West Suburban Silver Outlook - Week 9

[OPRF Illini 96]

STANDINGS (conference record listed first):

GW: 5-0, 8-0
HC: 4-1, 7-1
OPRF: 3-2, 4-4
DGN: 3-3, 4-4
YORK: 2-3, 3-5
LT: 2-3, 4-4
PW: 0-5, 0-8


Congratulations to the Hitters for clinching at least a share of the conference title with a hard-fought victory over the Red Devils yesterday. I'd have been there myself, but a friend had free tickets to the U of I Homecoming game and I couldn't pass up the opportunity for great seats - and the fact the Illini upset Wisconsin made the trip worthwhile. Sounds like GW's traditional formula for success was effective. Also sounds like HC put out a great effort on both sides of the ball. But Duchon Field has a history of derailing opponents' unblemished records, and it happened again yesterday.

In other WSS news, a very wild finish in Elmhurst. OPRF keeps alive its playoff hopes with a gutsy win over a York team that never quit and fought to the end. The Huskies will need to have their A+ plus game Friday night to have any shot at knocking off the Hitters.

Tough loss for DGN at home versus LT. Now the Trojans will have to win at DGS to qualify for the playoffs. In a crosstown matchup, anything can happen. Meanwhile, nice win for Dan Hartman's Lions. But like the Huskies, they'll need to step it up in spades to have any shot at knocking off HC.

The conference could have just GW and HC in the state playoffs. Or as many as five depending upon Friday's outcomes. DGN appears to have the least difficult game of the schools fighting to get to five wins, while LT and OPRF have their work cut out for them.

But I'm interested in seeing if both GW and HC have letdowns after such an emotionally-charged game yesterday. If they do, both LT and OPRF are capable of pulling off upsets.

 

[SoCliche]

But I'm interested in seeing if both GW and HC have letdowns after such an emotionally-charged game yesterday. If they do, both LT and OPRF are capable of pulling off upsets.

Nice post. You had me to here ^....but as a kid who begged his parents to take him to Disneyland, and never made it, I won't kill your wish.

 

[RD_Watcher]

But I'm interested in seeing if both GW and HC have letdowns after such an emotionally-charged game yesterday. If they do, both LT and OPRF are capable of pulling off upsets.

It could definitely happen. OPRF (with a much different team) pulled off the upset last year. This year, I don’t see it for them or LT. While LT will be after that 5th win, HC has had this game circled since last March/April when Hartman switched sides. Friday will be an emotionally charged atmosphere at Dickinson.

 

[kitty_bintingot]

HC will get up just as much next Friday as they did yesterday. And they get two key pieces on defense back.

 

[Magnum Opus]

All the predictions that everyone had this year for WSS...what remained is basically history repeats itself! The top three teams, the next three teams, and poor Proviso West with arguably the toughest schedule in Illinois.

I don't see that changing for a long, long time. Some observations and/or questions:

• Why does it seem the name on the front of the Jersey impacts the outcomes of these games more than the players?
• How does OPRF always sneak around and do what they do?
• How does LT NOT always win the WSS?
• When will LT start ALWAYS winning the WSS?
• Why does DGN always seem to miss out on the playoffs after being a "lock" halfway through the season?
• When will Proviso West start recruiting kids back from Naz, Montini and IC?
• York will NEVER beat GBW.
• York should ALWAYS beat HC, but never does.
• How does HC always get in the heads of GBW?

If you name the best coaches in the WSS, 1st, then correlate that list with conference records over the past five seasons....I think you will understand the issues and reasons.

For anyone to simply state that a team like York has less talent than GBW is just ignorant and untrue. For instance, GBW has a lineman that's about 180 lbs (I think). Is he more talented than any one of Yorks Linemen? The answer is no..at least not at that position. But, I'll take 22 of those kids and win a state championship every year. The difference...COACHING! Coaching is everything. Now, put Yorks linemen with GBWs program and HC, and that becomes incredible.

Good Coaches create good players out of air, and excel their talented players to a point of notoriety. Bad coaches cannot create good players and have their talented players wallow in mediocrity.

I will never undestand how any coach and/or administration could possibly think that mediocrity is ok, because it's not. That is a Union mentality!! Teaching kids and players that being mediocre isnt educating or coaching. It's disgusting! Oh...guess what...I'm also a Liberal and I'm saying that.

