Most dominant high school football programs of last 10 years in Illinois

[Wassup13]

In the year Montini won 6a I believe we were in the CCL green and played St Rita as a cross over game. We had a great linebacker who transferred to Montini and did not play his first game until game 3 vs Rita. On Rita's first offensive series the LB got behind the line of scrimmage, knocked the ball loose from the St Rita RB and ran it in for a touchdown. Quite a debut for that LB.

I cannot remember our non con games that year. That may have been Montini's best team ever. Normally I don't think they would be winning many state titles in 6a.

Overall I think it takes at least a 800 true total coed enrollment level for private schools to have enough depth in football to do well in classes 6a to 8a.

 

[godfthr53]

In my humble opinion. large private schools should play a national schedule. Then that would make the montini etc point valid.

Who's going to pay for that schedule with all the travel?

 

[Mr. Speed]

Who's going to pay for that schedule with all the travel?

Or do what I've been suggesting for some time and create a private Class outside of 1A-8A.

Have 1A - 6A

and 1B - 2B for Privates.

and get rid of multipliers, success factors and the endless whining.

Makes too much sense for the IHSA to consider doing it. Surprised the privates don't align and step up in their own interest to create their own State-governing body.

You think people are complaining now? Try this. And watch ALL the marquis talent suddenly find the need for religion in their lives.

 

[PC Dad_MC Grad]

In theory and on principle I agree with you. But classifying schools by enrollment including multipliers is about the only way it can be done unless you have another method you think would work better.

I suppose it might seem unfair for a team to play some regular season games up a class, or two or even three against generally tougher competition, then return to their class once the playoffs start and blow through three or four of their opponents. But, I don't think you can just move them up because they are looking to play a tougher schedule. However, I do understand your point.

I believe some of MC's state championships were not won at the highest classification, correct? So, I have a question for you because you know pretty much everything about that program. In the seasons they won it all under the top classification, did they play any schools that were one or two classes above them during the regular season? If so, why did they do that? And if they did, why did they return to their classification or take the class they were assigned to if it was under the top? When this happened did you complain about it or consider those championships of equal value to the highest class? Or did you go with it? I know you said "the schedule they normally play in the regular season." And I don't know what their schedule was in those years.

Maybe you can enlighten me on this.

You had to poke the hornets nest didn’t you?! I’m going to sit back and enjoy this LOL

 

[Gene K.]

No, no, no, Gene.

I never put down small class championships. Not for the small class caliber teams that won them.

My point, as I've repeatedly said, is that small programs (players, budgets, sophistication, etc) should play other such teams in the playoffs -- not Montini, or Mt Carmel, or St Rita, or Loyola Academy, etc.

Last season, Montini severely beat Evergreen Park deep in the playoffs. Montinit's frosh team could have beaten Evergreen Park. Montini's varsity should have been playing in 7A.

I'm tired of hearing about Montini and JCA's numerous state championships. They don't compare to the championships won by most of their regular season opponents.

It's like an MLB team competing for the American Association or PCL trophy.

I understand what you are saying just don't agree with it. Montini has around 100 kids playing on the frosh, soph and varsity football teams. While they have a 30 mile radius to get players from, most (90%,) are from the West Suburbs close enough to the actual location of the school.

They have been been multiplied and success factored in every season I have been a fan. What I don't think a lot of people understand is that they always have many of the team's best players playing both on offense and defense as the depth (number of good players to alleviate playing both ways) is not that good because of the numbers. This is particularly true on the offensive and defensive lines, where many games are won or lost. They just don't have that many really big kids that a larger school would have to occasionally spell those linemen. The skill positions are where the majority of two way players are.

If you take away the multiplier and success factor they would be playing in 4A every year. Because they have had a tradition of having good football players, great coaches and winning seasons is not enough of a reason to petition up to a higher class given the above IMO.

 

[corey90]

Or do what I've been suggesting for some time and create a private Class outside of 1A-8A.

Have 1A - 6A

and 1B - 2B for Privates.

and get rid of multipliers, success factors and the endless whining.

Makes too much sense for the IHSA to consider doing it. Surprised the privates don't align and step up in their own interest to create their own State-governing body.

You think people are complaining now? Try this. And watch ALL the marquis talent suddenly find the need for religion in their lives.

Really you think these athletes are attending private schools for the religion? There is no way the State would create a private class by itself nor would it survive on its own.

 

[greatgig13]

Really you think these athletes are attending private schools for the religion? There is no way the State would create a private class by itself nor would it survive on its own.

Uh oh, this is where the conversation starts heading off the cliff.

 

[Mr. Speed]

Really you think these athletes are attending private schools for the religion? There is no way the State would create a private class by itself nor would it survive on its own.

Your comprehension of sarcasm rivals that of grammar.

You ever been to Pennsylvania? How about New Jersey?

 

[corey90]

Your comprehension of sarcasm rivals that of grammar.

You ever been to Pennsylvania? How about New Jersey?

Lol
I was born in NJ. What about you?

 

[Mr. Speed]

Lol
I was born in NJ. What about you?

You should've taken a look around while you were there.

