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(Somewhat) annual first round playoff blowout rant

No, im not arguing that success below 8a is meaningless. But it would certainly be different than what is currently in place today because you are placing them in "competitive classifications" instead of "enrollment classifications". The IHSA, similar to English soccer and EPL, would identify their "premier" teams in their hierarchical classification system. Wins on their way to 8a (or any jump in classification) should be celebrated. But that is also my point. There is a clear incentive or motivation to be in a higher class. Which again would lead one to naturally feel or believe a lower class is inferior. And those feelings or beliefs would be justified the closer you look at how and why each team was placed in the class they were in.
I respect that view. I'd like to imagine that overtime that perception would not become reality.

Hell, we have a proposal for 48 teams to make the playoffs rendering that accomplishment meaningless. At the very least teams would still be winning something across competitive based classes. That's worth celebrating.
 
Back to the main point though, enrollment based classification is no longer an effective form of playoff classification for high school football.

The attempts & failures of the IHSA - football enrollment, success factors, multipliers, etc - are an implicit acknowledgement of that fact.

We're in a new world of player mobility, AAU style 7 on 7 teams, and college recruiting in grade schools. Teams are no longer bound to a competitive level based on the number of kids in their building or the town in which they reside.

If the IHSA ever wants to get serious about addressing the symptoms of the current system (first round blowouts, select schools dominating a given class, decreasing parity in champions) they need to address the root issue of enrollment based classification. They can do it, there's examples of states that have already done it. There's ways, just don't know if there's a will.
 
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I think if you tell Rochester, or their fans, they are a "4a" champion because they beat schools with similar size and resources, its something they can feel proud about.

If you tell Rochester they are the "4a" champion because we also determined there are 128 teams we deemed better than you, it doesn't elicit that same feeling of pride or accomplishment.

Personally, if we adopted that type of system I would prefer to only have those top 32 teams compete in the playoffs. I think there would be a considerable decrease in interest in those other 7 brackets.
All... Interesting the success rule doesn't apply to both sides. (discriminatory of course) Rochester is playing Paris a team that is 1-4 all time in the playoffs and in their 76 year history is .383. Their JFL could give Paris a game. lol This type of mismatch has been going on with Rochester for eons. If you continue the success rule then the application must be equal. If not time to change it up and do a pointing system that puts LIKE teams into postseason play. Rockets would wail on that proposal though..... Ratsy
 
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So you agree that a higher level of football is played in the upper classes currently, but because we classify by enrollment people don't focus on the lower level of football in the lower classes.

Sounds like you are suggesting that we have successfully hoodwinked small schools and their communities into placing greater value on their participation in those lower classes than should actually be placed. And, for that reason, we shouldn't classify competitively lest we let the cat out of the bag??? :rolleyes:
Yes, I would certainly agree with the general statement that 8a qualifiers are better overall than lower classes. However, when you take all your traditional 8a powers, then add your ESL, Mt Carmels, Naz from 7a, and even CG and PR from 6a, you are amplifying the belief that 8a is the "premier" class.

Currently, small schools have no reason to feel inferior because no one from the ihsa has told them they were inferior. They simply said, you have fewer kids, so you play in 1a or 2a, etc. Now, when if we start allowing teams to "win" their way out of smaller divisions, and "lose" their way down to smaller divisions, the message becomes alot more obvious.

Im not suggesting any new system needs to be perfect and I can acknowledge the fact that we currently have an imperfect system. But, wrt to the type of new system we are discussing, lets just call it what it is...A promotion/relegation system very much similar to the EPL/English soccer. Except, they are very candid in what they are doing and no one tries to make a case that the EPL is not the "premier" class of teams.
 
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Currently, small schools have no reason to feel inferior because no one from the ihsa has told them they were inferior. They simply said, you have fewer kids, so you play in 1a or 2a, etc. Now, when if we start allowing teams to "win" their way out of smaller divisions, and "lose" their way down to smaller divisions, the message becomes alot more obvious.
The messaging goes from "you play teams with similar enrollment (...except if they're private...or have won multiple championships recently...)" to "you play teams who have had similar success against a similar strength of schedule"

If we're calling competitive based classes a spade in that the top class is the best football. Let's call the current classification a spade in that it's already trying to (unsuccessfully) account for competitive equity.
 
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Wow ... 4 pages of replies in just over 24 hours for this thread. That's a lot of d**k-waving in a short amount of time!
 
