Plainfield North @ Fenwick

[Blue KevIL]

Pathetic. IHSA admits a wrong, has a chance to make it right, but falls back on bureaucratic by-laws.

So, officially, they say: "Fenwick, oops sorry." & "Plainfield North, you don't belong in the 7A Championship Game"

Well done.

 

[bgoss6474]

Why on earth would you have a law stating that “the decisions of game officials shall be final; protests against the decision of a game official shall not be reviewed by the Board of Directors"????

That law by its very nature rules out the possibility of correcting horrible situations such as this one. Apparently the IHSA doesn't value justice so much.

 

[daveje]

Why on earth would you have a law stating that “the decisions of game officials shall be final; protests against the decision of a game official shall not be reviewed by the Board of Directors"????

That law by its very nature rules out the possibility of correcting horrible situations such as this one. Apparently the IHSA doesn't value justice so much.

Because they know that if they allowed protests, they'd have to work triple shifts every day all fall. There should be some sensible system that would allow for edge cases like this to be reviewed but that would require a little bit of creativity so it's DOA.

 

[daryl rl]

Why on earth would you have a law stating that “the decisions of game officials shall be final; protests against the decision of a game official shall not be reviewed by the Board of Directors"????

That law by its very nature rules out the possibility of correcting horrible situations such as this one. Apparently the IHSA doesn't value justice so much.

CYA CYA (cover your a__)

 

[bgoss6474]

Because they know that if they allowed protests, they'd have to work triple shifts every day all fall. There should be some sensible system that would allow for edge cases like this to be reviewed but that would require a little bit of creativity so it's DOA.

You can narrow the scope of this kind of law so that it wouldn't result in "triple shifts every day all fall". The current law seems aimed at ensuring that they never have to deal with any difficult situations.

 

[godfthr53]

Because they know that if they allowed protests, they'd have to work triple shifts every day all fall. There should be some sensible system that would allow for edge cases like this to be reviewed but that would require a little bit of creativity so it's DOA.

Aren't there protests allowed in Baseball?

 

[chirocal44]

That crew is slated to referee a state title game....terrible ihsa ruling.
The clock read 0:00 fenwick 10-7. Fenwick should be in the championship.
The ihsa has an appeal process that serves no purpose at all.
Atrocity for the Fenwick community, worse for the boys.

 

[daveje]

You can narrow the scope of this kind of law so that it wouldn't result in "triple shifts every day all fall". The current law seems aimed at ensuring that they never have to deal with any difficult situations.

Yes, reasonable people who give this a little thought could do exactly that. But this is the IHSA we're talking about.

 

[Tdonnahue33]

What about the call 2:00 before game expired and North scores a touchdown and ref calls a bs penalty saying he went out of bounce and gave PN a 15 yard penalty after they ruled it a touchdown. He never stepped out on film. Would the game be overturned if qb never throws ball in air and gets a safety??!!
Who wins?
Exactly

 

[Cross Bones]

I protest some games in the 90's that I think need some reviewing. There were some horrible calls in the Belvidere game in '93 I'd like to overturn that cost us the championship.

 

[Blue KevIL]

What about the call 2:00 before game expired and North scores a touchdown and ref calls a bs penalty saying he went out of bounce and gave PN a 15 yard penalty after they ruled it a touchdown. He never stepped out on film. Would the game be overturned if qb never throws ball in air and gets a safety??!!
Who wins?
Exactly

Judgment call vs. misapplication of rules.
Two different things.

 

[bgoss6474]

What about the call 2:00 before game expired and North scores a touchdown and ref calls a bs penalty saying he went out of bounce and gave PN a 15 yard penalty after they ruled it a touchdown.

There is a crucial distinction to be made between a ref's judgement call in applying a rule where there is room for discretion, compared to a ref applying rules where there is no room for discretion. The illegal touching call falls in the former category and is reasonably excusable. The granting of an untimed down because of the intentional grounding call falls in the latter category, and is not reasonably excusable.

 

[bgoss6474]

Judgment call vs. misapplication of rules.
Two different things.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[TPF523]

What about the call 2:00 before game expired and North scores a touchdown and ref calls a bs penalty saying he went out of bounce and gave PN a 15 yard penalty after they ruled it a touchdown. He never stepped out on film. Would the game be overturned if qb never throws ball in air and gets a safety??!!
Who wins?
Exactly

You know it won't change anything and PN will still play for the state championship even if you admit Fenwick got screwed. Your kids played great but even the IHSA admitted Fenwick should have won. No use trying to rationalize it, you only make yourself look petty.

