Theyre as up as up is in IL. The issue isnt where LWE and MS are its where smaller privates who can compete with LWE and MS are.
More info on public/private committee
- Thread starter sporthog9er
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Are we so sure East would opt-up into an open division? First, would the district administration allow such a move if West and Central stayed? Also, with East being 1-3 vs Loyola of late, is this really a slam-dunk choice for them?
Correct. Only Loyola has shown a willingness to play the biggest public schools in the playoffs.
If there was a higher class LWE would opt up. They are already playing in the highest class in the state. Let’s just get over the opt up crap talk. If you’re in the largest class already there is no higher to go. It’s not a make believe crap East is living the reality. Hats off to Loyola they know they belong in 8A. MC and ESL can play in 8A. Make no mistake LWE can play with any team in the state, I am not saying they would beat these teams but make no mistake they would give every one of these teams fits! I have said it before and it’s worth repeating ESL doesn’t need to play teams from other states. They have teams in Illinois that can give them a game and then some. MC will not get blown out and they will show up and give the Flyers all kinds of problems. MC isn’t a program that rolls over. They will show up just like LWE, LA, MS would. This game will imo be close and I give the Caravan the slight edge.
Kudos to Caravan for scheduling Flyer. If they could get the games in state, I am sure they would play them.
Coach Sunk ain't hard to find.
All this “open class” talk offends my sensibilities.
Teams are allowed to petition up to whatever classification they want already, therefore 8A is already the “open class”
Teams are allowed to petition up to whatever classification they want already, therefore 8A is already the “open class”
Unless something changed I thought a team could only petition up 1 class each year? If that isn’t the case why in the world would ESL not jump to play in 8A? Why 6A? Come on now!
Lordy, how many times must you be reminded that their conference forbids them from petitioning up higher than 6A so as not to defeat other conference members in the playoffs? Selective or unfortunate memory loss?
BTW, they are a 5A team based on public school enrollment calculations.
It’s so ridiculous of the conference.
Crusader90 you are way too sensitive.. I was making a point to the Doctor about him saying you can petition up to any class. I think it’s rediciolus that ESL can’t play in 7 or 8A. We all know they have proven they can play with the big schools.
All.... It was never made clear when all of this came out late in 2018 (on the talk boards and from ESTL fans) if this was strictly for 7A. Would like to see the actual specific written language from the conference and if fellow members of the SWC voted on it.
Does the restriction also cover 8A? There are three schools that fall into that enrollment out of their conference. If not could the Flyers make that jump as long as the IHSA bylaws allow it?
If not the Flyers have till the first week of September to once again petition up and start a new two year gig in postseason 6A. Very unlikely they would settle on pounding everyone in 5A. Ratsy
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Once upon a time, I had that language, but will not seek it out again. It states something to the effect they can petition up one class. Being that they are a 5A school, that caps them to 6A. And yes, the conference members voted and ratified this into their bylaws.
Why not simply go back to a 6 class system and create an "open" class above that? Then there's still a "big dog" class in 6A for the huge schools and a class higher for those who thing they're the biggest dog. You could even layer the 6 level cake with 2 "private" classes.
a. 1A/2A = pubs
b. 3A = small privates/1A-2A schools who petition up
c. 4A/5A = pubs
d. 6A = biggest pubsprivates
e. "Open Class"
Heck we could even do promotion/relegation style...
If you don't win a playoff game in 2 years or whatever you get bumped out of Open Class and back down to 6A. If you make a semi-final game you get bumped up into Open Class from 6A for example. Same could go for the small schools 1A-3A... Obviously not too dissimilar to the success factor but will be in place for all schools, boundaried and non-boundaried. Idk.... Seems we could go many directions. Just my thoughts....
And for the record, we'd ALL love to see ESL take on the "world" [8A]
a. 1A/2A = pubs
b. 3A = small privates/1A-2A schools who petition up
c. 4A/5A = pubs
d. 6A = biggest pubsprivates
e. "Open Class"
Heck we could even do promotion/relegation style...
If you don't win a playoff game in 2 years or whatever you get bumped out of Open Class and back down to 6A. If you make a semi-final game you get bumped up into Open Class from 6A for example. Same could go for the small schools 1A-3A... Obviously not too dissimilar to the success factor but will be in place for all schools, boundaried and non-boundaried. Idk.... Seems we could go many directions. Just my thoughts....
And for the record, we'd ALL love to see ESL take on the "world" [8A]
There is no need for an "Open Class". Everyone is allowed to petition up to the biggest class. No one does except for Loyola.
Doctor
I didn’t think a team could opt up more than 1 class? Open class is news to me. I don’t get why ESL conference wouldn’t let them opt up. Heck you would think they would be tired of losing to them year after year.
Nothing about a limit to what you can play in.
The few teams that currently do only go up one class, although that in itself is kind of a gray area since a team’s classification isn’t technically determined until the regular season is over. Teams have until a certain date (not sure but it’s before the playoffs) to petition up if they desire.
I know that there is no limit because of the stories about ESL only being limited by their conference bylaws.
The only teams that I recall petitioning up recently are Loyola, ESL and ICCP. JCA “petitioned up” to 4A a couple years ago but I think they ended up being classified 4A anyway (they were on the 3A/4A bubble)
Makes no sense.
First, how many schools do you have in the "open class?" That's clearly an impossible number to predict because it's based on school choice and not mandated by the IHSA.
What if you get 32 teams playing "open class" playoffs? What do you do with an "open class" team that goes 2-7 or 1-8 or 3-6 or 0-9?
