I didn't hear that part and it's a good catch by you. Nothing about what McCaskey said makes any sense. It says a few things to me. First, if it is true, it shows who is really running the team...and it ain't the GM or HC. Second, if George McCaskey is a fan as he says he is, Nagy might as well be asking any of us what he should be allowed to do. And several guys here could give Nagy better advice than old pencil neck.
Bears
- Thread starter Wassup13
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Perhaps this is true. None of us will ever know but that brings on other tough to answer questions:
1) how many more games would they have won?
2) did they win those games because of Nagy or in spite of him?
For me, it wasn't necessary all about wins (though that does matter). It was also largely about his play calling, roster decisions, clock management, and strategic adjustments during the games. There were just so many head scratching moments the past couple years that even if they managed to pull another couple wins out of their behinds, I would still have little confidence in Nagy as the HC.
Are you and Stormfire new to Chicago? Sorry to be a smart ass but I'm not buying into the thought that the Bears have just "not been lucky enough" for many many decades or that "hey look how many other teams haven't won a SB" as evidence that it is based largely on luck. Often times, you make your own "luck" in life by making good choices, trusting people smarter than you and being willing to completely blow up a system that has consistently produced failure instead of trying to maintain a bad foundation and making tweaks to sell hope.
Of course there is no supposed evidence the McCaskeys meddle. But, do you believe that? I don't. There was no evidence in court that Al Capone killed or had people killed either. Do you think he never did?
Personally, I don't care what annual losing teams like the Lions or Browns do or have done. I look at the successful teams and ask myself why it isn't happening here.
Mike Ditka coached the Bears for 11 years. The Bears made the playoffs seven times, won six games and a Super Bowl. His regular season record was 106-62 with a winning percentage of .631. Mike Ditka was a George Halas hire.
Since Mike Ditka left at the end of the 1992 season and over the last 29 years, the McCaskeys have hired six coaches and are working on number seven. Since then, the Bears have appeared in the playoffs seven times and have won a total of four games and lost seven games and have also lost in the Super Bowl.
These six coaches since Ditka left have gone, 217-248. Twenty-first in the NFL during that time period. If you throw Lovie Smith out, it's real ugly. But he has to stay in so we can see the entire body of work of the McCaskeys and it isn't pretty.
This is why I don't trust the McCaskeys to put a successful team on the field. Outside of a few season, they never have. It's very hard to keep hope when you have these facts staring you in the face.
No more for me. I am not going to trust or believe in the McCaskeys until I see success that is sustained for more than one year. And a team that makes the playoffs, gets knocked out right away then doesn't have a record over .500 for three years doesn't count as successful to me.
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So....copied from the internet. Who's your guy?
- Jim Harbaugh: The former Bears quarterback and current head coach at the University of Michigan has reportedly not ruled out a return to the NFL. Seems like a long shot he'll leave, but he did get drafted by Chicago in 1987.
- Byron Leftwich: The offensive coordinator for the Tampa Bay Bucs has designed one of the best offenses in the league. Although let's be honest, it's much easier to execute when Tom Brady is your quarterback.
- Todd Bowles: How about the Buccaneers defensive coordinator? He's already been a head coach with the Jets and was lousy, but his defenses usually are the best in the league. And Bears fans looooooovvvvveeee defense.
- Leslie Frazier: The Bills defensive coordinator was a starting cornerback for the 1985 Bears. Need we say more? The franchise owes him for that busted reverse punt return in the Super Bowl that ended Frazier's playing career.
- Brian Daboll: The Bills offensive coordinator is on everyone's short list. Who knows, maybe he'd bring Mitch Trubisky back.
