Neuqua 13 Maine South 14 F

[NapervilleBuck]

If your definition of crappy field is anything that is not turf, then no argument here.

For a grass field, that was far from crappy. For a November game, grass looked great. I don't recall any bare spots or muddy sections the refs try to avoid when placing the ball which is what you would expect this time of year.

Slips and falls on cuts, they happen on grass when you aren't used to playing on grass. If all you ever do is practice and play on turf, you're going to have those plays.

Spend some time watching football outside Chicago and the collar counties and you'll see grass playing surfaces of all conditions and most not as nice as that field Saturday night. (maybe the exagerated crown is the answer )

Considering all of the precip we received TH/FR I thought the field was in pretty decent shape. I have definitely seen it worse. Regardless, great game between two pretty good teams. Best of luck to MS this weekend.

 

[Bwm57]

Couple areas to comment on for both you and MSFB123.....

1. Crappy field yes...I still cannot believe 2 Naperville schools do not have turf. But, you guys lost to Palatine on turf and NV shut them out at their home. So no, the evidence says turf would've helped NV.
2. Just because you "were up most of the game" is irrelevant. You gave up 2 TD's in the 4th Quarter. NV should've tied the game and missed an extra point from a kicker that has a full ride to Western Michigan who had only missed one other extra point all season. You got lucky. Period. You should be tiptoeing away from that game.
3. You drove the ball down at the end (2 min left) and NV stopped you when it mattered. You gave them a chance to win and they shouldn't even have had that chance. Saying you're the "better team" is just an assertion with little evidence. Yes, you won. But as Ska said, the best team doesn't always win.
4. NV took a sack yes. but frankly, I blame NV coaching for not prepping his team to have a play in their back pocket since that took 40 seconds off the clock.
5. MS clearly out-coached NV and that was the difference in the end. This has been NV's jugular over and over again which is why everyone always underestimates them.
6. The INT at the end of the 1st half was a huge difference in the game. But MM was not hurried on that play and he just forced the throw. But yes, MS gets credit for catching it in the end zone.
7. Yes, it's rhetorical and just all post-mordem chatter and MS won fair and square. I am rooting for you guys. I am so sick and tired of the Catholic League teams dominating every year. They recruit and pull athletes from 30 miles around and dress 100+ players and I seriously hope you demolish Marist and then those d bags from Loyola. I greatly respect your tradition, your swagger, your coaching, your feeder programs and the consistent success you've managed despite having the constraint of boundaries. Go Hawks! (Wheaton North 7A Champ & Maine South 8A CHamp would be awesome)

Lockport ok too??

 

[MS4EVER]

If your definition of crappy field is anything that is not turf, then no argument here.

For a grass field, that was far from crappy. For a November game, grass looked great. I don't recall any bare spots or muddy sections the refs try to avoid when placing the ball which is what you would expect this time of year.

Our sideline was pretty soupy. But then again the older I get the softer I get. Probably the case. LOL

 

[Alexander32]

How positively Christian of you Drew.

This is what "dominating" looks like. Looking only at classes 8A through 5A, there are nine conferences in the state that have placed four or more teams in the semifinals over the last seven years. Here is the list.

1. CCL/ESCC (Blue) - 15 teams
2. CCL/ESCC (Green) - 9
3. Fox Valley - 7
4. CCL/ESCC (Orange) - 6
5. Southwest Suburban (Blue) - 4
6. Southwestern - 4
7. DuKane - 4
8. North Suburban - 4
9. Southland - 4

The top two conferences and three of the top four are comprised of Catholic schools. When considering the fact that the three CCL/ESCC conferences listed above have only four teams in each of them, that represents quite a concentration of football power.

Notes:
1) The information presented above is based on the current membership in each conference.
2) For purposes of ranking conferences 5 through 9 above, the tie was broken based on the number of championships won in the last seven years, and then the number of 8A championships.

 

[dapiech]

How positively Christian of you Drew.

