Macomb is actually South of Morris. So if Morris ends up in the South, it will be along with Macomb.
IHSA Playoff Outlook
- Thread starter cornerrat
- Start date
If all plays out as expected, there will be vacancies in the upper classes which will draw teams upward. As it looks now, there is a potential of four 4-5 teams which make it. It will come down to points. SHG will either be the 5th smallest in 4A or the smallest. I think only series of surprises will pull them down to 3A for IC and Williamsville to deal with in the later rounds. Otherwise, look forward to a Rochester-SHG semifinal, unless Morris moves from the North to the South and potentially disturbs the expected.
I thought Macomb will be 3A now. Given your post is just minutes old, has there been a change which moves them to 4A?
Sorry, cigaros. I saw your latest post which explains it. If what you say is correct about teams being pushed up, NO WAY SHG goes 3A.
You're correct. Where Morris ends up (in 4A) is the potential wild card. However, if SHG should indeed be the 5th smallest in 4A, how does Morris remain in 4A? Wouldn't they also get pushed up if spots in the higher classes needed to be filled? As far as an SHG-Rochester semifinal is concerned, as things stand NOW I believe the Rockets would have to end up in the Carterville 8-team group for that to happen. Carterville would be seeded #1 in the 16-team South Bracket and SHG #2. If Rochester ends up getting a 3rd seed, they would be in the same 8-team group as SHG, which portends a possible quarterfinal game between the two, not a semifinal.
Long time lurker, first time poster or at least first time in a decade or so.
This has been my question that no one is bringing up regarding Morris. Everyone has them right on the 4A north/south line but they are currently listed as the largest 4A school so if SHG keeps getting pushed further into 4A there is a realistic chance Morris goes 5A.
All... Yes I know I did the geography quite some time ago. Was commenting only on the scenario by Malleus. Ratsy
The first 4-5 team that will ask the playoffs this year will be Buffalo Grove in 7a. They. Are 4-4 now and won’t win on Friday so they will be 4-5 and have the most playoff points of any 4-5 team in the state. So to see if BG has a chance to win a game at the 16 seed in the north half, just take a look at who could be the 1 seed in the northern half and then decide if you watch the game if it aired on your desktop. BG plays Hersey (8-0) in Week 9.
If Hersey is the 1 seed in the north and 4-5 BG sneaks into the playoff field then the teams will have an immediate rematch in the playoff first round.
The only way there will not be a rematch is if Mt. Carmel beats Loyola in Week. 9 and gets placed in northern half of the 7 where it would’ve the 1 seed and Hersey would be 2. In that case, BG will play Mt. Carmel in the first round.
Mt. Carmel or Hersey? Pick your poison.
the only way BG can avoid this no-win situation is if another 4-5 team with Clsss 7a enrollment also makes the tourney field and is placed in the northern bracket of 16 while Mt Carmel is put in southern bracket. The you have Hersey 1 vs 16 seed tba and Buffalo grove 15 seed vs 2 seed tba.
Don’t expect that last scenario to play out.
So to sum things up, in this year, if a 4-5 team gets in, it’s probably doomed to get running-clocked and your point about middlin’ teams with no chance to win could be spot-on for this year.
There is no northern half for 7A, it's seeded straight 1-32. IF somehow a 4-5 BG gets in, and honestly I don't see any 4-5 teams getting in, but if it happens they would play MC or Hersey. BG would be 32 seed and would play the 1 seed. If somehow two 4-5 teams get into 7A BG would be 31 and play 2 regardless of who it may be or location in the state.
So here is what I have come up with. I posted this on another thread
There are 147 team already qualified. There are another 75 teams that have 5 wins. That brings you to 222 teams.
There are 67 teams with 4 wins. 16 of those teams play each other. That means another 8 teams in the playoffs bringing the field to 230 teams, leaving 26 spots left.
18 four-win teams play teams that are 8-0; 7-1 or 6-2. On the flip side, 15 team play teams that are 0-8; 1-7, 2-6.
13 teams play games against teams that are 5-3. only 5 teams play games against teams that are 3-5.
Based on this, I think we could see three or four teams that would get at large berths with 4-5 records.
There are 147 team already qualified. There are another 75 teams that have 5 wins. That brings you to 222 teams.
