Soucie Districts

[doctor_d]

I guess CPS in 3A playoffs won't happen any more if this district holds true.

One of them would get a spot. It’s top 4, right?
Would any of these CPS programs be able to stay the process to build up and compete? Legit question. Obviously it would take some time, unless one of these schools became a “destination” school like Phillips was for a while.

 

[HotBeer]

Wow, finally looked at the actual districts in the article. There is a real chance that nearly every single CCL/ESCC school makes the playoffs perennially under the districts as shown. Also a real chance that many CPS programs just simply shut down.

A school like DeLaSalle is going to run through that district. Leo would have a real shot at making the playoffs in theirs. in 5A-D2, Carmel, DePaul, Pats, and Viator will be duking it out for some combination of the top 4 spots. I doubt Prosser (currently in the lowest level of CPS football - Blue) or Chicago Academy (1 win as a coop this year) even field football teams after a year of 50% CCL opponents.

Not making a value judgement on either of these observations, but it's the truth.

 

[MS4EVER]

Can’t read it. Can someone post who MS would play? Thanks

 

[4Afan]

Can’t read it. Can someone post who MS would play? Thanks

If you close the pop ups it should be a free article you can see. MS district is below.

MS
Evanston
Glenbrook South
Leyden
Loyola
New Trier
Niles West
Taft

 

[HotBeer]

One of them would get a spot. It’s top 4, right?
Would any of these CPS programs be able to stay the process to build up and compete? Legit question. Obviously it would take some time, unless one of these schools became a “destination” school like Phillips was for a while.

You would by default get 1 CPS team out of D2 and 1 out of D3 in 3A. I don't know enough about Lisle or the D3 schools to comment on if a CPS school could realistically top them in the standings and get a second one in the playoffs.

The tough thing about most 3A and below CPS schools is that they are "dying" schools. Most of those schools have way more kids 10 years ago and have been slowly bleeding enrollment for years. Marshall, Crane, and Dunbar used to be athletic powerhouses playing in the top level of CPS football.

 

[crazylegs777]

Disagree with this. The number of CPS in the playoffs will plummet. The winning % of CPS overall would plummet. I can't imagine many CPS schools being in favor if this.

Look at the district with JCA mentioned above. You think Brooks and Ag Science want that conference?

The Grand Puba will just have to deal with it

 

[Lion4Life01]

Wow, finally looked at the actual districts in the article. There is a real chance that nearly every single CCL/ESCC school makes the playoffs perennially under the districts as shown. Also a real chance that many CPS programs just simply shut down.

A school like DeLaSalle is going to run through that district. Leo would have a real shot at making the playoffs in theirs. in 5A-D2, Carmel, DePaul, Pats, and Viator will be duking it out for some combination of the top 4 spots. I doubt Prosser (currently in the lowest level of CPS football - Blue) or Chicago Academy (1 win as a coop this year) even field football teams after a year of 50% CCL opponents.

Not making a value judgement on either of these observations, but it's the truth.

I was thinking this too, making some people who are against the Catholic schools even more angry. This will undoubtedly put the vast majority of the Catholic schools in the playoffs every year, instead of them beating up on each other all year.

 

[crazylegs777]

You would by default get 1 CPS team out of D2 and 1 out of D3 in 3A. I don't know enough about Lisle or the D3 schools to comment on if a CPS school could realistically top them in the standings and get a second one in the playoffs.

The tough thing about most 3A and below CPS schools is that they are "dying" schools. Most of those schools have way more kids 10 years ago and have been slowly bleeding enrollment for years. Marshall, Crane, and Dunbar used to be athletic powerhouses playing in the top level of CPS football.

Bogan too. Now they have trouble fielding a team

 

[doctor_d]

You would by default get 1 CPS team out of D2 and 1 out of D3 in 3A. I don't know enough about Lisle or the D3 schools to comment on if a CPS school could realistically top them in the standings and get a second one in the playoffs.

