ADVERTISEMENT

Soucie Districts

Biggest issue with the NIPL is classification and travel.

There are 24 CCL/ESCC schools. Over a dozen other Chicagoland private schools, mostly smaller. Plus a fair number of schools dotting the state (SHG, Ottawa Marquette, Peru St. Bede, Boylan, Quincy ND, Peoria ND, Althoff, Alleman, etc.

Then there is the question of including lab schools or not as well as open enrollment CPS.

But classification is the biggest issue. 2 classes likely not enough to satisfy the constituents as schools of about 400 do not want to be lumped in with Marist. Realistically, you would need 3 classes to satisfy enough constituents. And would the outlying non Chicagoland schools want to join given the postseason travel requirements? And would they still play IHSA schools in the regular season, which would ease the scheduling burden and thus allow more of those downstate schools to choose the private postseason.

Other big elephant in the room is MC and LA. They are recruiting at and performing at levels above their CCL/ESCC peers right now. Their enrollment combined with football success over the last decade leaves them as just different that the rest. Even Marist, BR, and Rita aren't on a level playing surface with them. MC and LA likely prefer playing 8A public schools to playing Brother Rice and St. Rita in an annual semifinal before playing each other every year in a NIPL title game.

But if the rest of the privates break off, would the publics really still want to include the two most dominant large school private schools in their 8A playoff? I believe Texas uses this model with the biggest private schools playing with the publics. Not sure that would be well received here. But I don't think the NIPL offers MC or LA what they need.

And other sports are a whole other question. Who knows if other sports would break away or if the majority of private schools even have an appetite for breaking away in all other sports. This is all conjecture until the IHSA membership forces a hand to be played and the answers to those questions would depend on how uncomfortable the IHSA decisions make private schools.
Thanks for the insight.

Even if privates are forced to their breaking point, I'm curious as to how the IHSA would respond. Would they allow NIPL for just football? Would they allow NIPL schools to schedule IHSA schools for regular season?

Let's say there's a total of 48 schools that would join NIPL, that's 3 classes of 16 schools. This is convenient for playoff purposes numbers wise but then all schools would make the playoffs unless the playoffs were shortened and only included 8 teams per class. Since this would be separate from the IHSA would NIPL continue to classify based on size or would they use their own formula to classify based on competitiveness?

I could be completely wrong but I just don't see how this works, mainly because there doesn't seem to be enough potential participants throughout the state. I don't see any CPS schools wanting to join this.
 
Question for you or anyone else in the know regarding NIPL. How would this work exactly and are there enough participants? Also, how would this effect other sports?

Currently there are 24 schools in the CCL/ESCC, and I'm not certain on how many other private schools outside of the Chicagoland area. How would postseason work given the varying size of the schools? Two separate private champs? What if the majority of schools are in favor of NIPL but some school prefer the current setup?
The more participants playing within the NIPL, the more exciting the NIPL will be. That begs the question of who gets to enjoy the NIPL and who is left on the outside and looking in. The NIPL acronym stands for Northeastern Illinois Private League. So, what constitutes northeastern Illinois?

In a thread that got deleted a month or so ago, I proposed drawing a quadrilateral from Rockford south to Peru, east to Kankakee, north to Mundelein, and west to Rockford -- inside of which would capture all those CCL/ESCC schools plus around 12-13 other football playing private schools. Divisions with 9 schools in each would be compiled according to competitive level. Schools would play a 10 game regular season with 8 division games and two interdivisional non-cons between the top two and bottom two divisions. There would be interdivisional playoffs between the top four schools in each division, again between the top two and bottom two divisions, thereby creating two NIPL champions.

A big wild card here is the P in Private. IF the IHSA were to go to separate playoffs for boundaried vs. non-boundaried schools, would the NIPL membership take a "the more, the merrier" approach and allow non-boundaried public schools to enjoy the NIPL as well? I would be in favor of exposing the NIPL to non-boundaried public schools in northeastern Illinois. It would help to flesh out the NIPL, making it bigger and more exciting. If that were to happen, then the NIPL membership would grow by 83 schools, many of which would be football playing.

