Sangamo Conference Woes

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

maybe they should see about trying get another team from their conference (new berlin maybe) to join the South Central with them to give them more teams about their level.

then it could split like

pana	staunton
riverton	gillespie
north mac	southwestern
carlinville	greenville
hillsboro	hillsboro
new berlin	vandalia

you can play cross division weeks 1-2 and 8-9 and play your division games 3-7

Moving Riverton to the South Central is no better than the Sangamo. Riverton could try to get into the WIVC but they won't do that unless another school would goin. Too bad Pawnee and Kincaid couldn't coop or consolidate and get back into 11 man football. Riverton and Pawnee/Kincaid teams would be a good match for the WIVC or Lincoln Prairie. There's the Heart of Central Illinois and Lincoln Prairie Conference but they are set unless schools coop or consolidate. Going independent will not work for Riverton. 8-man seems to be the right call for Riverton.

 

[cigaros]

You are accurate with that assessment. As I said in my first comment, Williamsville has a reputation of falling short. They enjoy being the big fish in a small pond. They have not "played up" in any regular season game since I began following the area teams in 2001. SHG plays up. Rochester plays up. In fact, most of the Sangamo plays up as it has multiple 1A and 2A teams playing the 3A teams within the conference. QND, is going to get crushed in their first year in the CS8. However, they will get better.

They have a 3A title and a couple 2nd place finishes. It’s not like their schedule doesn’t prepare them for the playoffs.

It seems the Williamsville coaching staff did the right thing today in scheduling Byron. Just as I said in previous posts. Playing actual competition rather than guaranteed wins is what prepares you for the playoffs.

 

[4Anorth]

It's a quarter of an hour shy of 3 hours from Billsburg to Westmont. It's about, with rounding, a 6 hour round-trip for the travelling side. The running clock is imminent, that we can all agree on.

I may do some digging but if I know Williamsville the way I think I do... they're more than fine with a W3 win for seeding purposes no matter how they can get it.

As anyone from Will/Grundy Counties can attest, that time is barring any construction or accident traffic....can become a nightmare real fast.

 

[doctor_d]

It seems the Williamsville coaching staff did the right thing today in scheduling Byron. Just as I said in previous posts. Playing actual competition rather than guaranteed wins is what prepares you for the playoffs.

Well it definitely shows that Willyville isn’t ducking competition.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

With the Sangamo and BNC having problems wouldn't it be best to remove Riverton and Rock Christian for football thus allowing games between the two conferences on a yearly basis?

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Y

With the Sangamo and BNC having problems wouldn't it be best to remove Riverton and Rock Christian for football thus allowing games between the two conferences on a yearly basis?

ou could do that but the proximity of the conferences isn’t good. For example, Oregon is 186 miles from Athens. Byron is 180 miles from Williamsville.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Y

ou could do that but the proximity of the conferences isn’t good. For example, Oregon is 186 miles from Athens. Byron is 180 miles from Williamsville.

I would think for the stability of one's schedule, sacrifices must accepted.

 

[cigaros]

Well it definitely shows that Willyville isn’t ducking competition

Well it definitely shows that Willyville isn’t ducking competition.

It only took 21 years for them to purposely schedule a team of value outside of their conference or playoffs. But yes, this should make them better. SHG scheduled ESL in the preseason, CBC and Mascoutah in the regular season. Those are tremendous upgrades over the Lincoln, MacArthur, and Eisenhowers they previously had to play in their conference. Meanwhile Rochester gets "dogged" on for showing up to play LA in 2021. And they follow up by scheduling Belleville West (7A) in the preseason, and Cardinal Ritter (2022 and 2023 Missouri State champs- equivalent to Illinois 5A classification) and Simeon (6A/7A) in the regular season.

I predict Byron by 21. Massey says 27, however it's at Williamsville.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

I never claimed QND was a powerhouse, or the material to make one. You've made that up in your head. In fact, I didn't even mention QND in this thread. YOU did. And for what? That's what I was asking. A complete stray, for what? To remind QND how much better you are? For what it's worth, in the time you listed QND made a run in 3A to the semi's. Just not as good as they once were, slim years happen my guy. You have, however, reminded me why we, QND, hate Rochester. Pompous douche canoe's who refuse to challenge yourselves and instead remain in 4A where the challenge will never exist. Then talk down to those 4A or smaller programs like you invented football... Pathetic, honestly.

