Then there is no doubt they will roll
Whoever it is. Great team. Congrats on the win. Amazing offense.
Joliet Catholic vs Brother Rice.
- Thread starter Kevin JCHS 81
- Start date
Whoever it is. Great team. Congrats on the win. Amazing offense.
I know but it would be better if they were 6A. I think everyone would agree they don’t belong in 4A.
JCA is a lock in 4A. BR isn’t by any means unless they find a defense. This is going to be interesting in the playoffs.
ESL
I believe 2019 played non-conference game against 8A NV and gave up 48 points and still won the game. ESL went on to win 2019 5A state championship. Flyer fans feel free to correct me if I have the wrong year.
Micah
I get where your going with your statement and your correct it doesn’t happen often. I believe Warren is a team that would not allow that kind of scoring in the regular season or the playoffs. The big question mark is can Warren score against some of the top teams in the state? That question will only be answered when the playoffs start and Warren plays teams of relevance.
I think his point is somewhat relevant though. I think it’s rare that a team that can’t stop the good offenses won’t succeed in the playoffs. Rice will need to stop teams if they want to win 7A.
I get their offense is high powered but they will face better defenses in the playoffs potentially.
I believe the "No Defense" echoes are not factoring in how powerful these two 2021 Offenses are.
These were two of the top and distinctly unique offenses in the state this year competing.
Jack Lausch gets my POY vote as his arm is on par with NC's Thorn from a few years ago, his legs are Aaron Bailey level, his game knowledge and poise is beyond the High School level.
IMO, just my opinion, very few Defenses would match up well against either of these uniquely different Offenses: One fine tuned new age RPO that is difficult to defend and one that is old school and teams spend very little time throughout the year practicing to defend.
Who's Defensive Front 7 out there match up favorably against this year's Joliet Catholic Offensive Line?
Do the Loyola or Mount Carmel Defenses, which both yielded 43 points to the Brother Rice Offense, deserve to be categorized as teams having "No Defense"?
By the criteria of many on this board, perhaps they do.
Maybe Warren, or Lockport who has given up just 20 points this season, has what it takes but containing either would in my opinion be a tall order.
After seeing a 1-4 Sandburg that had scored just 20 points in their first 5 games put up 30 against LWE with over 300 yards & 3 TDs passing I am hard pressed to believe that this year's Griffin squad would be up to the task.
As much as LWE has the potential to be great next year, we are in 2021 until then.
I would be interested to hear WHICH 7A playoff squads are going to shut down the Rice offense and HOW?
At the end of the a grueling game the players were exhausted and it was heartening to see their genuine respect and compassion for one another as they embraced their opponents as the clock wound down --- kind of what it is all about anyway.
The best $5 I have spent in a while.
These were two of the top and distinctly unique offenses in the state this year competing.
Jack Lausch gets my POY vote as his arm is on par with NC's Thorn from a few years ago, his legs are Aaron Bailey level, his game knowledge and poise is beyond the High School level.
IMO, just my opinion, very few Defenses would match up well against either of these uniquely different Offenses: One fine tuned new age RPO that is difficult to defend and one that is old school and teams spend very little time throughout the year practicing to defend.
Who's Defensive Front 7 out there match up favorably against this year's Joliet Catholic Offensive Line?
Do the Loyola or Mount Carmel Defenses, which both yielded 43 points to the Brother Rice Offense, deserve to be categorized as teams having "No Defense"?
By the criteria of many on this board, perhaps they do.
Maybe Warren, or Lockport who has given up just 20 points this season, has what it takes but containing either would in my opinion be a tall order.
After seeing a 1-4 Sandburg that had scored just 20 points in their first 5 games put up 30 against LWE with over 300 yards & 3 TDs passing I am hard pressed to believe that this year's Griffin squad would be up to the task.
As much as LWE has the potential to be great next year, we are in 2021 until then.
I would be interested to hear WHICH 7A playoff squads are going to shut down the Rice offense and HOW?
At the end of the a grueling game the players were exhausted and it was heartening to see their genuine respect and compassion for one another as they embraced their opponents as the clock wound down --- kind of what it is all about anyway.
The best $5 I have spent in a while.
Last edited:
If your into high scoring offense this was the best $5 you could spend. If you want to see defense this wasn’t the game.
Your correct about LA, MC, BR, LWE and JCA who all seem suspect on defense. Warren in my book has the best defense until someone proves differently. Jury is still out on LockPort as they have not played the caliber opponents of the above mentioned. Bolingbrook was their first real test and yes the held BB to 13 points but at the same time they almost lost the game scoring only 14. This young East team will be the toughest test for Lockport and I believe they will need more than 14 points to win the game.
East has lost 2 games this year by 3 points.
I will admit the Sandburg game was shocking! I will chalk that game up to being young and inexperienced. East is grinding their way back as the season goes along. Lockport game is going to be a key for this young Griffin team heading into the playoffs.
So I guess a 4A school can compete against a 7A school. Interesting. All I've been reading here is how lower classes shouldn't compete against the big boys. ( see Rochester / Loyola ) . What do you know.
