And if he signs somewhere else? They had the money to get it done. The odds of finding a player of his caliber with the 38th pick in the draft is slim and none. He's been a massive difference maker.
But, people gonna complain to complain.
Bears
- Thread starter Wassup13
- Start date
But, people gonna complain to complain.
It was 100% the right move…..anyone who thinks otherwise is not watching the games.
Mooney has to go. His routes are atrocious. Every ball that is thrown to him, he drifts away from the throw and allows it to be broken up or intercepted. That's practice squad stuff.
The difference is this. GB has always been in the hunt since Favre and up until now. They always seem to be right there. I'd take that over continuous losing seasons with no chance. No one is saying a great QB is all you need to win a Super Bowl. We are smarter than that. But do some research and look up all Super Bowls and look at who the QBs were who participated in them and won them. You will see that the vast, vast majority of them are HOF QBs. The first QB to win a SB who isn't in the HOF was Jim Plunkett. That was in the 15th SB. There are plenty of people who feel he belongs. That is a conversation for another day.
Of the 52 SBs that have been played only 9 QBs who won are not in the HOF. Outside of those 9 the others who aren't in yet, will be. There have been 20 losing QBs who are in the HOF. There are seven other losing QBs who will eventually get in.
No, a great QB is not all you need. But two things, Most QBs who are in the HOF at least participated in a Super Bowl. And yes, for the most part, you do need a very, very good or great QB to get there.
I have seen time and time again, all the complaining about the Bears coaching and play calling. And yes, it is abysmal. So, I was thinking about Justin Fields. Here, at this point, is what I would like to see him do. He needs to start changing plays in the huddle or at the line if he feels like they aren't going to work or be productive. F--- it. He needs to start winning or losing his way instead of listening to a bunch of coaches who don't have a clue.
Those of us who followed the Bears in the 80s remember very well the battles McMahon and Ditka would have regarding plays being called and run. Ditka used to get pissed when McMahon would change a play. After the game someone would ask McMahon why he changed a play and he would simply say, "because I didn't think the play that was sent in would work."
Case in point. Early in McMahon's career we all remember when the Bears would be 3rd and 8 or more. They would go into the shotgun and McMahon would give the ball to Walter and he'd run for five or six yards and they would punt. One day there they were 3rd and 9. Ditka sends the same old play in and McMahon says "f--- that." He called for a pass play instead. He completed the pass and the Bears got a 1st down. The first guy who came up to him after the play was Payton, who said; "thank you for not giving me the ball again on that play."
This is what Fields needs to do or something similar. Go to the damned line and change a play or change a stupid call in the huddle. I mean, what is Eberflus gonna do? Bench him? Maybe the f---ing play will work! Then after the game, when he is asked, Fields can say, " I changed the damned play because I didn't think the one that was sent in would work." I would love to see that and if he stood up to their stupidity like that I would instantly be his biggest fan. There is nothing to lose now, so why not?
Those of us who followed the Bears in the 80s remember very well the battles McMahon and Ditka would have regarding plays being called and run. Ditka used to get pissed when McMahon would change a play. After the game someone would ask McMahon why he changed a play and he would simply say, "because I didn't think the play that was sent in would work."
Case in point. Early in McMahon's career we all remember when the Bears would be 3rd and 8 or more. They would go into the shotgun and McMahon would give the ball to Walter and he'd run for five or six yards and they would punt. One day there they were 3rd and 9. Ditka sends the same old play in and McMahon says "f--- that." He called for a pass play instead. He completed the pass and the Bears got a 1st down. The first guy who came up to him after the play was Payton, who said; "thank you for not giving me the ball again on that play."
This is what Fields needs to do or something similar. Go to the damned line and change a play or change a stupid call in the huddle. I mean, what is Eberflus gonna do? Bench him? Maybe the f---ing play will work! Then after the game, when he is asked, Fields can say, " I changed the damned play because I didn't think the one that was sent in would work." I would love to see that and if he stood up to their stupidity like that I would instantly be his biggest fan. There is nothing to lose now, so why not?