Both NJ and PA do a great job with a privates only class I'm told.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

You should've taken a look around while you were there.

Both NJ and PA do a great job with a privates only class I'm told.

Just because it works in NJ and PA does not mean it will work in Illinois with the dysfunction this state has. Leave it to Illinois to screw anything up.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Lol
I was born in NJ. What about you?

So, how did you end up in CA?

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Uh oh, this is where the conversation starts heading off the cliff.

But what a glorious ride it will be.

 

[jwarigaku]

PA does NOT currently separate public and private for state titles. There has been some gerrymandering with the Philadelphia Catholic league now playing in the Western Regional game against most likely a WPIAL team from Pittsburgh but there are not separate state titles. NJ is a different case and the talent has flocked to the private’s for certain.

You should've taken a look around while you were there.

Both NJ and PA do a great job with a privates only class I'm told.

 

[cornerrat]

All.... Missouri with a change. Ratsy


https://www.stltoday.com/sports/hig...=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr

 

[mchsalumni]

The number of state championships is far less meaningful if the team wins said championship against a playoff slate of schools who compete on a much smaller and less sophisticated level.

Rhymes with Montini.

I step away for a few days and grandpa shows up with the "get off my lawn" speech.

 

[mchsalumni]

Also, it’s not the only 300 boys that grew up in the tiny small town & show up to play football, it’s the 300 boys that were recruited to play football from a 30 mile radius. They shouldn’t be playing smaller schools that fit the formerly described category. Evergreen Park as mentioned might have 300 boys in the school who live between 91st-99th & western-Pulaski, they shouldn’t be on the level of Montini or JCA.

For the record, Montini has less than 100 players across all levels of football.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

So state titles at smaller classes don’t hold as much importance if I read this thread correctly.

Makes me laugh

 

[Mr. Speed]

PA does NOT currently separate public and private for state titles. There has been some gerrymandering with the Philadelphia Catholic league now playing in the Western Regional game against most likely a WPIAL team from Pittsburgh but there are not separate state titles. NJ is a different case and the talent has flocked to the private’s for certain.

I was told they do. For Wrestling. Maybe that's the disconnect. Sorry for any confusion.

NJ definitely does. And you're absolutely correct, as we see in NJ, when you establish a privates only division it will suck up talented players like a Roomba.

 

[Mr. Speed]

Just because it works in NJ and PA does not mean it will work in Illinois with the dysfunction this state has. Leave it to Illinois to screw anything up.

That's the funny part. Even if they do it right, it won't work for anyone... anyone but the privates.

 

[Mr. Speed]

So state titles at smaller classes don’t hold as much importance if I read this thread correctly.

Makes me laugh

See? For recruiting purposes to the next level, they may not. But that's not what we were talking about.

Sugar Ray Leonard is no less a top notch boxer simply because he can't beat Mike Tyson.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

See? For recruiting purposes to the next level, they may not. But that's not what we were talking about.

Sugar Ray Leonard is no less a top notch boxer simply because he can't beat Mike Tyson.

Exactly.

 

[PC Dad_MC Grad]

So state titles at smaller classes don’t hold as much importance if I read this thread correctly.

Makes me laugh

Common theme on past posts from........well you know who........

 

[stonedlizard]

We are who we thought we are!


(Love this shi*)

 

[PC Dad_MC Grad]

We are who we thought we are!


(Love this shi*)

Playoffs!

 

[LTHSALUM76]

 

[MC63]

In theory and on principle I agree with you. But classifying schools by enrollment including multipliers is about the only way it can be done unless you have another method you think would work better.

I suppose it might seem unfair for a team to play some regular season games up a class, or two or even three against generally tougher competition, then return to their class once the playoffs start and blow through three or four of their opponents. But, I don't think you can just move them up because they are looking to play a tougher schedule. However, I do understand your point.

I believe some of MC's state championships were not won at the highest classification, correct? So, I have a question for you because you know pretty much everything about that program. In the seasons they won it all under the top classification, did they play any schools that were one or two classes above them during the regular season? If so, why did they do that? And if they did, why did they return to their classification or take the class they were assigned to if it was under the top? When this happened did you complain about it or consider those championships of equal value to the highest class? Or did you go with it? I know you said "the schedule they normally play in the regular season." And I don't know what their schedule was in those years.

Maybe you can enlighten me on this.

With one exception, Mt Carmel has always played playoff opponents at the same level of their regular season 7A and 8A opponents.

Mt Carmel has won 12 state championships. Of these, two were at the highest level at that time; nine were one level down; and one was two levels down. We've lost five state championship games: two at the highest level at that time, and three at one level down. We lost in the semis in 1987 to East St Louis in the highest level.
In the seven years from 2006 to 2012, we competed in 8A playoffs.

In 1999, we beat Marian Catholic for state in the category two levels down. That was the only time. I'm not sure who we played during the playoffs, but Evergreen Park wasn't one of them. (BTW, I was a substitute teacher at Evergreen Park several times while on leave from the military. I'm very fond of the school)

Had Mt Carmel participated in the playoffs two levels down on a consistent basis, it would have raised a howl from our supporters. Likely, it would affect enrollment, as well.