233-0 as Staunton defeated Gillespie. That’s like 100 years ago though
Lol
So it’s like the old Boise State argument. Let’s see them play an 7A or 8A schedule each week then we can talk. IMO yes great teams in lower classes can rise up for 1 game and play their super bowl, but every week every year no I don’t see it. I have said this same thing with college teams. D-1 schools should never play the best teams in a lower division as they are asking for trouble. Example: Years past: Boise State-Oregon, Michigan-Appalachian State. I witnessed NAIA Sioux Falls South Dakota beat D-1 North Dakota State at their home by a 26-7? Margin! North Dakota went on to win their conference. Point being a great small school can rise up and beat a big school but the odds are not good and the small school doesn’t play the same schedule or caliber teams weekly.
We can agree to disagree but I will add I love rooting for the underdogs so I am not slamming any school or any team just giving my opinion. Carry on.
They are not a 4A school! They are a great team but that is an all star team team of the Joliet area. To put them against small town 4A teams is a shame.
When Maldonado had his day vs BR many fans and posters here felt that it was because Pierce and Frazier were missing and it would be fixed upon returned. MC scored 36 with many yards up the middle then JCAnderson happened last night. I think BR fans are frustrated because the defense was supposed to be performing much better with the players they have. Remember these 3 things
1. New defensive Coordinator this year for BR. The past DC is the head coach at Oak Forest.
2. Graduation of Jones and Whalen from the Spring team and Jefferson from the last time they played in the Fall. Those were special, I don’t see anyone stepping up in their place.
3. The way these kids sell themselves on social media and we pump them up on this board, myself included, we forget these are teenagers, they have many weaknesses despite their size and abilities. As fans we build them up to be NFL All Pros. They are just kids still learning the game.
1. New defensive Coordinator this year for BR. The past DC is the head coach at Oak Forest.
2. Graduation of Jones and Whalen from the Spring team and Jefferson from the last time they played in the Fall. Those were special, I don’t see anyone stepping up in their place.
3. The way these kids sell themselves on social media and we pump them up on this board, myself included, we forget these are teenagers, they have many weaknesses despite their size and abilities. As fans we build them up to be NFL All Pros. They are just kids still learning the game.
Last edited:
Well, that really is sort of not true...for a long long time, as a similar sized school, relative to others, JCA/JC played in the second highest class (5a out of 6) and did just find, racking up lots of titles and a few 2nd places.
To your overall point, i think you have to caveat things and speak with a little nuance, how many 7a maybe 8a schools have the roster size JCA does this season? not many. That won't be true next year, but it is this year...and there have been plenty of team in JCA's shoes in years' past.
If you want to get real generic, if you had to just say so...yeah, a larger class team should beat a smaller class team..but what good is a statement like that?
I don’t think the Rochester players will be requiring any sympathy. If anything, they probably see JC just like they saw Rita a few years ago. They probably don’t get all the hype and want to put them in their place. And they are most likely more than capable of doing just that.
Hey JCHill
I am not going to argue about this years team although their are plenty of 7-8A teams with as many players as JCA this year and every year. Check the top 5-10 in each division and get back to me. I am not saying JCA this year isn’t good or they couldn’t compete in 7-8A I think they can but it would not be the same as competing every week as 4-5A? Heck I think it would be awesome to see them in 6,7 or 8A but I don’t think that can happen. Just like ESL they can compete with the big schools but let’s face it they are not the same as most in those divisions. JCA & ESL have great programs and traditions that want to play up and play the best. Most of the smaller schools don’t play the same caliber teams as these two programs do when they have the chance to play non-conference.
You've hit the nail on the head.
This team is toast if they don't change play callers after giving up 46, 36, and 56 points. They'll give up more than 35 points to Marist, but they'll ideally score 45 plus.
At the varsity level, I've never seen such a disjointed defense. Watch the players as they jog off the field, hands up, seeming perplexed.
They'll probably blame the players for their underperformance with this coaching approach. It's a shame.
Last edited:
I believe that @McCaravan justifications listed affect the defense more than an explosive offense that operates brilliantly.
When you're struggling to get 11 players on the field in week 7 of the season, you've got serious issues.
Is it possible for the Oak Forest head coach to return and call playoff plays?
I certainly don’t want to change anything about the offense since that’s all we have right now but was just curious if that could be part of the problem for them. And I agree there are several problems on that side of the ball.
Over last the 10 years, BR has scored a lot of points with this system but the year they played for a state title (2018) was primarily because of their defense.
My nephew was a member of the 2018 team, which was a special group.
As a freshman and sophomore, they went unbeaten, and then added two D-1 juniors in Jefferson and Iraci. That team's defense was unquestionably its strongest suit.
I went to the LA, MC, and JCA games this year and didn't recognize any of the coaches from 2018. It appears that BR has a lot of coaching turnover.
Very difficult to maintain the same staff unless they work in the building or they’re retired from their day job. Will be interesting to see what the new coach does next year for his varsity assistants and lower-level coaches.
I'll say this for you. You are consistent.