32 teams qualify in each class in order to have a title game on Thanksgiving weekend. What if 8 teams want to play open class. Do you have an 8-team bracket that ends in early November? You are killing your Thanksgiving weekend state finals by taking the best teams having them not playing that weekend.
The other red flag is by having six actual enrollment-based classes, you are almost certainly increasing the size of the public schools that are going to fit into the Class 1A and Class 2A brackets. And the same holds true for current Class 5A and 4A schools that will fit into smaller classes based solely on having six enrollment-based divisions instead of eight.
And on the last sentence, we'd ALL love to see ESL take on the world. Well, they are ... Week 1, which many I think believe is the best that this state has to offer. ESL is in a conference, so it still has its five conference games to play whether it's in an "open" division for playoffs or not. The conference games don't go away.
I actually think that for this board's purpose, that MtC vs. ESL in Week 1 is going to be really bad. Last year, Mt. Carmel and Loyola played 1 vs. 2 in Chicago area in Week 9. But right after that game, attention was turned toward the playoff pairings. Plus, EST was not involved so they remained a viable discussion point throughout November.
This year, because the epic battle is Week 1, somebody will win and somebody will lose, and the colorful debate which has been ongoing here for the past weeks will end.
Both teams will be expected to win state titles and the winner will be challenged on this board by maybe Lincoln-Way East fans or Warren fans or Maine South fans, but that goes nowhere because none of those teams will meet either of the state's superpowers in the playoffs.
My fear is that after Week 1's battle, that bragging-rights conversation will be basically shut down. We will know who the best team is and the "best team" debate seems to be the lifeblood of this forum.
First, how many schools do you have in the "open class?" That's clearly an impossible number to predict because it's based on school choice and not mandated by the IHSA.
What if you get 32 teams playing "open class" playoffs? What do you do with an "open class" team that goes 2-7 or 1-8 or 3-6 or 0-9?
32 teams qualify in each class in order to have a title game on Thanksgiving weekend. What if 8 teams want to play open class. Do you have an 8-team bracket that ends in early November? You are killing your Thanksgiving weekend state finals by taking the best teams having them not playing that weekend.
The other red flag is by having six actual enrollment-based classes, you are almost certainly increasing the size of the public schools that are going to fit into the Class 1A and Class 2A brackets. And the same holds true for current Class 5A and 4A schools that will fit into smaller classes based solely on having six enrollment-based divisions instead of eight.
And on the last sentence, we'd ALL love to see ESL take on the world. Well, they are ... Week 1, which many I think believe is the best that this state has to offer. ESL is in a conference, so it still has its five conference games to play whether it's in an "open" division for playoffs or not. The conference games don't go away.
I actually think that for this board's purpose, that MtC vs. ESL in Week 1 is going to be really bad. Last year, Mt. Carmel and Loyola played 1 vs. 2 in Chicago area in Week 9. But right after that game, attention was turned toward the playoff pairings. Plus, EST was not involved so they remained a viable discussion point throughout November.
This year, because the epic battle is Week 1, somebody will win and somebody will lose, and the colorful debate which has been ongoing here for the past weeks will end.
Both teams will be expected to win state titles and the winner will be challenged on this board by maybe Lincoln-Way East fans or Warren fans or Maine South fans, but that goes nowhere because none of those teams will meet either of the state's superpowers in the playoffs.
My fear is that after Week 1's battle, that bragging-rights conversation will be basically shut down. We will know who the best team is and the "best team" debate seems to be the lifeblood of this forum.
Actually because this game is week one it may give pause to what team is the true #1. Everyone is assuming that MC or ESL is the #1 team if they win this game. Believe me there is a long season to play and determine who will be the true #1. This is why they play 9 games to get in the playoffs. We don’t know what ESL, MC, LA, LWE, MS or Warren will look like yet this season. I for one will not anoint anyone until I see the body of work.
I believe the point of the open class, as brought up by others, was to allow the whiners at the public schools a chance to "lEvEl ThE pLaYiNg FiElD" by "recruiting" rather than surviving on a fixed district. But suit yourselves, I much prefer it the way it is.
Chill, it's literally just some thoughts.
The open class was to give the public supporters their way... so they can "cheat" with the rest of us.
We also don't NEED 32 team brackets. This isn't March Madness... I'm also not sure I give a rats butt about football on Thanksgiving weekend. If my school plays for a title it could be on Christmas day or Halloween for all I care. If you want change, you're going to have to forget how it is and look to what it could be. If I have to give up Thanksgiving weekend football to see an 8-team "who's who" of Illinois football bracket... I'll gladly do it.
They won the 5A championship in 2017 with a classification enrollment of only 528, so I think you're right. If I remember correctly, Phillips is a rarity in CPS in that they can enroll their students from anywhere within the boundaries of the city.
That's everyone. Some just have less red tape than others.
If you’re in 8A open class does nothing. You still have the same debate on recruiting by privates. I don’t really care since LWE has no problem playing privates in the playoffs.
Disagree. If you're in 8A open class, and can actively recruit nationwide like the privates, you're on an even playing field. So no one will care who they're playing in the playoffs.
ESTL is a 5A program playing in a conference with 7A/8A programs. The conference only lets them petition up (1) class so they can all avoid them in the playoffs.
Southwestern Conference 2022 Schedules/Enrollments
I'm confident ESL only puts up with the SWC for a guaranteed 5 wins and playoff eligibility.
😁
If the 8A public school plays in a conference, and almost every one of them does, then they would likely not be allowed by conference rules to recruit beyond their district boundaries. They would need to become an "independent", and that creates undesirable scheduling issues.
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