This is my final WSS point, maybe of all time. The next time you see someone getting on a coach or staff or administration, step back and think about what that person is writing....and maybe why. Any coach can pretend to be "a nice guy" and seem like "he's great with the kids", but ultimately, those players already have parents that will teach them lessons of life and friends who are nice guys. They need a Coach who's basic philosophy isn't mediocrity.

ICs Coach said something I'll never forget...he said "many people shoot for the stars, and get the moon which sounds pretty darn good. Well, I'm not that guy and I wont settle for anything but the stars...the others can settle on the moon. Why settle for anything other than your goal and think falling short is ok, because it's not"!

COACHING is everything. GBW, HC, OPRF and now I'll throw in LT.....All examples of Coaching and how to make success out of whatever group of kids they have....and how to make those kids successful.

If the other Programs want to join the philosophy of the top of the WSS (and Willowbrook btw), I'm pretty sure the door is always open.

 

[Cross Bones]

So talent is equated with weight?

 

[SoCliche]

Good Coaches create good players out of air, and excel their talented players to a point of notoriety. Bad coaches cannot create good players and have their talented players wallow in mediocrity.

COACHING is everything. GBW, HC, OPRF and now I'll throw in LT.....All examples of Coaching and how to make success out of whatever group of kids they have....and how to make those kids successful.

Nice post MO.

This is the biggest lesson I learned (about HS football) when I bought a house and settled down in a community where I could observe football over a longer period of time (28 years). And it was only reinforced by my discovery of this site years ago and all the great insight the various posters have provided.

I played for a HS that had a horrible coaching staff and we were bad but always had talent. Then that HS got a good coach, and the program excelled, only to decline upon his departure. I now live in a community where the team was bad for years and years, then a new coach and staff, elevated it... and to your point MO, kept it elevated regardless of the talent, size and depth.

Coaching matters.

 

[Magnum Opus]

So talent is equated with weight?

That's all you got out of it? That's not what I said at all.

 

[Cross Bones]

That's all you got out of it? That's not what I said at all.

I think there was equivocating between weight and talent in the post. Perhaps the reason the 180lb fella was starting over a larger person is because he was more talented (or as I call it a better football player).

I get what you're attempting to say and I bet we can relate more than you think right now, especially if you've been following York during the last regime. But I think I disagree with a lot of what you said or don't understand how you came to some conclusions.

I agree that sometimes it seems the name on the front of the Jersey wins games.

Why should LT win every year?

From what I can tell OPRF fans (I talk to one after every game every week because he raised me) are disappointed in the outcomes this season.

When was DGN a lock? The conference is one of the more balanced conferences in the state and their automatic crossover with DGS is probably the most balanced yearly crossover in the conference.

Why should York always beat HC?

Is HC in the GBW collective heads?

Not being argumentative but worth the discussion.

 

[mc140]

Coaching matters.

Coaching matters but talent matters more.

 

[SoCliche]

Coaching matters but talent matters more.

Seen a lot of bad teams loaded with talent. Your point taken, I was speaking to the specific point being raised there ("Good Coaches create good players out of air, and excel their talented players to a point of notoriety. Bad coaches cannot create good players and have their talented players wallow in mediocrity.").

 

[Magnum Opus]

I think there was equivocating between weight and talent in the post. Perhaps the reason the 180lb fella was starting over a larger person is because he was more talented (or as I call it a better football player).

I get what you're attempting to say and I bet we can relate more than you think right now, especially if you've been following York during the last regime. But I think I disagree with a lot of what you said or don't understand how you came to some conclusions.

I agree that sometimes it seems the name on the front of the Jersey wins games.

Why should LT win every year?

From what I can tell OPRF fans (I talk to one after every game every week because he raised me) are disappointed in the outcomes this season.

When was DGN a lock? The conference is one of the more balanced conferences in the state and their automatic crossover with DGS is probably the most balanced yearly crossover in the conference.

Why should York always beat HC?

Is HC in the GBW collective heads?

Not being argumentative but worth the discussion.

Btw...Thanks.

You my be right as I used talent in place of potential. Still doesnt destroy what I'm saying.