My comment was in jest. However, what you have just done in identifying an individual and attacking them personally is inappropriate and the post should be removed.

 

[ska549]

This is what "dominating" looks like. Looking only at classes 8A through 5A, there are nine conferences in the state that have placed four or more teams in the semifinals over the last seven years. Here is the list.

1. CCL/ESCC (Blue) - 15 teams
2. CCL/ESCC (Green) - 9
3. Fox Valley - 7
4. CCL/ESCC (Orange) - 6
5. Southwest Suburban (Blue) - 4
6. Southwestern - 4
7. DuKane - 4
8. North Suburban - 4
9. Southland - 4

The top two conferences and three of the top four are comprised of Catholic schools. When considering the fact that the three CCL/ESCC conferences listed above have only four teams in each of them, that represents quite a concentration of football power.

Notes:
1) The information presented above is based on the current membership in each conference.
2) For purposes of ranking conferences 5 through 9 above, the tie was broken based on the number of championships won in the last seven years, and then the number of 8A championships.

Innocently replying with literally ZERO “F’s” given, but I mean I don’t understand why anyone argues AGAINST or FOR the Catholic schools “prominence…”
I mean the ACTUAL fact is that Catholic schools recruit, have no borders, actually PAY players (scholarships), etc etc…
If they ARENT dominant than they are idiots. But they ARE. Always have been always will be. It’s NOT a “level playing field.” I don’t care who CHIMES IN and talks about “schools size and enrollment, blah blah blah…”. If ANYONE thinks that it is FAIR for these teams to HAND PICK their teams REGARDLESS of their “small enrollment,” than they are crazy.
Go tell the conferences (in college) that they can ONLY allow players on their teams who live in their state. Then, let them, and every other conference know that the SEC can choose whoever they want.. also place the same TIGHT restrictions on players “moving” into their state…. And does ANYONE ACTUALLY think that this would be an unbelievably tilted advantage? If you don’t, your either an idiot or just being argumentative . YES THE CATHOLIC SCHOOLS DOMINATE!!! ACTUALLY BIG ****ING DEAL!!!! THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD!!!!!! I mean shit man what’s there to attack OR defend? It’s actually NOT really even worth discussion. Whatever. I’m in a bad mood.

 

[missingwalter]

Innocently replying with literally ZERO “F’s” given, but I mean I don’t understand why anyone argues AGAINST or FOR the Catholic schools “prominence…”
I mean the ACTUAL fact is that Catholic schools recruit, have no borders, actually PAY players (scholarships), etc etc…
If they ARENT dominant than they are idiots. But they ARE. Always have been always will be. It’s NOT a “level playing field.” I don’t care who CHIMES IN and talks about “schools size and enrollment, blah blah blah…”. If ANYONE thinks that it is FAIR for these teams to HAND PICK their teams REGARDLESS of their “small enrollment,” than they are crazy.
Go tell the conferences (in college) that they can ONLY allow players on their teams who live in their state. Then, let them, and every other conference know that the SEC can choose whoever they want.. also place the same TIGHT restrictions on players “moving” into their state…. And does ANYONE ACTUALLY think that this would be an unbelievably tilted advantage? If you don’t, your either an idiot or just being argumentative . YES THE CATHOLIC SCHOOLS DOMINATE!!! ACTUALLY BIG ****ING DEAL!!!! THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD!!!!!! I mean shit man what’s there to attack OR defend? It’s actually NOT really even worth discussion. Whatever. I’m in a bad mood.

and yet, Public schools have won 8A seven of the last ten times.

