Combined CCL/ESCC League Proposal

[Cat Box]

Here is what the CCL and ESCC schools would look like of you divided by Class and ranked by enrollment (not including the remaining CCL Red schools). There are 10 schools with 5A/6A classification and 11 schools with 7A/8A classification.
Who likes this setup?

Catholic League 56

6A, 1709 - New Lenox (Providence Catholic)
6A, 1597 - Burbank (St. Laurence)
6A, 1533 - Chicago (De La Salle)
6A, 1437 - Arlington Heights (St. Viator)
6A, 1387 - Chicago (St. Ignatius)
6A, 1257 - Woodstock (Marian)
6A, 1085 - Lombard (Montini)
5A, 1133 - LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
5A, 1114 - Joliet (Catholic Academy)
5A, 1039 - Chicago Heights (Marian)

Catholic League 78

8A, 3486 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
8A, 2730 - Chicago (Marist)
8A, 2690 - Niles (Notre Dame)
8A, 2637 - Chicago (Brother Rice)
7A, 2193 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
7A, 2175 - Mundelein (Carmel)
7A, 2161 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
7A, 2155 - Chicago (St. Patrick)
7A, 1993 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7A, 1944 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
7A, 1742 - Aurora (Marmion Academy)

 

[epicbret]

I hate it, makes far too much sense.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I hate it, makes far too much sense.

I mean, except for the non-conference scheduling weeks 4-9.

 

[epicbret]

I mean, except for the non-conference scheduling weeks 4-9.

Meh, scheduling is and forever will be a bitch at the HS level.

 

[godfthr53]

I mean, except for the non-conference scheduling weeks 4-9.

The 56 division could be scheduled similar to the ESCC since its the same amount of teams. Although you have Marian Chicago Heights wrong they are 8A enrollment. switch them and Marmion

 

[TonPlugZeroLock]

This is a home run. Love it.

 

[TonPlugZeroLock]

This is a home run. Love it.

You could switch De La Salle and Marmion because De La Salle loves that they're from Chicago and play Chicago teams. I think they'd have a seizure being with the suburban guys. "#WeOn35th"

Also wouldnt hate St. Laurence and Benet switching. A Montini v. Benet rivalry starting up again would be fun.

But all things considered, this was still fabulously done.

 

[Cat Box]

The 56 division could be scheduled similar to the ESCC since its the same amount of teams. Although you have Marian Chicago Heights wrong they are 8A enrollment. switch them and Marmion

I pulled the class/enrollment data from the IHSA "Alpha Enrollments" link under 2016-2017 playoffs page...

http://www.ihsa.org/SportsActivitie...ormationResults.aspx?url=/data/fb/enrolla.htm

Marist is 8A. Marian is 5A.

 

[Cat Box]

You could switch De La Salle and Marmion because De La Salle loves that they're from Chicago and play Chicago teams. I think they'd have a seizure being with the suburban guys. "#WeOn35th"

It's primarily about enrollment/classification pairings, but that is actually a really good idea and makes a lot of sense. Better geography by switching those two schools. Marmion is just barely over the 7A line. If De LaSalle wants to be with the big boys in Chicago, that's cool.

I just would like to get the CCL and ESCC leadership along with Athletic Directors to the table and have a discussion.

 

[USD24]

I pulled the class/enrollment data from the IHSA "Alpha Enrollments" link under 2016-2017 playoffs page...

http://www.ihsa.org/SportsActivitie...ormationResults.aspx?url=/data/fb/enrolla.htm

Marist is 8A. Marian is 5A.

Marian's actual enrollment is 1039. When multiplied they are 1714.35, which puts them right on the 6A/7A cutoff.

 

[ramblinman]

Here is what the CCL and ESCC schools would look like of you divided by Class and ranked by enrollment (not including the remaining CCL Red schools). There are 10 schools with 5A/6A classification and 11 schools with 7A/8A classification.
Who likes this setup?