I was on the 1 in the 1-3 record for QND vs. Rochester. 20 years you've built a nice program. Happy for y'all. Sure beats the scenes of ambulance's and stretchers we saw in 2004. Y'all was weak AF back then. Our frosh and soph made y'all look like soccer players that day.

I can't even begin to take you seriously with the Rochester playing up part. You're a a joke for that one.

We will be 1-3 going into week 5... but, you know, that's because we ACTUALLY play up. < 400 kids enrolled... playing a 2023 7A quater-finalist, an annual 4A powerhouse in R-B, and SHG... who you're familiar with I believe. The 4th team having over 1200 kids enrolled, easy math for you on that, that's 3 times our size in student body alone. The same cupcake you've "played up" against for 15 years. QND joining a whole conference twice to 3 times their size in enrollment is nothing, though, compared to Rochester playing one little game against an 8A Loyola...

I'll take the 2-7 bet. Name the price.

Your come back line is getting old. "Pompous douche canoe's who refuse to challenge yourselves and instead remain in 4A where the challenge will never exist" Where does it state that a school has to play up? Being salty because you private asses get taxed due to the 30 mile recruiting gift and being forced to play up so you think if a school can dominate a classification they should be taxed and forced to play up. The only school that plays up is EStL and they couldn't beat MIGHTY Mt. Carmel in 7A so their "Conference" says they can't play up 2 levels and we see what's happening in 6A with Cary Grove. Through the grapevine, Cary Grove is becoming the "Hot spot" for smash mouth football, thus getting the attention of big lineman, Alstott type running backs. I guess if they continue to win you will want the Trojans to play up to 7A? But either way a public school should have the right to play in its classification. Don't say it. Rochester doesn't need to recruit because families will naturally gravitate to Rochester and Chatham or do you think they should move into Southeast's or Lanphiers school districts???

 

[cigaros]

I never claimed QND was a powerhouse, or the material to make one. You've made that up in your head. In fact, I didn't even mention QND in this thread. YOU did. And for what? That's what I was asking. A complete stray, for what? To remind QND how much better you are? For what it's worth, in the time you listed QND made a run in 3A to the semi's. Just not as good as they once were, slim years happen my guy. You have, however, reminded me why we, QND, hate Rochester. Pompous douche canoe's who refuse to challenge yourselves and instead remain in 4A where the challenge will never exist. Then talk down to those 4A or smaller programs like you invented football... Pathetic, honestly.

I was on the 1 in the 1-3 record for QND vs. Rochester. 20 years you've built a nice program. Happy for y'all. Sure beats the scenes of ambulance's and stretchers we saw in 2004. Y'all was weak AF back then. Our frosh and soph made y'all look like soccer players that day.

I can't even begin to take you seriously with the Rochester playing up part. You're a a joke for that one.

We will be 1-3 going into week 5... but, you know, that's because we ACTUALLY play up. < 400 kids enrolled... playing a 2023 7A quater-finalist, an annual 4A powerhouse in R-B, and SHG... who you're familiar with I believe. The 4th team having over 1200 kids enrolled, easy math for you on that, that's 3 times our size in student body alone. The same cupcake you've "played up" against for 15 years. QND joining a whole conference twice to 3 times their size in enrollment is nothing, though, compared to Rochester playing one little game against an 8A Loyola...

I'll take the 2-7 bet. Name the price.