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The messaging goes from "you play teams with similar enrollment (...except if they're private...or have won multiple championships recently...)" to "you play teams who have had similar success against a similar strength of schedule"

If we're calling competitive based classes a spade in that the top class is the best football. Let's call the current classification a spade in that it's already trying to (unsuccessfully) account for competitive equity.
Exactly. Without some sort of classification discriminator - like enrollment - you (perhaps unintentionally) devalue every state championship below 8A.

It is my opinion a school like Morton (the one in Cicero), which has the largest student population in the state, should never be in any class besides 8A, even though they have been a struggling program in recent years.

I see enrollment numbers much like a golf index or handicap. It keeps you honest, and will prevent sandbagging. It’s not perfect, but there are more serious issues with using other qualifiers - like the 8A population school winning a 4A “State Championship”. See how that devalues it?
 
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Meanwhile in D1 Football....

Since the advent of the Playoff, semifinalists have lost games by 39, 38, 35, 31, 27, 21 and 20 points. Of the 14 Playoff semifinals, just three have been decided by one score.
 
Exactly. Without some sort of classification discriminator - like enrollment - you (perhaps unintentionally) devalue every state championship below 8A.

It is my opinion a school like Morton (the one in Cicero), which has the largest student population in the state, should never be in any class besides 8A, even though they have been a struggling program in recent years.

I see enrollment numbers much like a golf index or handicap. It keeps you honest, and will prevent sandbagging. It’s not perfect, but there are more serious issues with using other qualifiers - like the 8A population school winning a 4A “State Championship”. See how that devalues it?
Exactly what?

If Morton actually wins enough to qualify for the playoffs they would be classified appropriately based on the quality of teams they have competed with.

No system - the Michigan version, California version, or the one proposed here - would just place Morton in 4A without due cause.

You’re anchored on enrollment numbers as your “index” because that’s all that you’ve seen. Your same fundamental argument exists in the current framework. You’ve simply justified it because that’s how it’s always been.
 
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Meanwhile in D1 Football....

Since the advent of the Playoff, semifinalists have lost games by 39, 38, 35, 31, 27, 21 and 20 points. Of the 14 Playoff semifinals, just three have been decided by one score.
College football is a whole different beast with its own playoff challenges. Let’s not get into an apples to oranges comparison.
 
Exactly what?

If Morton actually wins enough to qualify for the playoffs they would be classified appropriately based on the quality of teams they have competed with.

No system - the Michigan version, California version, or the one proposed here - would just place Morton in 4A without due cause.

You’re anchored on enrollment numbers as your “index” because that’s all that you’ve seen. Your same fundamental argument exists in the current framework. You’ve simply justified it because that’s how it’s always been.
Exactly - that anything other than a discriminator devalues every lower classification. I’m not tied to enrollment as the classification discriminator, but as I see it, what is being purposed is unless you are in 8A, you really don’t matter. Shouldn’t a 1A state champion be regarded the same level as an 8A state champ?
 
But, wrt to the type of new system we are discussing, lets just call it what it is...A promotion/relegation system very much similar to the EPL/English soccer. Except, they are very candid in what they are doing and no one tries to make a case that the EPL is not the "premier" class of teams.
I have no problem being candid with it being a system that places a team in a competitive equity based class, and frankly I don’t think vast majority of schools would either.

I didn’t see any of the 4/5A public schools complaining when the success factor was implemented and they could no longer compete with their private enrollment based peers. They lauded the approach as a return to competitive balance.
 
Exactly - that anything other than a discriminator devalues every lower classification. I’m not tied to enrollment as the classification discriminator, but as I see it, what is being purposed is unless you are in 8A, you really don’t matter. Shouldn’t a 1A state champion be regarded the same level as an 8A state champ?
Apologies, I must be missing your point.

Yes, a 1A championship should be celebrated just as an 8A championship is. However, whether 1A is based on competitive equity or enrollment there is a difference between a 1A champion and an 8A champion.

That difference is either implicit or explicit based on your frame of reference (enrollment or competitive equity) but it exists either way.

If this is the biggest deterrent in moving towards a direct competitive equity based system then I would say we’re already in agreement that competitive equity based approach is the superior system.
 
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Enrollment is absolutely a viable way to classify public playoff teams.
Of course, classification by enrollment can be done. We've had it in this state since 1974. The question isn't if it is viable. The question being focused on in this thread is if it is the optimal way to classify schools.

The public/private debate has little to do with it. I know you saw up close an example of the drubbing that Chicago public schools took against other public schools this past weekend. If ever there was a failure of classification by enrollment for public schools, it was last weekend.