 

[NDSox]

Innocently replying with literally ZERO “F’s” given, but I mean I don’t understand why anyone argues AGAINST or FOR the Catholic schools “prominence…”
I mean the ACTUAL fact is that Catholic schools recruit, have no borders, actually PAY players (scholarships), etc etc…
If they ARENT dominant than they are idiots. But they ARE. Always have been always will be. It’s NOT a “level playing field.” I don’t care who CHIMES IN and talks about “schools size and enrollment, blah blah blah…”. If ANYONE thinks that it is FAIR for these teams to HAND PICK their teams REGARDLESS of their “small enrollment,” than they are crazy.
Go tell the conferences (in college) that they can ONLY allow players on their teams who live in their state. Then, let them, and every other conference know that the SEC can choose whoever they want.. also place the same TIGHT restrictions on players “moving” into their state…. And does ANYONE ACTUALLY think that this would be an unbelievably tilted advantage? If you don’t, your either an idiot or just being argumentative . YES THE CATHOLIC SCHOOLS DOMINATE!!! ACTUALLY BIG ****ING DEAL!!!! THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD!!!!!! I mean shit man what’s there to attack OR defend? It’s actually NOT really even worth discussion. Whatever. I’m in a bad mood.

Naperville Central.

Those hard borders are a killer. Don't kid yourself about top line public schools being limited by borders. Funny how a lot of top players transfer among public schools both from privates and other publics.

 

[mantle2626]

Naperville Central failed to complete proper IHSA transfer paperwork for at least 7 athletes, emails reveal

After a conference rival tipped off the IHSA that Naperville Central had an ineligible player on its football team, Naperville Central discovered at least six additional transfers who didn't have proper IHSA documentation and the fallout continues more than three months later.

www.shawlocal.com

 

[mantle2626]

I am sure this only happens at this one school......

 

[Alexander32]

Innocently replying with literally ZERO “F’s” given, but I mean I don’t understand why anyone argues AGAINST or FOR the Catholic schools “prominence…”
I mean the ACTUAL fact is that Catholic schools recruit, have no borders, actually PAY players (scholarships), etc etc…
If they ARENT dominant than they are idiots. But they ARE. Always have been always will be. It’s NOT a “level playing field.” I don’t care who CHIMES IN and talks about “schools size and enrollment, blah blah blah…”. If ANYONE thinks that it is FAIR for these teams to HAND PICK their teams REGARDLESS of their “small enrollment,” than they are crazy.
Go tell the conferences (in college) that they can ONLY allow players on their teams who live in their state. Then, let them, and every other conference know that the SEC can choose whoever they want.. also place the same TIGHT restrictions on players “moving” into their state…. And does ANYONE ACTUALLY think that this would be an unbelievably tilted advantage? If you don’t, your either an idiot or just being argumentative . YES THE CATHOLIC SCHOOLS DOMINATE!!! ACTUALLY BIG ****ING DEAL!!!! THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD!!!!!! I mean shit man what’s there to attack OR defend? It’s actually NOT really even worth discussion. Whatever. I’m in a bad mood.

The objective of the post was not to argue for or against the Catholic schools. It was merely to provide some interesting information. I never went to a Catholic/private school. My children never went to a Catholic/private school. My daughter did teach at St. Francis in Wheaton for eleven years, but now teaches at Batavia. I have no bias one way or the other.

While it is true some of the very best conferences in the state, from top to bottom, are Catholic school conferences, there are considerably more public school conferences. Consequently, over the same seven-year period of time referred to in the earlier post, 65% of the 5A through 8A state championships were won by public schools. It seems both public schools and private schools have a reasonable chance to succeed.

 

[Alexander32]

I might add that a secondary purpose of the earlier post was to explain why some people root against the Catholic schools in Chicagoland high school football. Whenever power concentrates, no matter the area in life, there is a natural tendency in individuals to resist (even if only in their own minds). That is why people have a natural tendency to root for underdogs in sporting events, unless of course they have some association with the favorite. So, in explaining why "dapiech" wrote: "I am sick and tired of the Catholic League teams dominating every year", I thought it would be useful to illustrate one aspect of that domination. I understand he later said his comment was in jest, but there is no question some who have posted on this site have occasionally expressed resentment towards the Catholic schools. That is to be expected given the level of football played in the CCL/ESCC.

Having said all of the above, I will once again express my view that the public schools have a reasonable opportunity to win state football championships.

