Lake Zurich vs. PN

[vfl05]

NFL teams do run jet sweeps and they run option football. But the NFL game is not the college game. Too much time and especially money is tied up in developing and keeping QB's. In college, it is next man up.

I can't ever make a case where speed is the most important factor. Speed is a factor but not THE factor.

Guess it is no coincidence that you have an Illini helmet as your picture. You have figured out football as well as they have.

Lol have fun playing football with slow guys. If you are ever interested in not being an idiot, take a look at what top college and NFL coaches think about speed and it’s importance in the game of football.

This thread is like a magnet for ignorance.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Yep I’ll sign a bunch of fast guys. That’s the only element of the game I want covered.

 

[SWsuburbs4]

Yep I’ll sign a bunch of fast guys. That’s the only element of the game I want covered

Please tell me one position that the NFL doesn’t look for speed in other than quarterback or kicker...

Nowhere was it said that speed is the only element that goes into football.

 

[vfl05]

Yep I’ll sign a bunch of fast guys. That’s the only element of the game I want covered.

Yep. If I had an education from LZ, I would read all the posts in this thread and come to the conclusion that the ONLY quality needed in football is speed. I am now convinced more than ever that LZ is full of slow people who can’t read.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

You wanna keep insulting me personally If that makes you feel better go ahead. I’m sure it makes you proud to insult people. Calling people idiots that’s classy. I didn’t attend LZ. What’s your next insult? I’ll wait.

 

[Quags57]

Please tell me one position that the NFL doesn’t look for speed in other than quarterback or kicker...

Nowhere was it said that speed is the only element that goes into football.

Yep...I want all fast guys.

I want the fastest wide receiver I can find...but I pray to God he can catch the ball or get off a jam.
I want the fastest running back I can find...but I hope that he can read a block and hang on to the football.
I want the fastest offensive linemen I can find...I just hope the hell he block or get to the right guy or have any kind of size
I want the fastest defensive linemen I can find...I just hope they have size, know how to get off a block and tackle
I want the fastest linebackers I can find...I just hope they can read a back and get off a linemen's block and tackle
I want the fastest corners I can find...I just hope they can cover someone or be physical enough an be able to catch the ball when needed

I want them fast...I just hope that they are smart and understand the game of football better than you or VFL05 ever will.

 

[vfl05]

Yep...I want all fast guys.

I want the fastest wide receiver I can find...but I pray to God he can catch the ball or get off a jam.
I want the fastest running back I can find...but I hope that he can read a block and hang on to the football.
I want the fastest offensive linemen I can find...I just hope the hell he block or get to the right guy or have any kind of size
I want the fastest defensive linemen I can find...I just hope they have size, know how to get off a block
I want the fastest linebackers I can find...I just hope they can read a back and get off a linemen's block
I want the fastest corners I can find...I just hope they can cover someone or be physical enough

I want them fast...I just hope that they are smart and understand the game of football better than you or VFL05 ever will.

Sounds like you want fast guys that are coached well. You can teach a fast WR to get off a jam or a RB how to block or hang onto the football. But if you got a slow WR, his room for error in those other skills is pretty small. Seems to me like you just made a great case for speed being the most important part of football in a number of ways.

 

[Quags57]

I can teach my dog to roll over, that doesn't mean he will do it.

 

[vfl05]

You wanna keep insulting me personally If that makes you feel better go ahead. I’m sure it makes you proud to insult people. Calling people idiots that’s classy. I didn’t attend LZ. What’s your next insult? I’ll wait.

Oh you wanna play the victim now? That's cute. If you don't like being fired back on, don't attack every post I make with things that were never said.

All that was said was that PN's speed could possibly give LZ fits. I explained myself repeatedly in a civil manner, but my patience with your and some other posters in this thread twisting what I said or flat out making things up is wearing thin.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

So do you want a 5-8 155 wr that runs a 4.5 or 6-0 wr that runs 4.7 that’s 190 and he can also run block

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Oh you wanna play the victim now? That's cute. If you don't like being fired back on, don't attack every post I make with things that were never said.