Also fleshing out the NIPL would be all those girls schools plus other non-football playing private schools. This addition of those 40 private schools would help to create a full and stimulating NIPL in non-football sports.
 
Last edited:
The more participants playing within the NIPL, the more exciting the NIPL will be. That begs the question of who gets to enjoy the NIPL and who is left on the outside and looking in. The NIPL acronym stands for Northeastern Illinois Private League. So, what constitutes northeastern Illinois?

In a thread that got deleted a month or so ago, I proposed drawing a quadrilateral from Rockford south to Peru, east to Kankakee, north to Mundelein, and west to Rockford -- inside of which would capture all those CCL/ESCC schools plus around 12-13 other football playing private schools. Divisions with 9 schools in each would be compiled according to competitive level. Schools would play a 10 game regular season with 8 division games and two interdivisional non-cons between the top two and bottom two divisions. There would be interdivisional playoffs between the top four schools in each division, again between the top two and bottom two divisions, thereby creating two NIPL champions.

A big wild card here is the P in Private. IF the IHSA were to go to separate playoffs for boundaried vs. non-boundaried schools, would the NIPL membership take a "the more, the merrier" approach and allow non-boundaried public schools to enjoy the NIPL as well? I would be in favor of exposing the NIPL to non-boundaried public schools in northeastern Illinois. It would help to flesh out the NIPL, making it bigger and more exciting.

Also fleshing out the NIPL would be all those girls schools plus other non-football playing private schools. This would create a much fuller and more stimulating NIPL in non-football sports.
Quite the inuendo laden post.

I think what you desire is fantasy. In this hypothetical I don't foresee the IHSA allowing any school to opt in to the NIPL.

Given your parameters I'm not sure this addresses your biggest pet peeve, blowouts. Just like in the current IHSA proposal for districts currently up for a vote the 4th ranked team in any NIPL division could possibly have a losing record and go up against a potentially undefeated top seed.

Also, how would you classify the teams? I'm assuming you would want them classified based on a competitive basis rather than size alone. So who makes that choice?

What becomes of the non-boundary schools outside of the NIPL's proposed borders?
 
Quite the inuendo laden post.

I have no idea what you are talking about. ;)

I think what you desire is fantasy. In this hypothetical I don't foresee the IHSA allowing any school to opt in to the NIPL.

The IHSA is a voluntary membership association. It wouldn't have a say about which schools choose to opt in.

Given your parameters I'm not sure this addresses your biggest pet peeve, blowouts. Just like in the current IHSA proposal for districts currently up for a vote the 4th ranked team in any NIPL division could possibly have a losing record and go up against a potentially undefeated top seed.

Cost of doing business. I don't like blowouts but I also understand they are not 100% avoidable. I could possibly see the playoffs being intradivisional for the first two rounds and then a championship game pitting the top two and bottom two divisions against each other, but that would still set up a potential blowout in the championship game. Add those non-boundaried public schools into the mix, and that would make for more divisions and potentially fewer blowouts especially within the less competitive divisions.

Also, how would you classify the teams? I'm assuming you would want them classified based on a competitive basis rather than size alone. So who makes that choice?

I don't know. For football, and since it is a relatively small number of schools in a relatively compact area, perhaps we could try allowing schools to classify themselves by quartile? Disputes/ties could be settled by enrollment or previous year's record? I could also see putting together a committee consisting of HCs from schools of all sizes that would hash it out. The possibilities are intriguing.

What becomes of the non-boundary schools outside of the NIPL's proposed borders?

All four of them? You tell me. Would the IHSA membership that remains after the northeastern Illinois privates and non-boundaried publics split off still want to create separate classes for boundaried and non-boundaried schools even if there are only four non-boundaried public schools?
 