Catholic League 56

6A, 1709 - New Lenox (Providence Catholic)
6A, 1597 - Burbank (St. Laurence)
6A, 1533 - Chicago (De La Salle)
6A, 1437 - Arlington Heights (St. Viator)
6A, 1387 - Chicago (St. Ignatius)
6A, 1257 - Woodstock (Marian)
6A, 1085 - Lombard (Montini)
5A, 1133 - LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
5A, 1114 - Joliet (Catholic Academy)
5A, 1039 - Chicago Heights (Marian)

Catholic League 78

8A, 3486 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
8A, 2730 - Chicago (Marist)
8A, 2690 - Niles (Notre Dame)
8A, 2637 - Chicago (Brother Rice)
7A, 2193 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
7A, 2175 - Mundelein (Carmel)
7A, 2161 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
7A, 2155 - Chicago (St. Patrick)
7A, 1993 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7A, 1944 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
7A, 1742 - Aurora (Marmion Academy)

I thought Marmion is also bolting to the Metro. No?

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Love the idea. Think it makes total sense for a Catholic League "Super Conference"

That Said - how about a really crazy Idea - a Football only PrivatePub League?

11 + 5 = 16. Could make two divisions of 8?

8A, 3486 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
8A, 2730 - Chicago (Marist)
8A, 2690 - Niles (Notre Dame)
8A, 2637 - Chicago (Brother Rice)
8A, - Neuqua Valley
8A, - Waubonsie Valley
8A, - Metea Valley
8A, - Naperville North
8A, - Naperville Central
7A, 2193 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
7A, 2175 - Mundelein (Carmel)
7A, 2161 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
7A, 2155 - Chicago (St. Patrick)
7A, 1993 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7A, 1944 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
7A, 1742 - Aurora (Marmion Academy)

Geographic divisions could also be developed. Example:
* 7A Niles Notre Dame
* 8A Neuqua
* 8A Waubonsie
* 8A Metea
* 8A Naperville North
* 8A Naperville Central
* 7A Lisle Benet Academy
* 7A Aurora Marmion Academy

 

[Cat Box]

Love the idea. Think it makes total sense for a Catholic League "Super Conference"

That Said - how about a really crazy Idea - a Football only PrivatePub League?

11 + 5 = 16. Could make two divisions of 8?

8A, 3486 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
8A, 2730 - Chicago (Marist)
8A, 2690 - Niles (Notre Dame)
8A, 2637 - Chicago (Brother Rice)
8A, - Neuqua Valley
8A, - Waubonsie Valley
8A, - Metea Valley
8A, - Naperville North
8A, - Naperville Central
7A, 2193 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
7A, 2175 - Mundelein (Carmel)
7A, 2161 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
7A, 2155 - Chicago (St. Patrick)
7A, 1993 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7A, 1944 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
7A, 1742 - Aurora (Marmion Academy)

Geographic divisions could also be developed. Example:
* 7A Niles Notre Dame
* 8A Neuqua
* 8A Waubonsie
* 8A Metea
* 8A Naperville North
* 8A Naperville Central
* 7A Lisle Benet Academy
* 7A Aurora Marmion Academy

Yes - this is crazy talk.....

 

[TPF523]

This hypothetical is fun and it gives us something to talk about but it doesn't seem necessary from the ESCC side. The ESCC doesn't seem to really have any issues, no one is leaving, looking elsewhere or even unhappy it would seem. Just because the CCL has some serious issues doesn't mean the ESCC would or should come to the rescue. With that said I like this idea as a current CCL guy.

 

[TPF523]

I'll play along... So I don't think you just dismiss the red schools since they've been around for a long time in some instances. If you keep them that's 24 schools which separates in to 4 divisions with auto berths nicely. Below are the actual enrollments since some schools are not multiplied in CatBox's enrollments due to lack of success.

