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Illinois State’s Coach Spack 👏👏

EdgyTim
jha618 said:
I hated the games in Dekalb. Champaign and Bloomington are infinitely better locations for championship weekend.
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Yeah but at least NIU wanted them and I thought was a good host......blue collar u also lets not forget that ISU basically kicked the games to the curb because they thought they make $$$ hosting FCS games.....which was a joke since very few FCS school host actually make money.
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IHSAfan207 said:
I took a team like West Chicago (for the record I have no rooting interest in this team one way or another) as the classic over classified team. They constantly loose top talent to Wheaton Academy and St Francis (right or wrong another argument for another day), play in one of the State's easier conferences but gets saddled in 7A solely based on the school size, I can make argument they would struggle in 4A.
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Great example.
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4Afan said:
Arizona has an "open" class but is determined by MaxPreps rankings and takes the top 16(?). Not sure if there is an option for those teams to opt out if they don't want to play in the open class.
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Interesting, I am going to research this some. I guess I could see teams in the bottom end wanting to opt out, but man that would be a tough sell. Ask team 256 if they had team 12 talent if they would opt out, I bet you would get a different answer. Somehow the perception would need to change, the top 12 is the playoffs, and all other brackets are like the "bowl games" in college, still prestigious but nothing beats a Natty.
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Bears

S
LTHSALUM76 said:
Trending? Well. let's take a look at that. In the last five games the Bears have given up an average of 23.2 points. That is not awful. However, in that same span they have scored an average of 14.6 points per game. I don't care how good your defense is, you are not going to win in the NFL if you're scoring 14 points a game. Again, the defense really isn't the bigger problem.
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The last two game haven't been great for the D.
I'd have to look up, but they have given up way too many 3rd and long when they could have gotten off the field.
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Snetsrak61 said:
I've mentioned a few times as well, but Ohio's competetive balance solution is very interesting as a supplement to enrollment based classes. It multiplies both private and public schools based on where they're getting students from. Public schools with a high number of transfers and private schools drawing from very wide range get dinged more. But at the end of the day it doesn't legislate that strong feeder programs can be a competetive advantage for either type of school. It only multiplies ones who reach outside those feeder programs/schools most. If it's just about "recruiting" that's fair to all types of schools.

But it'd be a big administrative burden that falls on schools to keep up. Brief article talks about its implementation and early results:
www.dispatch.com

Competitive balance: How the OHSAA calculates competitive balance, and why it matters

The OHSAA implemented competitive balance in the 2017-18 season. What is it, how is it calculated and has it worked?
www.dispatch.com
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Seriously, a large school with a robust athletics department would need a compliance officer just to keep up with OHSAA competitive balance reporting requirements.
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Bears

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colin2229 said:
The problem is where they are trending.
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Trending? Well. let's take a look at that. In the last five games the Bears have given up an average of 23.2 points. That is not awful. However, in that same span they have scored an average of 14.6 points per game. I don't care how good your defense is, you are not going to win in the NFL if you're scoring 14 points a game. Again, the defense really isn't the bigger problem.
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ramblinman said:
Yes! I've been howling in the wind about this for years on this board! Glad to see someone else seeing the logic of it. Be prepared for lots of naysayers and nitpickers, though.



Very interesting idea indeed! Ranking will be a challenge and lots of folks will want you to have every T crossed and I dotted on that.



Again, I've been talking about this for years, but I was pilloried when I took your approach that smarter people than me can come up with the right formula. Talk with @stonedlizard about the system he has already devised.



Hmmm. Now you are getting into dangerous territory. People will mock you and say that it will diminish the non Champion Bracket class championships.



The elephant in the room. No easy fix.



I believe, more than anything, that the problem lies in a flawed enrollment-based classification system. I also believe that there are too many classes and too many qualifiers in each class. The more watered down the playoffs are with classes and enrollment-based qualifiers, the more they are susceptible to blowouts especially in 1-32 seeding.

Overall, I think your heart is in the right place on this. Thanks for taking a stab at it. Seriously, have a conversation with @stonedlizard about this. You'll be glad you did.
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I appreciate the reply, I will be the first to admit some of my thoughts probably been shot down in the past. Haha, I knew I was entering dangerous waters, I had post ready to go but been sitting on it for few days waiting on the right timing to post, and this post came along and it seemed to fit. Figured the private vs public would eat it alive.

I agree with it being to watered down, I tried to keep it at the same amount of teams currently as I thought about the classification issues.

I took a team like West Chicago (for the record I have no rooting interest in this team one way or another) as the classic over classified team. They constantly loose top talent to Wheaton Academy and St Francis (right or wrong another argument for another day), play in one of the State's easier conferences but gets saddled in 7A solely based on the school size, I can make argument they would struggle in 4A.
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IHSAfan207 said:
Good point. My theory would be that playing for "top team in State" might change the perception some. I thought I read some teams cant go to 8A for some reason, (could be wrong), like ESL. If there was a reasonable and agreed upon ranking system top 12 wont have a choice but to play in the Champion bracket. Again just a working theory. But man this hypothetical Champions Bracket would be one hell of a Bracket!
For example this year could have looked like this:
1. LA
2. MC
3. ESL
4. LWE
5. NAZ
6. JCA
7. Batavia
8. Geneva
9. DGN
10. York
11. Marist
12. NC
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Arizona has an "open" class but is determined by MaxPreps rankings and takes the top 16(?). Not sure if there is an option for those teams to opt out if they don't want to play in the open class.
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Snetsrak61
doctor_d said:
My one and only problem with the “open class” idea that is brought up every year is the fact that the IHSA basically already has this. Every school currently has the ability to petition up to whatever class they want, and very few actually do it.
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Yea I think there has to be some sort of carrot for schools, private and public alike, to make something like that a reality.