Better football players are derived through coaching.

LT - Size of the school (s) , facilities, and now Coaching.

OPRF - just my opinion. They seem to be under the radar most of the time given how affluent and discussed the rest of the WSS is.

DGN - 3-1 to start the year...with the OPRF win, they seemed to be a lock. They always seem to falter at the end of the year.

I watch York vs Hinsdale now three times. I dont know how they didnt beat HC this year and last(actually, i do know)....coaching.

HC/GBW/York....York has no issue being in a competitive game with HC, but will always lose. York is always beaten badly by GBW...yet GBW and HC can play close every single game? Back to the.point of the "name.on the front of the jersey".

The comments are relatively global. The point is the "haves" have coaching, the "Have nots" dont. History will repeat itself until the "have nots"change their ways. Player Potential is a start and the "have nots" typically have the players with potential. The "haves" have similar potential, and in rare cases less, but remain on top.

One last point...I think I know this answer..from last seasons WSS teams, which team had the most players off to college to play?

It is about coaching.

 

[RD_Watcher]

Btw...Thanks.

You my be right as I used talent in place of potential. Still doesnt destroy what I'm saying.

Better football players are derived through coaching.

LT - Size of the school (s) , facilities, and now Coaching.

OPRF - just my opinion. They seem to be under the radar most of the time given how affluent and discussed the rest of the WSS is.

DGN - 3-1 to start the year...with the OPRF win, they seemed to be a lock. They always seem to falter at the end of the year.

I watch York vs Hinsdale now three times. I dont know how they didnt beat HC this year and last(actually, i do know)....coaching.

HC/GBW/York....York has no issue being in a competitive game with HC, but will always lose. York is always beaten badly by GBW...yet GBW and HC can play close every single game? Back to the.point of the "name.on the front of the jersey".

The comments are relatively global. The point is the "haves" have coaching, the "Have nots" dont. History will repeat itself until the "have nots"change their ways. Player Potential is a start and the "have nots" typically have the players with potential. The "haves" have similar potential, and in rare cases less, but remain on top.

One last point...I think I know this answer..from last seasons WSS teams, which team had the most players off to college to play?

It is about coaching.

You definitely have a point with coaching. Case in point, HC hired the OL Coach away from York this off-season. HC’s OL has 2 holding penalties all season, with the first coming against PW, and the second against GW.

I am extremely impressed with the amount of quality coaching HC has at every level of the program, including the new additions made after Hartman’s departure.

 

[Magnum Opus]

You definitely have a point with coaching. Case in point, HC hired the OL Coach away from York this off-season. HC’s OL has 2 holding penalties all season, with the first coming against PW, and the second against GW.

I am extremely impressed with the amount of quality coaching HC has at every level of the program, including the new additions made after Hartman’s departure.

And he's a huge loss for york....he a really good coach!

 

[Gene K.]

Btw...Thanks.

You my be right as I used talent in place of potential. Still doesnt destroy what I'm saying.

Better football players are derived through coaching.

LT - Size of the school (s) , facilities, and now Coaching.

OPRF - just my opinion. They seem to be under the radar most of the time given how affluent and discussed the rest of the WSS is.

DGN - 3-1 to start the year...with the OPRF win, they seemed to be a lock. They always seem to falter at the end of the year.

I watch York vs Hinsdale now three times. I dont know how they didnt beat HC this year and last(actually, i do know)....coaching.

HC/GBW/York....York has no issue being in a competitive game with HC, but will always lose. York is always beaten badly by GBW...yet GBW and HC can play close every single game? Back to the.point of the "name.on the front of the jersey".

The comments are relatively global. The point is the "haves" have coaching, the "Have nots" dont. History will repeat itself until the "have nots"change their ways. Player Potential is a start and the "have nots" typically have the players with potential. The "haves" have similar potential, and in rare cases less, but remain on top.

One last point...I think I know this answer..from last seasons WSS teams, which team had the most players off to college to play?

It is about coaching.