Wait stop wait.... I must have missed something in your post. Are you glamorizing the 2000 or 2004 games in order to validate some lost valor for some 38-42 year olds? The Rockets were 4 years & 8 years into their program when those glory days of the Raiders occurred. And all the Rockets have done since is go 5-2 against your lil Raiderettes. Looking at your lil Q boys, you've never made the final whereas the Rockets, in their brief existence, have been in the quarters every year since 2008, the semis 12 of the past 14 years, and won all NINE times they've reached the final. And don't give us the "wE oNlY hAvE 400 kIdS eNrOlLeD" nonsense. You have your pick. They just don't pick YOU. So, if you want to go back in time, why is it your lil buccaneers average 5.6 wins and 4.3 losses per season while the Rockets average 8.6 wins and 3.1 losses per season? Literally, a kid born the day the Rockets program began would not qualify to run for President. Whereas your lil pirates had players in the Korean War. So, let's stop with the inferiority complex you've been spewing. With 13 winning seasons out of the past 20, your program IS inferior. Even Massey agrees that you would be 1-7 against last year's 3A quarterfinalists as you squeak by Stanford-Olympia. Be careful or we'll sic that juggernut Nashville on you to pay another visit.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Wait stop wait.... I must have missed something in your post. Are you glamorizing the 2000 or 2004 games in order to validate some lost valor for some 38-42 year olds? The Rockets were 4 years & 8 years into their program when those glory days of the Raiders occurred. And all the Rockets have done since is go 5-2 against your lil Raiderettes. Looking at your lil Q boys, you've never made the final whereas the Rockets, in their brief existence, have been in the quarters every year since 2008, the semis 12 of the past 14 years, and won all NINE times they've reached the final. And don't give us the "wE oNlY hAvE 400 kIdS eNrOlLeD" nonsense. You have your pick. They just don't pick YOU. So, if you want to go back in time, why is it your lil buccaneers average 5.6 wins and 4.3 losses per season while the Rockets average 8.6 wins and 3.1 losses per season? Literally, a kid born the day the Rockets program began would not qualify to run for President. Whereas your lil pirates had players in the Korean War. So, let's stop with the inferiority complex you've been spewing. With 13 winning seasons out of the past 20, your program IS inferior. Even Massey agrees that you would be 1-7 against last year's 3A quarterfinalists as you squeak by Stanford-Olympia. Be careful or we'll sic that juggernut Nashville on you to pay another visit.

That was awesome!

 

[RoaminCatholic]

Wait stop wait.... I must have missed something in your post. Are you glamorizing the 2000 or 2004 games in order to validate some lost valor for some 38-42 year olds? The Rockets were 4 years & 8 years into their program when those glory days of the Raiders occurred. And all the Rockets have done since is go 5-2 against your lil Raiderettes. Looking at your lil Q boys, you've never made the final whereas the Rockets, in their brief existence, have been in the quarters every year since 2008, the semis 12 of the past 14 years, and won all NINE times they've reached the final. And don't give us the "wE oNlY hAvE 400 kIdS eNrOlLeD" nonsense. You have your pick. They just don't pick YOU. So, if you want to go back in time, why is it your lil buccaneers average 5.6 wins and 4.3 losses per season while the Rockets average 8.6 wins and 3.1 losses per season? Literally, a kid born the day the Rockets program began would not qualify to run for President. Whereas your lil pirates had players in the Korean War. So, let's stop with the inferiority complex you've been spewing. With 13 winning seasons out of the past 20, your program IS inferior. Even Massey agrees that you would be 1-7 against last year's 3A quarterfinalists as you squeak by Stanford-Olympia. Be careful or we'll sic that juggernut Nashville on you to pay another visit.

Sure thing, bud. All those Springfield addresses haven't been beneficial to Rochester (a town of 3,800 people) at all... You're not the same as the rest of 4A. QND's entire 30 mile radius, some 6 or 7 counties, doesn't add up to the population of the city that's helped you be successful.

 

[cigaros]

Sure thing, bud. All those Springfield addresses haven't been beneficial to Rochester (a town of 3,800 people) at all... You're not the same as the rest of 4A. QND's entire 30 mile radius, some 6 or 7 counties, doesn't add up to the population of the city that's helped you be successful.

Let's see, let's see.... Rochester school district is 64.9 square miles with a population from which to draw equaling 10,842

Pi R squared is the equation for the area of a circle. That would be 2,827 square miles. Quincy's population is 38,600. However, within the 30 mile radius you claimed, the population available is 114,986. This means your inferiority complex on turf has 10x the population from which to draw and only one major school with which to compete (Quincy HS). And yet there's SHG with 3 Springfield schools of 5A or bigger, Glenwood, and Rochester with which to compete to attract students. Oh, and your tuition is $6,385 whereas SHG is $9,650 (51% higher). Any other excuses? Or is this the moment you put it to rest and accept the fact you're fortunate the CS8 allowed you in. Mt. Zion would have been a better addition to the strength of the conference not to mention a more appropriate addition given its proximity to the Decatur schools currently members. Your program is literally lessening the strength of the CS8. Go play in the Sangamo conference where you'll add something. I hear Riverton has some games you could fill in their place.