Blue
Loyola 2133
Marist 1650
Notre Dame 1630
Br Rice 1598
St Ignatius 1387
Benet 1329

Green
Carmel 1318
Mt Carmel 1310
St Pats 1306
St Rita 1208
Fenwick 1178
Marmion 1056

White
Marian Catholic 1039
Providence 1036
St Laurence 968 (goes up with QoP girls)
De La Salle 929
St Viator 871
Nazareth 762

Red
Marian Central 687
Joliet Catholic 675
Montini 658
DePaul 509
St Joe's 382
Leo 230

Some of the schools are going to be very upset with where they land, no making the red schools happy obviously, but Ignatius and maybe Marian Catholic may be the only ones with competition gripes. Travel obviously wouldn't be good in many instances but you either base off size (i.e competitive) or travel, no way you can really do both. Do you put in provisions about ascension/decension? Thoughts?

 

[Topiary]

Iggy just would not be able to build a powerhouse team - not enough Stanford type football players come through there.
Granted I like
Rice, Marist, MC, Rita, Providence, Marian Catholic
Naz, Fenwick, Laurence, Benet, Montini, JCA
LA, ND, Pats, Carmel, DLS, Iggy
Francis, Marmion, Aurora Cent Cath, Aurora Christian, Viator, Marian Cent Cath
DePaul, Leo, BMac, IC, Joes, Guerin

 

[Snetsrak61]

I'll play along... So I don't think you just dismiss the red schools since they've been around for a long time in some instances. If you keep them that's 24 schools which separates in to 4 divisions with auto berths nicely. Below are the actual enrollments since some schools are not multiplied in CatBox's enrollments due to lack of success.

Blue
Loyola 2133
Marist 1650
Notre Dame 1630
Br Rice 1598
St Ignatius 1387
Benet 1329

Green
Carmel 1318
Mt Carmel 1310
St Pats 1306
St Rita 1208
Fenwick 1178
Marmion 1056

White
Marian Catholic 1039
Providence 1036
St Laurence 968 (goes up with QoP girls)
De La Salle 929
St Viator 871
Nazareth 762

Red
Marian Central 687
Joliet Catholic 675
Montini 658
DePaul 509
St Joe's 382
Leo 230

Some of the schools are going to be very upset with where they land, no making the red schools happy obviously, but Ignatius and maybe Marian Catholic may be the only ones with competition gripes. Travel obviously wouldn't be good in many instances but you either base off size (i.e competitive) or travel, no way you can really do both. Do you put in provisions about ascension/decension? Thoughts?

I think you weight on the permanancy. Location is the most stable so gets the highest weight. Talent in some instances is pretty stable, but can also change over time.

Despite the loss of auto qualifiers, I wonder if 5-5-7-7 would make more sense. A 5 team "tradition" division aka the Blue. Then the next strongest 5 are the next division and cross over 2 games with the Blue. Then two lower divisions of 7 with 1 crossover.

 

[TPF523]

I think you weight on the permanancy. Location is the most stable so gets the highest weight. Talent in some instances is pretty stable, but can also change over time.

Despite the loss of auto qualifiers, I wonder if 5-5-7-7 would make more sense. A 5 team "tradition" division aka the Blue. Then the next strongest 5 are the next division and cross over 2 games with the Blue. Then two lower divisions of 7 with 1 crossover.

You present a good point about location, that won't change but then you run a much more serious risk of upsetting teams when you have schools Leo/Joe's size forced into playing someone like Loyola year after year. I think the best starting point would be to go purely off size and then promote/demote teams to remain fluid and balanced. Location is also very tricky in where some of the borderline teams go and also in the sense you'll have very unbalanced divisions, why would Marian sign up to be in a conference with MC, BR, SR, Provi etc. Anyways all hypothetical or course because no way it happens. There doesn't seem to be an easy answer though.

