Is A Change Coming?..Attn: 4A North
- Thread starter MIKEFTB
- Start date
What is the specific source of pride?
Like I can say I'm proud the be a Nazareth Roadrunner, but there's nothing innate about the actual nickname. I would be just as proud of any non-offensive nickname because the pride is driven by the actual school community and what the school represents. Would there somehow be less pride over some other nickname? It's still being part of Morris and the highschool that seemingly is the bond that ties those students, community, and alum.
Now there are some native nicknames that drive a particular sense of history to an area and specific tribe. You see some universities with those relationships and they tend to have specific support form those active tribal communities. Those I get because of a specific communal tie that may create a unique bond to that area. But generic native nicknames are just that, generic. If the only tie is just that's what it's always been... Objectively I can't understand it. If there was any doubt about Roadrunners offensiveness I wouldn't bat an eye and the pride would still be the school, not the mascot.
It’s offensive to sly, dear I say wily, coyotes bruh
To what end is it offensive and who gets to decide? Should I be offended by Vikings or Fighting Irish because I'm Irish and Scandinavian? There are people who could be offended by Yankees.
Here is an excerpt NPR article which speaks to the origin of the word and how Native Americans created the term to self identify. It was later used as derogatory in books and poems, but the origin cam from the Native Americans themselves.
"But where did the word "redskin" come from? Many dictionaries and history books say the term came about in reference to the Beothuk tribe of what is now Newfoundland, Canada. The Beothuk were said to paint their bodies with red ochre, leading white settlers to refer to them as "red men."
According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers. In the book, Cooper has a dying Indian character lament, "There will soon be no red-skin in the country."
https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...y-for-some-controversy-the-history-of-redskin
Brave is also an adjective or positive attribute, lots more leeway. An upper crust suburb or tony private school can retool Chiefs as a CEO type i.e Deerfield went from "feather" to spartan like Warriors. Hyde Park HS went from Indians to Thunderbirds still a native American theme. If UNLV had been able to carry its MBB pedigree past the Tarkanian era, lots less objection to Rebels.
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Fine. Who gets to determine what's offensive? I already told you 95%+ of indigenous people don't find these things offensive. Do the 5% get to decide what is offensive over the 95%? If one person is offended with something and 100 are not, is it offensive? Or is it just offensive to that one person? Should we make changes on what 5% of people think and are offended by? In this world today, you can't say or do anything without at least someone being offended. Do we make changes based on everything someone might be offended by? You act as if the majority of indigenous people are offended by this. They aren't. And if they aren't, why should it matter what anyone else thinks?
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Honestly, it's hard to say. It's just something your born into in Morris and grow up with the slogan "Redskin pride never dies"
We'll find out but the alumni are overwhelmingly against the change. Which is why I believe they aren't being included in any vote. I'd be curious to hear what happened at other schools that dropped the name. I wonder if there's less pride from the old guard at Naperville Central.
Morris and the surrounding area are littered with a Native American presence with town names such as Seneca, Ottawa, Minooka, Channahon, and Oswego. How long has Naz had the Roadrunner nickname? Has it been over 100 years? Did your parents, grandparents, and great grandparents all represent the Roadrunner name?
Crusader : a person who participated in any of the military expeditions undertaken by Christian powers in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to win the Holy Land from the Muslims.
I don't know, seems pretty derogatory against those Muslims they ripped the Holy Land away from. Such blasphemy should not be accepted!!! 🤣 🤣 🤣
I don't think the vestiage of town names is the same as an actual tie to indigenous people. They were killed or driven off to settlements and then the areas just kept the adopted/historical names.
Not sure of the exact history of the Roadrunner nickname, except it isn't the length of the entire school (1900). Morris HS looks like it was established in 1944. So haven't quite hit the 100 year mark, but don't see why it would matter if you had. The actual historical significance of the name is probably accidental and I'm sure got chosen cuz it sounded cool at the time and people liked the warrior connotation. Which is one of the exact complaints of groups who have come out against the nicknames, that they simplify the culture of indigenous people. In an alternate reality where it was the Morris Wolves, I doubt the pride of alumni would be any different. You make new traditions and tie the pride to the people and institution.
Morris, the institution does get to decide for itself. I or anyone here can't tell them what to decide. Only can offer perspective.
Who at Morris gets to decide? Well the school board is ultimately the one. How they ultimately decide to involve community, students, or alumni is up to the specific board and any future board could affirm or change any decision and ultimately then its ultimately a voter issue. So in one way or the other I guess the voters decide. So voters can start a drive for a single issue school board if it's that important I guess?
The current Morris HS building opened in 1944 but Morris HS itself is much older. Morris' first football season was 1911.
Would the alumni pride change if the U of I were no longer the Illini? Who's to say, but I do know alumni who stopped giving to the University when they were forced to get rid of Chief Illiniwek.
