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SHG - What Would Their Record Be If.....

Wassup13

Wassup13

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2002
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They played this schedule.....

at Maine South
East St. Louis
at St. Rita
at De LaSalle
Leo
St. Joseph's
at St. Francis
Fenwick
Marmion
Dunbar
at Joliet Catholic
at Woodstock Marian
Geneseo

as opposed to...

at Springfield HS
at Decatur Eisenhower
Jacksonville
Decatur MacAurthur
at Lincoln
Chatham Glenwood
Springfiled Lanpher
at Springfield Southeast
Rochester
Jerseyville
Marion HS
at Taylorville
Peoria HS


I am going to say 8-4 with losses to Maine South, East St. Louis, St. Rita and JCA always seems to have their number. There may also be another loss in their from one other upset team.

What do you think???




This post was edited on 12/2 7:02 AM by Wassup13
 
All.... Other than Dunbar that schedule is vaguely familiar. What do I think? I think you need to let it go. Sigh.... Ratsy
 
Seriously Wassup, you're usually one of the more gracious posters on this board, why are you struggling with this loss so much? Your Broncos got beat by more than 2 scores in a game with 20+ mph wind and SHG lost it's 2 runningbacks to freak injuries early in the 2nd half. They basically held the ball for the whole 4th quarter with a lineman in their backfield just blocking for the QB. Just be glad you didn't get blown out. Your coach called 2 timeouts (was it 3?) at the end of the 1st quarter to keep the wind in the face of the SHG offense. That's when everyone knew even Andriano felt the Broncos had no chance.

SHG is in a closed conference. That conference has had 10 state champions in the last 10 years:

4A - (5) Rochester
5A - (4) SHG
6A - (1) SHG

Compares well to other conferences in the state.

Before they were in a closed conference,they used to play teams from all over the midwest: Indianapolis Cathedral, Memphis Whitehaven...

Before that they used to play - and regularly beat - Montini to start the season. In other threads you suggest that teams should want to play tougher teams to make them better. Wouldn't their geographic location and their conference be just another hurdle to overcome then? After all, your stud middle linebacker is from Morris. You have MILLIONS of kids to draw from.
 
Exactly where are you going with this? Are you just wondering out loud out of a sense of pure curiosity? Or do you have a different agenda?

Montini played a beast of a schedule. SHG's schedule wasn't as beastly. In the end, how much did the two schedules really matter? SHG beat Montini handily. Whatever strength of regular season schedule Montini had, and whatever playoff gauntlet Montini had to fight through to make it to the final game, weren't enough to get the Bronco close to beating SHG.
 
Originally posted by Wassup13:

They played this schedule.....

at Maine South
East St. Louis
at St. Rita
at De LaSalle
Leo
St. Joseph's
at St. Francis
Fenwick
Marmion
Dunbar
at Joliet Catholic
at Woodstock Marian
Geneseo

as opposed to...

at Springfield HS
at Decatur Eisenhower
Jacksonville
Decatur MacAurthur
at Lincoln
Chatham Glenwood
Springfiled Lanpher
at Springfield Southeast
Rochester
Jerseyville
Marion HS
at Taylorville
Peoria HS


I am going to say 8-4 with losses to Maine South, East St. Louis, St. Rita and JCA always seems to have their number. There may also be another loss in their from one other upset team.

What do you think???




This post was edited on 12/2 7:02 AM by Wassup13
Click to expand...
Wassup, unlike others in the thread, I think it is a legit question. You don't have a rep as a complainer on the board so wondering why the others felt the question had a hidden agenda of sort. I think your agenda is clear. We often ask the same about other school and the blue so...

IMO, this SHG team was not as good as last season's and I was surprised by that. All season long I had SHG ranked one place ahead of Naz, I will reverse that in my final ranking. SHG did not have the team speed I thought I might see.

As for JCA having their number, that is true. I'm not going to discredit a back-to-back champion, but I also subscribe to the theory that some teams for some reason, have plays that work better against some than others. I won't go as far as saying JCA would have won this year or last, however.

