IHSA - District Proposal - Official Language
- Thread starter DJrodey24
- Start date
Agreed. Districts create a whole set of other issues. Some of the smaller schools in urban areas are traveling far. Some of the larger schools not traditionally good at football going to get waxed by their larger neighbors. Not good....and bad for all of football.
Why does it matter if your school has football or not? If you are a member of an organization, and that organizations asks fro votes on a certain issue or topic, ALL members of the organization should be able to vote, not just the ones the decision affects. As a member school, if I do not feel I can make a decision on that topic, I can choose not to vote. But, to not allow me to vote, that would violate organizational rules, I believe.
Yea, I mean, withholding a vote is a reasonable option for those schools on a matter that does not directly impact them. Again, it's possible some of these are voting in response to the tertiary issue of conference shuffling issues that do effect them, but I'm unsure how prevelant that effect is.
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I believe that there's enough of an enrollment disparity that they'll be separated in this case. 6A/7A.
St. Charles 303 has dropped enrollment by 8% and every other school district in Kane County has lost at least 13% of overall enrollment in the last 6 years, except for one. Central 301 has gained 18%.
So as enrollment drops all over the place, we'll see changes with districts dramatically over the years, just as we are seeing with postseason classifications.
And what about the travel distance for those larger schools?
Will proposed districts be made public prior to a vote or will schools need to vote on this without having all of the pertinent information?
What about my question regarding having CPS schools in districts with successful private schools? Speaking of that, how will it work if each district gets 4 playoff qualifiers and certain districts have CPS teams that are not eligible for post season play?
This districting idea is founded in the glorification of participation trophies.
Mediocre men attempting to provide equity rather than equality.
Mediocre men attempting to provide equity rather than equality.
CPS would just exclude certain schools(blue division) from being in the initial count of schools so it may not be enough for schools for all 8 classes w/ 8 divisions. They would basically keep their same set up..... 1 non conference game, 5 conference games, 1 cross over game. With blue division playoffs wk 8 and 9.
random thoughts by a very old man:
1) this district thing has zero chance of passing. It failed last time once it became clear what the districts would look like.
2) chicago teams not eligible for playoffs, if there are any in the district system, would not be included in the district makeup if by some miracle the thing gets passed.
3) schools have figured out on their own that the model of the future is to have football only conferences such as the Catholic league/east suburban Catholic. That is the future. You are seeing leagues now connecting with other leagues for non conference games in football only. That’s a half step away from putting conferences together that make sense for majority of the schools.
4) those who think the district system will only inconvenience a few dozen schools is off by several hundred. It’s not just travel. It’s putting teams in leagues where there teams are either in a no win or no lose situation.
5) the number of crap teams that will make the playoffs would increase because some districts will have 5 or 6 garbage teams that will result in 8 team standings that look like this: 7-0, 6-1, 3-4,3-4, 3-4. 3-4, 2-5, 1-6 in which there are two powerhouses and five or six teams that can beat each other because they are all bad.
5) no system is going to help Maine East, Proviso East, Round Lake, McHenry, Waukegan, etc. they are hopeless situations.
6) that said, a system in which betting in august on the six team parlay of teams playing at ISU in November of Rochester, Lena-Winslow, East St.Louis, Mt.Carmel, Loyola and Lincoln-way East got you only even-money odds is not a great look.
When they best thing about 1-16 seeding by halves is that in 6a there are 16 teams in the north that can think about playing at ISU is not a great commentary on the currrnt system.
I wouldn't be so confident that this won't pass. With all of the constant conference realignment and even new conferences being created this would be a huge load off of the AD's plate to not have to worry about scheduling or finding a conference their school belongs in.
Zero chance. The most rd dr vote was 60.8 pct for current status and 39.2 pct. For district plan.
The difference was more than 130 votes out of 615.
What has changed in past year to make districts more appealing than conferences for about 70 schools to change their mind.
Actually conferences have gotten smarter.
The central suburban south no longer crossed over with the leagues north division.
Other conferences have aligned together to improve non conference s scheduling.
In the district system two non conference games are irrelevant toward making the playoffs so you are creating a situation in which 3 wins and a fourh place conference finish gets a 3-6 team into the playoffs.
And please don’t say nonconference games will count for seeding as seeding is all luck. You get 9-0 Payton or 9-0 Antioch and you celebrate. You get 9-0 Lena Winslow and you get ready for basketball or wrestling season.
He proposal for districts has not changed after losing in a landslide 60.8-39.2 pct.