That’s funny. And as to your other point, I have lived in Chicago my entire life which is now past half a century…. Ugh. Anyway, you know it could be the McCaskeys’ fault: they could meddle and be complete football idiots. But it seems to be universal that almost all owners in all sports are hated and thought of as fools. I knew I took an unpopular position, but I really still think a huge chunk of success in the NFL is getting lucky with a quarterback. Now I do believe coaching is also key, and as much as Matt Nagy was a standup guy I do not believe he was affective a teaching and coaching. Talent selection is also key: Pace missed the boat with Nagy and, even though all GM’s draft busts, Pace’s hit rate was not high enough. But Pace looked like a decent hire at the time. If he learns not to trade draft capital constantly and develops more talent evaluation skills he may help another team down the road.
And the McCaskeys do look foolish every time they put together a search committee. I think it is an accurate criticism to note that they should have enough contacts of their own to not have to go outside for help every time. However, they do keep hiring football people and putting them in charge. Sometimes you hire people and they don’t get the job done. So then you go get somebody else. but I really don’t see the family as being materially different from most NFL owners.
Now here is another very valid criticism: interviewing coaching candidates prior to having a general manager in place seems incredibly backwards.
My solution: hire a General Manager that wants first wants to load the team up with big, hairy, smelly lineman on both sides of the ball. Build from front to back. GM hires a coach who knows what he’s doing. And get lucky with a quarterback…. Pace said he wanted to draft a quarterback every year. He really should’ve done that.
Rick Smith GM. Doug Pederson or Sean Payton (if we could pry him away) for coach.
I like the honorable mentions more than the others besides Daboll.
Nagy should of been fired for asking that question. McCaskey doesn’t even have enough business sense to know that his coach didn’t know WTF he was doing. Nagy asking the owner who he should start at QB? Unbelievable.
I still don’t get why they waited until after the season to fire those two idiots. We can all agree the Bears have the worst management in the league and it doesn’t end with Nagy and Pace the owners hired those morons.
Taking your question at face value, I've lived in the Chicago suburbs for 54 of the 65 years I've been on this earth, including the last 39 years consecutively. I'm old enough to remember the Jim Dooley and Abe Gibron years, and thus know things can get worse.
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Life's too short, I root for the Packers now. I grew up a Colts fan, but became a Bears fan at the start of the Ditka era. Bears do not deserve my interest or support.
It's great that they have a newly created diversity czar. They are not going to create that position, include her in process, and not hire a minority coach and GM. There are some outstanding minority candidates for either position. Any way you slice it, we all hope they choose outstanding people to fill the roles and not force something that isn't optimal.
I realize I’m complaining about something that isn’t go to change any time soon. It is somehow therapeutic to do so but we are all stuck with what we have for owners so I guess that luck is probably all we can hope for
I just hope it’s not a DC. I still believe this team needs an offensive leader especially one that can develop Fields.
Since Stormfire and Alexander want to continuously make comparisons, here are a few. Since Mike Ditka left the Bears after the 1992 season they have won 217 games and lost 248, which is a winning percentage of .467. That is 21st in the NFL during that time span. They have made seven playoff appearances and that is tied for 24th in the NFL during that time span. And they have four playoff victories, which is tied for 26th in the NFL.
Don't sit there and tell me they are like most of the other organizations and expect me to believe it. Open the Sun Times once in a while and you will see just how bad this whole organization is. And it starts at the top.
Don't sit there and tell me they are like most of the other organizations and expect me to believe it. Open the Sun Times once in a while and you will see just how bad this whole organization is. And it starts at the top.
For reasons that cannot be discussed on this message board, I do not and will not read the Sun-Times. Nevertheless, the points made in your first paragraph are well made. The Bear's results have been below average.
I certainly have no inside information and probably very limited insight, but I have a hunch that when the family matriarch is no longer in the picture the Bears will be sold within a few years. Perhaps at that time things will improve.
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Wait, what? I cannot think of something I disagree with more than him being "better suited" for the NFL. Pro players don't do the rah rah BS like college players.
Ahhhh!! Now, we're getting somewhere. Someplace in this thread, which is probably long enough to go to the moon and back, I floated that theory. Then, the Arlington Heights news and beginning of the acquisition made me think of something else.