In D3, Wilmington won 2A 2 of the last 3 years and would be one of the top 3A contenders (not named Byron - wow are they loaded). Peotone is a playoff team on a regular basis, but typically has a lower seed and gets bounced by an upper echelon team in the first or second round. Herscher and Lisle used to be somewhat similar to Peotone, but have fallen on tougher times. Herscher has a better tradition than Lisle.
Any of the above mentioned teams would probably running clock any of the 3A level CPS teams I’ve ever seen, which were all playoff qualifiers.

 

[skinsfootball]

Brutal. JCA's district would consist of

Agricultural Science
Brooks
Hillcrest
Joliet Catholic
Marian Catholic
Morgan Park
Thornridge
Tinley Park

JCA could go years without losing a game in that district.

If this were to stick the good news is there are options to strengthen the schedule. Add a couple top 6-8A teams as your 2 non-district competitions.
Still not enough? Petition up. JCA would do just fine in 6A….

 

[Snetsrak61]

Not sure how free Carmel and JCA are to just move conferences or go independent. I think they have as much choice as everyone else will if districts pass.

Huh? Of course Carmel and JCA have freedom to switch conferences now. In districts they'll get plopped where the IHSA wants (within confines of the bylaw as written)

 

[Snetsrak61]

If this were to stick the good news is there are options to strengthen the schedule. Add a couple top 6-8A teams as your 2 non-district competitions.
Still not enough? Petition up. JCA would do just fine in 6A….

Every school will be unique of course, but it could be hard to even know where a school would wind up if they petition up. Like speaking for Naz as an example, they're close enough to Chicago that in either 5A or 6A they could end up in a weak,heavily CPS division. There really isn't self determination in that respect. At best you're just kind of hoping.

 

[greatgig13]

I’m sure it’s a great read if I wanted to subscribe.

 

[brucealmighy]

I’m sure it’s a great read if I wanted to subscribe.

Just click the reader view as soon as you open the link

 

[daveje]

In 8a district 8 Lockport to Belleville East is 550 miles round trip. In district 7 LWE may not lose a game in our lifetime.

You mean, the way it is now unless they are playing Loyola?

 

[johnndoe]

I still don't really understand what the districts do but I do think it gives a better playoff picture.
Why would the state not want Rita and MC in the same district?
I wonder if this will push CPS to move teams out of the IHSA playoffs for football and into an internal Prep Bowl thing.

Do we think there is any chance some in the CCL/ESCC might be thinking the same thing?

 

[greatgig13]

I guess for the school I back, CG, I’m not not bothered by adding a couple Belvidere schools and one Rockford school to a district. Not that far to travel and really a few more 6A matchups over some current 7 and 8A is moot. I can see where other districts are a bit out of whack.

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

Disagree with this. The number of CPS in the playoffs will plummet. The winning % of CPS overall would plummet. I can't imagine many CPS schools being in favor if this.

Look at the district with JCA mentioned above. You think Brooks and Ag Science want that conference?

I think the majority of CPS teams want to play football against the best competition possible. Contrary to popular opinion on this forum, my experience as a CPS fan tells me that these teams want to be relevant in the state and not just in some non playoff CPS only experience. And yes, I do think that both Brooks and Ag would want to measure themselves in that district.

 

[treyuc25]

The only way this works is if they combine two levels together to get the travel down. Pair 8 with 7, 6 with 5 and so on. Its not going to be perfect but It is the only way i see it actually working.

 

[Snetsrak61]

The only way this works is if they combine two levels together to get the travel down. Pair 8 with 7, 6 with 5 and so on. Its not going to be perfect but It is the only way i see it actually working.

Honestly the biggest issue is the Southwestern conference. If ESL were able to opt up to 7A like they want, you have a perfect 7A/8A district from those and two other STL metro schools. There may be a few bad outliers in smaller rural districts, but those conferences tend to travel far distances as is (probably still shorter travel time than some Chicago differences). I guess some of the centrally located 6A/7A schools are a bit bad too, especially in a hypothetical where the 7A SW conferences could play on a new home.