It has no shot at passing. On this site o have sizes of plans to improve the current system. Everyone of them is better than what is being voted on.
And scheduling 2 non conference fb games a year is not exactly causing ADs to work overtime.
Actually, it did pass initially. It was repealed once the proposed districts were made public, so there is definitely an interest in districts among AD's, they just need to align them better competitively. I'm not sure the IHSA is able to do this but to say it has zero chance when it has already passed once is short sighted.
What has changed? More schools moving to 8 man football, private school enrollments being down, tougher time scheduling non conference games. Also, you asked what has changed in the past year but the initial district vote that was approved was in 2019, I believe and districts would have gone into effect in 2021.
Just because those of us here don't want it doesn't mean ADs aren't in favor of it. If every AD in the state only had to worry about scheduling weeks 1 and 2 every year that is a huge positive in their eyes.
It passed barely before schools knew what the IHSA plan was.
Once it came out, the proposition was crushed. I fail to see how the plan has changed in any significant way.
8-man football? Huh? 28 schools played in 2023. 27 schools played in 2022. I believe that 1-school growth this year is not significant. Perhaps you feel differently.
A tougher time scheduling nonconference games? Says who? The conferences in the Chicago area seem to be attacking that problem by hooking up with nearby conferences for their non-league matchups. Problem solved.
I am waiting to see a plan from the IHSA that is different from the 2019 plan that got crushed once schools found out what the districts looked like. As of today, it. appears that the old plan is what we are all looking at and it was soundly rejected.
In order to have 8 8-team districts in each class, the IHSA needs 512 schools playing football. There are a dozen or so schools fewer than that playling this year that are playoff eligible. That. leaves two solutions. 1) the IHSA adds some Chicago Public League noncompetitive schools to the IHSA playoff system to reach the 512 total. Or, 2) it has several 7-team districts. A 7-team district of courses creates a disaster on two fronts. Now, with 4 out of 7 teams qualifying for the playoffs you are more likely to get more garbage teams in the playoffs. And, a 7-team district requires one team each week to find a non-coference game against some other district that has 7 teams. That's the same situation you have now with a 7-team league. which is why there aren't very many leagues with an odd number of teams.
No, the mid-suburban conference is not a 7-team conference. It is a 14-team conference with the odd team in each division playing a crossover game so scheduling is a gimme.
The IHSA needs to show a district plan in which 50.1 percent of the voting members think that situation will b e better than what is currently being used. So far, all I see is basically the same plan that was rejected when the schools. found out what the plan was.
The idea of approving in order to see what you've approved was tried once. Nobody. is stupid enough to go that route again.
To your first point, the IHSA has no control over which CPS teams can or cannot make the playoffs, that's a CPS decision.
Believe it or not, high school football in Illinois is also played outside the Chicagoland area. There were a number of teams going into this year scrambling to find opponents and ESL didn't even have a week 9 game due to this. Several schools have had to look outside of Illinois to fill their schedule.
It was previously approved without a plan, so obviously the AD's were all for it before they even knew what the districts would be. If the IHSA can align the districts more competitively this will pass.
That was pretty interesting. The vote passed in the past. But was then over ruled when they realized what districts would look like. This shows how stupid this idea is as well as those voting on it. Reminds me that f Pelosi’s comment in regards to the ACA. “We’ll know what’s in it once we pass it.” I thought we couldn’t make up this kind of stupidity. However the people who voted in favor of the proposal merely emulated what has been done in the Federal House.
Theoretically yes. however, any kid who plays in non-sanctioned football games would theoretically lose eligibility in other sports unless they got a waiver from IHSA.
If ESL wanted to leave IHSA for football, they would need to get a "blessing" from the IHSA
Does it say in the by-laws that if belong to the IHSA it's mandatory to belong for every team you field in every sport?
Let's say District football passes and in the district ESL falls into all the teams just forfeit their game with ESL rather than be humiliated. ESL decides to go with a national schedule the following year. If there is a student on the football team who is a four sport athlete (FB,BB, Baseball, track) and he follows all the rules and regulations for all the other sports why would be be ineligible in those sports?
Asking for a friend...
If this gets to a full vote, I think it is very close.
If you assume the following
- 75% of downstate schools, ex St. Louis area vote for it
- 100% of catholic schools and CPS vote against it
- 80% of Chicago area schools vote against
With more than 70% of schools being outside the Chicago area, they have a disproportate impact.
Also remember that each school in a co-op gets a vote. Meaning there are 91 votes in 1A alone vs 64 in 8A.