 

[RoaminCatholic]

Let's see, let's see.... Rochester school district is 64.9 square miles with a population from which to draw equaling 10,842

Pi R squared is the equation for the area of a circle. That would be 2,827 square miles. Quincy's population is 38,600. However, within the 30 mile radius you claimed, the population available is 114,986. This means your inferiority complex on turf has 10x the population from which to draw and only one major school with which to compete (Quincy HS). And yet there's SHG with 3 Springfield schools of 5A or bigger, Glenwood, and Rochester with which to compete to attract students. Oh, and your tuition is $6,385 whereas SHG is $9,650 (51% higher). Any other excuses? Or is this the moment you put it to rest and accept the fact you're fortunate the CS8 allowed you in. Mt. Zion would have been a better addition to the strength of the conference not to mention a more appropriate addition given its proximity to the Decatur schools currently members. Your program is literally lessening the strength of the CS8. Go play in the Sangamo conference where you'll add something. I hear Riverton has some games you could fill in their place.

Luckily for everyone, you and I don't make the decisions on who plays where and when for either school in question. I didn't make the decision to join the CS8. I'm happy QND found a "home" so to speak is all. I don't think anyone, especially not me, has come in here since QND's acceptance into the CS8 and claimed they'd win the thing day 1... or ever. No one has said anything like that. In fact, I've let it be quite known that QND will take their lumps. But name another 2A school with QND's schedule? There isn't many, if any.

Let's be frank, the majority of the CS8 isn't good. And with it being closed in most recent years it only made it feel better than it truly was. If we want to talk overall strength of athletics at each school, QND is at or just below the top of the conference. But we're here for football alone, so sure, pile it on. I don't care and we don't play you. Rochester is amazing. I've said it before. I've told you I'm happy for your success. What more exactly do you need?

Mt. Zion though? And you used the word strength in there? That's funny my guy....
MTZ and QND are literal equals for what you're arguing in terms of strength of program. Location is all you got, bud. Perhaps you should have used your influence to get them in, instead of us... Idk what to tell you. They aren't a better program, not even slightly.

Since 2000...

MTZ
19 playoff appearances (16-4A, 3-5A)
Overall Record: 164 - 81
Playoff Record: 13 - 19 (Quarterfinals - 3)

QND
20 playoff appearances (17-4A, 2-3A, 1-2A)
Overall Record: 166 - 88
Playoff Record: 21 - 20 (Semifinals - 2, Quarterfinals - 5)

 

[cornerrat]

All.... Actually Mt. Zion many years ago was approached by the conference about joining. A receptive oral reply by the then coach was given. Nothing in writing.... Said Coach not because of that conversation was gone the next season and the new one wanted no part of joining. It made the local SJR and a bit of a stir. I will try to run down the article. Ratsy

 

[RoaminCatholic]

All.... Actually Mt. Zion many years ago was approached by the conference about joining. A receptive oral reply by the then coach was given. Nothing in writing.... Said Coach not because of that conversation was gone the next season and the new one wanted no part of joining. It made the local SJR and a bit of a stir. I will try to run down the article. Ratsy

I mean let's be real honest here, Cigarettos has no real leg to stand on when bashing QND for the "strength" or lack thereof he claims when he's speaking about a conference that has Southeast, Lanphier, Lincoln, and Eisenhower in it... Literally half, or more, of the CS8 is as bad or worse than QND in terms of program strength.

Edit: Add U-high, Jax, and SHS to that list as well.

 

[RoaminCatholic]

Because the stalest cigar(os) on the forums thinks QND is not up to CS8 standards....

Since 2000...