Last edited:
Then there is the question of including lab schools or not as well as open enrollment CPS.
I can confidently tell you that there is a zero percent chance the CPS and CCL/ESCC join forces in some sort of private + unboundaried league. Something that neither party would want for a multitude of reasons.
Other big elephant in the room is MC and LA. They are recruiting at and performing at levels above their CCL/ESCC peers right now. Their enrollment combined with football success over the last decade leaves them as just different that the rest. Even Marist, BR, and Rita aren't on a level playing surface with them. MC and LA likely prefer playing 8A public schools to playing Brother Rice and St. Rita in an annual semifinal before playing each other every year in a NIPL title game.
Why are Rita, Marist, and BR "not on a level playing field", with the exception of the 5 school's differences in size? Or do you just mean they have not had the same level of success? I wouldn't equate "kids wanting to go there for football because MC/LA are good" with an unlevel playing field.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "they are recruiting at a different level right now", beyond the aforementioned "kids like going to schools that are good if they have the choice". "Recruiting" gets thrown around on day on here but operating a quality program that attracts students is certainly not analogous to the IHSA or the layman's definition of recruiting.
And other sports are a whole other question. Who knows if other sports would break away or if the majority of private schools even have an appetite for breaking away in all other sports. This is all conjecture until the IHSA membership forces a hand to be played and the answers to those questions would depend on how uncomfortable the IHSA decisions make private schools.
I really don't think ANY private schools have much of an appetitive for breaking off. The appetite typically seems to be on the public side to "kick them out".
 
All four of them? You tell me. Would the IHSA membership that remains after the northeastern Illinois privates and non-boundaried publics split off still want to create separate classes for boundaried and non-boundaried schools even if there are only four non-boundaried public schools?
Guys, this part is simply not happening. Clark, Goode, Brooks, CICS-Longwood, and Ag Science are not joining St Patrick, Rita, and Viator in a new league...
 
Guys, this part is simply not happening. Clark, Goode, Brooks, CICS-Longwood, and Ag Science are not joining St Patrick, Rita, and Viator in a new league...
You are right, they probably wouldn't. The ONLY way it might happen is if the northeastern Illinois private schools form the NIPL after the IHSA votes in separate playoffs for boundaried and non-boundaried schools, and the non-boundaried public schools are forced into their own playoffs with a handful of private schools from outside the NIPL.

In a case like that, if the IHSA were to maintain those separate playoffs so that Tuscola doesn't whine IN ADVANCE about playing Althoff in the playoffs, would the CPL non-boundaried schools and the handful of other non-boundaried schools in the NIPL area [I was tempted to make a play on words there] go along with that? Would they want their own separate playoffs within the IHSA? Can you say for sure that they wouldn't want to explore the NIPL or that the NIPL schools would take a "hands off" approach to them?
 
Last edited:
I can confidently tell you that there is a zero percent chance the CPS and CCL/ESCC join forces in some sort of private + unboundaried league. Something that neither party would want for a multitude of reasons.

Why are Rita, Marist, and BR "not on a level playing field", with the exception of the 5 school's differences in size? Or do you just mean they have not had the same level of success? I wouldn't equate "kids wanting to go there for football because MC/LA are good" with an unlevel playing field.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "they are recruiting at a different level right now", beyond the aforementioned "kids like going to schools that are good if they have the choice". "Recruiting" gets thrown around on day on here but operating a quality program that attracts students is certainly not analogous to the IHSA or the layman's definition of recruiting.

I really don't think ANY private schools have much of an appetitive for breaking off. The appetite typically seems to be on the public side to "kick them out".


Agree that there will not be private and nonboundaried separation if the privates form a new organization. It is more interesting if the IHSA were to create some type of segregated system within their ranks. Then it is more likely that University High Schools and some CPS schools get lumped into the nonboundaried category.

And yes, most private schools are in favor of the status quo. Truthfully, MC playing in 7A but not the largest class is a good place for them to continue to dominate. JC, Naz, and St. Francis playing mid size publics is ideal for them. Not saying it is "right." It is simply what they desire. MC won't be bothered by the fact that they "only" won 7A just like Naz doesn't mind people claiming they are ducking competition by being in 5A. The status quo is preferred for just about all private schools (and many publics as well).

A separation would leave MC and LA with a tough choice. In looking to attract students, do they think they would have a more appealing postseason with Marist and Rita or Maine South and LWE. It is an interesting question and one I am not sure they have an answer to yet. And they certainly don't need an answer as this is all hypothetical and hopefully just in our imagination.
 