My two cents: no QB or offense in general will be successful if the O-line plays as poorly as the Bears' O-line played yesterday. When you are ranking areas of need for the Bears, remember this Browns game. Can't believe Braxton Jones is the long-term answer at LT, and from Sam Mustipher to Lucas Patrick, the Bears haven't had a decent center in years. O-line still has to be a high priority for Poles. Darnel Wright was a nice addition. More help is needed.
Poles made him the 3rd highest DE in the league behind only Nick Bosa and Myles Garrett. He was coming here.
Completely agree. add a couple of guards and a punter to tha list Jenkins is a walking disabed list and Nate Davis has pretty much been useless and the punter is the worst in the NFL
In reality there’s a ruling class and the rest are there to make up the schedule. For now the Bears are the latter.
IMO, the Bears are 1 WR, 2 OL, and 1 DL/LB away from being one of the best in the NFC. This draft will determine if we get to see some postseason action for the next 5 years, or if we will continue the QB/Head Coach/GM revolving door.
Well Jerry's got 2 Super Bowls and are in contention most every year. Snyder in Washington had an ego but he didn't care about winning, he was like the other owners and all about the money.
They were also going up against the best defense in the league. Where was the complaining about the OL when they were beating Detroit and Minnesota?
Yeah, that's not how the NFL works anymore. A QB starts changing plays just because he doesn't like the call and he won't be playing on any team, with the exception of Brady and Rodgers.
Yeah, maybe just hoping that the WR and OL fix will require less of that position.
Agree. Draft Harrison and either the OT from PSU or ND. They can get another edge rusher in free agency. They just spent big on LB's last year, they're fine there. They need to find a safety to replace Jackson who needs to be fired into the sun.
They need an offensive minded head coach and good OC who can get together and put out a game plan that caters to Fields' strenghts. Then a DC who can build on what they have going. Flus would be a great DC but you can't just demote him.
You could say this about more than one NFL team. Not just the Bears. Mark my words. The Bears will win nothing of significance with Fields at QB.
It has nothing to do with that. No doubt the QB position has changed. A lot of today's QBs can't think for themselves and can't see things they should. That is why they just run what's called. Maybe they just don't know what the hell to call in a given situation.
Rodgers and Brady weren't the only ones. I guarantee Mahomes changes plays. Maybe not frequently. I don't doubt Russell Wilson has too. I would submit that if you look at the better QBs in the league year in and year out you'd find they change plays more than we might think.
Fields, on the other hand, is more of a robot. I watch him and I don't see where he has a "feel" for the position or the instinct. He still can't see when guys are open and I think the game moves too fast for him at times. He's still holding onto the ball too long when he is back there and doesn't seem to realize it's OK to throw the ball away instead of taking a sack. Several of the sacks he's taken have been a result of simply hanging onto the ball too long.
The question remains. Is Fields the guy the Bears can win with? I doubt it. But in my mind, one thing is for sure. The Bears will not win because of Fields. Kurt Warner said it best on the NFL Channel pregame on Sunday when he said. "There are two types of QBs. Ones you can win with and ones you win because of." Think about that difference.
I guarantee they don't. Even QBs like Mahomes aren't changing plays because they like something better. They will audible based on what the defense shows, not to spite a bad coaching call.
So in your infinite wisdom, who should the Bears draft to replace him?
All QB’s coming out of college are robots and run what’s called. Rodgers and Brady are exceptions and only got that privilege later in their careers.
Frankly if the Bears don’t fix that offensive line Rodgers or Brady couldn’t win.
Frankly if the Bears don’t fix that offensive line Rodgers or Brady couldn’t win.
The topic is different at this time than it was a year ago. Clearly this team is better and on the cusp of being a playoff team. They have draft capital and a ton of cap space again.
Bringing in a new QB likely doesn’t take the next step. The middle of the O line is bad bad.