How much history do you have with Naz other than attending yourself? Morris has always been a close tight knit community and I think it is viewed differently when generations of the same family have all gone through and if you change the name there can be a disconnect from previous traditions.
For the record I only mentioned roadrunners, coyotes and beavers.
Beavers LOL. I kind of like River Hawks. Beats having your mascot named after a condom.
How do you know it's all white guys? I simply want to know, who gets to determine whether this is offensive. If you read my posts you would have come to that conclusion. But maybe I am not included in your post. If I am not, carry on.
Perhaps the same crowd making decisions about gender, I don’t know. It’s the times we live in now and I don’t see it reversing anytime soon.
Sad that you need a mascot/nickname to stay connected to your community, family, and traditions.
Gotcha. Sorry my error from looking at Wikipedia quickly.
Obviously hard to compare a Public v private institution. No, there isn't a multi generational tie for me. But I think you bring up a interesting point because while there is no doubt a subset of long-lived Morris residents who have that common multi-generational identity, I'm sure the reality is that, as with any community, a large amount of the community changes over time as people leave and new residents move in. You may have a multi generational tie, but how many do? Not to discount your opinions, but a lot of times times just change as the community changes. Your ties to that pride isn't everyone's. And your pride may not necessarily be felt by another multi-generational person who may not feel the same pride attached to the specific nickname or specifically feels less pride because of it.
Again, I don't have a vested interest. Just an outsider offering a hopefully unbiased opinion. It doesn't feel like it's anything other than general objection to change. And perhaps objection to what feels like forced change. But is that actually the case? It's not like in California where the state leg passed down a mandate. If the community opinion has changed then it's just adapting to change. There's changes I don't love about the world from when I was a child, but not all of them can I really justify outside of a nostalgic fondness and comfort.
I obviously cannot speak for the entire community, but just as an example from this year's team alone, the QB is a relative of the QB from Morris' 1980 state team, the star WR's dad was a great RB in the 1990's and was on Morris' state baseball team in 1993 or 1995. The freshman QB who may be the varsity starter next year is the son of the QB from the 1980 state team. At least one of the OL has very deep ties to Morris.
For sure, no worries, I've enjoyed the discussion.
This is stemmed from the COVID era "woke" crowd who found offense with everything and decided it was time for things to change and this small group got in the ear of the school board and superintendent. Previously, grumblings and objections to the name would pop every 10-15 years by a small group and when the rest of the community didn't get behind them they'd fade away.
Why not do Redwings and they could still incorporate feathers, like Oregon does with the duck wings?
Quacky Helmets
Quacky Helmets
Most ppl offended with the high school nicknames have 0 affiliation with the town or school
Even sadder that people with no connections to any of that feel a need to go all around the country & change things. If they want change they can start with getting rid of all this rap & hip hop trash. Then again those are the people who demanded Baby It's Cold Outside be pulled yet Wet A-- P---- was the song of the year & they were fine with that 😒🤪
These are the statements of someone who is need of help. If any one has a help line or someone this person can talk to, please come forward with the information.
Change the name to The Morris Chestnuts, and you can have the actor as your mascot. A good person to get donations from, and it also plays on the nut mascot like the Ohio State Buckeyes.
You may have to change the color scheme based on the preferences of the actor though.
You may have to change the color scheme based on the preferences of the actor though.
Divetwin, Dean and I talked about this at JCA game....I kind of saw writing on the wall. Of the two choices I lean toward River Hawks.
I know the Morris program no matter what name will continue to carry on the tradition of a strong program for years to come.
Agree. Have suggested this many times. People upset over the nickname... They're not pressuring anyone to change their town name. Nicknames are trivial and useless. Just be Morris, just be Rochester, just be Joliet Catholic, just be Batavia... Redskins doesn't define the town, it's superiority on the field or court, or make it more traditional... Nicknames weigh nothing compared to the name on the front of the jersey. Morris is every bit as powerful as any nickname, no matter how potentially offensive or not.
I was told that the community and high school students were polled a year or so ago and they wanted to keep the name. Take it for what's its worth. I live a town over but frequently in Morris so it came up a few times.
I don't care if any team changes their name or not. I agree with a previous post, I don't get where the sense of pride comes from. Like Wilmington Wildcats sounds good and it just fits, but if they changed it for some unknown reason, I wouldn't be upset. It is what it is.
That being said when and if teams change mascots, I think they should ALWAYS opt for the most unique name possible. I'd gladly change from Wildcats to Yellowhammers, Catfish, or Gemini Giants. Hell, even the River Rats. I think it's lame as hell that in the SEC there are 3 Tigers.
That being said when and if teams change mascots, I think they should ALWAYS opt for the most unique name possible. I'd gladly change from Wildcats to Yellowhammers, Catfish, or Gemini Giants. Hell, even the River Rats. I think it's lame as hell that in the SEC there are 3 Tigers.
I am a proud alum of the Master Batters Softball team.