Playing that schedule, I think they lose a game somewhere. Going undefeated in the power conferences is quite a rare thing this season. That is one reason I am placing Naz ahead of SHG, now too. When you play that many tough games, star players get dinged, you are more fatigued, and you make one mistake, and suddenly you lose by 4 points. HF, LWE, Brook is the best example I can give this season.

I think they win the title, but do not go undefeated.
 
It's bad enough that SHG can't get enough respect from the teams that never see them every year, but you would think this would be the one fan base that would give them some respect. Guess it will never happen.
 
13-1 sounds right.

We know it would be better than Montini's record against those same teams because SHG was significantly better than Montini.
 
Conversely, I'm not convinced Montini goes unbeaten with SHG's schedule, and they sure as heck wouldn't have 13 running clock wins. What do either have to do with reality? Nothing. Even with a game gift wrapped for an upset with weather and injuries, SHG beat Montini handily.
 
Just my two cents...

I think SHG goes 11-2, 12-1 with Montini's schedule. Playing Maine South, East St. Louis, then St. Rita back to back to back is very daunting. I think the lose at least one of those three. I think some may be slighting how good SHG was based on their play in the title game. This Cyclones squad scored 700+ points in two straight seasons!!! Granted their schedule wasn't as tough as Montini's, the better team still won the 5A title last Saturday.

While I think Montini goes 13-0 with SHG's schedule. Montini would have breezed through the CS8 this year. Remember, Jacksonville was down, as was Glenwood, and while Rochester won state in 4A they still got clocked by SHG this year. I think Montini has no trouble with MacArthur or Springfield Southeast either, both of which had solid seasons.

This post was edited on 12/2 9:11 AM by guerinfbfan
 
I say 13-1. No way they get pounted by Franks like MCHS did. Only loss coming to MS.
 
I would have SHG at 12-1 and Montini 13-0 heading into 5A final with SHG winning pretty much exactly the same.
 
I think SHG would have faired just fine with the Montini sked. Take this into account for a second, the area that SHG gets their kids from and the area that Montini pulls from.

When you look at that it makes what shg has done all the more impressive. And Ken Leonard is a pretty damn good coach too. SHG was better than a Montini team this year that was in somewhat of a rebuild mode. They were much better than Montini last year when the Broncos were pretty damn good. If they do it next year it would be even more impressive considering they lose Green.

Clearly Wassup you don't respect SHG for some reason that no one but you can explain.
 
This is very true Newt, but SHG does get the pick of the litter in the greater Springfield area. Don't feel sorry for them. :)
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by Tapers:
It's bad enough that SHG can't get enough respect from the teams that never see them every year, but you would think this would be the one fan base that would give them some respect. Guess it will never happen.
Click to expand...
tappers, with 2 posts...i'm not sure you stand ready to judge 15 years of posts on the board. A large large group of posters here are pro-shg - including me.


The fact that I predicted a 13-1 record - every team in the state would want that record.
 
Playing Montini's schedule I see 13-1 for SHG. They would beat Maine South. Heck if not for a meltdown at the end Montini would have beat MS and we all know that SHG was clearly better than Montini. SHG beats ESL no problem. PND beat them in the playoff and while PND was very good, SHG was better. Playing St Rita on the heels of those first two games, that might have been the game that they stumbled on. I don't think St Rita was necessarily better than SHG though.
Those who only saw SHG play once this year, against Montini, did not see them at their best. I saw them play quite a bit this year. I'll say this, if SHG were to play Montini again in a couple of weeks and were at full strength I would be willing to bet on SHG and give15 points to Montini. I would expect SHG to beat them by 21-28 points in a rematch.
 
Originally posted by mchsalumni:
This is very true Newt, but SHG does get the pick of the litter in the greater Springfield area. Don't feel sorry for them. :)

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
All.... No sir you are 100% incorrect. Studs galore all over town (at other schools) especially Rochester just a few minutes on the other side of town with Springfield addresses no less. Ratsy P.S. Please let it go.....
 
I have little doubt in my mind that Springfield Southeast has the biggest and fastest players in the area. I've watched them for several years against SHG and Rochester, and with a coach like Derek Leonard they would be an extremely scary team year in and year out. They've lacked a strong program and an empowered coach for a long time. The public school district doesn't help matters with the rotating coaching door. In a single year, Matt Lauber has seeded the program with what it will take to compete in conference and in the post-season. It'll be interesting to see if Lauber can stick around.
 
