The 15 mile radius should apply only athletes at worst. The lake really limits MS and LA. Not being able to have out of state students really hurts schools like MC and ESTL.
Amendment Proposals IHSA
- Thread starter sporthog9er
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Anyone know if football coach's association has weighed in on this with members? I have seen that the baseball and softball association sent something to coaches asking them to contact principals on voting no for their proposals.
I would hope some of this gets shut down completely, but principals have to be on board with the votes.
I would hope some of this gets shut down completely, but principals have to be on board with the votes.
Yeah, I don't like this one, either.
As we have been told time and again, the IHSA is an association of member SCHOOLS, not of students. If it were students, then huge schools like Waukegan and Stevenson would have far more power and influence within the IHSA than they do now because of their size. Instead, since it is an association of schools and not students, the tiniest Illinois school has the same vote as the largest school.
Since it is an association of member SCHOOLS, then the championship series and playoffs are for member schools, all of which are LOCATED in Illinois. It has NEVER BEEN for students residing in Illinois, exclusively.
As you point out, this amendment is a big deal, especially for schools like St Francis deSales, Mt Carmel and Marian Catholic, all of which have enrolled students from NW Indiana for DECADES. Many of those students live well within the proposed 15 mile radius. It sets up a scenario whereby an Illinois kid can travel 15 miles (30 under the current rules) to Marian Catholic and be eligible to compete in athletics but s/he can't do the same if s/he lives in Dyer, IN, just 7 miles away from Marian.
So much for the safety rationale behind the proposed 15 mile radius amendment, huh? Must be twice as safe to travel from Dyer to Marian than from Sandburg High School in Orland Park, 14 miles from Marian. What a crock of crap! What really takes the cake is that the three school administrators who proposed the 15 mile radius amendment while citing safety as their lone rationale are the SAME THREE administrators proposing the Illinois kids only amendment.
Perhaps the IHSA, as concerned as it is about fairness and level playing fields, would consider increasing the Illinois portion of the radii belonging to private schools like Mt Carmel and Marian Catholic, since their radii extend far into NW Indiana, but they can't have any eligible student athletes from there under the proposed amendment. Also, let's not forget about extending the radii for:
- Cristo Rey St Martin, 10 miles from Wisconsin and already with far less than a full radius because of their Waukegan location 2.6 miles from Lake Michigan. How fair is it that Montini benefits from a full radius but Cristo Rey St. Martin doesn't?
- Illinois Lutheran, located 5.5 miles from Indiana.
- Alleman Catholic High School, located 2.5 miles from Iowa.
- Marquette Catholic High School, located in Alton just 4,400 feet from Missouri.
This amendment sucks too.
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They are winning the sports that nobody cares abount.. congratsActually Hinsdale Central is the all time leader.
MaxPreps Cup: Hinsdale Central of Illinois takes over lead for top high school athletic programs in the nation
MaxPreps News - Red Devils won state titles in boys and girls golf, finished second in girls tennis.www.maxpreps.com
The kind of sports that you claim as reasons why the private schools should allow the public school controlled IHSA to run championships exclusively for private schools. 🙄
Please tell us what sports it is that EVERYONE cares about? Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they don't count. Also, as it relates to this post any IHSA proposals regarding adjustments to private schools would effect ALL sports, not just football. No matter what sports they are 685 titles is damn impressive. The IHSA was founded in 1900 so if we assume the records date back to then HC has averaged 5.5 state titles per year over the course of 122 years.
That post answered your question. Now you move the goal posts by changing the question. After you get rid of the privates how do you get rid of LWE, MS, ESL, Rochester, etc. Because 99% of the public still won't win a title?
I was unhappy when the IHSA got Lacrosse in their tentacles. I was hoping that they would have stayed independent like ice hockey. Probably the best run state final is the Illinois Hockey Coaches Tournament. Rocky Wirtz lets them put on a good show. And ticket prices are very low.
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Most of the guys like FCHS2019, aka HHSTigerFan, don't care about titles, because most of their schools simply don't put in the work needed to get that far. They know this, but they will never admit it.
What really gets them foaming at the mouth more than anything else, though, is getting bounced anywhere in the playoffs by private schools. Playoff losses to private schools make them feel cheated that a private school made up of all stars kept them from their chance at winning a state title, even though their school had less than a snowball's chance in hell of winning one. It doesn't matter if that private school loses to a public school in the very next round -- the fans whose school was defeated by the private school still feel cheated.
