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More info on public/private committee

Well most of the publics will not lose to LA, Mc, JCA, SR in the first three or four rounds of the playoffs if there is a split, they will just lose to LWE, MS, ESL or Rochester instead.
Exactly. So then those lesser publics will complain about the better publics having more money, facilities, getting transfers, etc.

DGN fans were all excited smoking lincoln park but booing MC as they went into the locker room at half.

So unless you're pushing for all schools to be 100% equal, this whining is just sour grapes.
 
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That's what I said!!!!! 4 teams in each region make the playoffs.Some regions have only 5 teams & a few 4.You can go 0-10,1-9,2-8 & get in.Even 3-7.The 6A state champ Oakland finished 14-1.They lost to private A school CPA 35-14.CPA finished 8-6 & was beaten 42-0 in the private A playoffs
0-10 and make the playoffs?
 
Yes, it is enjoyable to face new and different teams. It is enjoyable to play in new and different venues, to see different stadiums. It is enjoyable to see different parts of the state. The transformation of mystery into discovery is one of the great generators of enjoyment in life. It is one of the reasons people go on vacation; to see and experience new and different things.

When bracketing the NCAA college basketball tournament, the NCAA tries to avoid rematches between conference rivals for as long as possible. That is done partly for this same reason.

If it could, I suspect the DuPage Valley Conference would prefer not having to schedule conference rivals to play what would otherwise be a nonconference football game. It is generally not desirable playing a team for a second time. It would be more fun playing a new and different team. If that were not the case, then Naperville Central could just play Naperville North nine times for its regular season. Scheduling would be a lot easier in that scenario. That is taking the case to its logical extreme, but sometimes that is what it takes to make a subtle point much clearer. Variety is desirable.

The transformation of challenge into accomplishment is a second great generator of enjoyment in life. The challenge for top public teams to play top private teams, and vice versa, is another reason for not having separate playoffs. It is enjoyable to periodically challenge oneself. That is why we play games in the first place.

A third reason is that a 32-team playoff allows many teams to play two games more during the season than an 8-team playoff would allow. Players like to play. At least I know I did way back when I was in high school. I suspect that fact has not changed. I suppose the public schools could still construct a series of 32-team brackets if they reduced the number of playoff brackets from eight to seven, but the private schools could not reasonably do so. The private schools would either need to have schools as small as Ottawa Marquette playing schools as large as Loyola, or, apparently like Tennessee, they would need to allow 2-7 and 3-6 teams to qualify for the playoffs. Neither of those two circumstances seems desirable.

So, you might ask, why should the public schools care what happens to the private schools? It is simple common courtesy to show a consideration for others. In addition to reading, writing and arithmetic, perhaps our society would be better off if we also instructed our students in the precepts of morality and good manners. We seem to have taken a large step backwards in that regard over the last half century. This might be one area where our schools, by example, could teach their students a valuable lesson.

So, while avoiding a playoff that is an unnecessary repetition of the regular season is one reason to not separate the private schools from the public schools, as you can see, it is not the only reason. In summary, the playoffs are more enjoyable for all concerned when the public schools and private schools play together.
The first point I agree with 100%.

The second point is what we're missing. Do you think DVC teams should or even want to play 5A public schools in the playoffs?

3rd point I don't see what would be wrong with expanding the pool of privates. After all some good teams don't make it in due to the hard schedule, right? I like a small and large school bracket, 16 teams each. Imagine a big school semifinals of MC, LA, Naz, Rita and small school SHG, JCA, Althoff, PC. That looks like fun to me.

Disagree with you on the morality part. Last time I spoke to my gramps he was telling me about growing up in Mississippi. We're far better now (even with the few steps back the last near decade) than we've ever been. That said, I don't see anything immoral about 1 less round of playoffs.

All this just to say, if you fancy your team regularly as good as DVC teams you should probably hit that request up button to play where the DVC (and other like conferences) teams play.
 