So add an addendum.

Grant the IHSA the ability to create split districts of no more than 2 classes for the express purpose of reducing travel times. You could create a guideline like must reduce travel time by 40% compared to alternative district. If you're a small school in a big district you qualify for the bigger class if you're top 2 in your district, otherwise you qualify for the smaller class. If you're a bigger school in a split district you qualify for the actual district size you are. For playoff points and seeding purposes, perhaps apply a 20% premium or discount, respectively.

Might also reduce the pressure to have exactly eight, eight team districts in each class since that math is likely to cause issues. You can have uneven and split districts and less than 8 districts per class. If auto qualifiers don't fill up a class you can move bottom record/PP qualifiers down or add at large bids to fill out the 64 in each class.

Still would have other issues with districts, but that's a somewhat path of least resistance option for geographic and travel concerns. It could even be used as a justification to keep historical district rivalries together when one edge school goes through a moderate enrollment boom or loss: just keep 'em together. Some 50 student variance in a large class ain't running competitive balance.

 

[ignazio]

Why don’t we start small - have one assigned game - week 9? Play whoever you want before then.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Why don’t we start small - have one assigned game - week 9? Play whoever you want before then.

256 2 team districts 😂. Is that an auto qualifier if you win your district?

 

[HotBeer]

I think the majority of CPS teams want to play football against the best competition possible. Contrary to popular opinion on this forum, my experience as a CPS fan tells me that these teams want to be relevant in the state and not just in some non playoff CPS only experience. And yes, I do think that both Brooks and Ag would want to measure themselves in that district.

I only partially agree with this...

CPS teams want to compete in the state playoffs and win a state championship. Every kid that plays football (CPS or otherwise) gets to campus as a freshman and thinks they are going to win a state championship as a senior. That's the magic and myth of a state championships - for most it's an awesome symbolic goal to work hard at.

Phillips, however anomalous those teams might have been, proved it could be done (twice!) out of the CPS. There are plenty of conferences with much longer droughts and many that have never won state. So yes, CPS schools (the athletes and coaches) don't want to be treated like some inept pariah.

I'm sure if you showed that district to the players at Ag or Brooks, they would say "bring it"... but let me tell you something, getting your ass kicked week in and week out year after year will extinguish that attitude pretty quickly. Especially when the teams you are playing have 4x the number of players on the sideline, 10x the number of fans in the stands.

If this goes through, I really hope that some CPS team that get "stranded" in suburban conferences can elevate their game and use it as a catalyst. I think some will be able to - Lane, Taft, MP, I think schools with facilities and a football tradition might be able to make the jump and benefit from the enhanced competition. Sadly I think for the majority of CPS teams it is going to be nothing more than VERY demoralizing.

 

[RameyJacoby]

The mock district that Wilmington is in is straight up awful

Wilmo
Peotone
Herscher
Carver
Julian
Noble/Hansberry
Noble/Johnson
CICS-Longwood

I can't lie this conference would be circus, So play the game and come see what Chicago has going on, and do it all over again (TGIF Katy Perry)

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

I only partially agree with this...

CPS teams want to compete in the state playoffs and win a state championship. Every kid that plays football (CPS or otherwise) gets to campus as a freshman and thinks they are going to win a state championship as a senior. That's the magic and myth of a state championships - for most it's an awesome symbolic goal to work hard at.

Phillips, however anomalous those teams might have been, proved it could be done (twice!) out of the CPS. There are plenty of conferences with much longer droughts and many that have never won state. So yes, CPS schools (the athletes and coaches) don't want to be treated like some inept pariah.

I'm sure if you showed that district to the players at Ag or Brooks, they would say "bring it"... but let me tell you something, getting your ass kicked week in and week out year after year will extinguish that attitude pretty quickly. Especially when the teams you are playing have 4x the number of players on the sideline, 10x the number of fans in the stands.