 

[firstdown21]

It won't happen anytime soon, ESCC AD's believe they were mistreated by CCL. Maybe when some some of dinosaurs go away.

 

[4thNGTG]

I always wondered why this state didn't just start a week earlier like a lot of others and everyone makes the playoffs. Who wouldn't love an extra week of football

 

[HRCJR]

Too much thought is given to travel in football - it is at most 5 regular season games. Its the other sports, especially baseball, that have lots of weekday games. That is the real concern of ADs. Kids get back to their schools at 9:00 pm on a Tuesday and then having to go home.

Football travel is easy compared to all other sports. Loyola has mid-week games at DLS, MC, SL, BR SJ,SF,SR, PC, MA That is tough travel. Also many of those schools have mid-week games at LA.

 

[Topiary]

BR-MC-RITA-MARIST-DLS

PROVY-JCA-MARIAN CATHOLIC-BENET-LAURENCE

LA-ND-CARMEL-ST PATS-MARIAN CENTRAL CATHOLIC

FENWICK-NAZ-MONTINI-MARMION-FRANCIS

BMAC-A.C.C.-DEPAUL--IGGY-VIATOR

LEO-HOPE-IC-JOES-GUERIN-EDS

 

[Cat Box]

BR-MC-RITA-MARIST-DLS

PROVY-JCA-MARIAN CATHOLIC-BENET-LAURENCE

LA-ND-CARMEL-ST PATS-MARIAN CENTRAL CATHOLIC

FENWICK-NAZ-MONTINI-MARMION-FRANCIS

BMAC-A.C.C.-DEPAUL--IGGY-VIATOR

LEO-HOPE-IC-JOES-GUERIN-EDS

This makes no sense because B-mac and Francis just left the CCL (you forgot AC). ACC, Guerin, Eds are all in the Metro Sexual.

I think you are missing the point of the original post. Combine the 5/6A schools in one group and the 7/8A schools in another group by merging the CCL and ESCC. Small schools are out. Maybe one day the CCL can create a 3/4A group and invite all those smaller schools back into the fold.

 

[Cat Box]

Too much thought is given to travel in football - it is at most 5 regular season games. Its the other sports, especially baseball, that have lots of weekday games. That is the real concern of ADs. Kids get back to their schools at 9:00 pm on a Tuesday and then having to go home.

Football travel is easy compared to all other sports. Loyola has mid-week games at DLS, MC, SL, BR SJ,SF,SR, PC, MA That is tough travel. Also many of those schools have mid-week games at LA.

You are 100% correct. The objective is pairing similarly sized schools (regardless of football talent) with one another. Get 7/8A schools competing and 5/6A schools competing. No more futile crossovers.

TonPlugZeroLock had a good recommendation to swap Marmion with De LaSalle. That would be the only geography-based move I would make.

 

[penlight]

This hypothetical is fun and it gives us something to talk about but it doesn't seem necessary from the ESCC side. The ESCC doesn't seem to really have any issues, no one is leaving, looking elsewhere or even unhappy it would seem. Just because the CCL has some serious issues doesn't mean the ESCC would or should come to the rescue. With that said I like this idea as a current CCL guy.

Bingo.

One man's opinion here: The CCL’s aggressive pursuit of expansion has not been successful, with the transient members making that painfully clear.
In 2017, a "Boys only conference" of which most members are coed schools is having issues?
Imagine that.
Consider:

Coed: Loyola, Iggy, Fenwick, De LaSalle, Providence, DePaul/Gordon, Guerin, St. Joe’s, St. Laurence (soon) plus most of the new entrant/transient members (I do not know who is staying and who is leaving) are coed.

vs.

Boys only: Rice, Mt. Carmel, Leo and St. Rita (how long before coed?)

