of open/best class)
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Q of the Week: So what's the fix?

S
Snetsrak61 said:
My off the cuff proposal would look something like:

Prep Bowl - Invitational (used Massey ratings)
1 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
2 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
3 - Chicago (Marist)
4 - LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
5 - Joliet (Catholic Academy)
6 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
8 - Chicago (Brother Rice)

Prep Bowl - Classic (next 16 qualifiers, seeded/qualified under current rules)
1 - Chicago (Whitney Young)
2 - Belleville (Althoff Catholic)
3 - Quincy (Notre Dame)
4 - West Chicago (Wheaton Academy)
5 - Palos Heights (Chicago Christian)
6 - Wheaton (St. Francis)
7 - Chicago (North Lawndale Charter)
8 - Sterling (Newman Central Catholic)
9 - Lombard (Montini)
10 - Chicago (Agricultural Science)
11 - Chicago (Simeon)
12 - Normal (University)
13 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
14 - Rockford (Lutheran)
15 - Chicago (Prosser)
16 - Burbank (St. Laurence)

Prep Bowl - Traditional (all others eligible for current prep bowl, along with boundaried CPS and non-qualifier CCL, basically same format as now, but open to additional private schools)
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No 4A champ anywhere? DePaul?
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Bears

L
Prep writer said:
I mean, they’ve lost a game to a 9-3 team on a blocked field goal. Lost to a one loss team on coaching malpractice. Lost in OT to a two loss team. Lost on a Hail Mary to an 8-5 team. Let’s not act like them beating San Fran is some far-fetched deal. They’ve had chances to win games against far superior teams and needed a bunch of bullshit to go against them for them not to win some of those games. So you can consider them winning several games on the schedule the rest of the way.
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Oh HELL NO! SF is the last game I am picking them to win. Unless of course they bear SF handily. I still feel squeamish about making this pick. I read something today that said if you made a straight up bet against the Bears in their last 65 games you would have won 70% of the picks. It's still the Bears.
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Public School Advantages

Cross Bones
HotBeer said:
Which were three notable examples

Back in 2021? They are four classifications apart. A dozen 8A teams would have beaten them. Their "culture" helped them win 9 state championships in 15 years. It has "helped" them beat teams like SHG, Simeon, St. Laurence, St. Rita, etc. over that period.


Althoff had a generation talent this season, and congratulations to them on their first title since 1990. I would certainly give creedence to the culture at the small public schools that have beaten them in the last few years, like Camp Point (1A) and Johnson City (2A).
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The 3 notables have a combined 16 state championships in football. Mt. Carmel has 16 alone. But yet, they have the same culture 🤔

Yes the same issue today existed in 2021. Loyola today has nearly 2000 students while Rochester has almost 800. Probably around a 1100 student difference and didn't look like they belonged on the same field despite having the same culture. If a dozen 8A schools (that dont have the culture) would have done that to Rochester then....it's not about the culture, it's about the talent base.

Don't know much about 1A but something tells me those publics aren't bustling with P4 players. Where just 1 can make all the difference in the world Althoff was beating 8A teams, but yes congrats to them on their first title since 1990. What's that you were saying about culture?
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Public School Advantages

L
VLight said:
Ok... If I live in Plainfield and attend St. Mary's Plainfield for grade school and want to continue my Catholic education where do I attend high school then?
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That response was to someone who said "one town, one HS team." And I said Joliet and Plainfield because they are one town, but multiple teams. I was talking about public school teams.
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Public School Advantages

H
Cross Bones said:
The post I quoted mentioned Maine South, Wheaton South, and Lincoln Way East.
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Which were three notable examples
Cross Bones said:
I watched the Loyola-Rochester game.
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Back in 2021? They are four classifications apart. A dozen 8A teams would have beaten them. Their "culture" helped them win 9 state championships in 15 years. It has "helped" them beat teams like SHG, Simeon, St. Laurence, St. Rita, etc. over that period.

Cross Bones said:
I watched the Lena Winslow-Althoff game. How did this, now apparent small school culture, help them in those games? Because I saw schools that were completely outmatched.
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Althoff had a generation talent this season, and congratulations to them on their first title since 1990. I would certainly give creedence to the culture at the small public schools that have beaten them in the last few years, like Camp Point (1A) and Johnson City (2A).
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Q of the Week: So what's the fix?

Gestalt45
Alexander32 said:
Your carefully crafted response is true, as far as it goes. However, given that there were no playoffs in 2020 due to COVID, and given that IC Catholic won the 3A championship in 2016 and 2017 (in addition to the 2022 championship you referred to), that means those two schools have won four of the last eight 3A championships. That seems fairly frequent to me.

Additionally, when considering the substance of my statement, as most fair-minded individuals would do, it should also be observed that the primary reason the two schools did not win more 3A championships during that time span is the fact that IC Catholic was busy winning the 4A title in 2018; and Montini was busy finishing second to Joliet Catholic in the 2018 5A championship game.

I stand by the statement I made.
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To quote you again- yes that is the standard order of things. We all see you cherry picking your data like we don’t all know “14 of 18” in 3 classes is only 6 years of results excluding more than half of the other classes. Your logic is specious
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Q of the Week: So what's the fix?

Cross Bones
Snetsrak61 said:
My off the cuff proposal would look something like:

Prep Bowl - Invitational (used Massey ratings)
1 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
2 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
3 - Chicago (Marist)
4 - LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
5 - Joliet (Catholic Academy)
6 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
8 - Chicago (Brother Rice)

Prep Bowl - Classic (next 16 qualifiers, seeded/qualified under current rules)
1 - Chicago (Whitney Young)
2 - Belleville (Althoff Catholic)
3 - Quincy (Notre Dame)
4 - West Chicago (Wheaton Academy)
5 - Palos Heights (Chicago Christian)
6 - Wheaton (St. Francis)
7 - Chicago (North Lawndale Charter)
8 - Sterling (Newman Central Catholic)
9 - Lombard (Montini)
10 - Chicago (Agricultural Science)
11 - Chicago (Simeon)
12 - Normal (University)
13 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
14 - Rockford (Lutheran)
15 - Chicago (Prosser)
16 - Burbank (St. Laurence)

Prep Bowl - Traditional (all others eligible for current prep bowl, along with boundaried CPS and non-qualifier CCL, basically same format as now, but open to additional private schools)
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I gotta have Montini, St. Francis, Althoff, and QND in that top bracket.
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Public School Advantages

Cross Bones
HotBeer said:
Did you even read the last sentence of the post? Ever heard of Lena-Winslow? Rochester? Camp Point? Byron? I would probably say the OPPOSITE is true - MOST schools with that culture tend to be small towns that care deeply about football.

You are making that observation because 1) Most public schools in the Chicago metro are large schools and 2) They are the ones that most frequently contend with private schools. The public suburban schools in Chicago that are below 5A tend to have enrollment issues that go well beyond football and its culture.
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The post I quoted mentioned Maine South, Wheaton South, and Lincoln Way East.

I watched the Loyola-Rochester game. I watched the Lena Winslow-Althoff game. How did this, now apparent small school culture, help them in those games? Because I saw schools that were completely outmatched.
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Public School Advantages

H
Cross Bones said:
Notice it's always larger schools that have this "culture", its almost like culture is a just a sub for large talent base.
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Did you even read the last sentence of the post? Ever heard of Lena-Winslow? Rochester? Camp Point? Byron? I would probably say the OPPOSITE is true - MOST schools with that culture tend to be small towns that care deeply about football.

You are making that observation because 1) Most public schools in the Chicago metro are large schools and 2) They are the ones that most frequently contend with private schools.
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