MCHS,
It was attempted last year from what I heard but just didn't happen. I think it would be good for both teams.
It was attempted last year from what I heard but just didn't happen. I think it would be good for both teams.
The thread I always like to look back on: Your prediction on your team.
- Thread starter JCHILLTOPPERS
- Start date
JC,
If that game could be played it would have to be a year that Montini dropped a game like Lake Zurich Maine South or didn't have a team like Brother Rice. And for Nazareth it would be better for them in a year where they don't have a Marist or NND or maybe even JCA.
There is no way that both teams could keep all the really tough teams in a year they played.
I don't really know how the ESCC works with schedules but I think I get it well enough to know they don't always play every team in the conference.
I would love to see Naz play Montini and since they are so close by one another It's kind of shocking that they don't already play.
Dropping BR (which is nonconference, not crossover) would be fine with me.
Agree 100. Have it rotate like they do now, 1 school for 2 years and then move on to the next.
That would be a killer week 1 game! By geography, do you mean GW would not want to shine a light on a close option....err, neighbor? I guess I can see that. Certainly would be better than Morton.
Agreed. One cross over each year and eliminating permanent. If GW could switch out AT for GBN, America might actually be great again.
I would say drop both crossovers. If schools wanted to keep their "rivalry" game thats on them.
Outside of message board bravado and chest-thumping, what does purpose does MCHS-NA serve? I understand, "All Racki needs to do is call," but why should he? The man doesn't care about what message boards say or think (he's got me for that), he cares about making his players better young men, winning playoff games, and winning conference. Winning games against a hypothetical rival with no in-season benefit? WGAF...
I think any top end Glen Ellyn kids are already getting recruited by Montini, especially if they attend St. Pets. As well as getting the recruiting talk from St. Francis and Benet. I believe Brodner and Andreasek attended there? At this point, would losing a game to Montini really hurt them that much? I don't think so. Unless something drastic changes at GW, I think kids are going to go there unless they have a family connection to attend Montini (alumni, staff), or parents really want them to attend a Catholic High School.
I probably should let Montini people address this, but I'll give it a shot. Those teams, like Montini, that play tough non-con schedules believe that playing tough games early reveals the makeup of their team and allows the coaching staff to make early adjustments in personnel and possibly scheme. You can flip the question as well. What benefit is derived for Naz in playing schools like Dunbar and Leo?
You can argue Montini has an easier conference schedule than Naz in the CCL Green (although crossovers mitigate that to some degree), but I think Naz has progressed to the point that they should contend for the ESCC title most every year. I don't think they are at the point where they need to worry about making the playoffs. Why not play a tougher non-con schedule to match the current strength of the program?
Also, if I'm a Montini "recruiter", I would use Naz' non-con schedule against them. Go to Montini. We believe in playing the best competition. Look at our non-con schedule and the fact we play in the CCL. They can also point to the results. Montini's approach certainly has worked for them. Naz has had recent success, but not the sustained success of Montini (at least over the last decade).
I agree that any kid from the Glen is aware of and drawn to these other options regardless of whether they play in season. I was referring to a comment made by @mchsalumni in trying to understand why he felt "geography" would play a role in these teams not playing. I certainly hope the high end kids continue to have a reason to save their money and play for one of the top coaches in IL.
@JCHILLTOPPERS where do the non-partisans place Hetlet now? Top3? Top 5?
Capn, the most honest answer I can give is I don't know enough about the inner-workings of Hetlet's teams to give an in-depth answer. He is easily one of the state's premier coaches. I would probably leave him just outside the top 5 and would say it would be foolish to say he is not a top ten member.
The reason I leave him out of the top 5 is GW's offense. I've felt for a long time GW was one of the most well-coached, disciplined defensive teams in the State. For years and years on this board, however, in ranking threads, I've given numerous other top level teams the better ranking as I just felt if GW was in a tight one, another great with a great offense and good defense would score. I look at last season as a great example for my case. GW was super, #2 in my opinion. However, a vanilla offense (though slightly less vanilla last season), had a difficult team with MC, who had a poor offense. MC should have tied that game late. It was lenti's worse strategic moment as a coach in my opinion.