Or take it the other way and use the district policy as an "opt down" measure for teams who just are comfortable with something a little different. And you proportionally shrink down the State Championship / non district field into smaller classes that stack top teams naturally.
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Football Enrollment

Snetsrak61
I've mentioned a few times as well, but Ohio's competetive balance solution is very interesting as a supplement to enrollment based classes. It multiplies both private and public schools based on where they're getting students from. Public schools with a high number of transfers and private schools drawing from very wide range get dinged more. But at the end of the day it doesn't legislate that strong feeder programs can be a competetive advantage for either type of school. It only multiplies ones who reach outside those feeder programs/schools most. If it's just about "recruiting" that's fair to all types of schools.

But it'd be a big administrative burden that falls on schools to keep up. Brief article talks about its implementation and early results:
www.dispatch.com

Competitive balance: How the OHSAA calculates competitive balance, and why it matters

The OHSAA implemented competitive balance in the 2017-18 season. What is it, how is it calculated and has it worked?
www.dispatch.com
Click to expand...
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Reactions: IHSAfan207

Football Enrollment

I
doctor_d said:
My one and only problem with the “open class” idea that is brought up every year is the fact that the IHSA basically already has this. Every school currently has the ability to petition up to whatever class they want, and very few actually do it.
Click to expand...
Good point. My theory would be that playing for "top team in State" might change the perception some. I thought I read some teams cant go to 8A for some reason, (could be wrong), like ESL. If there was a reasonable and agreed upon ranking system top 12 wont have a choice but to play in the Champion bracket. Again just a working theory. But man this hypothetical Champions Bracket would be one hell of a Bracket!
For example this year could have looked like this:
1. LA
2. MC
3. ESL
4. LWE
5. NAZ
6. JCA
7. Batavia
8. Geneva
9. DGN
10. York
11. Marist
12. NC
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Football Enrollment

I
SiuCubFan8 said:
Always enjoy hearing someone's thoughts on how to make the playoffs better.
Just for clarification, I will use 5A the class for the example. The top 16 teams compete for a 5A title and the next 16 teams compete for a 5A title? Did I miss something? So, you have 5A Gold champs and 5A Silver champs? Obviously, Gold=Upper and Silver=Relegation.
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Yes correct, in theory top 16 for the 5A "top" title and bottom 16 for a secondary title so however its called Gold / Silver or A / AA.
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Snetsrak61 said:
On some level I think some enrollment based factor is practical (whether direct or football enrollment). But whereas today it's like 95/5 (SF playing a very small role), maybe it needs to be more 70/30 or something. And the 30 as much as possible should be based on leading success indicators and not backwards looking success adjustments (which will rarely make sense).
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I do too, but don't call it enrollment based. That's basically what we have now. Call it enrollment influenced.
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Football Enrollment

Snetsrak61
ramblinman said:
Yes! I've been howling in the wind about this for years on this board! Glad to see someone else seeing the logic of it. Be prepared for lots of naysayers and nitpickers, though.



Very interesting idea indeed! Ranking will be a challenge and lots of folks will want you to have every T crossed and I dotted on that.



Again, I've been talking about this for years, but I was pilloried when I took your approach that smarter people than me can come up with the right formula. Talk with @stonedlizard about the system he has already devised.



Hmmm. Now you are getting into dangerous territory. People will mock you and say that it will diminish the non Champion Bracket class championships.



The elephant in the room. No easy fix.



I believe, more than anything, that the problem lies in a flawed enrollment-based classification system. I also believe that there are too many classes and too many qualifiers in each class. The more watered down the playoffs are with classes and enrollment-based qualifiers, the more they are susceptible to blowouts especially in 1-32 seeding.

Overall, I think your heart is in the right place on this. Thanks for taking a stab at it. Seriously, have a conversation with @stonedlizard about this. You'll be glad you did.
Click to expand...
There's always are gonna be blowouts. Across all classes the best teams on a good day are just head and shoulders above a median team, even a median playoff team.

Trying to go 32 deep in a strictly competetive balance mandate is just tough too. You have a lot of small class schools who are probably in the top 50 teams in a given year. Are they "7A" now? (assuming you could seed the best 32 in 8A and work down the line).

On some level I think some enrollment based factor is practical (whether direct or football enrollment). But whereas today it's like 95/5 (SF playing a very small role), maybe it needs to be more 70/30 or something. And the 30 as much as possible should be based on leading success indicators and not backwards looking success adjustments (which will rarely make sense).
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