You are right, they probably wouldn't. The ONLY way it might happen is if the northeastern Illinois private schools form the NIPL after the IHSA votes in separate playoffs for boundaried and non-boundaried schools, and the non-boundaried public schools are forced into their own playoffs with a handful of private schools from outside the NIPL.

In a case like that, if the IHSA were to maintain those separate playoffs so that Tuscola doesn't whine IN ADVANCE about playing Althoff in the playoffs, would the CPL non-boundaried schools and the handful of other non-boundaried schools in the NIPL area [I was tempted to make a play on words there] go along with that? Would they want their own separate playoffs within the IHSA? Can you say for sure that they wouldn't want to explore the NIPL or that the NIPL schools would take a "hands off" approach to them?

Agree that there will not be private and nonboundaried separation if the privates form a new organization. It is more interesting if the IHSA were to create some type of segregated system within their ranks. Then it is more likely that University High Schools and some CPS schools get lumped into the nonboundaried category.

Guys I really think this is a total non-consideration for 99% of the state. There are just TWO public nonboundaried schools playing football outside of CPS: Normal University (had their first winning season in 8 years this year) and Quest Charter (who went winless this year) - feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I believe school for the deaf no longer plays football, leaving just those two.

On the CPS side, since the Covid shutdown the only non-boundaried schools to even win a playoff game (vs a non CPS opponent) are Simeon (R1 over Oak Forest last year) and Phillips (Dixon and Kewaunee in '21). Again, feel free to check me on this, I can't think of another that has done it. Those are two of like 50 nonboundaried schools in CPS - separating them would serve no purpose.
 
Agree that there will not be private and nonboundaried separation if the privates form a new organization. It is more interesting if the IHSA were to create some type of segregated system within their ranks. Then it is more likely that University High Schools and some CPS schools get lumped into the nonboundaried category.

I think this makes for interesting speculation.

IF the IHSA creates separate classes, do they do so for private schools only? Or do they do it for all non-boundaried schools?

If for private schools only, then I say the private schools should leave entirely. Or at least those in northeastern Illinois should leave and form the NIPL. Why should those schools be forced into their own playoffs that would be governed by the public school dominated IHSA? Would private schools accept the public school Cobden High School Appleknockers representative from far southern Illinois voting on matters affecting their playoffs? Do the private schools voluntarily accept all the rules and regulations whined for by the public schools over the years and designed to "even the playing field" when it's their own playing field?

If for all non-boundaried schools, then the same questions as above still apply but perhaps to a lesser extent.

A separation would leave MC and LA with a tough choice. In looking to attract students, do they think they would have a more appealing postseason with Marist and Rita or Maine South and LWE. It is an interesting question and one I am not sure they have an answer to yet. And they certainly don't need an answer as this is all hypothetical and hopefully just in our imagination.

Perhaps their post season would be more appealing with each of those two facing off against each other in the playoffs...
 
On the CPS side, since the Covid shutdown the only non-boundaried schools to even win a playoff game (vs a non CPS opponent) are Simeon (R1 over Oak Forest last year) and Phillips (Dixon and Kewaunee in '21). Again, feel free to check me on this, I can't think of another that has done it. Those are two of like 50 nonboundaried schools in CPS - separating them would serve no purpose.
If the IHSA separates out private schools only, I think those non-boundaried public schools should rightfully ask their public school brethren in the IHSA why they got thrown under the bus with all the private schools when the IHSA instituted the multiplier almost 20 years ago.
 
Last edited:
If the IHSA separates out private schools only, I think those non-boundaried public schools should rightfully ask their public school brethren in the IHSA why they got thrown under the bus with all the private schools when the IHSA instituted the multiplier almost 20 years ago.
The thing is, they didn't. The multiplier only takes effect after a certain amount of playoff success. There are ZERO CPS teams with an active multiplier in the '23-'25 cycle. And only two for basketball - Simeon and WY.
 
Even if privates are forced to their breaking point, I'm curious as to how the IHSA would respond. Would they allow NIPL for just football? Would they allow NIPL schools to schedule IHSA schools for regular season?

The NIPL isn't a conference. It's a separate athletic association in all sports.

