As someone who is just getting back into high school football, I have consistently heard the issues with referees and the shortage of them. Where is this most prevalent outside of city limits?
Ref Staffing Issues
- Thread starter Crusaderfan19
- Start date
Everywhere but from what I have been told it’s less of an issue for schools who pay quickly instead of hanging guys out for 30 days.
Makes sense. Thanks for the input. Will pass this along to a few people I know interested in getting into reffing
In the early summer time - there will e a posting for a Football officiating class that is free and open to all. Edgy has been kind enough to pin this at the top of the forum.
The issue isn't really when you get paid but rather who will work the games. The great number of the schools pay through Arbiter and fees are received in a couple of days after the contest The number of crews that officiate at the Varsity level has steadily declined and the average age of the remaining officials is increasing as well. That is a bad combination. We need more officials for all levels of football.
The issue isn't really when you get paid but rather who will work the games. The great number of the schools pay through Arbiter and fees are received in a couple of days after the contest The number of crews that officiate at the Varsity level has steadily declined and the average age of the remaining officials is increasing as well. That is a bad combination. We need more officials for all levels of football.
The good news is that the IHSA will be certifying high school kids to work games. What could possibly go wrong?
I am all for the IHSA adding the Provisional License for young officials. One of the keys to this adding to the ranks is that the fans, coaches and players treatment of the newer officials. Like Ignacio says above…..what could go wrong
Is there any chance high school age kids are doing varsity games? Seems like a real way to make these kids not want to do it
No chance -
Students with a Provisional License can work 9th grade level contests in the sport he/she/they are licensed provided the student is working with a
fully-licensed IHSA Official. Students with a Provisional License are not allowed to work any high school contest beyond the 9th grade leve
HS-age officials with partial responsibility for making concussion-related decisions on the field?
Amen. The same people screaming at the refs all game will be the ones most confused when there aren't refs for their games in the future.
I have no experience with football officials, but my son has umped youth baseball and softball games as his summer job for a few years now. He has the right personality to deal with the idiots. Last summer, my one daughter wanted to try doing softball (she has played travel softball for 7 years and had a decent grasp of what to do going in. 4 or 5 games in she told me she was done. The amount of crap she took from coaches and parents, while umping completely meaningless 10u and 12u softball games was more than she wanted to deal with.
I coach my daughters team. One of the most enjoyable summers was during covid. As part of "social distancing", most of the tournaments/parks we played at weren't allowing parents/fans anywhere close to the dugout/backstop area. Maybe it was just because people were happy to be outside, but it was much more relaxing atmosphere.
Thank you!! Once THIS issue is seriously addressed and CONTROLLED, young people will NOT subject themselves to the SENSELESS criticism and beratement.
The biggest problem with youth sports is the lack of control coaches have over their parents. Too many coaches are scared to be confrontational with their parents, I view them as part of the team so I have no problem telling them to shut up.
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It isn't just parents. I've witnessed coaches and players be just as bad as the parents.
Are you talking about telling the parents to shut up or the coaches? The problem with telling parents to shut up is you might get that one guy who doesn't take to kindly to that and confronts you about that either on the field or afterward in the parking lot. Some of these crazies have been known to pull guns on officials after games. Heck, one coach killed another coach on the field after a game because of a dispute. A fan killing an official after a game is not out of the question. Maybe you can tell your coaches that you hold them responsible for their parents' actions. They get a warning and then coach is gone and after that game is over - forfeit. It makes the coaches police the parents. I"ve seen that done at tournaments.
Holding a coach responsible for another adult's actions is insane
This is pretty much the problem in a nut shell parents run wild because everyone is afraid to tell them otherwise. If you have a parent that is out if control you just tell them and their kid to move on, instead of everyone wanting to cater to little Johnny’s dad since his son is good at hut hut. You set the expectations for behavior by parents in the preseason and if you do it right you won’t have problems 95% of the time.
No words have been better spoken. There is a chain of command, and believe me, it works!
Administration
Head Coach
Assistants
Players
Parents
Fans
And it's leadership by example. If the AD and Coach exude professionalism and discipline, then it usually only takes a look at someone acting otherwise to change the behavior. Change in behavior is the only way we avoid this problem and encourage more people to consider officiating.
I agree with you 100%. Parents are supposed to be adults. Coaches should be responsible for their players and that's it.
I agree. Setting ground rules with parents before practices start is the best thing to do. However, some parents still bend or break them. When that happens little Johnny is gone. If you are going to draw a red line you had better enforce it when it is crossed.
I'm not saying "don't say anything", I'm saying you shouldn't be on the hook after the fact. There are rules against people drinking in the stands, but people still do it. Should we kick coaches out when this happens, or should we just take it up with the individual not following the rules?
I seen Coach Andriani from Montini, before he retired, come into the stands at halftime and asked the fans to quit booing the refs in the playoffs at St. Ignatius. The refs made a mistake and ejected Montini's best player for fighting. This meant he couldn't play in the next playoff game even though video showed he was not fighting. An appeal to ISHA was later denied. Coach Andriani was a class guy and showed in this instant.
Coaches have responsibility for safety and behavior on the playing field and their sideline. Other administrators (AD, asst. AD, principal, asst. principal for activities, etc.) often patrol the outer portions of the sideline are within earshot of the bleachers. Paid adult supervision in the stands in the forms of school staff and/or outside security is usually present. Finally, most press boxes are populated my numerous faculty who should not have their heads in the sand regarding inappropriate bleacher behavior. Just do your job. Regarding drinking in the stands, many containers are not carrying hot chocolate or coffee when the weather gets cold and carry-in gear is hard to thoroughly inspect. I will resist outing one high-profile 8A school in this regard.
