Run Dominated Teams Winning State Titles
- Thread starter Wassup13
- Start date
It’s exactly what they did in their win against Phillips. So well coached.
And containing a speedy and unorthodox offense that has put up some points this playoff season to only 13.
Perhaps those offenses aren't as schematically extinct as one foot in mouth assistant coach claimed in 2015. Obviously run heavy isn't for everyone and times are changing, but some things will always give you an opportunity to succeed, especially in Illinois in November.
Everything is so much about specific matchups too. Montinis coach even mentioned in his comments that this was a bad matchup for them because JCs strength being their massive o line and backs and them being a more athletic defense.
On the flip side, JCs secondary was their strength this year, which is unusual for them. Montini wisely stuck to their strength most of the game and tried to pound the rock on JC and did it real effectively because they scouted well and knew attacking JCs secondary would be less effective than putting pressure on their front seven.
The 6a game was the same deal. Cary is a big physical team and used it to their advantage against a quick and athletic C-M defense.
Whether or not something works depends on your own personnel and matchups/mismatches.
On the flip side, JCs secondary was their strength this year, which is unusual for them. Montini wisely stuck to their strength most of the game and tried to pound the rock on JC and did it real effectively because they scouted well and knew attacking JCs secondary would be less effective than putting pressure on their front seven.
The 6a game was the same deal. Cary is a big physical team and used it to their advantage against a quick and athletic C-M defense.
Whether or not something works depends on your own personnel and matchups/mismatches.
Some teams run September offenses.
Some (ever fewer now) run November offenses.
Some years a mild Illinois Fall enables the strength of the September offense to shine through Championship weekend.
Except for Championship weekend, 2018 threw rough weather at everyone for much of the playoffs, impacting a lot of games and teams' rhythms.
My take on the original post is a lot of September offense teams fell victim to our weather from Halloween until the Semi-Finals.
A mild Fall may have delivered a much different Championship weekend line up.
Just my 2 cents.
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Run the ball and stop the run will usually lead to a successful season.
Yes and you control the clock and time of possession which is key.
Yes! Love the running strong teams. The way football should be played.
I’m watching the replay of CG-CM. CG went 90 yds in 11 minutes, 21 plays in the 2nd half to score. Crazy.
That has to be so frustrating and disheartening to opponents. CG had the ball for three quarters of the game.
I don’t think CG ever punted against CM. I know they lost a fumble but what a job the defense did as well this year against PR, Phillips, Naperville Central, NND and CM. NC had two late TDs against many of the backups.
That stat is what ball control is all about. You have the ball the the other teams offense does not. Simple concept but very, very, effective. Run the ball until they stop you and don't get cute with trick plays or other stuff which stops the clock. Kudos to CG coaches for utilizing the strengths of their team.
The new ,in- experienced coaches like the trick plays,pass crazie,good luck with that in November.
If you look at the consistently good 1A-2A-3A programs, pass first programs like Monticello are the minority. Why? First, you need a consistent QB with a decent arm, and a supply of decent receivers...Those aren't always available in the smaller schools. A good arm with no touch isn't very helpful, it's like every pass play is a hail mary...Of course, if you have the state champ in the 100 at WR, or a 6'8" hoops star, maybe the three steps and throw the ball as far as you can is your best play...
Second, if you do have a supply line of potentially consistent QB's, are they consistently your best athlete? Do you want a system where your best athlete is throwing the ball to lesser athletes to try and make a play? Or are you a baseball community where you can pick the big less athletic kid with a cannon as a pitcher in fourth grade and groom him to be the QB...A few years ago several of the Kankakee area QB's were stud discus throwers in junior high...
Reality is, at a small school the best way to feature your best athlete is for him to play running back and give him the ball 25 times a game...You don't have to worry about lesser athletes catching or carrying the ball the majority of the time. Your linemen can be aggressive instead of passive - farm boys know they have to push the cow before the cow pushes them...You can win a small school state title running the double wing with one great back, one gritty hardworking back who can hold onto the ball, and a bunch of dedicated blockers...
Second, if you do have a supply line of potentially consistent QB's, are they consistently your best athlete? Do you want a system where your best athlete is throwing the ball to lesser athletes to try and make a play? Or are you a baseball community where you can pick the big less athletic kid with a cannon as a pitcher in fourth grade and groom him to be the QB...A few years ago several of the Kankakee area QB's were stud discus throwers in junior high...
Reality is, at a small school the best way to feature your best athlete is for him to play running back and give him the ball 25 times a game...You don't have to worry about lesser athletes catching or carrying the ball the majority of the time. Your linemen can be aggressive instead of passive - farm boys know they have to push the cow before the cow pushes them...You can win a small school state title running the double wing with one great back, one gritty hardworking back who can hold onto the ball, and a bunch of dedicated blockers...
IMHO, a favorable offensive situation features:
- a proficient-enough passing game where the QB can hurt the defense in the air
- a 4-wide receiving corps that forces the defense to commit 5 defenders to the pass
- a QB able to operate as a second legitimate run option when the offense then outnumbers the defense 7-to-6 in the box
There are Wilmington teams that if they suddenly dumped the double wing for a pass first spread a lineman suddenly would become the best QB. The 2016 senior group (sophs on the 2014 title team) would have probably had either the right guard or left tackle play QB in a spread, as they played point forward in hoops at 220 & 250 pounds, and the RG is on a baseball scholarship as a 1B/pitcher...Streator's hoops coaches scouting them at the Plano Christmas tourney commented on how big Wilmo's soph hoops guards were in 2014, and we joked back that they were "better pulling guards than fast-breaking ones"...