Here are a few synonyms from the dictionary for viable: workable, feasible, practicable, practical, usable, operable, possible

Note that you don't see words like effective, optimal, desirable, efficacious, productive, etc.
 
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Im not suggesting any new system needs to be perfect and I can acknowledge the fact that we currently have an imperfect system. But, wrt to the type of new system we are discussing, lets just call it what it is...A promotion/relegation system very much similar to the EPL/English soccer. Except, they are very candid in what they are doing and no one tries to make a case that the EPL is not the "premier" class of teams.

I'm intrigued by the English soccer system. I specifically like how they have fewer teams in their top levels and more teams in the lower levels.

roeder-feature-epl-pyramid2.png


I'm not suggesting that we should go to 24 levels of high school football, but the pyramid structure could be a very interesting answer to the call for every school making the playoffs. If only we can find a good system of classifying the schools according to competitive level...
 
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I’m relatively new to this board , so I’m really curious, was this topic talked about at this length when Driscoll was a perennial power? They filled their trophy case with state championship trophies at 3A and 4A.
 
I’m relatively new to this board , so I’m really curious, was this topic talked about at this length when Driscoll was a perennial power? They filled their trophy case with state championship trophies at 3A and 4A.
I've been talking about how classification by enrollment is flawed ever since the multiplier was being considered back in 2003.
 
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I have no problem being candid with it being a system that places a team in a competitive equity based class, and frankly I don’t think vast majority of schools would either.

I didn’t see any of the 4/5A public schools complaining when the success factor was implemented and they could no longer compete with their private enrollment based peers. They lauded the approach as a return to competitive balance.
That's not the same, at all. The new system would essentially devalue any champion below 8a, since you have already determined who the best teams/most successful teams are and placed them all in 8a.

In essence, you would be creating 1 true state champion, and 7 other consolation prize winners.
 
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Apologies, I must be missing your point.

Yes, a 1A championship should be celebrated just as an 8A championship is. However, whether 1A is based on competitive equity or enrollment there is a difference between a 1A champion and an 8A champion.

That difference is either implicit or explicit based on your frame of reference (enrollment or competitive equity) but it exists either way.

If this is the biggest deterrent in moving towards a direct competitive equity based system then I would say we’re already in agreement that competitive equity based approach is the superior system.
There may be some room for compromise on the matter, but it doesn't seem likely there will ever be agreement. One side of the debate is making a practical case for what they call "competitive equity", in order to minimize (not eliminate) differences in competitiveness between teams within a class. Stonedlizard ought to be commended for the extensive effort he made several years ago in coming up with a system that moves the playoff structure in that direction. The system he proposed can work and likely would reduce competitive imbalances within classes to at least a small degree.

The other side of the debate is taking a more theoretically pure approach to the matter. In their view enrollment is the most objective basis for assigning teams to the different classes. In this thread it appears all are in agreement that enrollment does influence to some degree the relative strength of teams in the different classes. In other words, almost all would agree that the top five teams in 8A would be heavily favored to defeat the best team in 1A. That is taking an extreme example to make a point. However, with the point having been made, the same truth exists to a smaller degree even when comparing classes with smaller enrollment differences (such as 6A versus 3A). I have done a small amount of research on the matter [sample sizes were far too small to be considered statistically significant, and therefore valid] that indicates, on average, there is about a five point difference per class. Enrollment does matter.

The point being made by the theoretical purists is the following. As one moves away from the use of enrollments for assigning classifications, one diminishes the significance (the value of the achievement) of any championship won other than the championship at the highest classification. While it is true the champion of 8A is (perhaps without exception) a better team than the champion of 1A, the difficulty of the achievement (and therefore the value of the championship) is the same for both. The championships in both cases were won in the context of their respective enrollment peers.

To demonstrate the point made in the preceding paragraph an example may be useful. The example will immediately be denigrated as comparing apples to oranges by the competitive pragmatists, but it is sometimes useful to use external points of reference to understand a case. The sport of boxing uses weight classifications because it is understood a boxer's weight influences the outcome of a match. The heavyweight champion will (perhaps without exception) defeat the welterweight champion. However, the victory will not necessarily be due to the heavyweight's skill. It will far more times than not be due to his superior weight (and therefore punching power). It is generally acknowledged that welterweights display superior boxing skill when compared to heavyweights. So, what does it do to the value of a welterweight championship if boxing authorities begin allowing heavyweights to compete in the welterweight classification? It devalues it. The championship was not won through superior ability, but through superior weight. What does it do to the value of a 5A football championship if the IHSA begins allowing 8A schools (based on enrollment) to compete in the 5A classification? The theoretical purists argue that it will devalue it. At least some of the 5A championships will no longer be won because of the development of the skill of a team's players, or conditioning, effort and coaching, but, instead, some of the championships will be won because one school had far more students than the other.