Note that Montini and Joliet Catholic chose their leagues and have prospered. If they had been unable to compete properly, I'm sure they would have switched to a more appropriate conference.

 

[PC Dad_MC Grad]

With one exception, Mt Carmel has always played playoff opponents at the same level of their regular season 7A and 8A opponents.

Mt Carmel has won 12 state championships. Of these, two were at the highest level at that time; nine were one level down; and one was two levels down. We've lost five state championship games: two at the highest level at that time, and three at one level down. We lost in the semis in 1987 to East St Louis in the highest level.
In the seven years from 2006 to 2012, we competed in 8A playoffs.

In 1999, we beat Marian Catholic for state in the category two levels down. That was the only time. I'm not sure who we played during the playoffs, but Evergreen Park wasn't one of them. (BTW, I was a substitute teacher at Evergreen Park several times while on leave from the military. I'm very fond of the school)

Had Mt Carmel participated in the playoffs two levels down on a consistent basis, it would have raised a howl from our supporters. Likely, it would affect enrollment, as well.

Note that Montini and Joliet Catholic chose their leagues and have prospered. If they had been unable to compete properly, I'm sure they would have switched to a more appropriate conference.

And there it is.........

 

[Wassup13]

MC63,

Send over 100 male students from MC to JCA and 100 male students from MC to Montini and I'm sure Montini and JCA would be happy to move up.

For those that don't know MC had 617 male students in their school last year, Montini 300 males and JCA 300 males.

 

[PC Dad_MC Grad]

MC63,

Send over 100 male students from MC to JCA and 100 male students from MC to Montini and I'm sure Montini and JCA would be happy to move up.

For those that don't know MC had 1,235 male students in their school last year, Montini 300 males and JCA 300 males.

We will take a few at the Emerald Isle too......

 

[Wassup13]

I mean 617 male students at MC.

Football enrollment divided by 1.65 divided by 2.

 

[Mr. Speed]

MC63,

Send over 100 male students from MC to JCA and 100 male students from MC to Montini and I'm sure Montini and JCA would be happy to move up.

For those that don't know MC had 617 male students in their school last year, Montini 300 males and JCA 300 males.

Montini has less than 300 males I'm told.

I guess those Catholic girls didn't start all that late like Billy Joel sang...

 

[Cross Bones]

To be fair I don't think the argument is that Sugar Ray Leonard wasn't a great boxer because he couldn't beat Mike Tyson. It's more that Mike Tyson shouldn't be boxing the welterweights when he's a heavy weight. And if he was boxing the welterweights it would be no surprise if he won the belt.

 

[Gene K.]

MC63,

Send over 100 male students from MC to JCA and 100 male students from MC to Montini and I'm sure Montini and JCA would be happy to move up.

For those that don't know MC had 617 male students in their school last year, Montini 300 males and JCA 300 males.

Good point Wassup but your ruining the narrative of MC63, whom I respect. I am not taking nothing away from Mt. Carmel which deservedly gets high praise for all it's sports programs. Just that Montini deserves just as much respect for its success also. Your comments about adding 100 more males supports my point about depth when competing in a higher class. As MCHSalum stated the frosh, soph and varsity football teams have less than 100 players. Add 100 more males and if just a 1/3 come out for football as is the current ratio of players to students at Montini, it would make a huge difference in depth as well as giving their better players a chance to come off the field instead of playing both ways. I believe the year that Montini won all their games, they did beat ESL in their stadium as well as other larger schools. That was as you said earlier probably Montini's best team and winning like that on a year to year basis with the current number of students playing football is IMO unlikely.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

To be fair I don't think the argument is that Sugar Ray Leonard wasn't a great boxer because he couldn't beat Mike Tyson. It's more that Mike Tyson shouldn't be boxing the welterweights when he's a heavy weight. And if he was boxing the welterweights it would be no surprise if he won the belt.

Adding logic to an illogical conversation is simply not allowed

 

[Mr. Speed]

To be fair I don't think the argument is that Sugar Ray Leonard wasn't a great boxer because he couldn't beat Mike Tyson. It's more that Mike Tyson shouldn't be boxing the welterweights when he's a heavy weight. And if he was boxing the welterweights it would be no surprise if he won the belt.

I believe the jumping off point was Rochester couldn't beat anyone in the top ten. To which the correct response would be that it isn't germane to the point of contention.

Perfect analogy if I say so myself. And I do.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

I believe the jumping off point was Rochester couldn't beat anyone in the top ten. To which the correct response would be that it isn't germane to the point of contention.

Perfect analogy if I say so myself. And I do.

Whose Germane

 

[forlouann]

I think he was one of The Jackson 5

 

[corey90]

So, how did you end up in CA?

Parents moved when I was like 6 years old. Lol

 

[corey90]

You should've taken a look around while you were there.

Both NJ and PA do a great job with a privates only class I'm told.

Mr Speed
Sure but like another poster pointed out just because they know what their doing doesn’t mean it will work Illinois. I am sure their are plenty of complaints in NJ and PA.