 

[bgoss6474]

You know it won't change anything and PN will still play for the state championship even if you admit Fenwick got screwed. Your kids played great but even the IHSA admitted Fenwick should have won. No use trying to rationalize it, you only make yourself look petty.

Agreed, it'd be better to avoid cognitive dissonance.

 

[Prowler2018]

You know it won't change anything and PN will still play for the state championship even if you admit Fenwick got screwed. Your kids played great but even the IHSA admitted Fenwick should have won. No use trying to rationalize it, you only make yourself look petty.

I think even worse is they took 5 mins to discuss getting the application of the rule incorrect, not a snap judgement call. Just a plain case of a set of officials not knowing the rules they had just been refreshed on. All we can say is good luck ICCP...hopefully no fireworks on your game next week with them.

 

[JLPlayer73]

If this is the crew for the class 3A championship game, ICCP should demand a replacement crew based on the IHSA's statement. If these gentlemen had any honor what-so-every, they would turn in their officiating credentials and stripes tomorrow.

I know there are a number of officials doing great work out there. Crews like this are the "apples that spoil the bunch".

This was just so very wrong, and can never be made right...

 

[RockSoup]

Wow. This is incredibly horrible. Speechless.

Don't understand the posters mentioning past 'bad' calls to this -- getting the rules of the game completely and admittedly wrong.

The IHSA then has the chance to make the clear, simple, and completely justified decision to award the victory to the team that, BY RULE, led after regulation. I even waited to post because I thought it just had to be overturned no matter how hard it would have been for PN to hear, the game was wrongly continued.

 

[Mateesen14]

I do not blame the officials all that much, I would bet that less than a handful of officials in the whole state know each and every part of the rule book inside and out...but how is there not an IHSA committee member in the booth or on the sidelines of a semi final game with a rule book as a reference. it was probably a minute between the call and pfn last play, but I wonder if IHSA knew the mistake during the 5 minutes between regulation and overtime

 

[SiuCubFan8]

These games are for the Kids, get it right when adults don't know the rules....

 

[gobucsgo]

Bones.

I thought the calls were pretty good.
And there were two block on the backs on The punt return.

No. I am not here to argue a call 20 some years ago.

I feel for both sides. For no matter the IHSA has been put in just a very bad box.

There aren't any winners on this one.

 

[Mateesen14]

These games are for the Kids, get it right when adults don't know the rules....

I just stated I don't blame the refs for not knowing the rules, this is something that most enjoy doing for extra cash. The disappointing part is ihsa saying they can't do anything about it when they easily could

 

[WhiteSox129]

Didn't watch the game but based on this thread it sounds awfully similar to LWN/Wheaton South in 2014

 

[Mateesen14]

If this is the crew for the class 3A championship game, ICCP should demand a replacement crew based on the IHSA's statement. If these gentlemen had any honor what-so-every, they would turn in their officiating credentials and stripes tomorrow.

I know there are a number of officials doing great work out there. Crews like this are the "apples that spoil the bunch".

This was just so very wrong, and can never be made right...

Is this a notoriously bad crew? By reputation? I couldn't imagine this could happen at state with all "big dawgs" in house, or at least a rule book on the sideline

 

[TPF523]

I do not blame the officials all that much, I would bet that less than a handful of officials in the whole state know each and every part of the rule book inside and out...but how is there not an IHSA committee member in the booth or on the sidelines of a semi final game with a rule book as a reference. it was probably a minute between the call and pfn last play, but I wonder if IHSA knew the mistake during the 5 minutes between regulation and overtime

It was at least 5 minutes between the call and the kick. Let alone overtime.

 

[RockSoup]

I just stated I don't blame the refs for not knowing the rules, this is something that most enjoy doing for extra cash. The disappointing part is ihsa saying they can't do anything about it when they easily could

You are correct but 'easily' is the wrong word. It would not be easy to correct the error for the Plainfield North community that is on cloud nine for a trip downstate.

While it wouldn't be easy, it is extremely justifiable to all parties concerned.

 

[HEY BEER]

Has a IL high school game ever ended like this before?

 

[Mateesen14]

It was at least 5 minutes between the call and the kick. Let alone overtime.

Well that is pretty unfortunate, I feel for those kids. It will last forever. I was at Maine South in 2001 when we played fog bowl at downers South in semis and they got an extra 20 seconds in the last minute, but if we could have stopped them it doesn't matter and there was ridiculous elements...this is a whole other issue of an incorrect ruling

 

[Mateesen14]

You are correct but 'easily' is the wrong word. It would not be easy to correct the error for the Plainfield North community that is on cloud nine for a trip downstate.

While it wouldn't be easy, it is extremely justifiable to all parties concerned.