That is the trade-off; competitive balance versus championship integrity. Perhaps some compromise could be achieved, but there will never be total agreement as to which of the two objectives is more desirable. Both sides of the discussion have merit.
 
There may be some room for compromise on the matter, but it doesn't seem likely there will ever be agreement. One side of the debate is making a practical case for what they call "competitive equity", in order to minimize (not eliminate) differences in competitiveness between teams within a class. Stonedlizard ought to be commended for the extensive effort he made several years ago in coming up with a system that moves the playoff structure in that direction. The system he proposed can work and likely would reduce competitive imbalances within classes to at least a small degree.

The other side of the debate is taking a more theoretically pure approach to the matter. In their view enrollment is the most objective basis for assigning teams to the different classes. In this thread it appears all are in agreement that enrollment does influence to some degree the relative strength of teams in the different classes. In other words, almost all would agree that the top five teams in 8A would be heavily favored to defeat the best team in 1A. That is taking an extreme example to make a point. However, with the point having been made, the same truth exists to a smaller degree even when comparing classes with smaller enrollment differences (such as 6A versus 3A). I have done a small amount of research on the matter [sample sizes were far too small to be considered statistically significant, and therefore valid] that indicates, on average, there is about a five point difference per class. Enrollment does matter.

The point being made by the theoretical purists is the following. As one moves away from the use of enrollments for assigning classifications, one diminishes the significance (the value of the achievement) of any championship won other than the championship at the highest classification. While it is true the champion of 8A is (perhaps without exception) a better team than the champion of 1A, the difficulty of the achievement (and therefore the value of the championship) is the same for both. The championships in both cases were won in the context of their respective enrollment peers.

To demonstrate the point made in the preceding paragraph an example may be useful. The example will immediately be denigrated as comparing apples to oranges by the competitive pragmatists, but it is sometimes useful to use external points of reference to understand a case. The sport of boxing uses weight classifications because it is understood a boxer's weight influences the outcome of a match. The heavyweight champion will (perhaps without exception) defeat the welterweight champion. However, the victory will not necessarily be due to the heavyweight's skill. It will far more times than not be due to his superior weight (and therefore punching power). It is generally acknowledged that welterweights display superior boxing skill when compared to heavyweights. So, what does it do to the value of a welterweight championship if boxing authorities begin allowing heavyweights to compete in the welterweight classification? It devalues it. The championship was not won through superior ability, but through superior weight. What does it do to the value of a 5A football championship if the IHSA begins allowing 8A schools (based on enrollment) to compete in the 5A classification? The theoretical purists argue that it will devalue it. At least some of the 5A championships will no longer be won because of the development of the skill of a team's players, or conditioning, effort and coaching, but, instead, some of the championships will be won because one school had far more students than the other.

That is the trade-off; competitive balance versus championship integrity. Perhaps some compromise could be achieved, but there will never be total agreement as to which of the two objectives is more desirable. Both sides of the discussion have merit.
I appreciate the summary, but your attempt to reframe this as a choice between championship integrity and competitive balance is false dichotomy. I won't even go into the admittedly poor boxing analogy - that was debunked with the initial proposal years ago.

We can agree to disagree on the impact to championship integrity a competitive equity based system would impose. The world would be boring if we all shared the same opinion.

I'll leave it with a final point and a question to ponder:
  • A system can address competitive equity between classes without aiming to ensure the "best" teams are all in the same class
  • If enrollment is the only objective way to determine playoff classes, why do we see multiple attempts from the IHSA and almost every other state to adopt means other than enrollment to determine playoff classes?
 
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You need to look at the forest and not the individual trees. I get that there are forest guys and tree guys. You are a tree guy, and I'm a forest guy. I'm saying that we need a better forest, while you seemingly would rather focus on the single trees like Minonk Fieldcrest and continue to manage the existing forest so that the oaks are over here, the elms next to them, and the fir trees way over there, the birches next, followed by the Japanese maples, and so on.

I encourage you to take a step back, and look at the overall forest in a playoff classification system that achieves more competitively balanced classes. Take a look at that overall forest and ask yourself if it looks healthier and more majestic than the over managed forest that segments all trees by size that we currently have.

