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Provi/SF

Talked to a zebra at my son's freshman game about this, one of the guys was on that crew. When a knee is declared, the refs tell both sides to back off. He said the SF QB took the snap and stood there for a few seconds before kneeling. While the delay did occur during the play, they consider it a dead ball foul, because otherwise, it would just help the offending team run the clock out. Theoretically, an offense could keep doing that, and it would always be 1st down, and keep running game time off the clock.
He took two steps back, paused for a second and then took a knee. It wouldn’t have changed the fact that SF without doing that could have still run out the clock. It’s an official inserting himself and influencing the outcome of a game that was otherwise already decided on the field. SIU stated it perfectly above - like pulling someone over for doing 31 in a 30.

Did you also talk to them at all about the fact they called a dropped pass the game winning TD? I’m not one to normally rag on the officiating but they were fairly awful for both sides all night.
 
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He took two steps back, paused for a second and then took a knee. It wouldn’t have changed the fact that SF without doing that could have still run out the clock. It’s an official inserting himself and influencing the outcome of a game that was otherwise already decided on the field. SIU stated it perfectly above - like pulling someone over for doing 31 in a 30.

Did you also talk to them at all about the fact they called a dropped pass the game winning TD? I’m not one to normally rag on the officiating but they were fairly awful for both sides all night.
Sounds to me like they were trying to avoid a punt. If they wanted to do that, they could have run a play. The refs will absolutely not allow a team to eat a few ticks off the clock, while telling the defense to stand down.
 
They actually did SF a favor by not calling it unsportsmanlike. Same result with a down used and a stopped clock, but only got walked off 5 instead of 15.

Sounds to me like they were trying to avoid a punt. If they wanted to do that, they could have run a play. The refs will absolutely not allow a team to eat a few ticks off the clock, while telling the defense to stand down.
So call an infraction that doesn’t exist in HS football? That’s my rub, they didn’t know that penalty doesn’t exist in HS. They should have called unsportsmanlike since it was egregious…

Anyways….it’s over now.
 
So call an infraction that doesn’t exist in HS football? That’s my rub, they didn’t know that penalty doesn’t exist in HS. They should have called unsportsmanlike since it was egregious…

Anyways….it’s over now.
Agree. It’s over now. If you’re SF you gotta stop burying yourself early in games like you have in the last two, try and win 3 out of the last 4 to get a decent seed for playoffs and learn from this game.
 
Terrible way to lose a game. It certainly appears that SF got the shaft on both the victory formation issue and the “td” pass.
May have saved Provi season with the win.
Has there ever been a game in Illinois reversed the following days after the game is over?
 
If the film was still up, you'd see that the QB took 2 steps back and kneeled, he didn't stop for a few seconds. We always tell the QB to take a step back from the line and kneel and then back pedal.

Just because the defense is told to stand down does not mean they listen. So you should expose your QB to a potential injury if someone decides to go hard?

The biggest problem with the officiating is that they didn't explain the penalty. A Delay of Game is a pre-snap dead ball foul. That means the play never happened. They did not do SF a "favor" by not calling unsportsmanlike because if they did, there would have been an understanding that it was a post play dead ball penalty.

By not explaining what happened until after "2nd Down", the SF coaches did not know that they could no longer run the clock out. If properly explained, the coaches would not have kneeled on "2nd Down" and would have run a play.
 
Maybe you haven't seen the officials talking to both sides about shutting it down for kneel downs this year. If they fire out, it's a 15 yarder. It's been clearly communicated to both lines, at every level this year, before each snap. Stop with the excuse to take two steps back. Mind you, I have no horse in the race. The extra step back was to eat more clock, not to "prevent injury." I saw the same thing called against my team a few years ago.
The lack of communication, sure, that's an issue. But don't act like it takes 4 seconds to kneel down.
 
Terrible way to lose a game. It certainly appears that SF got the shaft on both the victory formation issue and the “td” pass.
May have saved Provi season with the win.
Has there ever been a game in Illinois reversed the following days after the game is over?

My understanding is that IHSA has reversed results for certain issues like when a non rostered player participates in the match, I think this happened to Leo a few years back. They won’t reverse a result following poor officiating. Best to move forward and the remaining schedule looks favorable to St. Francis.
 
Does anyone have a link to the video of this disputed point? I can’t seem to locate it.
 
Does anyone have a link to the video of this disputed point? I can’t seem to locate it.
SF pretty much always takes all streams down within 24 hours of posting. Unfortunately will probably have to wait until the off-season. But how CoachPap above described it is how it went down
 
I just heard about this.

The cluster related to the penalty on the knee is really due to a philosophy change implemented by the IHSA.

In the past, when teams could fire out during a "victory formation" this would not have been an issue. The QB could delay as long as he wanted before taking the knee or being tackled.