Perhaps transitioning to a coed conference with a strategic focus on the whole (the interests of the coed schools) with considerations for the Boys only schools (I know, heresy) could positively change the trajectory of the conference.
To me it appears that an unwavering/stubborn quest to preserve the memory of a world before face-masks has the CCL spinning-its-wheels and not serving the interests of the balance of its members, which then adversely impacts all members.
Like laurels wither, past glory always fades, but does not have to disappear.

 

[UlbKA91]

The 5 -5-7-7 upthread makes sense, but in populating the lowest division, Leo, Joe, DPP, Marian Catholic, SI and Lawrence, but I could see DeLaSalle, Pats and perhaps Viator really struggling with the choice of Big Fish small pond or patsy in murderers ROW (JCA, Montini, Marmion, Naz, MCC as 5 of the other 7). The Blue can stay the Blue or a South 5 (taking Marist, putting LA with Benet, Fenwick, ND, and Carmel).

 

[Cat Box]

The 5 -5-7-7 upthread makes sense, but in populating the lowest division, Leo, Joe, DPP, Marian Catholic, SI and Lawrence, but I could see DeLaSalle, Pats and perhaps Viator really struggling with the choice of Big Fish small pond or patsy in murderers ROW (JCA, Montini, Marmion, Naz, MCC as 5 of the other 7). The Blue can stay the Blue or a South 5 (taking Marist, putting LA with Benet, Fenwick, ND, and Carmel).

Why do people insist on putting Laurence in the lower category? Laurence is a 6A school and has no business playing 3A schools. That's ridiculous.

7A/8A conference
5A/6A conference
3A/4A conference

Private schools/conferences need to come together and figure out how to make put these three conferences together by the year 2020. Take your time. Do it right. Get it done.

 

[tomloner]

The 5 -5-7-7 upthread makes sense, but in populating the lowest division, Leo, Joe, DPP, Marian Catholic, SI and Lawrence, but I could see DeLaSalle, Pats and perhaps Viator really struggling with the choice of Big Fish small pond or patsy in murderers ROW (JCA, Montini, Marmion, Naz, MCC as 5 of the other 7). The Blue can stay the Blue or a South 5 (taking Marist, putting LA with Benet, Fenwick, ND, and Carmel).

I think Marist and Carmel would both decline this offer. Marist would strongly object.

 

[UlbKA91]

C

Why do people insist on putting Laurence in the lower category? Laurence is a 6A school and has no business playing 3A schools. That's ridiculous.

7A/8A conference
5A/6A conference
3A/4A conference

Private schools/conferences need to come together and figure out how to make put these three conferences together by the year 2020. Take your time. Do it right. Get it done.

Could be a reflection of fears that the Lawrence revival goes away with the coach or of its location (next domino to fall).

 

[Snetsrak61]

The 5 -5-7-7 upthread makes sense, but in populating the lowest division, Leo, Joe, DPP, Marian Catholic, SI and Lawrence, but I could see DeLaSalle, Pats and perhaps Viator really struggling with the choice of Big Fish small pond or patsy in murderers ROW (JCA, Montini, Marmion, Naz, MCC as 5 of the other 7). The Blue can stay the Blue or a South 5 (taking Marist, putting LA with Benet, Fenwick, ND, and Carmel).

I think it comes down to the top and the bottom of the CCL being a tough bridge to gap, and the ESCC really not even being a great fit to do so, and they're basically splitting up to service the CCL at that point.

 

[Cat Box]

I think it comes down to the top and the bottom of the CCL being a tough bridge to gap, and the ESCC really not even being a great fit to do so, and they're basically splitting up to service the CCL at that point.

Regardless of CCL challenges or ESCC lacking challenges, doesn't it make best sense for 5/6A schools and 7/8 schools to be lumped together based upon IHSA enrollment?

 

[TPF523]

Regardless of CCL challenges or ESCC lacking challenges, doesn't it make best sense for 5/6A schools and 7/8 schools to be lumped together based upon IHSA enrollment?