Once you do that, if it looks good to you, then step inside the forest and see if there are any trees that will infect the others to the extent that the forest will not be able to sustain itself. Adjust accordingly. Transplant a few trees if you need to. Some trees in that forest will undoubtedly be stronger than others. Some will be weaker. Don't allow yourself to get too caught up in the outliers. Focus on the overall condition of the forest.
I like your forest concept, but the problem is you encourage looking at the forest, and then step into the forest to find the "infected" trees. One key issue is that the forest dies every year, as the teams are different every year. Maybe a better analysis is a garden, where there are some perennials and some annuals.

Some programs are playoffs or bust...usually because their horticulturist (coach) is really good and sticks around. He has analyzed the dirt (community), determined the best plants to grow in the dirt (offensive & defensive systems), and sticks with the plants that work best. He develops his fertilizer (off season & weightlifting programs) to work with his plants and dirt. He fine tunes his plant choices over the years to develop the prettiest garden he can plant. And he often builds a greenhouse (youth program) where he can start growing the plants earlier and guarantee a better start to every season.

Some programs are always bad, it seems. The dirt is just not conducive to growing flowers (football), but better for growing sod (soccer) or left as a natural meadow (cross country?). Maybe the dirt is paved over (basketball?). Or the horticulturists leave after a year for a garden with better dirt, and new ones continue to keep trying new plants. The fertilizer is not refined. The program continues to stumble along...

Maybe that bad program, however, has a lucky break...the horticulturist gets a perfect set of plants (i.e. the once in a generation group of kids) that would dominate in any type of soil. But these are only two year plants...

The only way to fairly compare these gardens is to compare their size - the school enrollment. Comparing their dirt just isn't realistic - and horribly politically incorrect. Choice of plants really doesn't make much difference - at least for a playoff level team. And all the fertilizer and fancy greenhouses won't matter if the dirt is bad or the wrong plants are chosen in the first place...

Non-boundaried schools obviously have an advantage over the gardens with boundaries...like your infected trees, they need to be treated differently...
 
I appreciate the summary, but your attempt to reframe this as a choice between championship integrity and competitive balance is false dichotomy. I won't even go into the admittedly poor boxing analogy - that was debunked with the initial proposal years ago.

We can agree to disagree on the impact to championship integrity a competitive equity based system would impose. The world would be boring if we all shared the same opinion.

I'll leave it with a final point and a question to ponder:
  • A system can address competitive equity between classes without aiming to ensure the "best" teams are all in the same class
  • If enrollment is the only objective way to determine playoff classes, why do we see multiple attempts from the IHSA and almost every other state to adopt means other than enrollment to determine playoff classes?
Here are two questions that I have regarding this system that I haven't seen anyone actually answer...

1 - If your system takes all your traditional 8a teams, your most dominant 7a teams (ESL, LWE, Naz, MC, etc) and two of the most dominant 6a teams (CG and PR), and place them all in the "new" 8a, how do you reasonably explain that in our new system 8a doesn't represent our best teams?

2 - If in our new system unsuccessful teams are moved down in class based on lack of success, how is one not to believe that lower classes actually represent our worst group of teams?

Can any English soccer team not playing in the EPL claim to be the "champion" or best team in the English soccer league? No, that designation is only for the "premier" teams that the governing body has already placed in their "premier" league. We would be essentially creating an EPL, but trying to pass off those other, lower leagues as equal.
 
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It doesn't necessarily make the case one way or the other, but one thing should be pointed out in relation to the system proposed by Stonedlizard five years ago. Pointing this one thing out might alleviate some of the concern expressed by those who are advocates of the pure enrollment-based system. Given the formula that is proposed, it will be almost impossible for any team to be classified more than two levels higher or lower than their enrollment-based classification. On very, very rare occasions a team like Rochester, playing conference members that are two classifications higher than themselves, and going on a 37-game winning streak, might move up a third level. But even under that described circumstance it would be unlikely.
 
It doesn't necessarily make the case one way or the other, but one thing should be pointed out in relation to the system proposed by Stonedlizard five years ago. Pointing this one thing out might alleviate some of the concern expressed by those who are advocates of the pure enrollment-based system. Given the formula that is proposed, it will be almost impossible for any team to be classified more than two levels higher or lower than their enrollment-based classification. On very, very rare occasions a team like Rochester, playing conference members that are two classifications higher than themselves, and going on a 37-game winning streak, might move up a third level. But even under that described circumstance it would be unlikely.
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Kudos to you! There's a natural bounding based on regular season schedule.
 