There are 67 teams with 4 wins. 16 of those teams play each other. That means another 8 teams in the playoffs bringing the field to 230 teams, leaving 26 spots left.
18 four-win teams play teams that are 8-0; 7-1 or 6-2. On the flip side, 15 team play teams that are 0-8; 1-7, 2-6.
13 teams play games against teams that are 5-3. only 5 teams play games against teams that are 3-5.
Based on this, I think we could see three or four teams that would get at large berths with 4-5 records.
I suspect your theory is legit even if the 4/4s have a great weekend & no 4/5s qualify except a league champ
Don't ALL teams make the playoffs in every other sport in IL too? That's just how high school is. Maybe (and I'm just guessing), we don't do that for footbally because you can only play once per week and we would go to January if they included everyone....
And if everyone played, you would likely run the risk of playoff forfeits which is a totally miserable situation. But matching 9-0 teams vs. 0-9 teams is a recipe for nothing good.
I don’t want it, but “everyone makes the playoffs” would only add 1 week. Bigger concern is probably not the blowouts, but the injuries.
All the other sports have the blowouts, but not the same injury risk. Quick look at last years first round 4A softball scores, and there are 31-0, 20-0, etc., and that’s “run rule” shortened games.
All the other sports have the blowouts, but not the same injury risk. Quick look at last years first round 4A softball scores, and there are 31-0, 20-0, etc., and that’s “run rule” shortened games.
If they forfeited I would put those teams on a 2 year post season suspension.
Is a forfeit that much worse than a game with no fans, no gate receipts and a running clock declared at the beginning of the second quarter or even earlier? It's bad enough when it happens in a scheduled season game. The added injury risk of taking a bunch of out-manned, dispirited teenage boys, already beat up by three months of practice and winless games and throwing them into a meatgrinder against bigger, better, better-coached young men, all for the sake of a hopeless game isn't sports. It's almost sadism. Football is harder on the body than other youth sports.
Even if you followed States that do run a universal football championship, hundreds of wildly lopsided scores would prove nothing. And if you did it on a regional basis, we'd have even more later-round blowouts. If you did, then it would be best to cut the season by a week and start the playoffs a week earlier
I doubt you'd find any support for a universal playoff among school officials, coaches or game officials and I suspect you'd see many more kids or their parents pulling out of football completely.
Again, i have no use for everyone in the playoffs, but outside of the injuries (and that’s a big factor), all of the other things you mentioned already happen in the other sports.
i mentioned softball before because thats what my daughters play. The one score was 31-0, in a shortened game. Football equivalent might be ending the game in the middle of 3rd quarter, with the score 120-0. Nobody was pulling their kids out over it.
back to football, if Random 9-0 team opened next week against XYZ 0-9 team, i promise you there would be fans, gate receipts, concessions sold. Maybe not many away fans. There are many games every week that its 99.9% known going in that it will be a blowout, and fans show up.
honestly, the biggest impact of everyone making the playoffs would probably be a lot of people losing their minds when a 3-6 (montini, just as an example) went a long run.
i mentioned softball before because thats what my daughters play. The one score was 31-0, in a shortened game. Football equivalent might be ending the game in the middle of 3rd quarter, with the score 120-0. Nobody was pulling their kids out over it.
back to football, if Random 9-0 team opened next week against XYZ 0-9 team, i promise you there would be fans, gate receipts, concessions sold. Maybe not many away fans. There are many games every week that its 99.9% known going in that it will be a blowout, and fans show up.
honestly, the biggest impact of everyone making the playoffs would probably be a lot of people losing their minds when a 3-6 (montini, just as an example) went a long run.
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Absolutely ridiculous that you think finishing with a positive should exclude you from the playoffs. Every sport always has some teams make the playoffs with not so good records and has always been that way
That happened in Indiana when Napanee Northwood 3-6 ran the table & won State at 8-6
I'll second this. If a softball or baseball team is outscoring the other team, it's just a matter of them hitting the ball out of the park or bad fielding of the ball or strikeouts. If a football team is outscoring the other team, it's usually a skill and size thing. Size discrepancies on the line or for tackles inevitably lead to injuries. Football simply isn't other sports.
If it were up to me we'd go back to 6 classes and needing to be at least 6-3 to make the playoffs.
