On a brighter note the Illini introduced new uniforms again today. Column theme in the numbers. They might not win but they’ll look good trying.
Illini
- Thread starter SWsuburbs4
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Have the Illini ever won a national title? I know they had a couple years here and there where they were decent and went to the rose bowl - but it’s been a long long long long time.
I believe in the 40's or 50's........so, no they haven't. Turner had a nice year or two, zook had the 07-08 season. White and Mackovek (sp?) had some nice seasons, alot of bad football other than that.
The Illini have won 5 National Champions in football but the last one was a long time ago in 1951.
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"Yes, if a fan buys a ticket that does give him a right to criticize effort. I believe that 100%. But writers don't pay to get into games. They are freeloaders who think they have almighty power just because they have a keyboard.
I would love to go and sit with you at a Bears game and you could tell me before every single play what defense the Bears should run. Then when they are on offense you could tell me exactly what play they should run. Then we might see if what you called might have worked. It would be real interesting to see how you would do. I guarantee, it would be real ugly."
No "Freeloader" here. I have been a PAYING customer at the Bears since 1983. I sit in section 225, Row 7, Seat 13. Happy to have you join me for a game.
And as a freelance sportswriter, I don't hide in the press box like many of my compatriots. I am right there on the sidelines, listening, charting the game and learning as there is still plenty for me to learn.
I also have 40 years of football coaching experience. So I think understand the game a little bit.
"Yes, if a fan buys a ticket that does give him a right to criticize effort. I believe that 100%. But writers don't pay to get into games. They are freeloaders who think they have almighty power just because they have a keyboard.
I would love to go and sit with you at a Bears game and you could tell me before every single play what defense the Bears should run. Then when they are on offense you could tell me exactly what play they should run. Then we might see if what you called might have worked. It would be real interesting to see how you would do. I guarantee, it would be real ugly."
No "Freeloader" here. I have been a PAYING customer at the Bears since 1983. I sit in section 225, Row 7, Seat 13. Happy to have you join me for a game.
And as a freelance sportswriter, I don't hide in the press box like many of my compatriots. I am right there on the sidelines, listening, charting the game and learning as there is still plenty for me to learn.
I also have 40 years of football coaching experience. So I think understand the game a little bit.
Mackovic was at UI four years and compiled a 22-9-1 B1G record including 4-0 vs Ohio St.
I know some people will torch me for this, but once certain accomplishment in sports are so old, it's like they never happened. To say the Illini have 5 championships is a joke. MAYBE the 1951 title still holds, but those others don't count.
To clarify, I am an Illini fan. A frusturated one, but still a fan.
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I can see where you’re coming from certainly but by your logic the NY Yankees only have 15 World Series titles instead of 27 because many occurred before 1950 (when they played only one post season series to boot). Good luck telling New Yorkers that.
Same holds true for Michigan football and their 11 claimed titles...but only 1 after 1950.
Same with Notre Dame...instead of 11 nattys they only have four because they weren’t after 1950.
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That's what I'm getting at.....Not saying it should be taken away or anything but once there is a certain gap between titles it just isn't relevant or impressive anymore. It's always fun to talk about the great seasons or great teams but sports change so quickly that people tend to forget quickly.
Your hubris could be cut with a knife. Just keep lying to yourself. Just another reason I don't bother to become a paying member here. I am certainly not going to pay to deal with someone like you who is a legend in your own mind.
I didn't know you coached an NFL team. What team was that?
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It will be nice for the Fighting Illini to have some kind of success. At some point, things have to turn around.
If being proud of the knowledge that I have accumulated in 40 years of coaching and sportswriting is hubris, then so be it.
That wasn't what I was talking about and you know it. I am talking about your thinking I should genuflect to you. Or saying it would be a good place to start as if you're better than me. Please.
So, you have been on the sidelines. I am happy for you. Would that include Bears games? And I'll bet you didn't pay to be on those sidelines either. You don't work when you are at the Bears games.
If we can get back on track, my point is, Lovie Smith was not as bad as you say. And he took a lot more crap than he deserved. All you did was second-guess him like most other Lovie haters. And you second-guessed him after the fact...of course. It is very easy to say a guy made mistakes after he made them.
Look, sorry, I don't want anyone to bow to me or kneel before Zod. Frankly, I am just not that smart.
Never been on a Bear's sideline.Not unless you count the Prep Bowl. I am on HS sidelines all the time, and no, I don't pay to get in. I am working.
And I didn't wait until Lovie was gone to second-guess. Always was a very vocal critic.
Never been on a Bear's sideline.Not unless you count the Prep Bowl. I am on HS sidelines all the time, and no, I don't pay to get in. I am working.