Springfield (Sacred Heart-Griffin)
23 playoff app [4A-3] [5A-14] [6A-6]
Overall Record: 261-34
Playoff Record: 65-17
State Titles-6, Runners-up-3, Semis-11, Quarters-17

Rochester
22 playoff app [3A-1] [4A-20] [5A-1]
Overall Record: 234-55
Playoff Record: 64-13
State Titles-9, Semis-13, Quarters-15

Chatham (Glenwood)
22 Playoff app [4A-1] [5A-9] [6A-12]
Overall Record: 173-84
Playoff Record: 22-22
Runners-up-1, Semis-2, Quarters-7

Decatur (MacArthur)
11 playoff app [5A-10] [6A-1]
Overall Record: 99-130
Playoff Record: 5-11
Quarters-1

Jacksonville
12 playoff app [5A-12]
Overall Record: 119-114
Playoff Record: 8-12
Semis-1, Quarters-1

Springfield
9 playoff app [5A-2] [6A-7]
Overall Record: 100-125
Playoff Record: 3-9
Quarters-1

Springfield (Lanphier)
2 playoff app [5A-1] [6A-1]
Overall Record: 60-155
Playoff Record: 0-2

Springfield (Southeast)
3 playoff app [6A-3]
Overall Record: 61-156
Playoff Record: 1-3

Decatur (Eisenhower)
3 playoff app [5A-2] [6A-1]
Overall Record: 34-178
Playoff Record: 2-3

Lincoln
1 playoff app [4A-1]
Overall Record: 56-158
Playoff Record: 0-1

Normal (University)
10 playoff app [4A-3] [5A-7]
Overall Record: 116-112
Playoff Record: 5-10
Quarters-1

Quincy (Notre Dame)
20 playoff appearances [2A-1] [3A-2] [4A-17]
Overall Record: 166 - 88
Playoff Record: 21 - 20
Semis-2, Quarters-5

QND not only brings 21 playoff wins to the conference, they also have but only one less playoff dub than Glenwood, the clear 3rd best team in the CS8 since 2000. Outside of the annual 3 losses to the top 3 in the CS8, I think QND would have done just fine most years in the CS8 since 2000. If I get bored later maybe I'll run through Calpreps projections for seasons in the CS8, i think they go back to 2001.

Lincoln, U-High, Mac, Ike, SE, SHS, Lanphier, Jax combined playoff wins is only 3 greater than QND since 2000.

I guess we just don't belong in a conference with primarily doormat programs that only exist to take beatings from Rochester, SHG, and Glenwood. Back to praying to our Lord and Savior about how "fortunate" we are to get invited to such a prestigious downstate high school conference.

 

[cigaros]

Because the stalest cigar(os) on the forums thinks QND is not up to CS8 standards....

Since 2000...

Springfield (Sacred Heart-Griffin)
23 playoff app [4A-3] [5A-14] [6A-6]
Overall Record: 261-34
Playoff Record: 65-17
State Titles-6, Runners-up-3, Semis-11, Quarters-17

Rochester
22 playoff app [3A-1] [4A-20] [5A-1]
Overall Record: 234-55
Playoff Record: 64-13
State Titles-9, Semis-13, Quarters-15

Chatham (Glenwood)
22 Playoff app [4A-1] [5A-9] [6A-12]
Overall Record: 173-84
Playoff Record: 22-22
Runners-up-1, Semis-2, Quarters-7

Decatur (MacArthur)
11 playoff app [5A-10] [6A-1]
Overall Record: 99-130
Playoff Record: 5-11
Quarters-1

Jacksonville
12 playoff app [5A-12]
Overall Record: 119-114
Playoff Record: 8-12
Semis-1, Quarters-1

Springfield
9 playoff app [5A-2] [6A-7]
Overall Record: 100-125
Playoff Record: 3-9
Quarters-1

Springfield (Lanphier)
2 playoff app [5A-1] [6A-1]
Overall Record: 60-155
Playoff Record: 0-2

Springfield (Southeast)
3 playoff app [6A-3]
Overall Record: 61-156
Playoff Record: 1-3

Decatur (Eisenhower)
3 playoff app [5A-2] [6A-1]
Overall Record: 34-178
Playoff Record: 2-3

Lincoln
1 playoff app [4A-1]
Overall Record: 56-158
Playoff Record: 0-1

Normal (University)
10 playoff app [4A-3] [5A-7]
Overall Record: 116-112
Playoff Record: 5-10
Quarters-1

Quincy (Notre Dame)
20 playoff appearances [2A-1] [3A-2] [4A-17]
Overall Record: 166 - 88
Playoff Record: 21 - 20
Semis-2, Quarters-5

QND not only brings 21 playoff wins to the conference, they also have but only one less playoff dub than Glenwood, the clear 3rd best team in the CS8 since 2000. Outside of the annual 3 losses to the top 3 in the CS8, I think QND would have done just fine most years in the CS8 since 2000. If I get bored later maybe I'll run through Calpreps projections for seasons in the CS8, i think they go back to 2001.

