Sac’um,
If they are prepared for the workforce what work are they to do with the Basics? Basic math does not prepare you for College or really the trades as evidenced by the OP’s post about sitting for the apprentice test.
@snets,
I may have judged you a bit harsher than I should have as I thought you were joining yourself to Sac’ums comments which tend to IMHO poopoo the trades. I just want to see kids prepared for the world and this general basic education pushes kids through the system unprepared for said world. Apologies!
I really don't think sac'um was poo pooing the trades as hard as you think either to be honest. Some of the language (like the mines) was obviously hyperbolic, but even he had posted clear language with support of trades.
At the end of the day, I think there's plenty that you and I still wouldn't agree on. But I just want kids to be given options and with their parents guidance to make the choice to make the best option. Maybe that is some state run vocational programs (whether single track secondary programs aimed at those with highest risk of failing to obtain a traditional HS diploma or post secondary investments in Community College programs that cater to trades). But I'd defer to HS diploma being the baseline and that more time in middle and high is spent on a wide range of skills which probably should include some basic and standard vocational skills (if none other, at least computer and typing skills please, for all track kids) as a standard and not elective, and full credit. Current laws really damper some of the ability to do that though.
But trades encompasses A LOT of different stuff. I think these convos sometimes veer to spending a lot of time on seemingly unicorn ones. But a lot are just normal jobs that very clearly have limited lifetime earnings potential.
Which is fine, but I think most people would want to explore the option of choosing potentially higher earning career tracks and make that decision. And I heard an interesting convo recently which is that a lot of "underperforming" desk job people would turn their back very quickly on many of the higher paying trades once they saw the physical demands (often long term physical toll). One good example was people finding out recently how much UPS workers were making in their latest contract negotiations. And then the realization from those same people that is a very physically demanding career. My neighbor made a great honest living as a garbage man. Secure earnings, great pension, perfectly respectable living... And a back that is totally wrecked and has needed many surgeries. There are serious risks too. The full pro/con picture of any route and not the romanticized version is key for every person to make an informed decision. Obviously on the College track that's the serious cost and risk of debt (especially if you fail to complete the degree). Especially for what is often money spent on not really critical to the educational experience (the college lifestyle $).
Other times the risk is just instability of work. Early in his career my dad worked in high rise construction. When it was "on" they pay was REALLY good. But it was lots of long days/weeks at 1.5x pay and then would dry up until the next job came, which was uncertain. He did that for about a decade before choosing a more steady but lower ceiling income in fire/paramedic once he had 4 kids. Some trades are like that and it's a lot to ask someone even at 18 or 23 to consider that long term commitment. So flexibility and broad skills IS really important imo. By the way, he's one of those people who could have gone the desk route. Had a college degree thanks to sports. Spent one year in insurance and hated it and never went back. He ultimately really loved paramedic especially because he felt called to serve people and that allowed it.
So no I have zero disdain for trades. And I've also seen first hand the overly pro college track pushed. I was probably always going to be that college track and my mom especially pushed against my desire to explore non college routes like military (including as early as my concern of going to a CP school at Naz even though 3 siblings before me all had). I ultimately did explore all options and while a college degree has served me really well I can also say I didn't really know what I was doing or wanting to do even at 18 making those decisions. There's "not coddling" kids, but there's also just laying out options totally honestly and letting them learn and potentially fail a little too. Definite balance.