It could be either of these two scenarios. But, I was thinking maybe the McCaskeys will go to Arlington Heights, build the stadium and amenities around it, then sell. I read somewhere if they take this route, when it's all together their wealth will likely more than double.
The McCaskeys aren't very good football people. But when it comes to money and business, they are as sharp, astute and shrewd as anyone out there.
This is exactly what will happen. Why sell now when the big money is 5 years downstream? Jeff Bezos, Amazon Stadium?
Harbaugh rah rah? I wouldn’t consider him rah rah at all. I think he’s a lot similar to Bill Belichick.
I would consider Fleck to be rah rah.
He is most likely asking the question since he knows he has to win and his job is in jeopardy so why not go to the guy who is ultimately responsible for the organization. He probably knew Fields wasn't ready and by playing him he was going to get fired, McCaskey isn't smart enough to know why he was asking the question.
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He is no where close to Bill Belichick. Belichick is the best coach in the league. I don’t see any comparison in how Harbaugh coaches. Harbaugh is a clown that has had one good year at Michigan and suddenly he is considered for a NFL coaching job by the Bears no less. I hope the Bears don’t hire him because IMO it will be another bad hire. Yes I know he coached at SF. I always felt like it was only a matter of time before he was fired there. Their was talk as recently as the beginning of the season this year that Harbaugh was in the hot seat if he didn’t have a winning season.
I agree they maybe astute and shrewd but they have no idea how to manage anyone. If I hired a coach and he asked me who he should start at QB I would of been put off and thought about it and prolly fired him the next day. The guy was hired because he is a football coach and he was hired to manage and make decisions. That would of told me he was in over his head and has to go. He fired himself for asking the question. I was asked along time ago this question. Hiring a manager. How do you truly know when you have hired a good manager? Tough question. You don’t know because everyone that has a good resume and if their experience looks great on paper that’s all you have to go by. They might seem like the perfect fit when interviewing. You won’t know if they are good until you see them under pressure! How do they react under stress? How do they talk to people? How are their decision making during this time? You will only know when you see them under the most difficult times. If they handle it well then you know. If not we’ll you also know it’s time to move on. IMO
Coaching/managing is not that much diffident when you get to that level.
Not talking about quality of coach. Talking about personality since you said “rah rah”.
neither are rah rah. That’s my point.
Really our kicker has been good this year. That’s not the issue. I wish that was all that we needed to complain about. You know deep in your heart that is not the reason the Bears suck. 🤣
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It has always looked bad. Like giving into Martz and getting rid of Greg Olsen.
Just another notch on the post as to why they all needed to go. We have the same ownership so do expect a quick fix because it won’t happen. It’s been over 3 decades since we have won a SB. The way things have gone I don’t anticipate current ownership making any smart decisions.
Although I agree it is difficult to know if you have hired a good manager until they have been in the position for a while, I also disagree with portions of your comments above.
The last 30 years of my career were spent in management. I have been interviewed by individuals, panels, and screened by professional employment consulting firms. Yet, far more of my time was spent as the interviewer, often as a member of a hiring panel. This background is only presented to suggest I have experience in this area of discussion.
I watched the entire press conference of George McCaskey. He may or may not have good judgment in terms of evaluating prospective candidates, but he clearly understands the hiring process and displayed good management characteristics himself. He did in fact indicate to Matt Nagy that the questioned posed about who to start at quarterback was inappropriate. On the other hand, to fire a person on the basis of a single question that they asked would display incredibly poor management. The hiring panel the Bears will be using in this process covers all the important bases. The NFL has made it clear that staff diversity is important to the league. The Bears have hired a diversity manager and she is part of the hiring panel. That base is covered. Former Bears players as well as the press and fans have suggested player opinions should be considered in the process. One member of the hiring panel is said to have very strong ties to and relationships with the players in the locker-room. That base is covered. It has been said a "football person" needs to have a significant role in the hiring process. Bill Polian is on the panel to fill that role and I suspect he will have considerably more influence on the final decision than most members of the panel. That base is covered. Whomever the Bears hire for both the coaching position and the general manager position, contracts will need to be negotiated and finalized for both those positions. Ted Phillips may not be a good evaluator of personnel, but he has done a stellar job with respect to contracts and other legal matters and is on the panel solely to fill that role. So that base, too, is covered. All the bases have been covered and yet, with five members, the panel is not so large that it becomes cumbersome. I respectfully submit that those who suggest George McCaskey is a poor manager who does not understand the hiring process, do not themselves understand the hiring process.