My people in the Patch say they are reviled. Which is normal territory for us folks up north, so no issue there.

As far as respect for SHG, I think the only time I've ever seen something close to disrespect toward SHG was questioning how they would do against the Montini schedule. Hardly disparaging, though it seems Wassup is not pleased with the loss. As for me, I say the better team won. End of story.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Yes, I am upset with the loss but I know SHG was the better team.

I was just posing this question not to make a point but rather to ask people on the board how SHG would fare against a Chicagoland schedule with teams from all classes. I really know nothing about the teams SHG faces on their schedule since they are all downstate.

I also wanted to find out how everyone felt SHG would fare facing teams you really have to game plan/prepare for each week instead of really just preparing for week 8 against Rochester and week 14 against the 5A north bracket champ,

Nothing was meant to discredit what SHG has done. They are a great program. I would really like to see them play a ESCC or CCL schedule week in and week out because I think it would be fun to watch.

Last, how would SHG fare playing in the CCL Blue with Provi, Mt. Carmel, Loyola, St. Rita and Brother Rice? Where would you rank SHG along with them?

Wassup





This post was edited on 12/3 7:05 AM by Wassup13
 
Except you posted about their "soft" schedule in the 3 separate threads...repeatedly.
 
The topic of SHG and the long list of achievements are not given proper credit on a Chicago based, Catholic League based website that does not accept as fact anything that happens outside of "THE" league play. Years of downstate attempts from programs that would get equal billing have been beaten down here before. SHG is the best program in the State of Illinois...fact. And yet when debating the issue here, if you are outside of 8A and 7A blue blooded teams, it is not possible to get the earned respect teams should with constant review of schedules coming to the forefront. This action constantly deflects "outsider" comments, to the point of making the board a view only site for many.
 
This is why I love the success factor to see how and SHG and Montini do in 6-7A.
 
Originally posted by WIU78:
The topic of SHG and the long list of achievements are not given proper credit on a Chicago based, Catholic League based website that does not accept as fact anything that happens outside of "THE" league play. Years of downstate attempts from programs that would get equal billing have been beaten down here before. SHG is the best program in the State of Illinois...fact. And yet when debating the issue here, if you are outside of 8A and 7A blue blooded teams, it is not possible to get the earned respect teams should with constant review of schedules coming to the forefront. This action constantly deflects "outsider" comments, to the point of making the board a view only site for many.
Click to expand...
Not agreeing or disagreeing, but what makes you state this as a fact? I feel like a lot of programs could have very strong arguments with this.
 
I don't see 6A being any tougher overall than 5A. Some years id argue it's actually weaker. SHG has been a borderline 5A/6A school for a while now, having won 6A in 2008 with a team no better than their teams that won 5A.
 
Looking at the rugged schedule that Montini has played in recent years and how they have fared, I would think they will be pretty successful in 6A. As for SHG, there has been two seasons previously in which they have competed in 6A, the 2007-2008 seasons. In 2007 they drew Providence Catholic in round 1 and lost 28-20. In 2008 they won the 6A State Title and beat Providence Catholic on the road in the Semifinals. I think they will compete pretty well in 6A too.
 
sixersball:

I absolutely pick SHG in 6A to if they switch place with Naz. however if meeting Naz in title game I literally have no clue that is such a toss up.
 
Just need to put my 2 cents in here. SHG- great football team! Best in the state? They have the trophy, so yes, on paper they are the champions.
The problem many still have with this isn't so much with SHG, it's the system. The SHG posters feel they don't have the respect they deserve. The North bracket personnel don't think the southern bracket has any competition in order to even get to the coveted dance. Based on what we all saw, there is no way that SHG would running clock 13 straight teams in the North Bracket. Just no way. Green was sacked only 1 time in 13 games? A "down" montini defense was even able to get to him. 12 other teams in the southern bracket weren't able to do that. That's pretty telling. And yes, playing weaker teams does make a huge difference come play off time in terms of having healthy players. I don't think it's a coincidence or "freak accident" that 3 SHG players go down in 1 physically challenging game. A freak accident is when a plane from Midway slams into your house while you are asleep. That's a freak accident. Montini made many mistakes, and SHG benefitted from that and won . A down 5a north team loses by 2 touchdowns to a team that had previously destroyed everyone in their path - which is why so many people ? the integrity of the system. That's just the way football goes sometimes folks. SHG has a great winning tradition - outstanding coaches and a loyal fan base. They will continue to dominate the southern bracket for many years to come. Who from the North will be ready for them next year- we shall see.
 