A
The other thing that everybody ignores is that private schools are just as variable as public schools. The ones who want to regulate them right out of competition rather than put in the work to improve their own programs act like they are all the same. Springfield has three private high schools within a THREE mile radius, all IHSA members. Only one plays football and there is a large variation in enrollment
But the main difference is that they are operated by three different religious organizations with large variations in beliefs. Families choose them for reasons far from (at least in most cases) sports. Those who would regulate their way to superiority choose to ignore this simplest of facts
To the best of my knowledge only two football coaches have been suspended by I(P)HSA for recruiting violations and both were public school coaches. If private schools were doing even a tiny fraction of what the haters were spouting, even the world's most incompetent regulators couldn't miss it. Where there's smoke there is usually fire, but invisible smoke is indicative of nothing but an overheated imagination.
The other thing that everybody ignores is that private schools are just as variable as public schools. The ones who want to regulate them right out of competition rather than put in the work to improve their own programs act like they are all the same. Springfield has three private high schools within a THREE mile radius, all IHSA members. Only one plays football and there is a large variation in enrollment
But the main difference is that they are operated by three different religious organizations with large variations in beliefs. Families choose them for reasons far from (at least in most cases) sports. Those who would regulate their way to superiority choose to ignore this simplest of facts
Higher property tax bases. There's a hell of a big difference in per pupil funding between ( just for example) LWW and Dupo
Dupo!!!!’
i just hope the boys battle as hard this weekend as you old men are on this thread.
Agreed and field hockey state tourney is really well run too. not IHSA run either.
All of this BS about schools not putting in work is just that. 99% of football coaches are working as hard as possible to advance their teams as far as possible.
Feel like a lot of us put that work in this week here! Nothing like an attack on private schools to get the board riled up.
Who is saying schools or coaches are not putting in work? Certainly not me.
What I SAID is that most schools don't put in the work that is needed to win titles. Prove me wrong.
Do you want to take the position that 99% of the kids and 99% of the coaches ALL work EQUALLY hard, leaving no room for any difference of work quantity and quality between 500 head coaches, even more assistant coaches, and tens of thousands of kids? I'd love to discuss that further if you are game.
How clueless are you??? While most don't care, the kids still do and the IHSA still puts on a quality tourament that will be WAY better than anythng the private schools would do the kids... but hey, your ego is more important than the kids..
Again, showing how clueless you are about downstate small school sports that you want to change, 100% clueless.
to say schools like Herscher don't put in the same effort is insane and disrespectful to the kids and the coaches.
I get it, you like having an edge over almost all of the IHSA schools and you don't want to give that up because that makes you feel better about yourself..
I kinda disagree with you that these elite programs just outwork everyone else. There are a lot of factors at play, but coaching is a big benefit and having elite players imo is really the answer. You look at the top programs and they’ve built a good program that attracted elite players. Publics, privates, it doesn’t matter.
If you’re putting in 10% above what other schools are putting in, of course that will be beneficial, but in the end Talent is King in order to win championships.
I'd put it this way. Any coach worth hiring is working his ass off. But what some are saying is that many school districts, administrators and especially penny pinching BOARDS are NOT giving their coaches AND KIDS the wherewithal they need to succeed. To a degree it may be about money BUT I'd wager that the average.private school coach is not paid as well as a union scale public school counterparts- hell, I'd even say MOST are not. Support is not all about money. But substandard facilities and equipment and even lack of moral support are just as big.
I don’t really think it matters. Rochester and Lena Winslow do just fine with lower property taxes
It is not insane to say that schools like Herscher do not put in the same effort. It's reality.
What is insane is for you to imply that, in a group of 500+ plus football playing schools, everyone is working at the same level all the time. They just don't.
Perhaps HHS was into it up to and after week one when they won their season opener, but then it was one loss after another for the Tigers from there on through the end of a 1-8 season, one year after a 2-7 season. Ouch. I'm not suggesting by any stretch that they gave up, but for you to claim that every single person in that program continued firing on all cylinders all the time just as much as they would have if they were in the fight to make the playoffs and fighting for a good seed is simply ignoring human nature. It's really, really hard to stay 100% motivated when your half full glass is that things can't get much worse. Most people simply are not up to that task.
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Diminishing the accomplishments of student-athletes (READ: children) in other sports because you want to make a football point is probably one of the worst things I’ve read.
And it’s awful. At the end of the day this board is adults with zero skin in the game talking about kids and adults whose primary job is as an educator, not getting Johnny and Bobby to Ohio State.
The lack of perspective sometimes is nauseating.
Coaching is absolutely a big benefit.
Would you agree with me that some coaches outwork others? Would you agree that many coaches whose teams are 1-7 or 2-6 in week 9 might not be putting in the EXACT SAME amount of effort as that same coach would have made in years where his team makes the playoffs if they win their 9th game and misses the playoffs if they lose? C'mon. Be real here.