Understanding the hiring process is not the same thing as having good hiring judgment. Understanding good management is not the same thing as having good management judgment. McCaskey understands this as well. He was asked several times why Bears fans should trust the Bears (or him) that they will make the correct decision this time. His answer each time was, in essence, that they shouldn't. He indicated an understanding that success in professional sports is driven by wins and losses. He acknowledged that by that standard the Bears have not been successful enough. He knows the success of these two decisions (GM and coach) will be measured in the future and there is nothing he can say or do in the present that will reassure fans. That is simply the way things are, and George McCaskey displayed that he is realistic enough to know that and accept that.
He is also realistic enough to understand that ideally the General Manager should be hired first. He said that at the press conference. And yet, while it is important to have underlying principles and to let them guide one's decisions, a person should never allow themselves to become a prisoner of those principles and blindly follow them irrespective of circumstances. Allowing some flexibility in the decision making process is simply a reflection of good judgment. That is why McCaskey stated during the press conference that they might hire the coach first if circumstances dictated that was the correct thing to do. I don't personally see a prospective coaching candidate out there that is so good the Bears should hire him before hiring the general manager, but I do understand the thought process.
Finally, I will close by addressing your statement that "...if their experience looks great on paper that's all you have to go by." I could not disagree more. That is why one does interviews. Among other things, during the interview process you try to determine those values that the candidate holds dearly and how the candidate thinks. While it is true the resume has to meet certain minimum criteria, it is the intrinsic characteristics of the person that will determine whether or not they will be a difference maker for your organization. Both a generic example and a specific example may prove useful. Generically, if you are interviewing a candidate that frequently uses phrases like "my department", or "my people", or "my budget" or "my vehicle fleet", beware. They are likely self-centered and will cause more problems than they solve. Similarly, if they are all about "I" did this and "I" did that rather than attributing successes to the contributions of others as well, you are probably interviewing a poor candidate.
My specific example of not trusting a resume is admittedly somewhat speculative since I've never met the person. I am speaking of Ed Orgeron. The man won a national title at LSU. What can look better than that on a resume (at least for a college coach)? I suspect anyone who has a 30-minute conversation with the man would know better than to hire him as a college head football coach. The national title was clearly the result of the players and, more importantly for the purposes of this discussion, the two coordinators he had on staff at the time. That is why the wins dried up as soon as the coordinators left. They have had great success at their new jobs; Ed did not have continued success at LSU and he was dismissed.
Like all of you I wish the Bears success in this hiring process. It would be fun to see them in the playoffs again very soon.
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The AFC is far from being decided. I see talk here about KC and BUF. Don't forget about the Titans. They have beaten four teams that are still in the playoffs including the Bills and a beatdown against KC. Derrick Henry went down on Oct. 31st and they went 6-3 since that time and grabbed the number one seed. They have won four of their last five games. It looks as if Henry will be available this Saturday against the Bengals and if he becomes a factor, I like TEN to go to the SB.
The Bengals also beat the Chiefs on Jan 2nd. They now have a five game winning streak with the win over the Raiders on Saturday. Buffalo is also on a current winning streak of five games including the pasting of the Patriots on Saturday. And the Chiefs have won 10 out of their last 11.
The Bengals also beat the Chiefs on Jan 2nd. They now have a five game winning streak with the win over the Raiders on Saturday. Buffalo is also on a current winning streak of five games including the pasting of the Patriots on Saturday. And the Chiefs have won 10 out of their last 11.
You’re just jealous he managed to exceed the length of some of your posts. 😀