All that was said was that PN's speed could possibly give LZ fits. I explained myself repeatedly in a civil manner, but my patience with your and some other posters in this thread twisting what I said or flat out making things up is wearing thin.

You never said could possibly you never said it might you said lz can’t keep up with PN. No attacking at all but get your argument right

 

[vfl05]

So do you want a 5-8 155 wr that runs a 4.5 or 6-0 wr that runs 4.7 that’s 190 and he can also run block

Maybe you should ask the MIami coaches if they are liking their undersized WR from IL right now? Or do we have to pretend that all fast guys have zero other skills?

 

[vfl05]

You never said could possibly you never said it might you said lz can’t keep up with PN. No attacking at all but get your argument right

Oops. Got me there. I didn't say "possibly", I said "might." There goes all my credibility. Are you for real right now?

 

[Quags57]

Maybe you should ask the MIami coaches if they are liking their undersized WR from IL right now? Or do we have to pretend that all fast guys have zero other skills?

That's not the point. There are undersized players who are fast that can make it. But I am saying that the kid can catch and run a route properly.

Again, the point is (if you can read and comprehend) speed is NOT the most important factor.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

what kind of speed is everyone talking about?

Are we talking quickness in the first 5 -10 yards? Or 40yard dash times with straight line speed?

I could care less what a Lineman runs a 40 at. I do care a ton what his shuttle time is and what is time is in the first 10 yards of a 40.

For RBs I would take average speed if they had asweome vision and body control for cutting (again quickness and agility).

DBs speed is very important in my mind but so is smooth swivel hips for coverage.

Some positions straight line speed is more important than others - but there are so many other components to Football other than speed. In addition there are variables of speed (quickness, agility, etc) that are as important as pure straight line speed is.

 

[vfl05]

That's not the point. There are undersized players who are fast that can make it. But I am saying that the kid can catch and run a route properly.

Again, the point is (if you can read and comprehend) speed is NOT the most important factor.

I know your point, but you are wrong. Jeff Thomas can have the best hands and run the best routes all he wants but what sets him apart and makes him able to succeed at such a high level even though he is undersized is his speed.

 

[vfl05]

what kind of speed is everyone talking about?

Are we talking quickness in the first 5 -10 yards? Or 40yard dash times with straight line speed?

I could care less what a Lineman runs a 40 at. I do care a ton what his shuttle time is and what is time is in the first 10 yards of a 40.

For RBs I would take average speed if they had asweome vision and body control for cutting (again quickness and agility).

DBs speed is very important in my mind but so is smooth swivel hips for coverage.

Some positions straight line speed is more important than others - but there are so many other components to Football other than speed. In addition there are variables of speed (quickness, agility, etc) that are as important as pure straight line speed is.

I don't disagree that there are plenty of other important factors in football success and that there are variables in speed. But, if one guy runs a 4.3 and the other a 4.7, who do you think will have the fastest shuttle?

By the way, there are rarely OL drafted in the first round that do not have a top 10 40 time in the combine. Draft results repeatedly reflect 40 times being the biggest factor for NFL teams.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I know your point, but you are wrong. Jeff Thomas can have the best hands and run the best routes all he wants but what sets him apart and makes him able to succeed at such a high level even though he is undersized is his speed.

Yes agreed. But he also has awesome hands and runs exceptional routes. Hands are somewhat god given and I’m sure he worked hard at perfecting his soft hands over the years. Route running can be taught and practiced.

Would you take Usain Bolt in his prime over Jeff Thomas for your WR? I would not. And Bolt is definitely faster than Thomas.

 

[michaeldgannon]

Yes Vfl05, you are right and everyone else on this thread is wrong. Or maybe, just maybe, everyone else is right and you are wrong. I'll bet on the latter.

 

[vfl05]

Yes agreed. But he also has awesome hands and runs exceptional routes. Hands are somewhat god given and I’m sure he worked hard at perfecting his soft hands over the years. Route running can be taught and practiced.