It's going to be close. If a few Chicago area conference besides the DVC get behind it, it probably passes.
No you can field a team in whatever sport you want.
I'm not in front of my laptop now so I can't pull up the IHSA rules. But the rules say something to the effect of "School cannot provide resources for a student-athlete to participate in a non-IHSA sanctioned sports while school the sport is in season."
In other words, they school cannot provide facilities, pay coaches, issue equipment etc.
The reason that I know this is that when lacrosse become an approved IHSA sport about 7 years ago, originally a few schools (including Loyola) didn't want to join IHSA because they could play a longer season against better opponents as a club team. The IHSA came back and said if you do this, the kids who play are risking eligibly in other sports.
I don’t know man, this seems pretty communist if you ask me.
I wouldn’t assume 75% of downstate schools vote for it.
IMO, most of the small school conferences will be likely no votes.
Conferences like Central Illinois, Lincoln Prairie, HOIC, WIVC, Vermillion Valley really have no incentive to go to districts.
Small schools within these conferences are likely okay where they are at.
The bigger schools in these conferences want ZERO to do with going into a 3A/4A district.
I wouldn't be so sure that many small schools don't want this. Some will vote for it so they don't have to worry about their conference changing, but I feel most will vote for it because it puts scheduling in the hands of the IHSA and takes it off AD's plates. Not having to put together a full football schedule is a huge incentive for schools to vote for this.
How will this affect lower levels? Are they included with districting? Or left to do whatever they can/want with scheduling?
When is the vote? I just looked at the proposed ND district and almost vomited. It'll essentially be a one game season vs St. Pat's. Otherwise, the Dons can play sophomores and backups and still run the table vs Fenton, Amundsen, Lake View, Mather, Prosser, Senn & Steinmetz. Similar for some other Catholic schools (e.g., Iggy/Naz in a district, MC/Fenwick in a district). This would kill so much tradition.
99.999% of other schools could care less about the CCL/ESCC traditions.
Are you looking at the proposed districts from the last vote? Those districts got the vote repealed so I'm guessing the districts will be changed this time around.
Well, if they could care less, then they must care at least a little bit!
Regular season is going to have a lot less juice. High school football fans should care about that, regardless of whether they are a CCL/ESCC or public school fan.
I didn't want to be the grammar police, but that phrase is a pet peeve of mine....
The 4A champ HATED the Districting idea. As did their cross town rival, SHG.
I would love to see a version of districts that keeps the CCL/ESCC and the CPS intact.
Something along the lines of:
Normal districts, but CPS and CCL/ESCC teams are put into districts together. with some logic to move teams up or down when there are no enough teams to comprise one district.
if I have time I may mock up what this could look like.
Something along the lines of:
Normal districts, but CPS and CCL/ESCC teams are put into districts together. with some logic to move teams up or down when there are no enough teams to comprise one district.
if I have time I may mock up what this could look like.
Definitely quite a bit of private shuffling since then and gotta sort out enrollment changes, waiver changes, and success factor changes. Naz back to 5A for now. That district A wouldn't be the worst outcome compared to when they were 6A in the prior proposal. I'd hope they end up there and not B or C...
Definitely lots of bad matchups in the pipeline though...
I think youd almost need to go with broader based districts where it was first split up into 4 classes. Arranged geographically or in the case of private/CPS arranged by that classification. Then come playoff time sorted by enrollment. So you could in theory qualify on a 5A/6A schedule alongside another district mate, but be split into the respective classes come playoff time. Still far from ideal and kind of making the district point moot, but preferable to some of the metro escc/ccl schools playing in 6 cps blowouts esch regular season.
Of course a decent proposal would probably need to qualify that treatment sooo.
Not sure what Rochester being the champs has to do with anything regarding districts and there's more than 2 schools in the south so the comment that it was overwhelmingly passed by schools in the south still remains true.
IHSA member schools have a two-week window from Dec. 4-18 to vote on this proposal, with results posted on Dec. 19.
Love districts, hate districts, somewhere in between, it still kind of blows my mind that the proposal will be voted on without actually knowing the districts, or how CPS fits in, etc.
I’m assuming you mean the Lincoln Prairie conference.
Not sure how upset ”many of them” could be as they had to vote to allow them in the conference in the first place………LOL
Also kind of shows my point about how these small schools wouldn’t want districts.
Here are some of the schools that Lincoln Prairie schools could likely find themselves in districts with:
Tuscola
Central A&M
Pana
St Teresa
Shelbyville
Sesser (Valier)
Casey
Tolono Unity
Monticello
St Joe
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