If this goes through, I really hope that some CPS team that get "stranded" in suburban conferences can elevate their game and use it as a catalyst. I think some will be able to - Lane, Taft, MP, I think schools with facilities and a football tradition might be able to make the jump and benefit from the enhanced competition. Sadly I think for the majority of CPS teams it is going to be nothing more than VERY demoralizing.

Fair. Though I think it would be equally demoralizing to play football on a Thursday afternoon at 3:30 in front of 7 fans on a field without lights, yet a bunch of kids do it every week. I also think it would be demoralizing to constantly be told that you can't compete with other kids your age, and somehow have to be put in a "special" conference outside of the rest of the state. That's not only demoralizing, that is flat out insulting. Honestly, I think it would be more inspiring to go to those places and compete with those non CPS teams, but I'm still a believer that there are a bunch of kids that need football more than football needs them.

 

[stripes13]

I have zero complaints about players opting out of bowls. I'm sure a lot of bowls are still mildly money making endeavors and will limp on because it's still better TV programming than some syndicated re-run.

If the big NY6 bowls want to be a bigger draw, it seems obvious what the solution is. Players have to be financially incentivized.

Real Sports did a segment years ago on just how much money, as an example, the people who are on the Music City Bowl committee make. This was before NIL, but most bowl games are money making operations for 50 year old advertising executives who want to cheat on their wife with a college aged chick.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Real Sports did a segment years ago on just how much money, as an example, the people who are on the Music City Bowl committee make. This was before NIL, but most bowl games are money making operations for 50 year old advertising executives who want to cheat on their wife with a college aged chick.

And that's definitely enough to keep it limping on lol. And so zero judgment for a college player seeing it's not about them or their team.

 

[HotBeer]

Fair. Though I think it would be equally demoralizing to play football on a Thursday afternoon at 3:30 in front of 7 fans on a field without lights, yet a bunch of kids do it every week. I also think it would be demoralizing to constantly be told that you can't compete with other kids your age, and somehow have to be put in a "special" conference outside of the rest of the state. That's not only demoralizing, that is flat out insulting. Honestly, I think it would be more inspiring to go to those places and compete with those non CPS teams, but I'm still a believer that there are a bunch of kids that need football more than football needs them.

Idk man. When you're in the blue conference, it's win and get out. Those kids know MP or Simeon would demolish them. The teams that pull together, win, and get promoted to the white accomplished something really cool, and now get to set their sights on making the state tournament. For a kid to start in the blue, win, get promoted, and make the state playoffs - that's a great run of success.

I agree that a lot of these kids need football more than it needs them, and I agree that playing on a Thursday afternoon is a bummer. But man, half of the teams in the blue couldn't even finish their season! Only THREE TEAMS in the blue played 9 games this season there were so many forfeits. At least on a Thursday in the blue, these kids get to run their offense, compete, complete a few passes, etc. If you catch a touchdown pass on Thursday night against Bogan, that's what you're talking about all weekend, not how the field didn't have lights!

If Tilden or Gage Park lines up against Lena-Winslow or Wilmington or Byron each week, they aren't going to gain a yard. Some of these blue teams can't afford to lose a few guys to injury. If you want to keep the kids involved at these programs that are really struggling, FIRST order of business is keeping them on the field and actually playing ball, not getting massacred 65 miles outside of Chicago for week after week, that's gonna have the opposite effect.

On the scheduling thing - only solution there is field fewer teams or build more fields, which helps more than just avoiding Thu games.

 

[wesbreton]

Hinsdale Central and Lyons in separate districts makes no sense. Huge rivalry and they are 5 min apart.

I don't see what problem this solves.

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

Idk man. When you're in the blue conference, it's win and get out. Those kids know MP or Simeon would demolish them. The teams that pull together, win, and get promoted to the white accomplished something really cool, and now get to set their sights on making the state tournament. For a kid to start in the blue, win, get promoted, and make the state playoffs - that's a great run of success.