That being said if everyone were allowed in it would be very unlikely you would see 0-9 vs. 9-0 teams. 9-0, 8-1, and possibly 7-2 teams would likely receive a bye and 0-9 teams would likely play 6-3 teams in the opening rounds. Not saying the results would be much better but it avoids Loyola playing Waubonsie Valley in round 1.
That being said if everyone were allowed in it would be very unlikely you would see 0-9 vs. 9-0 teams. 9-0, 8-1, and possibly 7-2 teams would likely receive a bye and 0-9 teams would likely play 6-3 teams in the opening rounds. Not saying the results would be much better but it avoids Loyola playing Waubonsie Valley in round 1.
The math: for 8 classes with 64 teams in each bracket you need 512 teams which is probably pretty darn close to the entire field which would have 0/9 vs 0/9 and 8/1 vs 1/8.
But let’s say you only have 500 teams. You now have to get down to 256 teams for a bracket with 32 teams in each class. So you have 12 byes and 488 play first round games to get 244 winners plus 12 byes.
As of Friday morning there were 30-plus unbeatens in the state at 8-0.
So letting everyone in really fixes nothing in terms of mismatches that being safety into major play in my opinion.
Here is the Indiana breakdown by class, where everyone gets in. It doesn't make much sense to me though, maybe you can figure it out. Second link to sectional assignment also shows that classes are uneven so this makes even less sense and tells me classes are decided prior to the season. Pairings were also determined prior to the regular season ending.
All missouri teams make football playoffs. Why in Illinois is there 8 classes for football and 4 for almost all other sports?
No need for more than 4 classes in every sport other than football because you're playing more than one game per week. Used to be 6 classes in football but then we entered the 2000's and the IHSA decided everyone needed a trophy.
Initially there were only 5 classes in Illinois football and only conference champions and undefeated independents were invited. In 1975 a three way tie in the old Capitol Conference was resolved by tiebreaker and Griffin (now SHG) got in with a 6-3 record and got as far as the 4A title game v. JC. The next year a much better team failed to get in at 8-1 due to losing to Normal Community for the conference title.
Very true, but wasn't sure how long they used 5 classes (I don't think it was too long) and didn't think too many would remember that.
I think a team like JCA could go out run the table in 4A with a 5-4 record in any given year. If their losses were to Mt. Carmel, Rita, Loyola or Marist.
It was a cooooold day in Normal and JC had the biggest dang HS players I'd ever seen. They looked like college players. It wasn't pretty.
After the game my wife commented, we have to get like that.
Sorry it’s hard for me to get on board for teams with a losing record. If it was LWE and they had a 4-5 record and made the playoffs I would be the first one to say they don’t deserve it!
Food for thought…
Every state that I know of that every team makes the playoffs starts with their districts. You play the local schools first before spreading your wings to the other parts of the state. It’s really inevitable as your not gonna travel all over the state for 8 weeks or for 0-9 vs 9-0 games.
Two obvious frustrations the faithful in our state will have w this:
1) majority of us would like 1-32 seeding. Never gonna have it if everyone makes it. Even more of playing familiar opponents early in the playoffs.
2) since your gonna have to get out of your district first there tends to be unfair games in the first two weeks. Ex 8-1 could play 6-3 round one while 3-6 plays 0-9. Just how it plays out.
These two reasons are why I hope IHSA never lets everyone in. Plus, the weather sucks post thanksgiving here.
I enjoy current configuration of 256 teams with eventual move to 7 classes (combining 1 and 2A) as more schools go 8 man ball. I think a winning record deserves postseason play and its more fun for schools/communities when they make it if everybody doesn’t gets in.
Imo IHSA has as great a playoff configuration as u can possibly get (WITH 1-32!)
Imo IHSA has as great a playoff configuration as u can possibly get (WITH 1-32!)
I wouldn’t really say if you’re 4-5 you don’t “deserve it”. 4-5 coming from the CCL, DVC, DuKane I would say you could still “deserve it”. If the (5) losses are against larger schools, all close or you had some injuries early in year….I’d say you still could be a deserving team.
10 years ago we all woulda say 5-4 wasn’t deserving…
There is also the physicality of football which prevents the state wide playoff you see in basketball. Not healthy for kids in the long run.
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