It could easily be done an hour or two after the game...unfortunately 6 hours later they are not going to change it

 

[Cross Bones]

The issue here is that some want to parse between one bad call or another when IMO they're all the same because they have the ability to impact the result of the game. Once we open the door of reversing a ref's call you cant nor should you be able to put that toothpaste back in the tube. Unfortunately for Fenwick that's the reality of the matter.

Refs make mistakes sometimes, it's part of the game. I'm sure they're eager to get back out there next week and call a good game. Without the Stripes we dont have a game. Everyone who think's it's easy to memorize the whole football rulebook should do what @goomsback has done and become a ref.

As for Fenwick, if they have coaching and hard work they'll be back next year.

 

[lucy3379]

One thing that surprised me was how fast the flag came out....almost like he anticipated it and new the rule? It seems typical of a grounding call to to take some time before the flag is thrown but this was out right away. Something even more ironic and pretty sure it's irrelevant to this, but the head referee is a board member at Bradley HS.

 

[ref2]

Aren't there protests allowed in Baseball?

No

 

[doctor_d]

If this is the crew for the class 3A championship game, ICCP should demand a replacement crew based on the IHSA's statement. If these gentlemen had any honor what-so-every, they would turn in their officiating credentials and stripes tomorrow.

I know there are a number of officials doing great work out there. Crews like this are the "apples that spoil the bunch".

This was just so very wrong, and can never be made right...

ICCP will beat the bejeebers out of Carlinville no matter who the refs are.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Pretty sure this is the same crew that worked that 2011 Montini JCA 70-45 game... it's a good crew that made a mistake

 

[HRCJR]

You can narrow the scope of this kind of law so that it wouldn't result in "triple shifts every day all fall". The current law seems aimed at ensuring that they never have to deal with any difficult situations.

During Little League Tournament Play (All Star team that end up in the LIttle League World Series) there is a system where a team can challenge the APPLICATION of a rule. Teams can call the head of the district, region or Williamsport to get clarification of a rule. On certain days there may be a couple thousand games going on.

Not that difficult to have the head rules people available for a consult on the application when you have no more 128 games going during the playoffs on the first weekend. The past 2 days. 16 games.

The fact that an official did not pull out a rulebook is appalling.

Many of my son's best friends play for Fenwick. He said he has absolutely no idea what to say to them.

 

[HRCJR]

The issue here is that some want to parse between one bad call or another when IMO they're all the same because they have the ability to impact the result of the game. Once we open the door of reversing a ref's call you cant nor should you be able to put that toothpaste back in the tube. Unfortunately for Fenwick that's the reality of the matter.

Refs make mistakes sometimes, it's part of the game. I'm sure they're eager to get back out there next week and call a good game. Without the Stripes we dont have a game. Everyone who think's it's easy to memorize the whole football rulebook should do what @goomsback has done and become a ref.

As for Fenwick, if they have coaching and hard work they'll be back next year.

Why didn't they open the rulebook? If they did then the game is over and Fenwick goes to the championship game.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

You want to see the 4 boys I'm with right now? I won't slow my roll, jobs will be called for by hundreds of Fenwick people. Whether you think that HS football is a legitimate reason to be upset and lose jobs is irrelevant, the officials are in a paid position. That payment needs to cease.

You're acting as if I'm saying they should be harmed, I'm not.

Aren't you the same guy who was accusing our QBs family of "throwing money around" on a kid at his first semester ever in a non-public HS? Now you are at the other end calling for money to be thrown around by Fenwick boosters and the state to ultimately cause multiple experienced officials to lose their livelihoods because of a single call? Feel bad for kids on both sides, but your tirade on this board is satisfying to watch in light of your comments the other night.

 

[corey90]

Why didn't they open the rulebook? If they did then the game is over and Fenwick goes to the championship game.

I think everyone is missing the point. The IHSA will not overturn this as I see it. The reason is simple they feel if they reverse the ruling their will more to follow. Right or wrong and from what I am hearing this was dead wrong but fat chance they change the come.

I hate to see or hear about a team ending a season like this for the kids sake. Work hard all year just to have it taken away by the Refs bad call and not knowing the rules.

 

[Wassup13]

The simple solution is to add a 2nd game at Soldier Field and call it the 1st annual Suburban Private/Public school game.

It would be Fenwick v Palatine and I know the Fenwick kids would love to play at Soldier Field and may forget all about this.

Wassup

 

[RichieRebel]

I feel bad for all the parties involved!
IHSA is in a no win situation!
Should they consider the facts and attempt to come up with a compromise?
What compromise is out there that all the parties could agree on???
????????????????
Any ideas or suggestions????