I agree that a lot of these kids need football more than it needs them, and I agree that playing on a Thursday afternoon is a bummer. But man, half of the teams in the blue couldn't even finish their season! Only THREE TEAMS in the blue played 9 games this season there were so many forfeits. At least on a Thursday in the blue, these kids get to run their offense, compete, complete a few passes, etc. If you catch a touchdown pass on Thursday night against Bogan, that's what you're talking about all weekend, not how the field didn't have lights!

If Tilden or Gage Park lines up against Lena-Winslow or Wilmington or Byron each week, they aren't going to gain a yard. Some of these blue teams can't afford to lose a few guys to injury. If you want to keep the kids involved at these programs that are really struggling, FIRST order of business is keeping them on the field and actually playing ball, not getting massacred 65 miles outside of Chicago for week after week, that's gonna have the opposite effect.

On the scheduling thing - only solution there is field fewer teams or build more fields, which helps more than just avoiding Thu games.

Agreed. The ability to play football, in any way, is huge for these guys.

One thing that will have to change in CPS in a a district format is the ability for a coach and staff to get paid even though they only field a team for 3 games. One of the things that holds a lot of teams back is the CPS system only requiring a minimum of contests to get the coaching stipends - in most sports. The system encourages guys to put in the absolute minimum effort in order to get a check. Unfortunately, the lions share of these minimum effort guys "coach" at the schools where the kids need football the most. As long as this type of minimum effort is allowed to exist, you get teams that aren't remotely competitive and forfeit multiple games. I would think there would be requirements to participate fully in the district before you can field a team in that district. I will fully admit I don't know the current exact number of games a team has to play to get the stipend, but I know these minimum requirements exist. If a team had to play all of the district games, some teams would step up, some teams would fold completely. Either way, I think it strengthens CPS football overall.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Hinsdale Central and Lyons in separate districts makes no sense. Huge rivalry and they are 5 min apart.

I don't see what problem this solves.

Obviously just a mock up, but yea likely to be a lot of cases like that.

Honestly a revision to the proposal to de-emphasize 8 team divisions would help a lot too. Create enough 7 and 9 man districts and Ihsa just has to schedule a bunch of crossovers, but can keep naturally-bound 7 and 9 team pairings together.

And/or make a push for 6 team districts. Should be easier to pair concentric groups and it opens up two extra games for any lost rivalries. In theory it's more OOC scheduling to sort through, but for most schools it probably won't take more than a few years to find a stable 4 team schedule alliance to fill an easy 3 of the 4 OOC games. And way easier to keep stables than 8-12 team conferences.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Obviously just a mock up, but yea likely to be a lot of cases like that.

Honestly a revision to the proposal to de-emphasize 8 team divisions would help a lot too. Create enough 7 and 9 man districts and Ihsa just has to schedule a bunch of crossovers, but can keep naturally-bound 7 and 9 team pairings together.

And/or make a push for 6 team districts. Should be easier to pair concentric groups and it opens up two extra games for any lost rivalries. In theory it's more OOC scheduling to sort through, but for most schools if probably won't take more than a few years to find stable 4 team schedule alliance to fill an easy 3 of the 4 OOC games. And way easier to keep stables than 8-12 team conferences.

Do you think the IHSA actually wants this to pass? This proposal has the the IHSA doing the work of 260 AD's. Several teams do not have their own stadiums. The IHSA would have to find what is available before they are going to start this. I think the people in Bloomington make the Districts as difficult as possible so a motion to reconsider passes easily.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Do you think the IHSA actually wants this to pass? This proposal has the the IHSA doing the work of 260 AD's. Several teams do not have their own stadiums. The IHSA would have to find what is available before they are going to start this. I think the people in Bloomington make the Districts as difficult as possible so a motion to reconsider passes easily.

Maybe. But if their smart they automate any crossover scheduling as much as possible. Doesn't have to be fair equitable or rationale of its gonna impact 1 of 9 games. Teams will care about the district pairing 10x as much as any weird/bad crossover scheduling . And if it makes the initial classification process way easier since they can just cutoff a bunch of pairings at 7 or 9 than do the hard work of where to split off schools...