But the IHSA now says that if a team announces they are taking a knee, the officials are to instruct both teams that they should not fire out.

I personally think if it is a one score game, the defense should still be able to fire out, but that's for a different discussion.

So, back to the new philosophy. The IHSA says the teams can't fire out, but they neglected to think of the scenario that occurred in this game. It is not covered whatsoever in the rules. I believe these officials just made an impromptu decision because delaying in that moment when the defense could not do anything about it just seemed wrong. I haven't seen the play so I don't know if the delay was egregious, which is what I think it would need to be to flag it.
 
It’s not even the penalty that turned this into a fiasco. It was the made up loss of down that was way out of line. Never should have happened.
 
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I just heard about this.

The cluster related to the penalty on the knee is really due to a philosophy change implemented by the IHSA.

In the past, when teams could fire out during a "victory formation" this would not have been an issue. The QB could delay as long as he wanted before taking the knee or being tackled.

But the IHSA now says that if a team announces they are taking a knee, the officials are to instruct both teams that they should not fire out.

I personally think if it is a one score game, the defense should still be able to fire out, but that's for a different discussion.

So, back to the new philosophy. The IHSA says the teams can't fire out, but they neglected to think of the scenario that occurred in this game. It is not covered whatsoever in the rules. I believe these officials just made an impromptu decision because delaying in that moment when the defense could not do anything about it just seemed wrong. I haven't seen the play so I don't know if the delay was egregious, which is what I think it would need to be to flag it.
It was maybe an extra second or two of taking an extra step back, pausing for a half second and then taking a knee.
 
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Just saw the play. Wow.

NO WAY should this have been flagged for delay of game. NO WAY. Then after the ref signals delay, they move the ball back 5 yards, and for some baffling reason they count the down. Unbelievable.

A couple other observations: a couple plays later when STF punts, the back judge is way out of position. This just makes we question the lack of basic fundamentals. Then on the hail mary, I'm not sure what the line judge is doing. He sprints down field and quickly makes the TD signal in the end zone. No where is that the mechanic of officiating that play.

Tough way to lose, but it is the nature of amateur sports.
 
Just saw the play. Wow.

NO WAY should this have been flagged for delay of game. NO WAY. Then after the ref signals delay, they move the ball back 5 yards, and for some baffling reason they count the down. Unbelievable.

A couple other observations: a couple plays later when STF punts, the back judge is way out of position. This just makes we question the lack of basic fundamentals. Then on the hail mary, I'm not sure what the line judge is doing. He sprints down field and quickly makes the TD signal in the end zone. No where is that the mechanic of officiating that play.

Tough way to lose, but it is the nature of amateur sports.
Obviously i m in a minority bog one but after looking this over quite a bit I think the refs got the calls when St. Francis had the ball exactly right.
To me there are two key things.
1) the penalty for delay of game is obviously a pre-snap penalty and never involves loss of down.
But this was a dead ball after the play penalty that I believe the ihsa has chosen to also call delay of game. It could be called unsportsmanlike conduct and if it was called that then I think the issue would be clearer.
I believe the the national rules people have given each state the right to deal with the kneel downs as each state sees fit.
Illinois has obviously decided that when the offense calls for a kneel- down play that it will involve no contact by the defense and that the qb must take the snap and immediately kneel down. Otherwise why would the qb ever take a knee at all. He could take the snap and stand there for 50 seconds with the defense not allowed to make any contact.
So the illinois decision is when the offense declared a kneel down the qb must immediately do it or it’s a post play/down counts penalty. Technically it’s unsportsmanlike conduct but what it’s been decided to be called a post play delay of game and that is why the clock stopped for the flag, the five yard penalty was assessed and it was second down.
As for the second down kneel down on that play the qb went directly to his knee and that required the defrnse to call their second timeout. It took them a bit longer to get that to sour called than the time stoppage called by the red after the first down play.
On third down there was sn actual jay with contact and then the third team out was called.
2) total confusion is the the knerldown delay of game flag is not a national rule. I believe each state association was told yo make their own decision on how to handle the kneel down and as a result some fans are frustrated because the kneel down delay of game liss of down penalty is not in the national rule book.
It is not.?but I did read online that states were told to officiate kneeldownsbin a way to assure safety and fairness and this is what the state came up with.
So I tip my cap to the refs on the field. The guy running down marker and the scoreboard would not know the illinois rule and thus helped create a down confusion through no fault of their own.
Everybody knows delay of gsme pre snap is not a loss of down penalty but this was a post play delay of game in which the down counts and the flag stops the clock.
As for refs whiffing on the TD pass that ended the game, I think the refs had as god a look at the chaos of bodies on the ends zone as the play was completed as the refs did a day later st the end of the Colorado football game. So n that college okay the refs ruled TD catch and replay overruled the call. Perhaps replay would have overruled the TD cell on Friday night but we will never know.
 
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