 

[dapiech]

I might add that a secondary purpose of the earlier post was to explain why some people root against the Catholic schools in Chicagoland high school football. Whenever power concentrates, no matter the area in life, there is a natural tendency in individuals to resist (even if only in their own minds). That is why people have a natural tendency to root for underdogs in sporting events, unless of course they have some association with the favorite. So, in explaining why "dapiech" wrote: "I am sick and tired of the Catholic League teams dominating every year", I thought it would be useful to illustrate one aspect of that domination. I understand he later said his comment was in jest, but there is no question some who have posted on this site have occasionally expressed resentment towards the Catholic schools. That is to be expected given the level of football played in the CCL/ESCC.

Having said all of the above, I will once again express my view that the public schools have a reasonable opportunity to win state football championships.

The point is not whether public schools have a reasonable opportunity to win in any given year, but rather when you can recruit from 30 miles around your school with no boundaries, you have a far higher chance of being good year in and year out with more consistent and sustainable success. This is why someone from a public school would put Catholic League (private) schools in a different category when comparing success over the long haul.

Also, fact-check me on this, but Catholic league schools often dress far more players as a % of their enrollment and therefore have more depth on their teams every year. Maybe it's because the coaches are better at convincing kids to play football, but it's at least reasonable to assume that they have an advantage since players can come there from other suburbs and cities to play for them and aren't susceptible to downturns in enrollment due to not having boundaries. For example, I hear there will be a string of years coming in the Wheaton school district where enrollment will be drastically reduced and could even drop WWS down to 6A. Less enrollment=less football players=less depth. Something the Catholic league doesn't have to worry about as much since they can pull more kids in from anywhere.to fill enrollment.

Also, Catholic League schools do not have to rely as much on feeder programs and building a foundation at the youth levels because many of their players come from different places and cities. If numbers are down in a particular district, there's no way to replenish those kids. Unless families move within their boundaries which is a big commitment for a family. (Notwithstanding Naperville Central where you just don't fill out the paperwork when they move.-haha)

Here's a good way to look at it.

Take the top 3 Catholic league programs in historical success and compare that with the top 3 Public School programs in state title appearances. (This is the common metric that coaches and fans identify as the barometer of the success of a program over the long haul).

State Title Appearances: (Catholic League)
Mt. Carmel-23
Joliet Catholic-18
Providence Catholic-13

State Title Appearances: (Public)
East St. Louis-12
Wheaton Warrenville South/Central-11
Maine South-9

Catholic League/Private schools have a distinct consistency advantage and we shouldn't deny it. This is true in IL and it's also true nationally as well. Check out the USAtoday National rankings this and every other year. There are far more private schools there every year. Hence why you have at least 10-15+ D 1 players on IMG, Mater Dei and SJB every single year and most of the schools on that list are private.

I did appreciate that the IHSA added private school multiplier, but even with that, there will always be an imbalance in terms of consistent success for the reasons I state above.

 

[missingwalter]

The point is not whether public schools have a reasonable opportunity to win in any given year, but rather when you can recruit from 30 miles around your school with no boundaries, you have a far higher chance of being good year in and year out with more consistent and sustainable success. This is why someone from a public school would put Catholic League (private) schools in a different category when comparing success over the long haul.

Also, fact-check me on this, but Catholic league schools often dress far more players as a % of their enrollment and therefore have more depth on their teams every year. Maybe it's because the coaches are better at convincing kids to play football, but it's at least reasonable to assume that they have an advantage since players can come there from other suburbs and cities to play for them and aren't susceptible to downturns in enrollment due to not having boundaries. For example, I hear there will be a string of years coming in the Wheaton school district where enrollment will be drastically reduced and could even drop WWS down to 6A. Less enrollment=less football players=less depth. Something the Catholic league doesn't have to worry about as much since they can pull more kids in from anywhere.to fill enrollment.