The bourbon was medicinal.
OK. So is telling someone you don't know to shut up. In today's day and age that can get your dumb ass killed. So go try it sometime.
So you favor officials yelling at fans and telling them to shut up. That's just as insane. You have no idea who you are confronting. That person might meet you in the parking lot and shut you up. For good.
All.... I will be the first to admit having at times diarrhea of the mouth at football games. But I get it all out of my system at the tailgate. In the stands if "unhappiness" enters into my mind during the game I will quietly with a covered hand express it to one of the regular group I hang out with sitting near me. Where I sit there are usually parents of kids playing watching the game.
Having watched hundreds of games I can only recall one incident several years ago. It was a Cyclone/Rocket game in Rochester. Some parents no less with high profile kids on the team sitting down low in the stands within ear shot of the benches started yelling at the coaching staff yapping they weren't using their kid(s) enough and in the right way. At that time the game wasn't going so well for SHG. I remember several coaches turning around and giving this vocal group the dagger stare.
Several fans in the stands yelled at the antagonists telling them to shut up. That is the worst incident I have seen. I would bet a few days later a team and parent meeting was held. As a rule the SHG crowd is pretty behaved. Quiet as well. They don't cheer much like in the old days. Odd. I suppose that is better then booing and getting crazy. Ratsy
Having watched hundreds of games I can only recall one incident several years ago. It was a Cyclone/Rocket game in Rochester. Some parents no less with high profile kids on the team sitting down low in the stands within ear shot of the benches started yelling at the coaching staff yapping they weren't using their kid(s) enough and in the right way. At that time the game wasn't going so well for SHG. I remember several coaches turning around and giving this vocal group the dagger stare.
Several fans in the stands yelled at the antagonists telling them to shut up. That is the worst incident I have seen. I would bet a few days later a team and parent meeting was held. As a rule the SHG crowd is pretty behaved. Quiet as well. They don't cheer much like in the old days. Odd. I suppose that is better then booing and getting crazy. Ratsy
What are you talking about? As others have mentioned, this is the responsibility of the administrators of the team hosting the game. Putting this on a coach makes zero sense.
Also, thank you for calling me a dumb ass and telling me to go kill myself. You seem like someone who responds well to confrontation.
On thing I’ve noticed about fans is they often mirror the team on the field. Teams that I would consider low class with the cheap shots and trash talk on the field tend to have lousy stands, the culture set by the coach tends to spread to all parts of the program. There are always exceptions to rule it’s just what I’ve noticed in general.
Fights at games and even worse--murder--is a national problem that includes every sport. YouTube has videos on the mayhem caused by irate parents.. It's sickening.
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ClownBaby,
I have noticed the same thing. I know some don’t believe culture matters, but it does and it’s spreads wider than just the team.
I’ve noticed that every coach was the model player. Every teacher was the model student. And every fan can’t believe how other fans act.
Where do all the bad ones post?
Where do all the bad ones post?
Who said I am in favor of that? Maybe the officials should keep their ears in the game and out of the stands.
Struck a nerve didn't I? The minute the umpires/refs start to engage with fans in the stands is the minute when they lose. No one is saying the job is easy. And it isn't easy to ignore people sometimes. But as an official you simply can't engage with a fan unless the fan is on the field and becomes a threat there. Then it can become open season because fans don't belong on the field. And refs and players don't belong in the stands. You have a line between the two and it shouldn't be crossed by either party.
Words are words and you have to let it go. No easy but engaging is the worst mistake.
So should we wait until the follow us to our cars after the game? If the AD and coaches don’t take care of it, we will if it gets bad enough.
Not really, I knew you’d respond to it showing it’s not easy to just let ignorant comments(which that was, I usually appreciate your commentary) directed your way just slide.
1. Just because you pay to sit in an event does not then make you entitled to rant and rave and insult the officials. And if you are ignorant enough to do so, then they’re supposed to just take it because they chose that advocation?
2. Officials shouldn’t really engage with fans I agree, but it takes awhile to get to the point where you hear fans but don’t listen. The root of this officials shortage isn’t because 15+ yr officials like myself have thin skin, it’s the 1-5yr officials who haven’t yet acquired the ability to not be effected by the harassment. It’s easy to not hear you fools in a varsity game, but a gym or back field with 20 fans and no ambient noise, you can hear every ignorant comment rooted in a) not knowing the rules
b) not understanding officiating philosophy
c) fans having inherent bias for your team
d) not being mature enough to realize people make mistakes
e) parents being so monetarily and time invested in their kid getting a scholarship or winning at all costs they become irrational.
The people that work those back gyms and freshman fields are often the new officials, who like anyone starting a new role, don’t have the experience to live up to the unrealistic standard that some of you have. So for 2hrs they hear people like yourself who think officials should be robots and somehow not hear you shouting at them. Add in that it is really hard to be good at this craft, especially in lower levels because the play isn’t clean, and they get fed up and quit.
At the end of the day officials are people. They have emotions, they have the ability to hear, they have your same life stresses. It’s natural they reach a breaking point. To put it on an official for engaging an ignorant fan is just blaming the victim. High school sports are an activity, shut up and enjoy watching kids grow and learn. To have the stance that someone who makes less than $20/hour should have to be subject to harassment because they wear stripes is ridiculous. You want to cry your lungs out at college and pro refs who are well compensated, by all means. They can’t hear you anyways, and when we do it has 0 effect. Plus it’s funny, to some of us, to hear a 50yr old man nearly stroke out over holding for 3hrs. But you need to lower your expectations and change your perspective for the high school folks or there won’t be many left soon.
No they really shouldn’t engage, but they shouldn’t even have to engage with the “adults” who attend these events.