Why have conferences at all then? I'd bet many of the schools in question like playing bigger schools. I know Naz loves playing Marist/ND/Benet, those get them prepared for playoffs. When the system is broke you need to find solutions, I don't know what the CCL will do but they have to do something, I love your idea with some alterations but I'm certain the ESCC will not.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Regardless of CCL challenges or ESCC lacking challenges, doesn't it make best sense for 5/6A schools and 7/8 schools to be lumped together based upon IHSA enrollment?

But if the status quo is fine, why rock the boat?

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Here is what the CCL and ESCC schools would look like of you divided by Class and ranked by enrollment (not including the remaining CCL Red schools). There are 10 schools with 5A/6A classification and 11 schools with 7A/8A classification.
Who likes this setup?

Catholic League 56

6A, 1709 - New Lenox (Providence Catholic)
6A, 1597 - Burbank (St. Laurence)
6A, 1533 - Chicago (De La Salle)
6A, 1437 - Arlington Heights (St. Viator)
6A, 1387 - Chicago (St. Ignatius)
6A, 1257 - Woodstock (Marian)
6A, 1085 - Lombard (Montini)
5A, 1133 - LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
5A, 1114 - Joliet (Catholic Academy)
5A, 1039 - Chicago Heights (Marian)

Catholic League 78

8A, 3486 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
8A, 2730 - Chicago (Marist)
8A, 2690 - Niles (Notre Dame)
8A, 2637 - Chicago (Brother Rice)
7A, 2193 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
7A, 2175 - Mundelein (Carmel)
7A, 2161 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
7A, 2155 - Chicago (St. Patrick)
7A, 1993 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7A, 1944 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
7A, 1742 - Aurora (Marmion Academy)

I'd take it. There are few proposals I have seen i would drop the ESCC for, but would for this: IFIFIFIFIFIF we kept two non-con games

 

[redmen85]

Doesn't that defeat the idea of a 10 team league?

 

[mylittlearcher]

Umm... Woodstock Marian Enrollment of 1257? More like below 750...

**Freshman class (2021) is below 140...

Here is what the CCL and ESCC schools would look like of you divided by Class and ranked by enrollment (not including the remaining CCL Red schools). There are 10 schools with 5A/6A classification and 11 schools with 7A/8A classification.
Who likes this setup?

Catholic League 56

6A, 1709 - New Lenox (Providence Catholic)
6A, 1597 - Burbank (St. Laurence)
6A, 1533 - Chicago (De La Salle)
6A, 1437 - Arlington Heights (St. Viator)
6A, 1387 - Chicago (St. Ignatius)
6A, 1257 - Woodstock (Marian)
6A, 1085 - Lombard (Montini)
5A, 1133 - LaGrange Park (Nazareth Academy)
5A, 1114 - Joliet (Catholic Academy)
5A, 1039 - Chicago Heights (Marian)

Catholic League 78

8A, 3486 - Wilmette (Loyola Academy)
8A, 2730 - Chicago (Marist)
8A, 2690 - Niles (Notre Dame)
8A, 2637 - Chicago (Brother Rice)
7A, 2193 - Lisle (Benet Academy)
7A, 2175 - Mundelein (Carmel)
7A, 2161 - Chicago (Mt. Carmel)
7A, 2155 - Chicago (St. Patrick)
7A, 1993 - Chicago (St. Rita)
7A, 1944 - Oak Park (Fenwick)
7A, 1742 - Aurora (Marmion Academy)

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Meh, scheduling is and forever will be a bitch at the HS level.

thus, we should treat it as so.

 

[stella16]

This has already been talked about and the ESCC wants no part of it, the older crew still holds grudges that occurred with the CMC. Isn't going to happen anytime soon unless its a Non Con.

 

[Vikes76]

Make it two 10-team divisions and you have no non-conference scheduling issues.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Make it two 10-team divisions and you have no non-conference scheduling issues.

Yet the ESCC already has a 10 team league with strong competetive balance...