I try to avoid these types of debates, but I'm going to make an exception. There are a few things you need to consider regarding where JCA is classified this year. For some reason, the IHSA chose to use the same method of determining the application of the multiplier for the next two years by looking back at the 2019 and 2020 (of course no playoffs in '20) seasons. If JCA beats Mascoutah in the 2019 5A quarterfinals, they would be multiplied. The fact they did not means they only won 2 playoff games the last two years. Again, why did the IHSA use the same formula (have to win 3 playoff games in a 2-year stretch in order to be multiplied) when there were no playoffs in 2020? Take issue with the IHSA's decision to use that approach. And JCA did petition to stay in 4A, because they apparently felt they could have fallen below 4A. Also, if Rochester falls into 4A, 4A will be stronger than 5A, IMO, with Richmond-Burton, SHG, Rochester etc.
This is the best JCA team since 2007. In the span of seasons from 2008 to 2019, they won 1 state championship. Does that sound like domination? This senior class is an anomaly. I don't see any lower level classes approaching their talent level and petitioning up is a 2-year commitment. Would that be fair to next year's team? My answer is no.
So the timing of this unusually strong senior class coincides with the unusual circumstances of the IHSA's decision on the application of the multiplier. And let's see how the season plays out. No one is unbeatable in any class. There are a number of things that could derail the presumed overwhelming favorite in any class.
Last edited:
The new head coach is getting a good look at the coaching staff. I'm hoping he comes from a defensive coaching background. From the people I've spoken with, I've only heard positive things.
You are right on piip. I will only disagree in that JCA will pretty much be a lock to win state if I’m 4A. I would bet on it and I am not a betting man.
Last edited:
JCA is the best team in the state. They may have a playoff run that is historic in point differential. they could win any class.
Not sure what Rice is going to do with their defense but it is not working. Steve Nye joined that staff maybe he can take over that hot mess dumpster fire.
Not sure what Rice is going to do with their defense but it is not working. Steve Nye joined that staff maybe he can take over that hot mess dumpster fire.
Maybe not a popular comment, but JCA probably doesn’t belong in 4A.
I realize this is a weird year with COVID.
It’s unfortunate that IC only petitioned up to 3A. Wasn’t that long ago that they running clocked JCA in a year when both won state titles.
The only saving grace is that they’ll likely face Rochester in the finals.
I realize this is a weird year with COVID.
It’s unfortunate that IC only petitioned up to 3A. Wasn’t that long ago that they running clocked JCA in a year when both won state titles.
The only saving grace is that they’ll likely face Rochester in the finals.
Last edited:
This has nothing to do with the two teams or their game that’s being discussed but thanks for chiming in! Feel free to start a thread with this post as the topic.
In many ways, the 4A playoffs will be better than the 5A playoffs (where JC naturally ‘belongs’)for JC this season. Assuming Rochester drops to 4A, that really leaves only Mascoutah and Morris as teams on the radar for the title along with a few private schools well below JC’s tier. Maybe Sycamore, but they just lost to Richmond burton.
4A will have Richmond burton(better than sycamore), st Francis, SHG, and Rochester. From what I can gather, there are at least 5 teams in 4A that would be favored to win 5A if they played up a class.
what does all this mean? Sure. JC is markedly better than your average 4A team, which is where a lot of this dramatic “JC is going to murder 4A” rhetoric is coming from. But, if you actually look at it and remove the label of “4A” there are more teams in 4A capable of beating them than there are in 5A. So I think after a blowout or two in the early rounds, you could see some real good games from the quarterfinals on.
Last edited:
And to see if he continues to bring in a high rate of transfers as the current staff has been doing
Who said anything about 5A? Anything less than 6A is a shame. JCA needs to play in a playoff where they would be tested. 4 or 5A is going to be a cake walk to a state championship. That’s not to slam any of the other teams in those divisions it’s reality. Anything less than playing in 6A ESL or playing in 7or 8A is a shame. Again I would put money on JCA winning state in 4 or 5A. I would not put money on them if the played in 6,7 or 8A. Their is clearly a difference.
That’s fair to have that opinion. I disagree in that I believe JC will be tested in 4A. All 5 games? I’m sure not. But they wouldn’t be in the bigger classes either.
bottom line is you have taken a short week Rochester loss to LA and extrapolated that to believe that Rochester can’t hang with anyone in the upper classes when history has shown this to just not be the case. Perhaps it is true this year, but I, like most, believe Rochester is far better than that showing. Would my excitement for an ESL-JC matchup be higher than for a Rochester-JC matchup? Perhaps marginally, but I am excited at the prospect of either and uncertain on the outcome of both.
now if JC absolutely smacks around Richmond burton, and then st Francis, and then the Rochester/SHG winner I will admit they were just that dominant. But I just don’t see them smoking all of those schools in succession. Actually, I think those three games in succession would make for a very nice playoff run.
Hard to argue with you. I think JCA is better than anyone in those two classes. Heck they might be better than 6,7 or 8A but I think they would definitely be tested by Warren, ESL, LA, among others. I think it would be fun to see but I know it won’t or can’t happen.
Similar threads