Lincoln, U-High, Mac, Ike, SE, SHS, Lanphier, Jax combined playoff wins is only 3 greater than QND since 2000.

I guess we just don't belong in a conference with primarily doormat programs that only exist to take beatings from Rochester, SHG, and Glenwood. Back to praying to our Lord and Savior about how "fortunate" we are to get invited to such a prestigious downstate high school conference.

Good run down of stats. You did miss Glenwood's title in 1998. But otherwise, at least you looked something up. Which brings to mind your lil bottom dwellers who were 2-6 against competition with a winning record.

Rochester- 10-0
Glenwood- 5-4
MacArthur- 3-3
SHG- 3-4
U-High- 2-3

And then we get to your domain of the almost Mendoza line level of success
Jacksonville- 1-5
Springfield- 1-5
Lincoln 0-4

As an offering of grace, you're 2-7 (25% chance), 3-6 (50% chance), 4-5 (25% chance). Should gone Sangamo. You'd be 6-3 (25%), 7-2 (50%), 8-1 (25%, but only if the Maroa or Williamsville bus breaks down and they miss the first quarter.

But you are correct... QND does not belong in either of the Central State 8 divisions.

 

[cigaros]

I mean let's be real honest here, Cigarettos has no real leg to stand on when bashing QND for the "strength" or lack thereof he claims when he's speaking about a conference that has Southeast, Lanphier, Lincoln, and Eisenhower in it... Literally half, or more, of the CS8 is as bad or worse than QND in terms of program strength.

Edit: Add U-high, Jax, and SHS to that list as well.

20 playoffs appearances in 58 seasons says what?

 

[RoaminCatholic]

Good run down of stats. You did miss Glenwood's title in 1998. But otherwise, at least you looked something up. Which brings to mind your lil bottom dwellers who were 2-6 against competition with a winning record.

Rochester- 10-0
Glenwood- 5-4
MacArthur- 3-3
SHG- 3-4
U-High- 2-3

And then we get to your domain of the almost Mendoza line level of success
Jacksonville- 1-5
Springfield- 1-5
Lincoln 0-4

As an offering of grace, you're 2-7 (25% chance), 3-6 (50% chance), 4-5 (25% chance). Should gone Sangamo. You'd be 6-3 (25%), 7-2 (50%), 8-1 (25%, but only if the Maroa or Williamsville bus breaks down and they miss the first quarter.

But you are correct... QND does not belong in either of the Central State 8 divisions.

Records and history say you're wrong. But do you, my guy. Mold this into any shape you want to fit your narrative. The numbers show QND would do far better than 2-7 since 2000 if they were members of the CS8 as it currently exists. The Mendoza line begins below Chatham in your world, I figured a smart guy like you could have figured that out. Not a single program outside of the big 3 in the CS8 have been relevant in their class... ever. Their playoff records that I provided prove that. Their overall records since 2000 prove that.

"QND does not belong in either of the Central State 8 divisions" is easily one of the most off the wall, ignorant statements I've ever read. No one belongs in any conference based on this logic. And the stalest cigar said he'd rather have MTZ... 🤣🤣🤣

Edit: Didn't miss anything on the stats bud. Glenwood's 1998 state title didn't fit into the years I used. Pretty simple to understand. 2000 came AFTER 1998. In case you were confused. Records from the IHSA prior to 2000 are tough, spotty, have some holes.

 

[Travelin Fan]

Records and history say you're wrong. But do you, my guy. Mold this into any shape you want to fit your narrative. The numbers show QND would do far better than 2-7 since 2000 if they were members of the CS8 as it currently exists. The Mendoza line begins below Chatham in your world, I figured a smart guy like you could have figured that out. Not a single program outside of the big 3 in the CS8 have been relevant in their class... ever. Their playoff records that I provided prove that. Their overall records since 2000 prove that.