And I didn't wait until Lovie was gone to second-guess. Always was a very vocal critic.
I had Illinois season tickets for many years (until youth football took over my Saturdays...). I went to a high school that didn't play football, and have never played organized football. But I sat in the stands and could predict plays about 80% of the time based on situation, formation and personnel by the Illini under Ron Turner...I always wondered if I could largely do that, what could a Big Ten DC do?
Lovie is not the best coach on earth. But for a sputtering program to hire the former NFL coach who led the local / in-state team to the Super Bowl was a good move. Hiring another largely unknown MAC coach would have been disaster in Champaign...or some assistant. The Illini needed a name, and one that wasn't looking for a steppingstone (Mackovic, Lon Kruger, Bill Self). Do you know he's going to play Tampa 2? Of course. Is the offense going to be relatively conservative? Of course. But his name alone will attract attention which the Ilini needs desperately.
Turner’s ‘99 team administered the biggest beatdown of Ohio State in Ohio Stadium history. Apparently OSU’s defensive coordinator couldn’t figure it out.
So you have no respect for sportswriters because they judge coaches based off uninformed opinions from a keyboard? Then you in turn judge a sportswriter based of an uninformed opinion from a keyboard (and you paint with like a 9 ft wide brush)?
Should be a reason you DO pay. He's not a paying member. You can talk on the pay side.
Don't try to twist this around for your benefit. I have a problem with snarky sportswriters, especially those who never played or coached at the level they criticize. And we seem to have more than our share here in Chicago. If I had an uninformed opinion of most writers, it would be because I don't read a thing they write. I, in fact, do read what they write...hence my IN-formed opinion. It's like judging an opinion of someone on the radio without actually listening to the person, but taking a few cherry-picked quotes. It's lazy.
Do you really want to know how many newspapers and columns I read daily and weekly? I guarantee it's far more than you. Not just sports either. Yes, I do have an informed opinion.
I don't care much for second-guessers...especially those who second-guess after the fact. That's what I read daily when I get the papers, and to be quite honest, what I see here from time to time. Let's be clear. I am not saying they never have the right to criticize. If a guy was lazy on a play, call him out. But, in effect, telling a coach or manager how to do their job, by saying they are calling the wrong plays (after the fact) or batting the wrong guys in certain positions in the lineup (which I just read today) is where I draw the line, especially when they have never played or coached at that level.
I do notice none of you commented on the fact I have no trouble with TV analysts who do their jobs in real time and make their comments as the action is happening or before a play happens. Even if these guys make a mistake I give them the benefit of the doubt because they have been in the ring and have participated at that level. It adds far more credibility with me.
The bottom line is, Lovie Smith was criticized far more than he deserved by many people who didn't know what the hell they were talking about and have never been out there.
Some of these guys don't like Lovie Smith just because they don't like Lovie Smith.
Before I go any further I want to make something clear in case some here haven't noticed. I do NOT include high school writers or media in my criticism. You will notice I did that on purpose. Those guys, for the most part, don't criticize unfairly. They realize it is the high school level and mistakes are going to be made. For those who do, shame on them. The job of criticizing a high school athlete belongs to his or her coach. I am talking about guys who cover the pro level.
In my opinion the best pro sportswriter in Chicago is Mark Lazerus. The guy respects the coaches and players and his writing reflects that. He doesn't second-guess unfairly and he doesn't tell coaches how to do their jobs. Yes, he can be critical, more this year than other years. But it is not malicious and it's not personal. He is well respected, as a writer, around the league too and has appeared on the NHL channel to discuss the Hawks numerous times. The players and coaches like him and respect what he does because he, in turn, respects them. Most of the Chicago sportswriters could learn a valuable lesson from him.
I don't follow the Bulls, so I can't comment on the people who cover them.
In my opinion the best pro sportswriter in Chicago is Mark Lazerus. The guy respects the coaches and players and his writing reflects that. He doesn't second-guess unfairly and he doesn't tell coaches how to do their jobs. Yes, he can be critical, more this year than other years. But it is not malicious and it's not personal. He is well respected, as a writer, around the league too and has appeared on the NHL channel to discuss the Hawks numerous times. The players and coaches like him and respect what he does because he, in turn, respects them. Most of the Chicago sportswriters could learn a valuable lesson from him.
I don't follow the Bulls, so I can't comment on the people who cover them.
That's a good question. Actually it's a very good question. I would say at least 75 to 85% of the guys who criticized Smith just didn't like him personally. Have you noticed how that works in the media? In general, it works that way in the public too. I am sure we will have some deniers where that is concerned but I fully stand by my numbers. We are at the point in this country where, if someone doesn't like someone personally, it tends to cloud their judgement against that person professionally. I don't know if that is just natural or what. But subjectivity is really getting the upper hand over objectivity every day. I don't think anyone can deny this.
