Why hasn't public/private never been put up for a member wide vote? People want to either put it to an end, separate etc. so why not just vote and be done with it?
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
OK so let's poke the Bear....
- Thread starter EdgyTim
- Start date
Educate me... in any of the states where they are separated are the private’s still a division of the public state organization (ie - IHSA)? The few states I know off the top of my head such as Texas, the private’s formed their own association (ie - Texas Assoc of Private and Parochial Schools TAPPS). Assuming this would happen here, the powers that be in the IHSA office would have to be willing to 1) give up any revenue these private’s currently generate and 2) both due to lack of need from being a smaller agency and the reduced income the agency would have to shrink (ie - reduce staff). Are they going to let a vote go out to the members that may reduce the home office staff and revenue? Human nature says no.
We know how people on this board feel as it pertains primarily to football. This would be an all sports decision. Do we know what the population at large thinks about it in the multitude of sports?
Perhaps the powers that be are smart enough to think about the unintended consequences that most overlook. If the private’s start their own association and the private’s are no longer under IHSA rule the private’s dont have to abide by IHSA rules. The new private association may have rules against recruiting current students away from other private members but they aren’t going to address recruiting public HS students to the private. As is now the IHSA can sanction the private, they lose that power in the above scenario.
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It has to be both or none. Unless you are going to have all teams make the playoff like other sports otherwise it would be too hard to determine qualifiers with some schools playing more public teams than others... plus if the IHSA wants to kick private’s out why would you do them the honor of playing them?
Private schools would have to be broken up into one class, possibly two...I mean how many private schools qualified for the playoffs last year state wide? MC, LA, BR, Naz, Montini, JCA, IC, Iggy, Benet, Marist, Bishop Mac, ND.....that’s 12, I know I’m missing more then a few but I’m not sure how it would work. I’m not against it, especially if districts go through, but it would definitely be a huge change. I know Texas does it but they have hundreds more private schools then Illinois.
Texas allows private’s to opt into the public association if they volunteer to play in the largest class regardless of size. 2 schools do this, Dallas Jesuit and Strake Jesuit (Houston). You would almost have to get the biggest like Loyola to agree to do that (for football at least) and then take the rest and split in half... something like division 1 everyone over 650 and division 2 everyone under 650 or something like that. Certainly can’t be one class with Aurora Christian playing Loyola.
We don't really use the vote function much. I don't know if I'm for separation or not, but I do know that's the only way to address that particular issue (if one sees it as an issue).
If I were in favor, only playoffs. Teams schedule who they want in non-con. If they want a competitive game they schedule it.
Am I missing something or are the playoffs really the only reason you would separate the schools.
Yeah, just playoffs. Schools generally play competitive non-con games. For example Montini knows where they belong when it comes to non-con, they play Palatine, Loyola, LWE, Maine South, ESL etc. It's only a problem when the playoffs start and the mismatches happen.
Well then let’s just stop having classifications based on school size and let some panel make subjective decisions based on how good they think a team is... that sounds like a great plan! We can get it down to 3 classes... 3A equals elite teams, 2A equals good teams, 1A equals the average teams that barely qualified for the playoffs.
Enrollment classification makes sense for boundried schools in relation to each other.
I would do it for a six figure salary with the IHSA. I would also have no problem bumping public schools that repeatedly get move ins or don't really have boundaries.
Your so right. It shouldn’t be easier when you get to the playoffs or Championship game but sometimes it happens with the Private’s and enrollment numbers.
Rochester
Private school supporters who cry about their team not being in 3a/4a/5a due to their enrollment being the same as Peotone.
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
Because the only people that complain about it are on this board. The administrators on the IHSA Board obviously think that being part of the IHSA is more advantageous then being independent.
There are just two scenarios for such a vote.
The first scenario is if the private schools were to "vote" among themselves to leave and start their own separate athletic association. That wouldn't be a vote within the IHSA, but it would be a vote about the IHSA. Why hasn't it happened? I can think of a couple of reasons.
The first falls under the "be careful what you wish for" axiom. As problematic and discriminatory as the IHSA has been for and to private school members, there is value to the benefits that they offer to member schools. Duplicating those services/benefits in a private school athletic association would be no small task and would require no small financial investment.
The second is related to a lack of organization and communication. Private schools value their independence. Indeed, many private schools choose to refer to themselves as independent schools. There is a regional association of independent schools, headquartered in Chicago, but the vast majority of private schools in Illinois don't belong to it. There is no statewide organization of Illinois private schools that I am aware of. Private school administrators just don't get together in large group settings to communicate and share concerns that impact them all.
This is very different from public school administrators who are generally more active in the programs offered by the NEA, the IEA, Illinois Principals Assocaion, the Illinois Deans Assocation, etc. They see each other at meetings that these organizations sponsor. They socialize with each other at those meetings at the end of the day. They develop professional networks that are generally more robust than those of private school administrators.