It's easier to reload a running system than a passing one...Manteno was ready for another playoff year, the QB goes down week 2, suddenly the whole offensive theory has to change because they may replace him with "next man up", but the next man can't do what the original starter could...
I think if you are primarily a passing offense more players on your team have opportunities to show college scouts what they can do and therefore a greater chance on getting a college scholarship.
The teams that like to run get to show off one or two skill players and linemen but it does nothing for your WR's or DB's trying to get an opportunity at the next level. The WR's never get the ball and the DB's never get a chance to practice against the pass.
So more players get to show what they can do for the college scouts in a primarily passing offense.
The teams that like to run get to show off one or two skill players and linemen but it does nothing for your WR's or DB's trying to get an opportunity at the next level. The WR's never get the ball and the DB's never get a chance to practice against the pass.
So more players get to show what they can do for the college scouts in a primarily passing offense.
I guess that’s good in theory but how many schools other than those that recruit for football are sending multiple kids off to college? Is it offense or defense style that’s getting kids more looks? Maybe I’m in a bubble because CG has sent 3 kids to D1 schools in 15 years. They operate on a machine mentality and it’s their proven method to win but they don’t churn out college prospects. I think for them they just don’t have the size and speed colleges are looking for. I’m all over place now. I’m out.
Dont think the DB argument holds much water. Outside of a few weeks in su.mer camp, first team defenses of large class teams dont rep against their own offense. They rep against a scout team of whatever scheme they will see that week. So being on a run oriented team has little to no impact on a db's development.
Offensively I believe it to be a wash. A run heavy team has 5 OL positions and 2 to 3 rb positions it can sell to colleges. A pass heavy team will have 2-4 wr and 1 qb it can sell.
They do like to see the OLineman in passpro and with run dominated teams they don’t get to see too much of the Passpro which could be a knock if the kid is on the bubble.
Also it shouldn’t affect any of the LBers or DL in terms of film.
Pass heavy teams have no problem getting linemen recruited to college on both sides of the ball. I have seen it first hand.
Agree. Ans I've seen receivers from run heavy teams have no problems. At the end of the day I believe it's more about skill set and measurables. Unless you are a running back playing in 2001 rb offense or a qb playing for a team that legitimately never throws, you will get recruited if you run fast enough, lift enough, or show well at camps and combines. Tape and system are helpful but players are going to get recruited if they have the size and speed.
In reality, I dont think a college really cares what type of offense a high school team runs. They lookat a lineman's measurables as well as his athleticism and footwork and decides if he is good enough for their program
and also, don't forget the most important component. the coaching staff needs to understand how/when to start managing that clock.
and understand that if you are up, you do not want to give the ball back to any type of quick strike teams.
cg put on a clinic for coaching staffs on how to manage time of possession and control the clock. they simply and consistently moved the chains. they were not worried about the big play strikes, just consistently moving the chains.
Pretty good stuff here. Agree that if a player has size, speed, and athleticism, Power 5 colleges will find him if he's in a halfway good conference. If he is on a team and conference that is not that good, it will take a lot of phone calls, from coaches as well as media publicity to get the player noticed.
Also Greatgig13 was right on the money with his comments. The object is to win the game and to do that you have to play to your strengths. A running offense controls the game clock and if successful why go away from it. IMO it is a definite plus if you have a consistently accurate passer at QB who can run which makes a team dominant if that also have a very good running game.
I don't buy that getting college coaches to look at WR's, TE's, DB's, LB's in the passing game should be a primary concern of a high school football coach. Winning programs and winning teams will bring the college coaches out to see the kids on the field.
Also Greatgig13 was right on the money with his comments. The object is to win the game and to do that you have to play to your strengths. A running offense controls the game clock and if successful why go away from it. IMO it is a definite plus if you have a consistently accurate passer at QB who can run which makes a team dominant if that also have a very good running game.
I don't buy that getting college coaches to look at WR's, TE's, DB's, LB's in the passing game should be a primary concern of a high school football coach. Winning programs and winning teams will bring the college coaches out to see the kids on the field.
My question is what WR's and DB's are playing in college from JCA and Geneseo (teams that rarely pass but huge success winning state titles)??
I would suspect not anywhere close to the number of kids at Maine South or Montini who until this year was known as a primarily passing team.
And I do know JCA has a WR in the NFL.
I would suspect not anywhere close to the number of kids at Maine South or Montini who until this year was known as a primarily passing team.
And I do know JCA has a WR in the NFL.
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I would agree with WR's more than DB's. WIth the offense they run, a program like JCA just doesn't develop wide receivers. Athletes who may be wide receivers in another program end up at a different position (DB/RB) I don't think the offense a school runs would have an effect on the defensive personnel. JCA's current DB's are the strongest part of the defense and I believe two or three of them will play at the next level.
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I still consider them a powerhouse. Try playing them. One of the most physical teams you will ever play.
Maybe Montini just had better players over the last 6-7 years?
Maybe DII/DIII wasn't attractive to kids and that was the only opportunity?
Maybe they played a different sport in college?
Maybe Montini has done a better job of promoting kids to colleges?