Would you take Usain Bolt in his prime over Jeff Thomas for your WR? I would not. And Bolt is definitely faster than Thomas.

Pretty unfair comparison considering he never once played the game. Again, every example given about speed is with a guy that has no other football skills. Fast guys can have football skill too.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I don't disagree that there are plenty of other important factors in football success and that there are variables in speed. But, if one guy runs a 4.3 and the other a 4.7, who do you think will have the fastest shuttle?

By the way, there are rarely OL drafted in the first round that do not have a top 10 40 time in the combine. Draft results repeatedly reflect 40 times being the biggest factor for NFL teams.

If everything else is equal - yeah I want 4.3 speed over 4.7!! Problem in HS is that both players are usually not equal. With the speed you give up hands, size, something. In the NFL there is more equality between option A and option B and speed can be the difference in who you want!

Yup most of the top lineman in the NFL run a pretty decent 40. Somewhere between 4.9 and 5.3 I think if I remember correctly. However in recent drafts I’ve seen some Dlineman go in round 1 that run a 6.2!! Danny Sheldon comes to mind!!

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Pretty unfair comparison considering he never once played the game. Again, every example given about speed is with a guy that has no other football skills. Fast guys can have football skill too.

I know sorry - that wasn’t fair. It was an extreme example of the differences of some of the other important variables. If Bolt even approached Thomas in terms of hands, body control, route running - than yeah I will take the faster guy.

 

[vfl05]

If everything else is equal - yeah I want 4.3 speed over 4.7!! Problem in HS is that both players are usually not equal. With the speed you give up hands, size, something. In the NFL there is more equality between option A and option B and speed can be the difference in who you want!

Yup most of the top lineman in the NFL run a pretty decent 40. Somewhere between 4.9 and 5.3 I think if I remember correctly. However in recent drafts I’ve seen some Dlineman go in round 1 that run a 6.2!! Danny Sheldon comes to mind!!

I don't think you have to give up skill to be fast.

@michaeldgannon If you base what is right and wrong in the real world by the echo chamber of an edgy tim message board, you got problems dude.

 

[vfl05]

I know sorry - that wasn’t fair. It was an extreme example of the differences of some of the other important variables. If Bolt even approached Thomas in terms of hands, body control, route running - than yeah I will take the faster guy.

It just creates a little wiggle room or room for error on that skill. For a WR to be good but slow, his other skills better be off the charts. But a fast WR can be great with just adequate skills.

 

[michaeldgannon]

I don't think you have to give up skill to be fast.

@michaeldgannon If you base what is right and wrong in the real world by the echo chamber of an edgy tim message board, you got problems dude.

I do. Very accurate and insightful. Come to think of it, that sprinter Bolt would not even start on LZ's defense . . .

 

[LHSTigers94]

Maybe you should ask the MIami coaches if they are liking their undersized WR from IL right now? Or do we have to pretend that all fast guys have zero other skills?

The issue is not speed, the issue is your measure of speed is track and field. Jeff ran at track and field his freshman year only. His speed was developed through football training and learning how to play fast. As his confindence in football grew, his speed increased.

He can run the route tree at top speed and can stop and start with the best of them. I can tell you if Jeff did run track ESL would be the 3 time defending state champs.

 

[vfl05]

The issue is not speed, the issue is your measure of speed is track and field. Jeff ran at track and field his freshman year only. His speed was developed through football training and learning how to play fast. As his confindence in football grew, his speed increased.

He can run the route tree at top speed and can stop and start with the best of them. I can tell you if Jeff did run track ESL would be the 3 time defending state champs.

I used track as a reference for speed once and defended its validity in determining football speed. Jeff would have been elite in track (he was as a freshman). Someone watching him run track could probably say “Hey, if he doesn’t have stone hands and the worlds tightest hips, he would probably be pretty good at football!”

From all the things you have said, it sounds like you would almost view his speed on the track as a negative.

It can be a reference point and it can help develop useful speed on the football field. Didn’t Richt tell Jeff he should think about running track his senior year?