The second scenario would be if the public school members of the IHSA were to vote to become an assocation of exclusively public school members. Actually, I think this scenario is far more interesting than the first.
Why hasn't that happened? I really don't know. There certainly seems to be enough dislike of private schools among the majority of public school members within the IHSA. I think if there would be such a vote that it would pass easily. In some respects, I'm sort of surprised it hasn't happened yet.
So that begs the question of why it hasn't made it to a vote. Is it as simple as no member school has proposed it? Or has it been proposed only to be quashed in the legistaltive committee? Perhaps, in this era of inclusivity, the public schools don't want to be viewed as being exclusive. It would definitely be a tricky vote to manage from a PR fallout perspective.
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you might want to fix those opponents as of late. Seems like Coach A knew where they belonged.
You might want to review Montini's regular season opponents last year that included two 8A finalists and that included a W over the 8A state champ. Although I'm not wild about the Montini vs. Hyde Park and CTK games, Coach A never had to play a CCL Blue regular season schedule.
I do see where the Broncos are opening at Hudson (WI) High School next year. Hudson is a school of 1800 kids that finished last season at 7-3.
Student athletes just want to be allowed to play. The adults who run the IHSA have always seemed more interested in legislating parity and in who can't play.
While you construct your grand new Catholic conference, do you think any Loyola football player gives a damn?
I'm not constructing anything, grand or otherwise. Districts have made that all a moot point.
You're not constructing anything at the moment, is probably a better way to phrase that. All I'm saying is that every time this debate comes up, the only thing anyone seems to ever care about is what the adults want, and not what the players want.
And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Loyola players didn't want to play Lincoln-Way East, and maybe the Lincoln-Way East players didn't want to play Loyola - but I think we all doubt that.
I'm just glad those high school athletes got to play in a great game, in a great atmosphere without the egos of the adults, and petty arguments about recruiting and multipliers getting in the way.
I understand what you are driving at. If you are going to ask the players for their input on separating private schools from the IHSA, then let's also ask for their input about multipliers, recruiting radii, success factors, transfer rules, etc...
Me too. The problem is, there are only so many straws that the private school camel can carry on its back. One of these days, the IHSA will add one straw too many and you'll be sorry you preferred to look the other way while all the previous straws were being loaded.
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Based on everything I've posted in this thread, what would lead you to believe that I wouldn't want input from the players on a variety of topics?
Could you, specifically, just stop this nonsense? Anyone who has posted or lurked on this message board has seen that you for years have railed on this to absolute no avail. You've even come up with your own idea for a conference and divisions, and I'm guessing you did that for no one but the amusement of yourself and the few that agree with you. I'm also guessing that you've never once seriously looked into joining some kind of group to put that together, nor have spoken to any CCL official to get something like this started.ramblinman said:
You're an adult, shouting at the rain, ruining everyone's good time.
I don't believe that at all. I'm simply saying that if you want their input about separating private schools from the IHSA, then let's open it up to ask them about other issues as well.
Lighten up, Francis.
For the record, I didn't start this thread. Edgy started it. He even entitled it in such a way as to imply that he was looking for spirited posts. I responded to Edgy's initial post, and received likes for my response from several people, including Edgy.
You are the one who elected to goad me in to further posts about the public/private issue. Why, if not for your own amusement? I took your bait because it amused me to do so. I say what I say here mostly for my own amusement. Why would anyone post here if they didn't enjoy it?
I'm a fan, not an administrator. People rail on things all the time here...most of the time to no avail. Do you really think I'm going to stop because you and others don't like it? If you don't like it, TS. The web is a big place; go somewhere else if you don't like people railing here. You could also activate the ignore feature, or just bite your tongue and don't provoke people if you don't like it when they take your bait.
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The real irony is he rails on you for partaking in this forum as a parent and/or fan... of all the possible contingents, if there is any group who should stay away from these forums it is officials (I assume it’s not a reach to extrapolate “stripes” is an official). He might be showing that he doesn’t have the temperament or thick skin to be effective; as he’s oftly worried about what he himself thinks is nonsense.
Now that the White Sox have won a World Series in my lifetime, I have only one remaining sports dream: the private schools leave the IHSA and establish their own association free from the misconceptions and bias of those (mostly downstate) stumble-bums in the IHSA.
If you asked the Loyola players who they would want to play they would respond like most kids and say area teams like new trier,glen brooks,Stevenson,warren,main south,notredame etc
True. Which why I like the district concept as it specifically applies to Loyola.
However, if the anti private school bias within the IHSA gets to the point of being too onerous (some would argue we passed that point long ago), then I wouldn't blame Loyola and other private schools if they were to decide to go their own way.
Districts will be good for some and bad for others,teams like Loyola,Maine south,notredame,Barrington Stevenson,warren will get to have some great regular season games.Now Loyola plays tough schedule but others do not.