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All.... The main point that most of you southern folk (not the transplant HHS) have made is the situation is not ideal at the very least. Making the playoffs should be a reward for having a good season. I have misgivings for a team in Illinois who wins their conference with a 4-5 record (doesn't happen often) getting into postseason play. Ratsy
 
All.... So public schools don't get random transfers? And yes I know they have to move from one district to another. Ratsy

The real solution is to make athletes sit out a certain amount of time after any post-8th grade transfer which doesn't involve a family move. Evens the playing field between public and private and eliminates lots of the "for sport only" transfers
 
The real solution is to make athletes sit out a certain amount of time after any post-8th grade transfer which doesn't involve a family move. Evens the playing field between public and private and eliminates lots of the "for sport only" transfers
Don't think that would hold up to only punish athletes for transferring.
Every transfer should have to sit out from doing any extracurricular activities then.
 
Don't think that would hold up to only punish athletes for transferring.
Every transfer should have to sit out from doing any extracurricular activities then.
Yes it would as long as it’s IHSA by law, other extracurricular activities aren’t regulated by the IHSA.
 
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Yes it would as long as it’s IHSA by law, other extracurricular activities aren’t regulated by the IHSA.
That's true.
I'm just saying a kid should be able to transfer once for whatever reason with no issues or public flogging.
To be stuck in a place because of a decision you made in 8th grade or lose a year of playing is a bit much.
 
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That's true.
I'm just saying a kid should be able to transfer once for whatever reason with no issues or public flogging.
To be stuck in a place because of a decision you made in 8th grade or lose a year of playing is a bit much.
I believe you can transfer after freshman year now with no penalty, after that you have to jump through one of the numerous loop holes that are available.
 
Kids should be able to play. Yeah I dont like recruiting but I don't like kids having to sit out even more. It's high school sports not NCAA.
Yet the kids who are out transferring are the ones who are making high school sports like the NCAA. Of all the off season transfers that go on with athletes the overwhelming majority are sports related and nothing else, I think making them sit out is a fantastic life lesson that decisions have consequences.
 
Yet the kids who are out transferring are the ones who are making high school sports like the NCAA. Of all the off season transfers that go on with athletes the overwhelming majority are sports related and nothing else, I think making them sit out is a fantastic life lesson that decisions have consequences.
But why only the athletes? Simply because it's an ihsa rule?
A kid that wants to go to a school with a better media club doesn't need to learn the same life lesson?

I get the media club isn't competing against other clubs. But no matter which way, transferring is a life lesson for someone.
Kid transfers in, someone gets benched, life sucks.
Kid transfer out, someone gets off the bench, life is good.
 
Yet the kids who are out transferring are the ones who are making high school sports like the NCAA. Of all the off season transfers that go on with athletes the overwhelming majority are sports related and nothing else, I think making them sit out is a fantastic life lesson that decisions have consequences.
Disagree. It's high school sports. You get 4 years to play and that's it. We should be making it more possible to play not less. I am all for adjusting how we classify schools but always in favor of letting them play. Schools don't own these kids.
 
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But why only the athletes? Simply because it's an ihsa rule?
A kid that wants to go to a school with a better media club doesn't need to learn the same life lesson?

I get the media club isn't competing against other clubs. But no matter which way, transferring is a life lesson for someone.
Kid transfers in, someone gets benched, life sucks.
Kid transfer out, someone gets off the bench, life is good.
Because media club doesn’t compete against other schools nor are there off season media teams helping to facilitate kids moving.
 
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Disagree. It's high school sports. You get 4 years to play and that's it. We should be making it more possible to play not less. I am all for adjusting how we classify schools but always in favor of letting them play. Schools don't own these kids.
High school sports is about teaching life lessons and helping to prepare kids to be functioning adults. Sports transfers are about ego and trying to cut the line at the expense of others. Discouraging it in the long run would benefit far more kids then allowing the problem to continue to grow.
 
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High school sports is about teaching life lessons and helping to prepare kids to be functioning adults. Sports transfers are about ego and trying to cut the line at the expense of others. Discouraging it in the long run would benefit far more kids then allowing the problem to continue to grow.
Not sure what the life lesson is you're trying to teach here. When I transferred to a different job it came with a raise, didn't even have to sit out a single day.

Not sure what line they're cutting in or at whose expense. Not sure how discouraging kids from seeking the best situation for them is beneficial.