Totally agree that a great coach is the key to having a great team. Quite frankly, that is also true with any other organization besides football. A in-coming dynamic knowledgeable leader in any organization will without question improve that organization from where it was at prior to his arrival. A real leader will get the best out of even the mediocre personnel he has and at the same time utilize the top talent to its maximum potential. Will there be immediate success? Sometimes, but usually it takes some time for the in coming leader to learn what he has to work with within the organization (team). The new leader will need to instill his style of leadership is put into place with the entire organization (team) even down to the lowest level.

 

[Magnum Opus]

Still looking for the answer to "which WSS team had the most kids go to play in college"?

Bueler? Anyone? Bueler?

 

[RD_Watcher]

Still looking for the answer to "which WSS team had the most kids go to play in college"?

Bueler? Anyone? Bueler?

I don't know about any other school, nor do I want to take the time to research it - but since 2010, HC has had 61 players go on to play football in college. Not all of them continued to play throughout college. I found this info at http://www.hcfootball.com/alumni.php

Edit - after re-reading the entire thread, I noticed you specifically asked about last year's WSS teams. HC had 8 from the 2019 class.

 

[HSFootballfan_007]

Coaching is important and can keep you in these games in the WSS. However I don’t care who is the HC if you don’t have talent In this league you will not win.

Perfect example is as follows. If Hetlet is the head coach at Proviso West they still lose games this year and if PW coach is at GBW they still win games. Records may not be exactly the same bc GBW prob would not have beat MS & HC without a good coach.

It’s high school football and too many people glorify or rip a coach based on talent they are handed. Public schools you coach what you get and it doesn’t matter the size of the school, it’s the number of football players who actually matter

 

[Duhawk44]

I don't know about any other school, nor do I want to take the time to research it - but since 2010, HC has had 61 players go on to play football in college. Not all of them continued to play throughout college. I found this info at http://www.hcfootball.com/alumni.php

Edit - after re-reading the entire thread, I noticed you specifically asked about last year's WSS teams. HC had 8 from the 2019 class.

Actually they had 10. That website you posted is missing 2 2019 grads that are now U of Illinois and North Dakota players. 8 D1.

 

[Magnum Opus]

I don't know about any other school, nor do I want to take the time to research it - but since 2010, HC has had 61 players go on to play football in college. Not all of them continued to play throughout college. I found this info at http://www.hcfootball.com/alumni.php

Edit - after re-reading the entire thread, I noticed you specifically asked about last year's WSS teams. HC had 8 from the 2019 class.

Sorry...referring to 2018 Season/Class of 2019. My point talent or potential..York had Seven go and play at college from D1 to D3 to Ivy to Juco.

Talent/potential was there, coaching was not.

Wow...I didnt realize HC had so many...that's great.

 

[SoCliche]

...but since 2010, HC has had 61 players go on to play football in college.

Just read in weekend game previews, "The Hilltoppers clinched at least a share of their 12th West Suburban Silver title in 13 years with a 20-17 overtime win over Hinsdale Central last week."

To MOs query...Talent versus coaching. I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

(Please note, sense of humor required, Thursdays are a slow day here, I don't want to be responsible for a flame war, peace out)

 

[SoCliche]

To MOs query...Talent versus coaching.

In fairness, that was not the question...coaching in addition to talent (and other factors).

 

[RD_Watcher]

Just read in weekend game previews, "The Hilltoppers clinched at least a share of their 12th West Suburban Silver title in 13 years with a 20-17 overtime win over Hinsdale Central last week."

To MOs query...Talent versus coaching. I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

(Please note, sense of humor required, Thursdays are a slow day here, I don't want to be responsible for a flame war, peace out)

I noticed that yesterday as well. Since 2008, GW has either won outright or shared (2010, 2018) the WSS Championship every year except 2016 (HC). That is an incredible run, especially with so much talent in this conference at every school over that same time period.

 

[SoCliche]

That is an incredible run, especially with so much talent in this conference at every school over that same time period.

Could be coaching wink wink.

 

[brucealmighy]

Sorry...referring to 2018 Season/Class of 2019. My point talent or potential..York had Seven go and play at college from D1 to D3 to Ivy to Juco.

Talent/potential was there, coaching was not.

Wow...I didnt realize HC had so many...that's great.