Having elite players helps, but having the right coaches who know how to motivate and get the most out of those elite players is key.
How was it that a tiny school like Carthage built a football dynasty with 9 title game appearances, six state championships, and a semi final loss in a 15 year period from 1995-2010? Was it the elite players that small school kept drawing year after year? Was it something in the Carthage water that changed during that time? Or was it the coaching?
Oh, by the way, in the 11 seasons with playoffs since Jim Unruh's last season as head coach at Carthage in 2010, the school has not made it past round two. During that span, they have failed to qualify for the playoffs four times. How was it that the well of elite players dried up so quickly?
I think you can have the exact same coach build a program in the exact same duration in two different schools and end up with two completely different results.
Championships are a by product of elite talent. I think your argument is valid to be a good program. But if your a program thats in a championship game 5 times in a decade or a dozen years that isn’t just outworking your peers. It can certainly be helped by that but it’s because you’ve had better players come through the door.
LWE, Loyola, MC, JCA, MS, Batavia, ESTL… these types of programs aren’t just better because they outwork programs. They are better because the best players in the state want to play for their programs imo.
So, what happened at Carthage? How is it that their well of elite players dried up ONE SEASON after their successful coach left? Are you trying to say that it was simply an unfortunate coincidence?
Maybe the coach who left was very good at bringing in talent and the next one wasn’t as good at keeping that talent. Since you are so familiar with that Carthage program, what was their record 1st yr with a new coach vs last year with the stud coach? No player transfers?
As I said before, coaching definitely helps and is a factor in building a good program. I still believe elite talent puts a school from good/great to perennial champ contender.
If you want to find a 1A program from 25 years ago like Carthage to make your argument, go right ahead.
Last three years with the stud coach were 14-0, 12-1, and 14-0 with two state titles. First year with the new coach was 5-5.
I couldn't have scripted that exchange any better.
I have no idea about any player transfers. Is that what you are going to hang your hat on now?
Believe what you want.
Carthage was 3A in Unruh's last four seasons. He left them after the 2010 season, 12 years ago.
Prior to Derek Leonard's arrival at Rochester, that school had an all-time playoff record of 5-5 and never advanced past the quarterfinals. After Leonard's arrival, the school has complied a playoff record of 52-7 with seven 4A titles and one 5A title. Where were all those elite players in the pre-Leonard years?
I don't know for sure, but I've always been told Rochester has the highest property tax rates in Sangamon County
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So now were comparing HOF coaches woth non HOF coaches? And the difference between HOF coaches is that they just work harder? Lol.
Clearly any program benefits from having a HOF coach over a non HOF coach. My whole argument is programs that have similar level of coaching. The difference isn’t that Coach X puts in 10 more hours of film a day, it’s that Coach X has better players.
If your arguing whether having a HOF coach or not is a difference maker to a program i’m very happy to agree with you!
The elite players weren’t at Rochester pre-Leonard because those elite players had no reason to be at Rochester pre-Leonard…
Clearly any program benefits from having a HOF coach over a non HOF coach. My whole argument is programs that have similar level of coaching. The difference isn’t that Coach X puts in 10 more hours of film a day, it’s that Coach X has better players.
If your arguing whether having a HOF coach or not is a difference maker to a program i’m very happy to agree with you!
The elite players weren’t at Rochester pre-Leonard because those elite players had no reason to be at Rochester pre-Leonard…
Well that explains a lot. When I was at Griffin High School we had great marching band and our football teams were 6-3, 3-6, 3-6 and 2-7.
SHG's bands for the last 40 years went fron bad to worse to nonexistent.
Leonard develops talent like non other. Rochester is 4a and has had the most D1 qbs over the past 10 years.
So Leonard is getting the exact same talent batch coming in as freshman as pre-Leonard era and he is just turning the exact same talent from nobodies into D1 talent?
I don’t disagree that Leonard doesn’t develop talent, but I don’t buy that he is working with the same clay as his predecessors…. And thats kudos to Leonard for building the program to attract that level of talent now.
Let’s take this argument… Leonards first few years how many championships did he win? Did he win as man as the program is winning after it got into full swing? I’m guessing it took a few years to win the first. Does that mean Leonard wasn’t working as hard years 1 and 2 compared to when they won a few years ago? No, he coached just as hard as year 1 as he did one of the championship years. The difference was he had more talent the champ yr than his 1st or 2nd year.
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You need to develop the program first and get things started in the grade school. You have that Qb starting to learn the position in 5th grade and by the time he’s in HS he’s an all stater and a college prospect.
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