Can any English soccer team not playing in the EPL claim to be the "champion" or best team in the English soccer league? No, that designation is only for the "premier" teams that the governing body has already placed in their "premier" league. We would be essentially creating an EPL, but trying to pass off those other, lower leagues as equal.
I understand your concerns here about potentially “devaluing” lower class championships. I think my response to this would be that for the most part they’re already somewhat devalued. Like it or not we never think that the 1A or 2A or 3A or even 4A champion is the best team in Illinois football. The argument for best team after each season usually boils down to the 7A or 8A champions, with 6A champs thrown in the argument lately due to ESL not being able to petition up.

Those 1A-5A schools that win State Championships are still very much celebrated in their communities and I believe they very much value those titles and memories. I don’t see why that wouldn’t continue under one of these new “competitive balance” systems.
 
I like your forest concept, but the problem is you encourage looking at the forest, and then step into the forest to find the "infected" trees. One key issue is that the forest dies every year, as the teams are different every year. Maybe a better analysis is a garden, where there are some perennials and some annuals.

Some programs are playoffs or bust...usually because their horticulturist (coach) is really good and sticks around. He has analyzed the dirt (community), determined the best plants to grow in the dirt (offensive & defensive systems), and sticks with the plants that work best. He develops his fertilizer (off season & weightlifting programs) to work with his plants and dirt. He fine tunes his plant choices over the years to develop the prettiest garden he can plant. And he often builds a greenhouse (youth program) where he can start growing the plants earlier and guarantee a better start to every season.

Some programs are always bad, it seems. The dirt is just not conducive to growing flowers (football), but better for growing sod (soccer) or left as a natural meadow (cross country?). Maybe the dirt is paved over (basketball?). Or the horticulturists leave after a year for a garden with better dirt, and new ones continue to keep trying new plants. The fertilizer is not refined. The program continues to stumble along...

Maybe that bad program, however, has a lucky break...the horticulturist gets a perfect set of plants (i.e. the once in a generation group of kids) that would dominate in any type of soil. But these are only two year plants...

The only way to fairly compare these gardens is to compare their size - the school enrollment. Comparing their dirt just isn't realistic - and horribly politically incorrect. Choice of plants really doesn't make much difference - at least for a playoff level team. And all the fertilizer and fancy greenhouses won't matter if the dirt is bad or the wrong plants are chosen in the first place...

Non-boundaried schools obviously have an advantage over the gardens with boundaries...like your infected trees, they need to be treated differently...
This is pure gold.
 
I understand your concerns here about potentially “devaluing” lower class championships. I think my response to this would be that for the most part they’re already somewhat devalued. Like it or not we never think that the 1A or 2A or 3A or even 4A champion is the best team in Illinois football. The argument for best team after each season usually boils down to the 7A or 8A champions, with 6A champs thrown in the argument lately due to ESL not being able to petition up.
Which goes to my point from a few posts ago. The new system would take all the best teams from 8a, 7a, and an occasional 6a, and place them all in 8a. 8a will, by design, become the premier class. We can dance around that fact all we want, but it would only take a few seconds to look at the new formula to figure that out.


Those 1A-5A schools that win State Championships are still very much celebrated in their communities and I believe they very much value those titles and memories. I don’t see why that wouldn’t continue under one of these new “competitive balance” systems.
The difference that I see is, right now those schools are only playing/competing in 1a because they are smaller.

In a new system, they will be competing in 1a/2a because the IHSA has told them they arent good enough, or havent been successful enough, to compete in other higher classes. That imo is different from casual fan debate at the end the year discussing the best teams in the state.
 
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In a new system, they will be competing in 1a/2a because the IHSA has told them they arent good enough, or havent been successful enough, to compete in other higher classes. That imo is different from casual fan debate at the end the year discussing the best teams in the state.
Not that any of this will ever happen, but would you accept a new competitive based system that allows those smaller schools to opt into the top class?
 
Not that any of this will ever happen, but would you accept a new competitive based system that allows those smaller schools to opt into the top class?
If we implemented this type of system, i'd probably be against any form of petitioning between classes. If the system is designed to accurately place teams in their respective classes based on competitiveness, a 4a team petitioning up, would essentially be knocking a 5a team down, who we had already determined was too good/successful to play against 4a teams.
 
This just proves that a fan of an 8A private school has a total disconnect with reality in Illinois farm school football.. the only real problem I see with 1A-4A football is the inclusion of the private schools and CPS and where they are placed..
 
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