It's an interesting question regarding inter-association regular season scheduling. If the NIPL membership decides simply to play all games within their own membership, the question is moot. If the NIPL membership is open to playing IHSA members or OOS schools, would the IHSA allow its members to schedule regular season games with NIPL members?

Let's say there's a total of 48 schools that would join NIPL, that's 3 classes of 16 schools.

There are roughly 90 private schools currently members of the IHSA within the boundaries I outlined in a previous post in this thread. Of those, approx 37 play football.

I could be completely wrong but I just don't see how this works, mainly because there doesn't seem to be enough potential participants throughout the state. I don't see any CPS schools wanting to join this.

I agree it isn't ideal from a numbers perspective. But if the IHSA forces the private schools' hands by creating public and private playoffs, then we'll just have to make do. Having our own athletic association does allow for doing things differently like 10 game regular seasons, spring football, longer pre-seasons, etc. Would the CPL non-boundaried schools want to participate if the IHSA separates out all non-boundaried schools from the playoffs instead of just private schools?
 
I think this makes for interesting speculation.

IF the IHSA creates separate classes, do they do so for private schools only? Or do they do it for all non-boundaried schools?

If for private schools only, then I say the private schools should leave entirely. Or at least those in northeastern Illinois should leave and form the NIPL. Why should those schools be forced into their own playoffs that would be governed by the public school dominated IHSA? Would private schools accept the public school Cobden High School Appleknockers representative from far southern Illinois voting on matters affecting their playoffs? Do the private schools voluntarily accept all the rules and regulations whined for by the public schools over the years and designed to "even the playing field" when it's their own playing field?

If for all non-boundaried schools, then the same questions as above still apply but perhaps to a lesser extent.



Perhaps their post season would be more appealing with each of those two facing off against each other in the playoffs...
It is a fascinating question of how appealing an all private postseason would be. I agree MC and LA would like the chance to play each other in an elimination game, which they are not always afforded now.

However, it all comes down to constituencies. If they remain substantially elevated from their peers, I don't see the appetite for Rice, Rita, Marist, Carmel, Viator, Ignatius, etc to get beat by 30 often in the postseason to last more than a year or two. That would be unsatisfying to the Big 2 and unsatisfying to the schools getting beaten.

And that's where the intrigue lies. Would a NIPL operate best with an open class of 8 schools? 4 schools?

And then 2 enrollment classifications?

If it's just 2 enrollment classifications alone, I don't see a 5-4/4-5 St. Francis, Marist, Carmel, ND, or Fenwick wanting to be the 8 seed against 9-0 Loyola each year.

I know, I know, every conference needs cannon fodder (Vandy in the SEC, etc.) But in setting up constituencies for a brand new postseason format, I believe those that would be candidates for the open class (MC, LA, Rice, Naz, etc) would be thoroughly outnumbered by the number of schools that would want to segregate them from their own institutions. As has been mentioned in this thread, banners are forever and every school wants a reasonable chance to compete. Marian Catholic knows they have no chance in a playoff with MC or Loyola or probably even Rice.

But if there can be a 4 team or 8 team open class, perhaps Marian can make a somewhat deep run against the likes of Laurence and Fenwick in the "large school class" underneath the open class.

It's just an intriguing question about the voting interests. The mid and small sized private schools would seemingly be heavily invested in keeping an open or large school classification of the smallest amount possible to keep them insulated from having to play the bigger schools.

Look no further than IC and Rochester (who had recently defeated Rita) going up against Loyola in recent years and realizing it's a whole different beast than they are capable of playing. If IC is feeling that way, then we know Leo and DePaul and St. Pat's and Benet and Laurence are likely feeling similar things.

And that's all that matters. Not what is right or best, but what would these institutions push for in a real world scenario. And it's not two 16 team classes where St. Francis gets crushed by Loyola in the large class and Leo gets crushed by Montini in the small class.

I just believe the constituents would demand at least 3 classifications and the largest/open class would have a lot of advocates calling for the smallest possible grouping to separate the two perceived juggernauts from most other institutions.
 
The thing is, they didn't. The multiplier only takes effect after a certain amount of playoff success. There are ZERO CPS teams with an active multiplier in the '23-'25 cycle. And only two for basketball - Simeon and WY.
They did. BEFORE the waiver was instituted, ALL public non-boundaried schools were multiplied, regardless of playoff success or the lack thereof.