By the way in this scenario where Jeff runs and you three peat in track, does the Edwardsville team you would have stolen two of those titles from get all of its top sprinters healthy? Anderson could only run two events this past year. Michl 2 years ago had to limp through one event when he could have been a 4 event champ.

 

[ClownBaby]

VFL,

You sound like Al Davis, you know the guy that was so consumed by speed it was the only atttibute he looked at and ran his franchise into the ground due to it.

 

[playboymixx]

I used track as a reference for speed once and defended its validity in determining football speed. Jeff would have been elite in track (he was as a freshman). Someone watching him run track could probably say “Hey, if he doesn’t have stone hands and the worlds tightest hips, he would probably be pretty good at football!”

From all the things you have said, it sounds like you would almost view his speed on the track as a negative.

It can be a reference point and it can help develop useful speed on the football field. Didn’t Richt tell Jeff he should think about running track his senior year?

By the way in this scenario where Jeff runs and you three peat in track, does the Edwardsville team you would have stolen two of those titles from get all of its top sprinters healthy? Anderson could only run two events this past year. Michl 2 years ago had to limp through one event when he could have been a 4 event champ.

LOL you beat me to it.

 

[Quags57]

I know your point, but you are wrong. Jeff Thomas can have the best hands and run the best routes all he wants but what sets him apart and makes him able to succeed at such a high level even though he is undersized is his speed.

Sorry not wrong. One guy is the exception and not the rule.

 

[LHSTigers94]

I used track as a reference for speed once and defended its validity in determining football speed. Jeff would have been elite in track (he was as a freshman). Someone watching him run track could probably say “Hey, if he doesn’t have stone hands and the worlds tightest hips, he would probably be pretty good at football!”

From all the things you have said, it sounds like you would almost view his speed on the track as a negative.

It can be a reference point and it can help develop useful speed on the football field. Didn’t Richt tell Jeff he should think about running track his senior year?

By the way in this scenario where Jeff runs and you three peat in track, does the Edwardsville team you would have stolen two of those titles from get all of its top sprinters healthy? Anderson could only run two events this past year. Michl 2 years ago had to limp through one event when he could have been a 4 event champ.

Considering I had the opportunity to see all the kids run when they were healthy, I stand by my comment. Certain kids just have that Kind of impact. As far as Miami is concerned, they had the option to let Jeff run his senior year and chose not too.

 

[Oddy]

Finally, Saturday!!

 

[crusader_of_90]

LZ running away with it (see what I did there) 17-3 with 7:32 in 3q.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

27-9. Final. Don’t think Plainfield North has seen a team with this kind of passing game. Speed couldn’t catch em

 

[vfl05]

27-9. Final. Don’t think Plainfield North has seen a team with this kind of passing game. Speed couldn’t catch em

You’re right! What a factor speed had on that game!

 

[LHSTigers94]

27-9. Final. Don’t think Plainfield North has seen a team with this kind of passing game. Speed couldn’t catch em

Not the team that was 2 seconds slower in track?

 

[eagles2k3]

Called this. I knew Plainfield n was good but lz is at another level this year. Curious to see what everyone has to say.

 

[vinuci31]

Renaldo Nehemiah sucked

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Sure could tell how afraid of Norths speed Lz was. The North speed was a huge factor

 

[michaeldgannon]

PN was moving the ball well on the first possession with short possession passes (as I expected), then on 4th and 3 on the 50 the PN coach made a bad decision and went for it, running outside of all things, and of course sanborn stuffed the play and gave LZ a short field and a ton of momentum.

Then with the score 7-3 PN was playing all eleven defensive players on the line of scrimmage to stop stuztman but forgot LZ can pass, the LZ coach saw it, and when Lewandowski thew that 70 yard strike and the score was 14-3 it seemed to just break PN's spirit. PN pressed the rest of game, went away from their good short possession passing game and tried throw deep down field and started throwing picks and the wheels came off.

Also, PN tried to run outside a lot in the first half and that went nowhere.

To me the coaching decisions were a big part of this game.