 

[ramblinman]

If you close the pop ups it should be a free article you can see. MS district is below.

MS
Evanston
Glenbrook South
Leyden
Loyola
New Trier
Niles West
Taft

@MS4EVER What are your thoughts on this proposed district?

Assuming there is no NIPL, and if districts are here to stay, I'm kinda okay with it given the crazy geography of some of the other districts. Love the idea of LA playing MS, ETHS, GBS and NT every year. Ambivalent about NW. Not all that wild about Taft and Leyden, TBH, but it is what it is.

 

[4Afan]

Obviously just a mock up, but yea likely to be a lot of cases like that.

Honestly a revision to the proposal to de-emphasize 8 team divisions would help a lot too. Create enough 7 and 9 man districts and Ihsa just has to schedule a bunch of crossovers, but can keep naturally-bound 7 and 9 team pairings together.

And/or make a push for 6 team districts. Should be easier to pair concentric groups and it opens up two extra games for any lost rivalries. In theory it's more OOC scheduling to sort through, but for most schools it probably won't take more than a few years to find a stable 4 team schedule alliance to fill an easy 3 of the 4 OOC games. And way easier to keep stables than 8-12 team conferences.

One of the reasons districts was proposed was due to scheduling issues. There are teams that can't find two OOC games let alone 4. It happens every year when we're a month away from the season starting and teams still have week 2 openings.

That is due to varying conference sizes. Closed conferences can't schedule any OOC games some have room for 1-3 OOC games, but trying to balance that can be a pain, which is why districts were proposed.

 

[4Afan]

@MS4EVER What are your thoughts on this proposed district?

Assuming there is no NIPL, and if districts are here to stay, I'm kinda okay with it given the crazy geography of some of the other districts. Love the idea of LA playing MS, ETHS, GBS and NT every year. Ambivalent about NW. Not all that wild about Taft and Leyden, TBH, but it is what it is.

Ambivalent, great word.

 

[mc140]

One of the reasons districts was proposed was due to scheduling issues. There are teams that can't find two OOC games let alone 4. It happens every year when we're a month away from the season starting and teams still have week 2 openings.

That is due to varying conference sizes. Closed conferences can't schedule any OOC games some have room for 1-3 OOC games, but trying to balance that can be a pain, which is why districts were proposed.

But with week 1 and 2 mattering for playoff seeding, there will still be issues.

 

[4Afan]

But with week 1 and 2 mattering for playoff seeding, there will still be issues.

Playoff seeding won't change versus what it is now and teams schedule tough games and some schedule cupcakes.

I think the current issues are on finding actual opponents that have the same available dates and not necessarily quality of opponent.

If passed, every school in the state would have the same two open weeks instead of it being varied as it is now. I feel that would make for easier scheduling.

 

[sac'em]

People seem to think that the IHSA is going to be full on scheduling games. Not likely. They will put teams in districts, run AI to do the district schedule as far as who you play (H/A) weeks 3-9, but they won't be scheduling location (CPS/Non-stadium teams) and time. That will still be left up to the ADs. So teams that don't have their own field will be at the mercy of whatever they can fit in. Others can still have Friday Night Lights, Saturday games, whatever.
Look, people don't like change. Its probably one of the biggest fears humans have behind death and being seen naked. If it passes, it will be bumpy. It will require tweaks and adjustments. Might have to combine classes in districts to circumvent some of the longer travel districts. Compromises can be made with open dialogue and respect. But, if the majority of the members want this, it should be planned and followed through with (at least for a few years) so we can either say "Yes, it is better" or "No, lets go back". Its the only way to resolve the issue of the idea. Otherwise, it will come up every year, and we will be talking about complete overhauls rather than adjustments/improvements.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Scheduling in weeks one and two are difficult only because everyone is looking for wins. No one to be the push over everyone wants to play the over push overs. The exceptions are the top 5-8 teams like ESL LWE MS and LA MC SR BR etc..