Not sure about a lot of things. But I am sure that I'd prefer kids playing sports than not playing sports. Especially when the reason is to prove some imaginary point about....not sure. I do think we need a more equitable post season though.
 
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Because media club doesn’t compete against other schools nor are there off season media teams helping to facilitate kids moving.
Only kids that compete in sports need life lessons?

Has your school never taken in and played a transfer right away?
 
Only kids that compete in sports need life lessons?

Has your school never taken in and played a transfer right away?
I’m the 30 years I’ve followed them I can think of 3 kids and all moved in from far away and bought houses in the district. There have been another 8-10 that came out for football using addresses of relatives or fake rental properties that school investigated and expelled them since they weren’t legit transfers.
 
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Because media club doesn’t compete against other schools nor are there
Only kids that compete need life lessons?
I’m the 30 years I’ve followed them I can think of 3 kids and all moved in from far away and bought houses in the district. There have been another 8-10 that came out for football using addresses of relatives or fake rental properties that school investigated and expelled them since they weren’t legit transfers.
Kudos to them. Plenty that don't really look into things.
I just think there's some kids that benefit from transferring. Not every transfer is a difference maker going to an already loaded team.
 
Not all mind you, but many of the transfers that happen at CCL schools happen with the player going from one CCL to another CCL and most of the time the schools allow it. Again, I said many, I know not all. I know many that left MC for CPS or Suburban, in that case they just have to claim financial hardship and it’s a go.
 
I've always thought a simple solution to all this is to ACTUALLY verify residency for transfers. Not just looking at something printed on paper. If families move and transfer, that's no problem. But simply check residency by physically checking families are living at the address. Make it part of the process. If you get people that are cheating the system and not actually living there, then there's a penalty.

I'm all for kids playing. But I do agree it has gotten out of hand, and there just needs to be an extra step to verify these transfers are legit.
 
The real solution is to make athletes sit out a certain amount of time after any post-8th grade transfer which doesn't involve a family move. Evens the playing field between public and private and eliminates lots of the "for sport only" transfers
They all "move".
 
I've always thought a simple solution to all this is to ACTUALLY verify residency for transfers. Not just looking at something printed on paper. If families move and transfer, that's no problem. But simply check residency by physically checking families are living at the address. Make it part of the process. If you get people that are cheating the system and not actually living there, then there's a penalty.

I'm all for kids playing. But I do agree it has gotten out of hand, and there just needs to be an extra step to verify these transfers are legit.

Not many schools are looking to blow the whistle on their own impact transfers.
 
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Not many schools are looking to blow the whistle on their own impact transfers.
For years WWS did this and I’m 100% convinced had they not been so strict they could have won an additional state title.
 
We need an Open Class - Kumite Division. Then have six other classes. Let the Big Dogs go a week extra if enough folks opt in.
This always sounds good, until you realize that very few teams petition up currently. If most teams currently aren’t willing to voluntarily go up one class, why would they voluntarily go up to the top?
 
I am really surprised the IHSA is even talking about, usually they ignore everything they can and are worried only about revenues.
 
I am really surprised the IHSA is even talking about, usually they ignore everything they can and are worried only about revenues.

All.... This "latest" is once again a push by certain factions of publics school admins' and coaches who continue to be unhappy with private schools that have a lot of success. Separation is what they want.

The Ihsa has to listen when membership is unhappy and follows their guidelines in dealing with issues. They know if separation occurs it will cost them money. Epic games between private and public schools in postseason play go away will result in less overall attendance.

And just a guess even if the privates through the Ihsa have their own postseason I believe overall revenue including both the private and publics in the playoffs will be less.

If it happens "Sir Ramblin" I still feel has the answer. Give me the NIPL! It won't be easy especially for the southern located teams. Lots of travel. And will the Ihsa be really punitive and say if you pull the football all sports have to go. Difficult decisions all around. Ratsy
 
If they could split the bracket into 16 privates on 1 side and 16 publics on the other, if there's even that many privates in each class.
But least that way guarantees a public in the championship and in a one game setting anything can happen.

It'd be the championship for each in the semi, which would be still an accomplishment for some to win, then the overall champion per usual on Thanksgiving.
Like last years 7a.