Also, Catholic League schools do not have to rely as much on feeder programs and building a foundation at the youth levels because many of their players come from different places and cities. If numbers are down in a particular district, there's no way to replenish those kids. Unless families move within their boundaries which is a big commitment for a family. (Notwithstanding Naperville Central where you just don't fill out the paperwork when they move.-haha)

Here's a good way to look at it.

Take the top 3 Catholic league programs in historical success and compare that with the top 3 Public School programs in state title appearances. (This is the common metric that coaches and fans identify as the barometer of the success of a program over the long haul).

State Title Appearances: (Catholic League)
Mt. Carmel-23
Joliet Catholic-18
Providence Catholic-13

State Title Appearances: (Public)
East St. Louis-12
Wheaton Warrenville South/Central-11
Maine South-9

Catholic League/Private schools have a distinct consistency advantage and we shouldn't deny it. This is true in IL and it's also true nationally as well. Check out the USAtoday National rankings this and every other year. There are far more private schools there every year. Hence why you have at least 10-15+ D 1 players on IMG, Mater Dei and SJB every single year and most of the schools on that list are private.

I did appreciate that the IHSA added private school multiplier, but even with that, there will always be an imbalance in terms of consistent success for the reasons I state above.

I'm sure the private school people will chime in, but there is also that whole tuition thing.

 

[mchsalumni]

My comment was in jest. However, what you have just done in identifying an individual and attacking them personally is inappropriate and the post should be removed.

Removed, but I'll decline your explanation that it was in jest.

 

[ClownBaby]

I'm sure the private school people will chime in, but there is also that whole tuition thing.

Depends on if you have a donor that can help out with tuition or not, makes things much more affordable.

 

[missingwalter]

Sure it does, but I'm pretty sure the depth of the roster isn't getting much help. Don't make me argue FOR the privates.

 

[UlbKA91]

The point is not whether public schools have a reasonable opportunity to win in any given year, but rather when you can recruit from 30 miles around your school with no boundaries, you have a far higher chance of being good year in and year out with more consistent and sustainable success. This is why someone from a public school would put Catholic League (private) schools in a different category when comparing success over the long haul.

Also, fact-check me on this, but Catholic league schools often dress far more players as a % of their enrollment and therefore have more depth on their teams every year. Maybe it's because the coaches are better at convincing kids to play football, but it's at least reasonable to assume that they have an advantage since players can come there from other suburbs and cities to play for them and aren't susceptible to downturns in enrollment due to not having boundaries. For example, I hear there will be a string of years coming in the Wheaton school district where enrollment will be drastically reduced and could even drop WWS down to 6A. Less enrollment=less football players=less depth. Something the Catholic league doesn't have to worry about as much since they can pull more kids in from anywhere.to fill enrollment.

Also, Catholic League schools do not have to rely as much on feeder programs and building a foundation at the youth levels because many of their players come from different places and cities. If numbers are down in a particular district, there's no way to replenish those kids. Unless families move within their boundaries which is a big commitment for a family. (Notwithstanding Naperville Central where you just don't fill out the paperwork when they move.-haha)

Here's a good way to look at it.

Take the top 3 Catholic league programs in historical success and compare that with the top 3 Public School programs in state title appearances. (This is the common metric that coaches and fans identify as the barometer of the success of a program over the long haul).

State Title Appearances: (Catholic League)
Mt. Carmel-23
Joliet Catholic-18
Providence Catholic-13

State Title Appearances: (Public)
East St. Louis-12
Wheaton Warrenville South/Central-11
Maine South-9

Catholic League/Private schools have a distinct consistency advantage and we shouldn't deny it. This is true in IL and it's also true nationally as well. Check out the USAtoday National rankings this and every other year. There are far more private schools there every year. Hence why you have at least 10-15+ D 1 players on IMG, Mater Dei and SJB every single year and most of the schools on that list are private.

I did appreciate that the IHSA added private school multiplier, but even with that, there will always be an imbalance in terms of consistent success for the reasons I state above.

Northeast prep schools and military academies that used to provide a 5th year are a better comp for IMG. Whole different model - there are several enrollment and team construction models that IL privates use.