It’s easy to blame fields for everything in offense but I’m not sure the ghost of Kenny Stabler or Bart Starr in their primes could win in this scenario.
Another issue that has crept up of late is RB. They don’t have one.
I think the defense is 1-2 players away from being a top 5 group.
Offensively, 4-5 so potentially half the offense. If that includes the QB so be it, but the other areas of need far outweigh that position.
It’s an excellent draft for o linemen and even better for WR. Free agency is loaded with edges safeties and corners. If they spend well there - Griffin, Allen, etc. this could be a really fun team in 2024.
Bringing in a new QB likely doesn’t take the next step. The middle of the O line is bad bad.
It’s easy to blame fields for everything in offense but I’m not sure the ghost of Kenny Stabler or Bart Starr in their primes could win in this scenario.
Another issue that has crept up of late is RB. They don’t have one.
I think the defense is 1-2 players away from being a top 5 group.
Offensively, 4-5 so potentially half the offense. If that includes the QB so be it, but the other areas of need far outweigh that position.
It’s an excellent draft for o linemen and even better for WR. Free agency is loaded with edges safeties and corners. If they spend well there - Griffin, Allen, etc. this could be a really fun team in 2024.
The Bears are currently the #2 rushing team in the league. Roschon Johnson is only a rookie, but he will be good. They don't have a feature back but I'm fine with RB by committee because if you only have one RB and he goes down you're in trouble.
Why don't you pay attention to what you read before you respond to something and stop twisting words. I did NOT say a QB should change a play because he doesn't "like" the play. You are actually making my point by saying plays get changed by what a QB sees at the line. Well, NO SHIT genius. That's what I was saying. McMahon said he changed the play because he didn't think the one that was sent in would work. He didn't say "I didn't like that play." Although saying the change was made because the play sent in wouldn't work also means he didn't like it, right?
So, if Fields changes plays and if more often than not they work should he be benched? In your world you would bench him because he is hurting your little ego. And I would feel that same way about any coach who would put his ego ahead of winning...and some guys do. Next time understand the content you're speaking against.
Come on. Wasn't last Sunday Fields' 35th game as a starter? He's been in the league three years. Just when do you think he is going to be "mature" enough to call his own plays? I guarantee guys like the Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Prescott and a host of others were changing some plays at this point in their careers. If you think Fields has the ability to be a top flight QB like these guys, then he needs to take a bigger role in his game.
And didn't Fields say a while back that he was being bombarded with too much information by the coaches? What do you think that means? If he isn't ready to change some plays at this point, then the Bears definitely shouldn't offer a contract extension. Mental growth is just as important as physical growth.
So how often is Fields currently audibling? Since you think he's not doing it enough or at the right times, what percentage of plays is he audibling out of?
Why are you using McMahon as a benchmark? You're referencing something from almost 40 years ago and he wasn't even a good QB.
The Sun Times just had a breakdown of Fields first 17 games versus his second 17 games and there was clear improvement. You also mention Allen and there was a graphic that showed his second 17 games are almost identical to Fields second 17 games.
How often did guys like Manning and Brady audible throughout their careers? How many of those were actual audibles and how many were them picking one of two plays the coaches gave them? Several times a QB will be given two plays from the coach and the QB decides based on the look the defense comes out in. This isn't an audible in the sense you are implying but just picking the better of two plays.
I'm also willing to bet that all of the QB's you mentioned didn't have the control you think they did in year 3 of their careers. In his 3rd year Brady threw 14 picks which was tied for the most in a season in his career so odds are he didn't have free reign over the offense at the line.
That's because during the first 17 games he was at or near the bottom of the league in nearly every QB stat. The only way to go was up.
Jim McMahon was a Pro Bowl QB in the year the Bears won their one and only SB. Like him or not he was the guy who did it because when he was hurt and didn't play in subsequent playoffs the Bears went nowhere. However, it's fair to say he had a lousy second half the second time the Bears lost to the Redskins in the playoffs.