I think your observations are pretty inaccurate here. Having watched HS football for several decades I know that most injuries tend to be fluky in nature and are not caused by physicality. SHG losing both of their running backs in the game had nothing to do with the physicality of Montini. If you have the game on video see for yourself. The injury to #28 was especially freaky. He had just scored a TD and was 4 yards deep in the endzone when the injury occurred. I probably see as many injuries when teams are playing weak opponents as strong opponents.

As for Montini's mistakes, SHG made mistakes too. They put the ball on the ground twice in the first quarter. I would also ask anyone who watched the game if all the picks Montini threw were "mistakes" by them or if at least a couple of them could be attributed to good defense by SHG. I know on one of the picks the SHG LB #52 was reading the QB all the way and followed his eyes right to the throwing lane. Another pick was the result of a defender getting a hand on the ball and defecting it to a teammate. The last pick thrown was desperation time in the final minutes when the Montini QB threw into double coverage but the game was already lost at that point.

If not for the fluky injuries to the two running backs SHG likely wins by 21-28 points.
 
I am having trouble following these posts or what purpose they serve. It is not as if the last two Montini SHG games were close. Last year SHG took the Montini defense, which was a strength of last years team, out of the game. This year SHG was clearly the better all around team. Montini lost to a better team that so happens to have a weaker schedule than Montini. That does not lessen SHG's win against Montini, nor does it mean that SHG kids had an advantage over Montini because they were healthy going into the game. That is Football. If you are injury free you have an advantage. Injuries occur no matter who or what schedule you are playing, I would guess as many injuries occur at practice, at the hands of your own team mates, as in a game. It is time to move on.
 
Agree to disagree Jack. I've been watching fball for decades as well, and one thing I do know, is that if I were in Vegas right now, I'd bet my entire wallet that they odds of getting injured in a football game increase exponentially when the competition level goes up. Heck, I could pull a groin muscle wrestling my 18 year old nephew, but the odds of that happening if I wrestled my other nephew that happens to be a pseudo body builder, well let's just say that the odds are increased 10 fold . I also don't buy the " if not for the fluky injuries to the running back" comment. All I said was that SHG benefitted from Montini's mistakes. I didn't throw in the " if montini would have had no interceptions or dropped passes they would have won by 21-28." Anyone who has watched games for decades knows that is a silly way to look at the game of football.
My prior post was plainly referring to the questionable integrity of the current football system- not the integrity of SHG or it's players abilities.
 
Just for the record, SHG was not "fully healthy" all year or coming into the game. One of their best skill position players, maybe the fastest, was injured earlier in the season and was out for the rest of the year.
 
Montini is a great program. I don't know if we will ever see anyone win 4 titles in a row or make the championship game 6 times in a row again like they have. Coach Andriano is nothing but class in victory or defeat. I know the Montini coaches and most of their players won't make excuses about losing the game. They will just vow to work harder and come back stronger next year.
Having said that I just don't understand why a few Northern football fans have to come on here and on one side of their mouth say that they have a ton of respect for SHG then out of the other corner of their mouth attempt to diminish what they've been able to accomplish by nit picking about such things as injuries or who had the tougher road. As broncofan said, let it go.
 
Originally posted by sixersball:
Just for the record, SHG was not "fully healthy" all year or coming into the game. One of their best skill position players, maybe the fastest, was injured earlier in the season and was out for the rest of the year.
Click to expand...
All... Yes, a "specialist" that played on both sides of the ball who was called upon only in certain situations. Before the season started in my opinion ( a lowly rodents one fwiw) he was and still is the most dynamic Cyclone on the team. Ratsy
 
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