"QND does not belong in either of the Central State 8 divisions" is easily one of the most off the wall, ignorant statements I've ever read. No one belongs in any conference based on this logic. And the stalest cigar said he'd rather have MTZ... 🤣🤣🤣

Edit: Didn't miss anything on the stats bud. Glenwood's 1998 state title didn't fit into the years I used. Pretty simple to understand. 2000 came AFTER 1998. In case you were confused. Records from the IHSA prior to 2000 are tough, spotty, have some holes.

I think the truth of the matter probably lies somewhere between the two arguments laid out here.

Agree completely that the top 3 in the CS8 would have recently and will continue to be too tough for QND. However, the divisions will make up for that as they won't often play both Glenwood and Rochester in their crossovers. They undoubtedly get the easier side of the conference, but I still imagine it is SHGs to lose until proven otherwise. As far as the 20 year histories go...I don't know, I wasn't here back then - but I would tend to discount such ancient history that it would account for when I was still playing ball.

Roam - The long history shows stability sure - but recently QND hasn't had a winning record in any full-scheduled season since 2019-2020. You're much more familiar with their opponents than I am. How would you, generally speaking, assess their recent strength of schedule? Admittedly knowing very little about QND other than quick checks on MaxPreps, I imagine they are a mid-tier CS8 team and would put Rochester, SHG, Chatham, U-High, and MacArthur ahead of them this year. Think it basically comes down to QND, SHS, and Jacksonville fighting for 2nd place in the West - Where I think I'd put them SHS - QND - JAX.

As far as programs entering the CS8 I tend to lean more on geographic/size than school history. Williamsville, Taylorville, and Mt. Zion make more sense from that POV.

Anyway - I'm just excited I get to watch football tonight. I'll be at Edwardsville/Chatham probably bemoaning the fact that I'm not at Maroa/Athens.

Enjoy the lights all.

 

[RoaminCatholic]

I think the truth of the matter probably lies somewhere between the two arguments laid out here.

Agree completely that the top 3 in the CS8 would have recently and will continue to be too tough for QND. However, the divisions will make up for that as they won't often play both Glenwood and Rochester in their crossovers. They undoubtedly get the easier side of the conference, but I still imagine it is SHGs to lose until proven otherwise. As far as the 20 year histories go...I don't know, I wasn't here back then - but I would tend to discount such ancient history that it would account for when I was still playing ball.

Roam - The long history shows stability sure - but recently QND hasn't had a winning record in any full-scheduled season since 2019-2020. You're much more familiar with their opponents than I am. How would you, generally speaking, assess their recent strength of schedule? Admittedly knowing very little about QND other than quick checks on MaxPreps, I imagine they are a mid-tier CS8 team and would put Rochester, SHG, Chatham, U-High, and MacArthur ahead of them this year. Think it basically comes down to QND, SHS, and Jacksonville fighting for 2nd place in the West - Where I think I'd put them SHS - QND - JAX.

As far as programs entering the CS8 I tend to lean more on geographic/size than school history. Williamsville, Taylorville, and Mt. Zion make more sense from that POV.

Anyway - I'm just excited I get to watch football tonight. I'll be at Edwardsville/Chatham probably bemoaning the fact that I'm not at Maroa/Athens.

Enjoy the lights all.

Since QND hasn't played a game in the CS8 we have zero idea. However we do have samples, sort of... QND in the MS6 in the mid 00s. QND in the big 12 during 2020. QND faired just fine against schools larger than them.

No one, most especially myself, came in here and claimed QND were world beaters, could win the league, even compete for the league, or wouldn't have any lumps to deal with making this transition.

Cigaros took it upon himself to throw out ignorant senseless commentary about how QND doesn't belong where they are. Blindly ignoring the fact that outside of SHG and Rochester the conference is as pedestrian as he claims QND is. It's really tough, when you look on paper, to even justify putting Glenwood in the same category as Rochester and SHG. Because they don't belong there if you're using playoff success as a barometer.