The vast majority of people tend to believe those they like, even if that person is totally wrong on a subject. And people tend not to believe those they don't like. We see it every day in many areas.
I don't have a problem with people who don't like others. We see it all the time. But when that personal dislike clouds their better judgement on someone's ability to do their job it's a problem. I am not saying anyone here is guilty of that with Smith, but you do have to look at the numbers and I know those are right.
All that is fine but the topic is Lovie coaching at Illinois. Right now he isn't doing well at all.
That is true. But, we have to remember what he walked into. No, no one forced him. We first have to look at progress and in that program, progress may take years. I just don't like guys taking personal issues and making judgments based on that. It happens all the time. The fact is, the opinions of Lovie on this board are based first on his coaching at the professional level.
I really don't take anything that is said to me on this board in a personal way, unless the other guy gets personal. I don't doubt most guys here feel the same way. I just don't like to see the two mixed. It usually never ends well.
Babers walked into Syracuse and they beat Clemson this year. I think some are tired of is the excuse that people tend to give Lovie. Chris Ash at Rutgers is currently doing better than Lovie. I don't think it is personal, it's the results. Most felt that at minimum, coaching should allow them to win games like Rutgers. To go winless in the Big 10 is a problem and there really isn't any excuse for that. Do they have the talent to compete with Ohio State, no but to have consecutive two win seasons is an issue. If you look at the teams that played the most freshman last year, most had above average season. Illinois only had 2 wins. People expected better. 8 wins? no but definitely more than 2.
At this point, I don't think it has anything to do with his time with the Bears. The Fighting Illini under Lovie are currently not living up to expectations. For the record expectation is 4 or 5 wins. Hopefully things will change for the better.
It’s even worse when you consider Illinois went 11-14 and was semi competitive the two years prior to going out and making their big splash hire.
Lovie may be a nice guy but he is boring and you can’t have boring at an overlooked program, you have to deliver sound bits and generate media buzz especially if you don’t have any results on the field. Illinois football has often been an after thought in the Chicago media market but now it is worse then ever.
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OK, so let's do some problem solving. Where does Illinois go from here?
Do you fire Lovie? Keep in mind, in firing him you would have the 5th head coach in the last 8 years when you hire the new guy. I am not sure any program would be very successful with that kind of turnover.
Do you fire Lovie? Keep in mind, in firing him you would have the 5th head coach in the last 8 years when you hire the new guy. I am not sure any program would be very successful with that kind of turnover.
Only 2 of those 5 wins were over big ten schools. One of the 5 was over an FCS team. If you want to be respectable you need to start winning your conference games. Put together a .500 season and go from there. Big Ten school or not, I can't imagine many recruits wanting to go to a school that is the punching bag of the conference.
As stated, hopefully Lovie can get it together. No one is suggesting they should fire him only because of the payout and other factors. On the field, HE need to get it going.
what's my benefit? And how do you know how much I read? You are IN-formed, so please expound.
I was just pointing out the circle you posted yourself into bub
Lovies first year was a total wash. He was hired in what March, three weeks before spring ball? Whitman hired him, I'm sure with full disclosure, that this thing needs to get tore all the way down and built back up. Beckman/Cubit were hanging on with JUCO guys because they had lost all relevance in the state recruiting, if they ever had any. I believe Beckman's last actual coaching season he got 1 of the top 30 kids in the state. Lovie has 5-6 years to get it back to a solid program. This past season was really year 1. The 2018 season is really year 2, they are only going to win 2-3 games again this year. 2019 is the year that matters, have to make a bowl game, have to win 6-7 games and be relevant. All these FR. that played last year will be juniors then, Lovie will have 3 full classes in by then. If he's not making some real progress and a bowl game by 2019, hes gone.
IMO, they will have a top 30 class recruiting class this season. Lovie went and hired Trinity Catholic's coach out of St. Louis to be the 10th assistant, basically the guy's only job is to recruit. He's coaching TE's in a spread offense. Hopefully a few of those kids can play early in 2019 and help. But, there needs to be some consistency for players to develop, improve, etc.
A buddy and I had season tickets for a few years. It was pretty fun, but holy hell toward the end it was some really bad football. We would go watch their non-con games at the beginning (usually terrible teams) so we could see them win. That was just ugly for all teams involved. Then we would want to see the better teams (OSU, Wisc, MSU, etc), and we would find ourselves back at the tailgate before the end of the first half.