I've felt if GW's offense was not so vanilla, they would have won more titles.
That is taking a look through the glasses of a critic though.
This pretty much covers it, plus it would be fun for fans and players. A ton of bleed in terms of geography, why not fight for some bragging rights? Why not challenge your team to slay a giant?In the case of Naz-MCHS, not so much, but scheduling up always shows where your greatest weaknesses lie and offers your team a chance to do what others say cannot be done.
GBW is so much larger and so close geographically, it could be seen as a negative if (IF) they were to lose a game to MCHS. Much different for MS, LZ and BR, where there is very little overlap, or none.
FYI, I place Hetlet in the Top 10 definitely, but likely outside top 5. Talk to me in 3-5 years and we'll see where he is then. If the winning is sustained, he would definitely move up. There are some HOF coaches ahead of him, so no knock, just need to see more of a resume here.
Nothing you said in any way addresses the three things that matter to the program. You are pointing out things that matter here, not to a staff.
Those teams, like Montini, that play tough non-con schedules believe that playing tough games early reveals the makeup of their team and allows the coaching staff to make early adjustments in personnel and possibly scheme. You can flip the question as well. What benefit is derived for Naz in playing schools like Dunbar and Leo?
Racki knows the make-up of his teams - they are Tim Racki teams. Plus there is no need to reveal scheme against a tougher program BEFORE conference and the playoffs. "Here, let me show you all the wrinkles I have to beat tough teams before beating tough teams actually matters." From a logic perspective, that is flawed as can be... Why schedule Leo? Okay, schedule someone else, but that's no reason to say they need to play Montini.
Why not play a tougher non-con schedule to match the current strength of the program? Because once again, non-conference games do not help you in any way accomplish what three things matter.
Also, if I'm a Montini "recruiter", I would use Naz' non-con schedule against them. Go to Montini. We believe in playing the best competition. Look at our non-con schedule and the fact we play in the CCL. They can also point to the results. Montini's approach certainly has worked for them. Naz has had recent success, but not the sustained success of Montini (at least over the last decade).
Okay, sweet non-conference schedule. The conference schedules are equally brutal, and again, that's what matters... Montini can tout that and Nazareth will tout everything that has been clicking for the past 4 seasons in terms of drawing talent... The Nazareth staff will happily discuss the dozens of other things more important to a kid than non-conference schedule.
I agree with point 3. Points 1 and 2, I disagree. You don't have to drop everything on a bigger non-con opponent and trying to figure out where your weaknesses lie will not be helped by a struggle against Dunbar, sorry.
I'm not going to address the first parts of your response. Naz' approach has worked the last few years. If they fall into 5A this year, I'm confident it will work again and lead to another state championship. I would say they could do better to give themselves at least a mild challenge. As a fan of IL HS football, I'd like to see them play at least one non-con game that is competitive.
I agree 100% with your above quote. There are numerous things more important than a non-con schedule in determining where a family chooses to send their kid. I'll extend that to a team's scheme as well. I'm guessing most parents are not deciding where to send their kid based on the scheme the football team runs.
Fair enough. I am on the side of keeping the throttle open, even in big games, where I think GW sometimes plays more conservatively in the hopes D can win the day. Sometimes that works (MC), Sometimes that doesn't (Stevie 14, LZ '11, '13). Last year the team opened up the field more than ever and the payoff was a title. I will still take his 96-8 record over last 8 years in 7A/8A as a sign he is on his way toward pushing into Top 5 status.
I will say one issue is that sometimes the best QB's at GW end up playing LB/DB. Frosh QBs turn into Soph LBs often. I was speaking to an incoming frosh QB that will face the same decision next year. The LB/S in Hetlet's scheme is the rock star.
If I am a strong QB prospect from the Glen, would I want to play at GW throwing 6-10 passes a game or go to MCHS or Benet and throw 30-35 times a game?