Case in point: In 2008, North Lawndale Charter with 463 students was classified in 3A for boys hoops. It made it to the semis were it lost to a boundaried public school with an enrollment of 1,536 students. That is just one example. There are many, many more.
 
They did. BEFORE the waiver was instituted, ALL public non-boundaried schools were multiplied, regardless of playoff success or the lack thereof.

Case in point: In 2008, North Lawndale Charter with 463 students was classified in 3A for boys hoops. It made it to the semis were it lost to a boundaried public school with an enrollment of 1,536 students. That is just one example. There are many, many more.
In the '08 hoops tourney North Lawndale won the 2A state championship... The prior year ('06-'07) there were only two classes and NLCP was the 1A runner up... but I guess in '09 they got bounced in the semis so that must be what you are referencing.

I wasn't aware of the history of the waiver, so I appreciate the history lesson.

Looks like the multiplier was introduced in 2006, just prior to the expansion of classes. The automatic waiver was introduced in 2011, and there have been incremental changes to the waiver since then.

Seems like water under the bridge to me, CPS has won 19 state hoops titles since '06.
 
In the '08 hoops tourney North Lawndale won the 2A state championship... The prior year ('06-'07) there were only two classes and NLCP was the 1A runner up... but I guess in '09 they got bounced in the semis so that must be what you are referencing.

It was 2009. My bad.

Leo, at 460 students (230 boys), was also in that same 3A hoops bracket in 2009...and lost in the semis to a school of 1580 students.
 
However, it all comes down to constituencies. If they remain substantially elevated from their peers, I don't see the appetite for Rice, Rita, Marist, Carmel, Viator, Ignatius, etc to get beat by 30 often in the postseason to last more than a year or two. That would be unsatisfying to the Big 2 and unsatisfying to the schools getting beaten.

Less than a handful of years ago, Marist beat Loyola twice in the same season. Just three regular seasons ago, counting the one that just finished, LA beat Rice and Fenwick both by 3-point margins. In that same regular season, MC lost to Rice twice and were shut out 27-0 by Ignatius. I think you may be a bit premature in crowning LA and MC as permanent kings of the conference hill.

There was a time when people thought that JCA would never be knocked off the top of the ESCC or Driscoll from the top of the SCC or WWS from the top of the DVC. Things change.
 
The biggest issue with a hypothetical NIPL is still justifying it's value for all other sports. For as much as football matters, I doubt many are going to take the type of football-centric view to really make something like that a reality. Then you end up with a massive first mover problem. 4-5 schools taking a leap on their own is a huge risk for them. And they potentially burn a lot more than they gain in just football.

Now if IHSA in the future were to break off all sports into public/private it suddenly becomes somewhat interesting since they suddenly lose a lot less in a move. But we also don't really have any evidence any full separation measure will even come up to a vote (or even a football only vote)

So it's a fun fantasy idea. Like playing Madden. Actually if anyone wants there is a great mobile college football I've played that allows custom universes. You can create your fantasy NIPL and live it up. Hit me up if you want the details lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: mchsalumni
Now if IHSA in the future were to break off all sports into public/private it suddenly becomes somewhat interesting since they suddenly lose a lot less in a move. But we also don't really have any evidence any full separation measure will even come up to a vote (or even a football only vote)

It's only a matter of time before that proposal is made.
 
Guys I really think this is a total non-consideration for 99% of the state. There are just TWO public nonboundaried schools playing football outside of CPS: Normal University (had their first winning season in 8 years this year) and Quest Charter (who went winless this year) - feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I believe school for the deaf no longer plays football, leaving just those two.

On the CPS side, since the Covid shutdown the only non-boundaried schools to even win a playoff game (vs a non CPS opponent) are Simeon (R1 over Oak Forest last year) and Phillips (Dixon and Kewaunee in '21). Again, feel free to check me on this, I can't think of another that has done it. Those are two of like 50 nonboundaried schools in CPS - separating them would serve no purpose.
You forgot about Clark in 2021. Won first rd against Elmwood Brimfield.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HotBeer
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT