Mediocre MC vs best GW team ever
- Thread starter JCHILLTOPPERS
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Who do you think wins this game?
I still believe MC is better than what
they are many think. MC fans pulling a
Bones sandbagging trick. Lol
The Caravan always finds a way to ramp it up during playoff season. Lenti will get them ready. They were in the same position last year and almost missed the playoffs. They then made it all the way to the semis losing to eventual champs Providence. Don't count them out just yet.
No one said they are writing off MC, and I don't see GW fans dissing them. I think both teams respect each other and will battle it out.
corey - GW has to be favored, esp at home. I think MC is better now than they were a few weeks ago...I don't think MC is sandbagging, however.
MC beat 5-4 Marist 21 - 14
MC beat 3-6 Providence 13- 0
MC lost to Rice 31- 14
MC lost to LA 49 - 21 just two weeks ago.
Here are three keys for the game, though i'm not sure this stir-the-pot-thread is the right place.
- I think GW's home field thick grass advantage is a little less impactful against MC as MC is more a power than speed team.
-Can MC bottle up Brod like they did Justin Jackson a few years back (i dont think so - while i think Jackson was a better RB than Brod, i do not think this MC defense compares - even close - to that one)
- and perhaps most importantly, will MC turn the ball over...if so, not sure they have the offense to stick around.
I think GBN was a little more hype than substance.
It's difficult to compare GW teams year to year. Plus, Illinois HS football varies year to year. This team plays very well as a team, and that helps a lot. They have really gelled and matured in the last year. Over the years, I could not pick out the best team, nor would I want to as it is not fair to the kids on earlier very solid teams.
i don't know. that title was thrown around a bit preseason. There have been some pretty damn good GW teams. I'll let the GW fans weigh in as to whether they still think that though. I think you can for sure say "one of" but think that's about as far as i am qualified in saying.
jd - this is exactly why i hate the play up rule...what does last year mean?
I don't have any specific insight on this game. Just some general thoughts:
I'm not surprised MC beat GBN, although I picked GBN in the Edgy Challenge. I am surprised they won as convincingly as they did. When I saw MC against Provi, BR and Loyola, their O-line was not anywhere up to their usual standard. In order to run their offense, the O-line has to be very good. They must have played very well on the O-line to beat GBN, who is good defensively, as convincingly as they did.
Before the playoffs started, I would not have given MC much of a chance against GBW, let alone at Duchon. Duchon is a great home field advantage for GBW, but MC will not be the wowed by the surroundings. Agree with JCH that MC's offense should translate to the slower track that Duchon presents. I also agree that avoiding turnovers will be huge for MC to stay in this game. GBW has a fast, physical defense. If they can force turnovers, MC is in deep trouble.
MC's defense is very good, but Loyola's diverse offense gave them fits. GBW has a lot more than just Brodner. I think this is where GBW is superior to some of their previous teams. Who knows what the condition of the field will be. If it's a sloppy, muddy track, you have to expect a low scoring defensive battle. I'm not sure that provides an advantage to either team, though.
I would still rate GBW as a strong favorite, but this is a great matchup. I'm not big on year-to-year history, but Lenti's record in the postseason is pretty amazing. Hetlet's record is not too shabby either. All those things make this a very intriguing game.
I'm not surprised MC beat GBN, although I picked GBN in the Edgy Challenge. I am surprised they won as convincingly as they did. When I saw MC against Provi, BR and Loyola, their O-line was not anywhere up to their usual standard. In order to run their offense, the O-line has to be very good. They must have played very well on the O-line to beat GBN, who is good defensively, as convincingly as they did.
Before the playoffs started, I would not have given MC much of a chance against GBW, let alone at Duchon. Duchon is a great home field advantage for GBW, but MC will not be the wowed by the surroundings. Agree with JCH that MC's offense should translate to the slower track that Duchon presents. I also agree that avoiding turnovers will be huge for MC to stay in this game. GBW has a fast, physical defense. If they can force turnovers, MC is in deep trouble.
MC's defense is very good, but Loyola's diverse offense gave them fits. GBW has a lot more than just Brodner. I think this is where GBW is superior to some of their previous teams. Who knows what the condition of the field will be. If it's a sloppy, muddy track, you have to expect a low scoring defensive battle. I'm not sure that provides an advantage to either team, though.
I would still rate GBW as a strong favorite, but this is a great matchup. I'm not big on year-to-year history, but Lenti's record in the postseason is pretty amazing. Hetlet's record is not too shabby either. All those things make this a very intriguing game.
Didn't see anything mediocre yesterday about MC....and that wasn't little sisters of the poor they beat up either
Best GW ever?? Maybe the best GW offense ever, but I think the '09 and '12 teams were better overall ..The difference being that this team can be run on. Hinsdale C. ran for 275 against GW this year and they were supposed to be a passing team. Not good when facing MC. I expect the Caravan to run for 300+ and four TD's. But, that might no be enough as West cans score in so many ways both on the ground and thru the air. I just hope we have a good surface to play on. GW lost in the semis the last two years at home by a combined 14 points. GW also had a combined thirteen fumbles in those two losses. One played on wet mud, one on frozen dirt. Home field advantage?
Did a newbie dad express that this was GWs best team ever in his first post here? Yes. Did anyone else second the claim? Pretty sure the answer in no. Each year has it's team character, and you don't always see that character until you get deep in the playoffs.
GW has had more talented teams that did have specific holes that got exposed in the playoffs. I missed seeing the '08/09 teams but the 2010 team was pretty good but ran into the O'Toole buzz saw. The 2011 team may have been the best but they lacked a QB (at least a starting QB) to deliver in the clutch. 12 had a great combination of skill guys and gritty defense which may mean they would be the best team. 13 team geeked out just a bit when the pressure ratcheted up. 14 team was the perfect combo of skills and IMO were one call away from at least playing for state vs Homer Flosswood. (Watch the film and tell me a backside dump to Brodner isn't a victory)
This team is a very complete team but does have a smaller, younger Oline. Don't get me wrong, they have some mashers but they also have struggled at times with crashing blitzes. The better teams that focus on stopping Brodner have had success in minimizing his yards. But the other skill guys are outstanding. QB is very cool and is very accurate. Very strong receivers have taken over games when needed.
While HC and HS had some success running the ball, GW seems to have found the right combination of healthy guys to plug the previous holes. It will be very interesting to see whether MC can generate points on the ground. Between the 20's play is nice, but redzone will be key. Moline is no MC but they came in with big dudes determined to run the ball and had one first down by the time Brodner had set 3 7A records. Less than 30 yards of offense when the reserves took over.
GWs strongest play tends to occur in the 3rd quarter as Hetlett adjusts as well as anyone in the state. GW gave up one meaningful 2nd half TD (vs HC) but no others. I would not be surprised to see MC sustain a long opening drive TD, everyone has. Then there will be the adjustments made on drives 2-10.
The biggest difference between this GW team and the others is the play calling. While Coach Sigs, now at EGV had his moments, the creativity (when Hetlett gives the OC leash) has been amazing. All the skill guys get involved and there is a distinct lack of predictability. This OC uses the whole field and you can't really look at the history of GW (seeming like they have four plays) as a read on this year.
This will be a very good game. The field will be in great shape with only one day of partial rain this week. I do think GW prides itself on being good hosts so hope those of you not attending the Riley Roustabout stop by. The atmosphere will be conducive to the historical context. Now we get to see these boys lay it out there and see what kind of team we have.
GW has had more talented teams that did have specific holes that got exposed in the playoffs. I missed seeing the '08/09 teams but the 2010 team was pretty good but ran into the O'Toole buzz saw. The 2011 team may have been the best but they lacked a QB (at least a starting QB) to deliver in the clutch. 12 had a great combination of skill guys and gritty defense which may mean they would be the best team. 13 team geeked out just a bit when the pressure ratcheted up. 14 team was the perfect combo of skills and IMO were one call away from at least playing for state vs Homer Flosswood. (Watch the film and tell me a backside dump to Brodner isn't a victory)
This team is a very complete team but does have a smaller, younger Oline. Don't get me wrong, they have some mashers but they also have struggled at times with crashing blitzes. The better teams that focus on stopping Brodner have had success in minimizing his yards. But the other skill guys are outstanding. QB is very cool and is very accurate. Very strong receivers have taken over games when needed.
While HC and HS had some success running the ball, GW seems to have found the right combination of healthy guys to plug the previous holes. It will be very interesting to see whether MC can generate points on the ground. Between the 20's play is nice, but redzone will be key. Moline is no MC but they came in with big dudes determined to run the ball and had one first down by the time Brodner had set 3 7A records. Less than 30 yards of offense when the reserves took over.
GWs strongest play tends to occur in the 3rd quarter as Hetlett adjusts as well as anyone in the state. GW gave up one meaningful 2nd half TD (vs HC) but no others. I would not be surprised to see MC sustain a long opening drive TD, everyone has. Then there will be the adjustments made on drives 2-10.
The biggest difference between this GW team and the others is the play calling. While Coach Sigs, now at EGV had his moments, the creativity (when Hetlett gives the OC leash) has been amazing. All the skill guys get involved and there is a distinct lack of predictability. This OC uses the whole field and you can't really look at the history of GW (seeming like they have four plays) as a read on this year.
This will be a very good game. The field will be in great shape with only one day of partial rain this week. I do think GW prides itself on being good hosts so hope those of you not attending the Riley Roustabout stop by. The atmosphere will be conducive to the historical context. Now we get to see these boys lay it out there and see what kind of team we have.
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Best GW team ever? I haven't been around GE that long, but this is not the best GW team in the last 8 years. Not in its current configuration. The 2012 team was better. However, this team jumps to the top with a Hayden Carlsen like guy on defense. That guy on this team happens to be the best running back in the state, and we won't see him on defense until he's needed. When you see Brodner roaming around in the GW secondary, then this will be the best team in 8 years. Imho.
Gagliano is a 1st team all-state LB if you focus on play, not recruiting, but you are 100% correct. Brodner patrolling centerfield would be an enormous game changer.
The fact posters even compare this years team to great GW teams of the past says a lot about them and the program they run. GBW will be a handful. That said MC will bring its A game for sure.
This should be a great game!
This should be a great game!
GBW greatest team ever?!? Mediocre MC? We'll see on Saturday, really looking forward to this game and hoping the Hitters are ready to stop MC's option running game. The Panthers had no answers this year just like the 2012 State Final. The score then was 28-14 but was somewhat generous, GBN never had a chance as they are run dominated team and really have no passing game, same teams, same story, same result.
GBW has a better passing game but everyone in Glen Ellyn needs to be aware MC is tough and well coached, maybe not all the D1 talent they have had on some teams in the past but will come to play and they expect to win. It may take the greatest GBW team ever to win this Saturday, expect winner of this game to play for the state title.
GBW has a better passing game but everyone in Glen Ellyn needs to be aware MC is tough and well coached, maybe not all the D1 talent they have had on some teams in the past but will come to play and they expect to win. It may take the greatest GBW team ever to win this Saturday, expect winner of this game to play for the state title.
I think a lot of people are high on MC because the way they beat beat GBN but even though they had good record the Panthers weren't that good of a team. I really think MC is walking into a beating on Saturday, GBW has the better team and has had this game circled for about 4 years. I like the hitters 33-13 in this one, I guess will we see if I'm right or wrong in a few days.
I thought GBN would win a couple playoff games, definitely not a contender but your comment that they were not that good of a team does not give me much faith in your prediction. I'm expecting more of a back and forth game like GBW had against Barrington last year, 28-21, hopefully GBW but not surprised if MC is on top either. I'll be there rooting on the Hitters since I would like to see MC go home (plus my wife went to GBW also).
Both of those games were played in 20 degree temps with mid to high winds, so not sure which game was "muddy." Saturday will be 50 and sunny, so pretty sure no extreme conditions will be in play. And as for prior years, see above for comments regarding new OC.
Your main point is that Duchon may not be a real home field advantage and on face, you would be correct. Under Hetlett, GW is 11-5 in playoff games on Duchon and 11-1 on fields other then Duchon (which doesn't include 1-1 in Champaign). Only two away losses were against O'Toole.
As for this year, you are probably even more correct. Scores (including only 1st team competitive parts) of GW games are as follows:
At Duchon - 182-55
Away from Duchon - 192 -16
Sure we played Bolingbrook, HS and HC at Duchon, but we pitched shutouts at LT and DGN (an option team that put 24 first half points on Lville but had less than 40 yards of offense before Brodner's 5th TD & running clock) gave up 2 to Moline (punter stepped on end line, but held their power option to 15 yards in first 3 quarters) & 7 at OPRF and AT.
Bottom line is that GW is a speed team that plays very well on turf. On Duchon, GW gets lots of breaks where teams have often gained an early advantage (HS, HC, Barr) only to succumb after Hetlett makes his adjustments at half.
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Quick legitimate question before I watch the film...how good is MC's line? To my eyes, HC was the best oline I have seen in the last 4 years at West. I'm fairly certain WS had an amazing line in 2010 but a little foggy.
Is MC line as good or better than HC line with a healthy Matt Allen?
I'm not real sure to be honest the quality of the MC line, it's solid but to me more important is the scheme. They way they run the option so well you need to have a good line but you don't need to blow people off the line like a more traditional running game. The skill positions work the option so well they can find a gap and be in the clear before you know what happened. They don't have D1 talent but it's a well coached disciplined team. Coach Frank Lenti has coached 33 years for MC with 16 appearances in the State Finals. State Titles won--ELEVEN. I've personally watched 2 GBN teams get abused by this team (including the 2012 team with Justin Jackson who was one Stevenson punt return away from being the all time leading rusher in IL HS history!), maybe I'm a little beat up but don't underestimate the Caravan!
Thanks. Trust me, no one in the state of Illinois underestimates MC. (oops, I picked Glenbard North in my brackets so maybe I did for all to see) When we talk about the game, it is with the utmost respect that Lenti is in a different league than every other coach in IL. And no question, scheme is as important as size. GW has consistently turned 165 lb linemen into effective seal blockers. It is all about the first step.
My bigger question, and maybe one for a different thread is whether Lenti actually cares about being 14-0 in any given season. It almost appears that he uses only a couple of clubs in his bag to start the season, then uses losses as learning experiences while he adds another club each week. By the time he gets to post-season, he has his bag full, his team motivated and all the "pressure" is off. Kinda like a thoroughbred saving something in the tank for the stretch run. MC has won 5 titles since their last undefeated team in the 90's. I am not questioning GW for trying to go 9-0 each year but I just wonder if Lenti is even interested in going 9-0.
100 percent agree with all.
You factor in mc turnovers, the score seems about right.
Mc's best asset is lenti. Kids better listen to coaches.
OK so just for a start, I have no idea what defensive scheme GN is running against MC. They have LBs at the line engaging with guards at the snap. GW stacks LBs behind large dudes to ensure they can read and react. I have not seen the entire game film yet, just edgy's highlight reel and in the long runs I see 8 guys engaged at the line and no one in center field. Huge alignment issues. I was/am a huge fan of GNorth, but you will not see anything like that defensive scheme at Duchon. Gagliano tends to stay 5-7 yards off in the middle and use his speed to blow throw seams. On the outside, Ross Andreasik is having an all-state season as well with 8-9 interceptions, 5-6 fumble recoveries and a ton of TFLs. Ross is another that appears to be playing soft, until he isn't. MC oline looks good, but still short of HCs IMO.
I won't predict any final scores based on one two and a half minute video, but I will make one prediction: MC will not run for 300 yards against GW as mentioned earlier. If they do, I will start a thread titled, I am a complete idiot and know nothing about football. Cool?
Lenti's interest in going 9-0 is only one tiny notch above "don't give a crap." I'll add that he does not particularly like seeing MC's frosh and soph teams going undefeated; he prefers "lessons learned" prior to varsity.
That makes total sense...accept your imperfections and always work to strengthen your weaknesses
This is the 4th or 5th time Montini has gone 9-0. -0- state titles in those years, so 9-0 means little in Lombard. Let's hope they can buck the trend this year.
So let's hope this game gets decided on the field by the teams without a bunch of penalties and turnovers.
West will need to contain the MC QB to have success. I don't see MC having the same success on the ground as HC for one key reason, GW is focusing on the MC ground game. I think GW was expecting HC to throw the ball 45 times not run the ball 45 times. By the time GW adjusted, HC had 200 yards and a 17-7 lead. If MC has significant success it will be over the top like Barrington or a ton of quick slants or screens. I have only watched Rita, BR and LA but I have yet to see much of that but it may be one of those clubs Lenti puts in this week.
Watching the MC D, I see a lot of disciplined gap control. LBs in the middle look big and strong but not as impressed with the edge guys. I think GW will find some spaces to work in. Brodner will have a few runs where you might scratch your head then make one cut and you get it. Pretty sure he hasn't had less than two TDs in any game this year.
No one can predict turnovers and penalties so no real prediction here. Maybe a game day prediction.
West will need to contain the MC QB to have success. I don't see MC having the same success on the ground as HC for one key reason, GW is focusing on the MC ground game. I think GW was expecting HC to throw the ball 45 times not run the ball 45 times. By the time GW adjusted, HC had 200 yards and a 17-7 lead. If MC has significant success it will be over the top like Barrington or a ton of quick slants or screens. I have only watched Rita, BR and LA but I have yet to see much of that but it may be one of those clubs Lenti puts in this week.
Watching the MC D, I see a lot of disciplined gap control. LBs in the middle look big and strong but not as impressed with the edge guys. I think GW will find some spaces to work in. Brodner will have a few runs where you might scratch your head then make one cut and you get it. Pretty sure he hasn't had less than two TDs in any game this year.
No one can predict turnovers and penalties so no real prediction here. Maybe a game day prediction.
On paper, 2 evenly matched teams. I think MC will do their fair share of scoring, but I expect (hope) to see some wrinkles added to GW defense for this critical game. GW offense will also score, and likely score often, especially in the second half. Wouldn't be surprised to see a 35-28 game.
Loyola beat MC 49-21 in Week 9, 3 passing TD's, 1 rushing TD and 2 kickoff returns. The run game will be strength versus strength and that's probably for both teams. It's going to be a long week thinking about this game and it's only Monday!!
Speaking of Loyola, could this finally be the year of the Rambler? I think so but that's another post, sorry!
Speaking of Loyola, could this finally be the year of the Rambler? I think so but that's another post, sorry!
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