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I think coaches know their weaknesses, at least good ones. Every season I hear about what our weaknesses will be, long before they are hashed out in-season.
This isn't the BCS. Non-conference games have little value beyond a perceived value that is being reached for. If anything, noncon games have a far greater potential to be a hindrance than a benefit. If your conference is weak, there is a greater benefit. However, when you play in a solid conference, that benefit of "testing mettle" is lessened significantly.
Montini clearly values their noncon games, but that's not a shared belief across HS football.
I'd like to see the two teams meet in the playoffs, but really don' care about playing them in some "much needed" game for the fan bases.
As a fan of IL HS football, I'd like to see them play at least one non-con game that is competitive.
Okay, so you'll agree that it's entirely for the fans. Good, we've made headway.
I'll extend that to a team's scheme as well. I'm guessing most parents are not deciding where to send their kid based on the scheme the football team runs.
I'll disagree with this as a whole, but to stay on the point of this discussion say scheme is far greater a thought for kid's choosing than noncon schedule. As a whole though there are far greater considerations for parents, at least good ones.
Devaluing scheme is silly, but to devalue it in a talk of 2 games that don't matter is really silly. Plus, who even brought up scheme? I can only imagine this is some shot at a certain successful coach turned OC... Please keep your bickering with other individuals out of logical conversations. Mixing message board feuds and drama with football talk is insulting to football talk.
Agree with mchsalumni
Schedule the game because its a game people want to see. At the end of the day this is all entertainment.
Schedule the game because its a game people want to see. At the end of the day this is all entertainment.
Pechloff is a bad example. He was choosing to go to Montini in what Hetlett's 1st year at GW, or before he even got there? GW was no where near where it's at now.
I would hope that if GW had a real top-end, true D1 prospect at QB they would open up the offense more. Was Beneventi a GW kid? I could see how a kid would shy away though in that situation.
Beneveti was the guy I was picturing as he was a GW kid that chose Benet. Not sure if we beat Stevie with Beneveti or not. Most of us really liked our QB in '14.
He was GW territory and I really have no idea what drove his decision as I do not know him or his family.
Had he gone to GW, he would have never seen the field his soph year at GW, while at Benet, he started and took them to 7A semis. He may have started his junior year at GW, and if so, maybe we beat LZ in semis, but I don't want to rile Newt. Senior year was a disaster, so no salt to rub here.
Youre want to get our WR's
For real, though I'm up for any great game... Including Montini. I think we have DGS again next year. I feel like that's done for. I like the top games and DGS has fallen on hard times since Bailey forced Belskis to retire.
Youre want to get our WR's
For real, though I'm up for any great game... Including Montini. I think we have DGS again next year. I feel like that's done for. I like the top games and DGS has fallen on hard times since Bailey forced Belskis to retire.
bones is up for any great game so he can say: brook -5
Coaching staffs don't change their offensive scheme because they have one super talented guy. Case in point, QB Anthony Maddie left Joliet Catholic and transferred to Aurora Christian before his Junior season.
JCA has a scheme that works for them and it does not include passing the ball 70% of the time. Maddie was able to showcase his athleticism and throwing ability more in the AC offense. Check out the arm...
Bottom line, it is difficult for a high school QB to earn a college scholarship if they are in an offense that rarely throws the ball. JCA is a dream come true for talented running backs. Not so much quarterbacks.
Not saying you have to change everything, but you can adjust within your base system. Its silly not to adjust to special players. Didn't Naz put Julian Love all over the offense last year? Didn't GW put Brodner at WR last year occasionaly when they needed a big play? Pretty sure Lenti threw the ball 20+ times against GW last year becuase the QB could throw, and was hurt that game as well. If your really going to be a great coach in my eyes, you have to adjust.
It's another reason that the spread, in this day and age, is a better offence to run at the high school level. It will showcase all your atheletes, not just your running backs! Take your OL, it shows their ability to pass pro, zone block along with their ability to power block! Again my opinion.