Big difference between playing D1 and D3. There are lots of very good players that choose to be full time college students instead of sacrificing their body and time playing lower level college football. Many kids from Glen Ellyn, Hinsdale, Oak Brook, Western Springs, River Forest do not need the finiancial aid from a being a D3 athlete and are happy to pay for a diploma from Notre Dame, Michigan, northwestern, Duke, etc...

 

[RD_Watcher]

Big difference between playing D1 and D3. There are lots of very good players that choose to be full time college students instead of sacrificing their body and time playing lower level college football. Many kids from Glen Ellyn, Hinsdale, Oak Brook, Western Springs, River Forest do not need the finiancial aid from a being a D3 athlete and are happy to pay for a diploma from Notre Dame, Michigan, northwestern, Duke, etc...

You are right, there is a big difference between D1 and D3. There’s also a big difference between D1 FBS and D1 FCS. I would think most kids go on to the school that best suits them, their situation, and their life goals, understanding what they are and are not giving up in return.

I’m struggling to determine if you are making an argument one way or the other, or simply making a statement.

 

[RD_Watcher]

Coaching is important and can keep you in these games in the WSS. However I don’t care who is the HC if you don’t have talent In this league you will not win.

Perfect example is as follows. If Hetlet is the head coach at Proviso West they still lose games this year and if PW coach is at GBW they still win games. Records may not be exactly the same bc GBW prob would not have beat MS & HC without a good coach.

It’s high school football and too many people glorify or rip a coach based on talent they are handed. Public schools you coach what you get and it doesn’t matter the size of the school, it’s the number of football players who actually matter

What year did Hetlet move from HC to GBW?

I refuse to believe PW does not have some talent in the hallways. I also refuse to believe the coaching staff there is so bad, they can’t get out of their own way. I do believe PW has a “football culture” problem that needs to be dealt with. Anyone who has undergone a culture shift in business understands it is a very messy, difficult process - and not accomplished over night. So while the coaches at PW may need further development, they likely have much more to deal with off the field than the staffs at any of the other schools in the conference.

FWIW, I did see PW Freshmen play a few weeks ago. They have some real size on the line, and talent in the backfield. If the coaches can keep those kids in the weight room and involved with school functions and programs, PW may not be an automatic W in the near future.

 

[Ndrfootball1132]

I noticed that yesterday as well. Since 2008, GW has either won outright or shared (2010, 2018) the WSS Championship every year except 2016 (HC). That is an incredible run, especially with so much talent in this conference at every school over that same time period.

Interesting to see.... so let's look at some other numbers since the 2008 season and compare 2008 to 2019:
DGN 2270 to 2195 = -85
York 2570 to 2770 = 200
GBW 2127 to 2347 = 220
PW 2851 to 2207 = - 644
HC 2635 to 2776 = 131
Lyons 3876 to 3990 = 123
OPRF 3172 to 3332 = 160

The trend is that all the schools have increased in population with the exception on DGN who is down 85 students, but PW is down 644 (23%). Pretty fascinating to see.
GBW went 1-8 the year prior to Hetlet and has not had a losing season since he came on board. It's a combination of Coaching & Talent, but don't forget Administration. It's easy to be a good coach when you have talented players around, but the true test of a coach is when it's a down year and don't have the same level of talent. How many players are leaving WSS schools for Private Schools? I'm sure there are a number of them(less so in some area than others), but when you look at Naz, Fenwick, Montini, ICCP, Mt Carmel and even many other WSS, etc you see players that grew up/still live in Hillside, Westchester, Bellwood, etc. Interesting?? Develop a community, work with the administration, have quality coaches, and decent talent pool that buys into what you are doing and you get a quality product. Who's the longest tenured coach in the WSS? You guessed it Hetlet at GBW. Consistency doesn't hurt either, but he's a very good coach. There are others in the WSS that have winning pedigrees or are doing the right things , and will do well with their teams, but it does take time, and support from the the school/community etc. Don't forget York was 1-8 2 short years ago, LT 1-8 last year.

 

[Ndrfootball1132]

What year did Hetlet move from HC to GBW?

I refuse to believe PW does not have some talent in the hallways. I also refuse to believe the coaching staff there is so bad, they can’t get out of their own way. I do believe PW has a “football culture” problem that needs to be dealt with. Anyone who has undergone a culture shift in business understands it is a very messy, difficult process - and not accomplished over night. So while the coaches at PW may need further development, they likely have much more to deal with off the field than the staffs at any of the other schools in the conference.