My point remains that the majority of the CS8 is mid to well below average in terms of program "success." Being a relative term there. I gauge success on playoff berths, depth of playoff runs, and overall records. Someone may do it differently. But, on paper, the historical data and AI proves I'm not wrong. QND will hold up just fine in the CS8. Wildly claiming they don't belong is just egocentric bullshit that cigaros feels needs aired out because he too has an obvious lack of knowledge of QND and it's program. I don't mind. We welcome all challenges, as evidenced by the decision to join this league in the 1st place. Let whatever suburban schools benefitting from the failing urban public districts of the city they're attached to live with the targets on their heads. Let them thump their chests and remind us all they're fantastic and we suck. I don't care. I'm just here defending the fact that QND belongs in the CS8 as much or more-so than the majority of the conference.

Calpreps, for what it's worth (which is little), has QND at 62-43 overall since 2003 (21 seasons) against the CS8 West division, where they'll be playing.
The breakdown of records versus each team in the CS8 West...
QND vs. Jax- 11-10
QND vs. SHS- 14-7
QND vs. Lanphier- 20-1
QND vs. SHG- 0-21
QND vs. SE- 16-5

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Since QND hasn't played a game in the CS8 we have zero idea. However we do have samples, sort of... QND in the MS6 in the mid 00s. QND in the big 12 during 2020. QND faired just fine against schools larger than them.

No one, most especially myself, came in here and claimed QND were world beaters, could win the league, even compete for the league, or wouldn't have any lumps to deal with making this transition.

Cigaros took it upon himself to throw out ignorant senseless commentary about how QND doesn't belong where they are. Blindly ignoring the fact that outside of SHG and Rochester the conference is as pedestrian as he claims QND is. It's really tough, when you look on paper, to even justify putting Glenwood in the same category as Rochester and SHG. Because they don't belong there if you're using playoff success as a barometer.

My point remains that the majority of the CS8 is mid to well below average in terms of program "success." Being a relative term there. I gauge success on playoff berths, depth of playoff runs, and overall records. Someone may do it differently. But, on paper, the historical data and AI proves I'm not wrong. QND will hold up just fine in the CS8. Wildly claiming they don't belong is just egocentric bullshit that cigaros feels needs aired out because he too has an obvious lack of knowledge of QND and it's program. I don't mind. We welcome all challenges, as evidenced by the decision to join this league in the 1st place. Let whatever suburban schools benefitting from the failing urban public districts of the city they're attached to live with the targets on their heads. Let them thump their chests and remind us all they're fantastic and we suck. I don't care. I'm just here defending the fact that QND belongs in the CS8 as much or more-so than the majority of the conference.

Calpreps, for what it's worth (which is little), has QND at 62-43 overall since 2003 (21 seasons) against the CS8 West division, where they'll be playing.
The breakdown of records versus each team in the CS8 West...
QND vs. Jax- 11-10
QND vs. SHS- 14-7
QND vs. Lanphier- 20-1
QND vs. SHG- 0-21
QND vs. SE- 16-5

Let me guess. You did stats for QND football when you were in school!

 

[cigaros]

Records and history say you're wrong. But do you, my guy. Mold this into any shape you want to fit your narrative. The numbers show QND would do far better than 2-7 since 2000 if they were members of the CS8 as it currently exists. The Mendoza line begins below Chatham in your world, I figured a smart guy like you could have figured that out. Not a single program outside of the big 3 in the CS8 have been relevant in their class... ever. Their playoff records that I provided prove that. Their overall records since 2000 prove that.

"QND does not belong in either of the Central State 8 divisions" is easily one of the most off the wall, ignorant statements I've ever read. No one belongs in any conference based on this logic. And the stalest cigar said he'd rather have MTZ... 🤣🤣🤣

Edit: Didn't miss anything on the stats bud. Glenwood's 1998 state title didn't fit into the years I used. Pretty simple to understand. 2000 came AFTER 1998. In case you were confused. Records from the IHSA prior to 2000 are tough, spotty, have some holes.

Ahhh, so you’re manipulating the data to suit your purpose. Got it.

As for the Mt Zion comment, odd that I would make that comment just a day before this attached article was posted. You don’t belong in the CS8. Mt. Zion does.

Mount Zion stars grab Illinois football scholarships amid national interest

A school just 15 minutes outside of Decatur has caught the attention of the Illinois football program, who've offered scholarships to two of their players.

newschannel20.com

 

[cornerrat]

All.... lol. Ratsy