Cause without playing the final game wouldn't it always be hanging over the public champ they won the lesser bracket if the reason for doing this is the privates are better?

Plus, it sounds so boring. Same teams playing, same road games.
MC playing at Rita or Rice is quality but MC going to Batavia be a whole other level.
 
Out of curiosity I just did a deep dive into Tennessee high school football. Wow! They had no choice but to separate the privates from the publics because there is a HUGE disparity between the two in terms of quality of play.

This is the first time I have done some research into Tennessee high school football so there may be some small errors in what I am about to write, but I think the overall assessment will be fair.

First of all, they use the district format rather than having conferences. There are multiple districts in each division, but the number varies. There are six public-school divisions with 6A representing the largest schools. There are three private-school divisions with II-AAA representing the highest. I don't know if highest means the largest schools or the best teams. If it is the best teams, then I suppose they might use a system of promotion and relegation with Division II-AA after each season is completed.

According to the 2022 Massey ratings, seven of the top ten teams in Tennessee were private schools. However, because the disparity between the two types of schools is so large, and because there are so few games played between the two types of schools, I don't think the Massey ratings capture the full disparity between the private schools and the public schools. I will provide a couple of examples.

The two types of schools do not (of course) play each other in the playoffs. But they also seem to largely stay away from each other during the regular season. I found two exceptions where top public schools found the temerity to play private schools. They got spanked in both cases. Here are the two cases.

Oakland High School was the top-ranked public high school in the state of Tennessee. It finished the regular season with a 9-1 record and easily won the 6A state championship. 6A is the top public school division in the state. Its only loss during the year was when it played Christ Presbyterian. Christ Presbyterian had a 5-5 regular season record and played in Division II-AA, which is not the top division for the private schools. It is the middle division of the three private-school divisions. Christ Presbyterian beat Oakland 35 to 14.

Cane Ridge High School is another top 6A public school in Tennessee. It finished the regular season with a 9-1 record and advanced to the 6A quarterfinals. Its only regular season loss came when it played Father Ryan High School. Father Ryan does play in the highest private-school division, Division II-AAA. However, Father Ryan finished the regular season with a 2-8 record and finished last in the six-team district in which it played. It lost all five district games. Father Ryan beat Cane Ridge 48 to 28.

With regard to football-playing ability, the disparity between privates and publics is so large in Tennessee that it is not (in my opinion) fair to compare Tennessee with Illinois when it comes to whether or not the two types of schools should compete in the same playoff brackets.

In conclusion I will mention there are only 12 schools in Tennessee's highest private-school division. They compete in two 6-team districts. All 12 teams, regardless of record, qualify for the Division II-AAA playoffs. So, yes, Father Ryan with its 2-8 record did play a first-round game in the playoffs. It was the last game of its season. After beating each other up during the regular season, the private schools do it once again in the playoffs.
 
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If they could split the bracket into 16 privates on 1 side and 16 publics on the other, if there's even that many privates in each class.
But least that way guarantees a public in the championship and in a one game setting anything can happen.

It'd be the championship for each in the semi, which would be still an accomplishment for some to win, then the overall champion per usual on Thanksgiving.
Like last years 7a.

Cause without playing the final game wouldn't it always be hanging over the public champ they won the lesser bracket if the reason for doing this is the privates are better?

Plus, it sounds so boring. Same teams playing, same road games.
MC playing at Rita or Rice is quality but MC going to Batavia be a whole other level.
Will never work - Supreme Court struck down affirmative action.
 
When Jodan Lynch says "I was looking for the area's top talent" and Loyola is pulling athletes from 25+ zip codes is enough to tell me that they aren't on the same playing field. Anyone that says otherwise is fooling themselves. Have separate playoffs like Texas.
Bitterness. Laziness. Be better at football or go to 8-man if you can't hang. And thank the Lord this ain't Texas.
 
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All.... So public schools don't get random transfers? And yes I know they have to move from one district to another. Ratsy
Smells like whiny suburban-ites in here, doesn't it? As if the outrageous amount they pay in taxes to have the best schools isn't enough... they also want to win football games. 😭
 
Its going to be quite difficult 10-15 years down the road when only MC, LA, BR, Marist, SP, and ND are left...
 
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