My money says Fields doesn't lead this team or any other to a SB title.
I wouldn't call McMahon a great QB. But he had two qualities Fields doesn't possess. At least not yet. He could read defenses quite early in his career and he was a leader...a real leader.
Look at CJ Stroud. He is already better than Fields. Are the Texans really better than the Bears? By that much? Ask yourself this. Are the Texans winning with Stroud? Or are the Texans winning because of Stroud? I think you know the answer.
That was the only year McMahon ever made the Pro Bowl and he still wasn't that good even in that year. He had 15 TD's to 11 INT's, last year Fields had 17 TD's and 11 INT's. Using Pro Bowl appearances is also a weak argument, Mac Jones also made a Pro Bowl. He was a leader? He was a pain in the ass that made for good media coverage. I don't think anyone would say that Jim McMahon would have ever been the first person they went to in the locker room. You're also conveniently leaving out that McMahon had the best defense ever and one of the greatest RB's ever.
Well the Texas just won a game without Stroud so I think I do know the answer. With Stroud the Texans are 7-6, but you also have to remember that they are farther along in their rebuild process than the Bears by about a year and they also had two top 5 picks last year and used the other on Will Anderson. The Bears should be where the Texans are next year. Stroud has had a good rookie year but he's only beat 2 teams that currently have a winning record.
Jim McMahon recently said he doesn't watch NFL football anymore. I think someone asked him about Fields and I think he said he knew nothing about him.
As for McMahon you aren't telling me anything I don't know. Save it for someone else. Did the Bears of the 1980s ever play in a SB without McMahon? Pro Bowls in the 80s were much different than now. MUCH different. Guys actually played the game and tackled the guy with the ball. Now it's a joke. I remember one year in the 80s when a fight actually started on the field of the Pro Bowl. Lots of pushing and shoving too. To compare today's Pro Bowls to those of the 1980s is a very weak argument. But keep trying.
And the Texans beat one of the worst teams in the AFC and needed all of OT to do it. And here we go again with the excuses as to why the Texans are winning and the Bears aren't. The Texans won three games, tied one and lost 13 including one to the Bears in 2022. The Bears won three games including a win against the Texans and lost fourteen in 2022. The only difference was that tie. In 2021 the Texans won four games and lost thirteen while the Bears won six and lost ten. Don't give me that garbage that they are so far ahead of the Bears in the rebuild. Maybe the Texans have better people in the organization.
I get sick and tired of arguing with meatheads like you who are apologists for players like Fields and the Bears themselves. When the Bears and Fields win something of significance we can talk. But I don't think we will have that conversation when you include Fields. Time will tell.
That fact that you are even comparing Fields to McMahon tells me all I need to know about your football knowledge. You're also just proving my point that you don't need an elite level QB to be successful.
And the Texans with Stroud also lost to Carolina, the worst team in the league. The Bears should win their next two games and possibly the last game against GB. That would give them 7 or 8 wins. That would be a great improvement from last year and right on par with where the Texans may finish. The rebuild is working and another successful offseason and the Bears are a playoff team next year.
I get sick of people like you who are ready to jump off the bridge with every loss. Where were you after the Minnesota and Detroit games that they won the two weeks prior? Why weren't you shouting from the rooftops how terrible Fields is then?
Odds are none of the QBs in this draft are Brady or Mahomes.
Aaron Rodgers is an all time great but has won the Super Bowl once.
Nick Foles won a Super Bowl as a backup.
Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl.
The 49ers are one of the best teams in the league with a 7th round QB.
QB is obviously important, and the Bears should draft one, but not with the first overall pick imho.
Aaron Rodgers is an all time great but has won the Super Bowl once.
Nick Foles won a Super Bowl as a backup.
Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl.
The 49ers are one of the best teams in the league with a 7th round QB.
QB is obviously important, and the Bears should draft one, but not with the first overall pick imho.
Similar threads