FWIW, I did see PW Freshmen play a few weeks ago. They have some real size on the line, and talent in the backfield. If the coaches can keep those kids in the weight room and involved with school functions and programs, PW may not be an automatic W in the near future.

See my last response...

 

[USD24]

Actually they had 10. That website you posted is missing 2 2019 grads that are now U of Illinois and North Dakota players. 8 D1.

And yet with 8 D1 seniors, lost in the second round of the playoffs. Can that be attributed to poor coaching?

 

[brucealmighy]

You are right, there is a big difference between D1 and D3. There’s also a big difference between D1 FBS and D1 FCS. I would think most kids go on to the school that best suits them, their situation, and their life goals, understanding what they are and are not giving up in return.

I’m struggling to determine if you are making an argument one way or the other, or simply making a statement.

My point was the number of players that went on to play any level of college football makes zero difference if 3/4 of the players are on lower level teams. Most D3 teams will take anyone that is willing to play so referencing that a team school have been good because it had a lot of D3 players is not true.

 

[RD_Watcher]

My point was the number of players that went on to play any level of college football makes zero difference if 3/4 of the players are on lower level teams. Most D3 teams will take anyone that is willing to play so referencing that a team school have been good because it had a lot of D3 players is not true.

I don’t think that is true about D3 teams. Augastana isn’t out here offering anyone and everyone. Agree, not everyone is FBS, or even FCS quality, but I’m sure there are kids who could have played at a D2 school if the situation was right for them. Go watch a D3 game and you’ll see 2 or 3 players and wonder why they aren’t somewhere else.

 

[RD_Watcher]

And yet with 8 D1 seniors, lost in the second round of the playoffs. Can that be attributed to poor coaching?

I’m sure some would argue yes. Warren (which is up by Six Flags, in case you didn’t know) was a great team, and it came down to the wire. It’s also HS Football, so, hard to say it was only 1 variable.

 

[Ndrfootball1132]

I don’t think that is true about D3 teams. Augastana isn’t out here offering anyone and everyone. Agree, not everyone is FBS, or even FCS quality, but I’m sure there are kids who could have played at a D2 school if the situation was right for them. Go watch a D3 game and you’ll see 2 or 3 players and wonder why they aren’t somewhere else.

Technically D3 is not Offering anyone anything...they may offer a roster spot, and provide some "Leadership Grants" etc, but to your point only 8% of HS Football players, play in College (2.5% at D1, 1.7% at D2, and 2.3% at D3)
So if you have 9 players on your team of 70 you are above average.

 

[SoCliche]

It’s also HS Football, so, hard to say it was only 1 variable.

"Absolutely!" — Mitch Trubisky, Oct. 24, 2019

 

[SoCliche]

Warren (which is up by Six Flags, in case you didn’t know)

I have a feeling this is going to be a tee shirt soon.

 

[USD24]

Technically D3 is not Offering anyone anything...they may offer a roster spot, and provide some "Leadership Grants" etc, but to your point only 8% of HS Football players, play in College (2.5% at D1, 1.7% at D2, and 2.3% at D3)
So if you have 9 players on your team of 70 you are above average.

That’s 9 players per class, so closer to 9 out of 30.

 

[Duhawk44]

That’s 9 players per class, so closer to 9 out of 30.

I was told there would be no math....

 

[Duhawk44]

And yet with 8 D1 seniors, lost in the second round of the playoffs. Can that be attributed to poor coaching?

Valid question, however there are 14 other starting positions on a team. A last minute turnover stopped what looked like probable OT or an outright win against a pretty good Warren team. That's why they play the games, USD....

 

[brucealmighy]

I don’t think that is true about D3 teams. Augastana isn’t out here offering anyone and everyone. Agree, not everyone is FBS, or even FCS quality, but I’m sure there are kids who could have played at a D2 school if the situation was right for them. Go watch a D3 game and you’ll see 2 or 3 players and wonder why they aren’t somewhere else.

I guarantee if a kid was going to school at Augustana and wanted to play on the team that they are not going to tell him no. Lower levels are desperate for kids in most sports.