Active Shooter at OSU
- Thread starter Dr. Mirakle
- Start date
To avoid escalating incidents with law enforcement just remember what you were taught in DARE...Comply and you will not die.
Also, in 2015 and looks the same way for 2016, law enforcement used fatal force against twice as many white people when compared to blacks. Wash Post tracks all this data.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
Brinn, all the years youve popped up here Ive never once seen you post anything that made me think you put an ounce of thought into it.
Streak continues.
I feel terribly about the young man, his family and friends such as yourself. You're all in my prayers and I will add this to my parish's prayer book tomorrow
The roots of violence are many and varied. Politics, unfortunately, is one of them Some violence is hastened or supported by laws politicians pass. That's a sad fact of life, but it is the case.
Whatever the causes of all this violence, they need to be discussed.
I hope everyone in your situation can find peace and that the young man recovers fully.
Your statistics might be correct. I have not reviewed them. I don't know if circumstances are taken into consideration. In other words, how many shootings were justified?
I do know, however, that there has been several incidences of young black men being murdered by the police -- who got away with it
If young white men are being murdered by police, that' horrifying, as well. It doesn't change the situation, however.
MC63,
Thank you first off for the prayers they are appreciated.
On this second political topic let's just refer to them as young Men and Women and stop sticking color designators on them. If we want to have racism go away we need to all stop seeing colors and start seeing Human Beings!
Thank you first off for the prayers they are appreciated.
On this second political topic let's just refer to them as young Men and Women and stop sticking color designators on them. If we want to have racism go away we need to all stop seeing colors and start seeing Human Beings!
The stats are inconsequential. Regardless of race our police kill people at an astronomical rate compared to other "western countries"
We have all these people claiming that theyre for gun rights and against government over reach but are silent when police kill someone then use the excuse "he had a gun."
*crickets*
We have all these people claiming that theyre for gun rights and against government over reach but are silent when police kill someone then use the excuse "he had a gun."
*crickets*
My name is spelled with 1 ‘n’ but not surprised you don’t pay attention to details.
You’re right, I didn’t put an ounce of thought into that post, all I did was summarize some figures provided by the Washington Post.
But on the other hand, let’s take a look at your post. There are a lot of valid reasons for wanting/needing a firearm, but your reason is, you’re of the opinion that Trump’s AG is sympathetic to police who murder minorities, which can only lead the reader to believe that you need a high powered automatic rifle, associated with dozens of mass murders, because you anticipate some sort of confrontation with law enforcement. That my sir could be taken as, at the very least threatening, if not terrorism. For this, I’m not responding to anything you post because of your beliefs and what actions should follow those beliefs. Also, I’m going to recommend that Edgy forward your thoughts to the Bolingbrook PD, or I just might do that on my own.
I can't believe I'm still reading this thread but I keep checking for new posts...
I was thinking the same thing - it's like driving by that fender bender on the road - you know you shouldn't slow down and look which will bog down traffic further,.. but you can't help your self and do it anyway....
Well of course, because an idiot such as yourself doesnt even know what terrorism is. Which isnt a suprise at all since during your tenure you havent exhibited tthat you know much of anything really.
But you did get the spelling of your name correct, so I guess that is the highlight of your day.
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Gentlemen, if I may quote II Fallopians, regarding the original post ...
"Do-ith with thine gun-ith if thee must, as salvation, for he who sheds the blood of man thru butcher knife and car."
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Bones, I usually like your posts but "Police murders"? Murder is a crime which should be prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law regardless of whom the offender is. I believe your post is an over simplification of what is actually happening in this country. It appears from what I have read in the newspapers and watched in the media that there are many others who share your opinion but likewise they are many who do not share that opinion. We have a criminal justice system in this country which altho broken in many aspects is there to ensure justice is done regardless of whom the offender is.
This country has way too many people who are carrying a gun illegally and they are not afraid to use their weapons on innocent others. Black on Black crime is devastating the black community and many young black men are being slaughtered by black offenders. This is quite frankly the issue which needs to be urgently addressed. Being a police officer in today's climate is a thankless and increasingly dangerous occupation as is evidenced by the number of slain black and white police officers this year. Who else besides police officers are going to try and prevent the murderous illegal activities that are occurring daily in this country. The FBI, ATF, National Guard, etc?
I apologize if this gets lengthy,
Gene, I am going to answer this because I believe your post to be in good faith an attempt to really discuss this. Normally when people try to bring "black on black" crime into the conversation I check out because generally it's from someone like Brin with no capability to understand or investigate the nuances and subtleties of a topic like this. The vast majority of crime in America is one race against the same race. It's simply a product of proximity. White on white, black on black, Latino on Latino, etc. I don't know how this awful phrase gets repeated time and time again despite being refuted time and time again. It needs to stop. Furthermore, this is an attempt to deflect from the topic at hand. Imagine me going up to people trying to raise awareness for breast cancer and bothering them asking them to focus on testicular cancer. It is a false dichotomy to act as though we must focus on one issue or the other. In this moment I am focusing on police violence, we can talk about the other stuff another time. Even furthermore, people that tend to bring up that phrase ignore that there actually are groups out there addressing that issue as we speak.
My post is not an over simplification of the issue, it's actually based in my own personal experiences, not media. That is one thing people will have to understand and stop thinking. Media is not the cause of this narrative, people's actual experiences are. I'll use myself for example. In my lifetime I have had guns pulled on me exactly 3x. Never has it been at the hands of a gang banger, never a robbery, never some kid trying to show off. Every single time it has been at the hands of a police officer. Never in the course of a crime. One time I was accused of speeding (in a car with a bad transmission that wouldn't go over 33), another time for a "suspended license" (which was not suspended), and finally the most recent time a few months ago for legally owning a gun. This is not media, this is my life, this is what I deal with on an everyday basis. When I speak to other people and they have similar stories such as mine, and I also see similar stories on the news, then I know how wide spread this is. At any moment, one of those officers could have "felt threatened" and ended my life legally. They would have posted one of my past mugshots from the "speeding" or "suspended license" on the news and talked about how I got sent to the deans office back in '97 as their justification for the shooting. They would have paid my family some sort of settlement eventually (Chicago has paid out over half a billion dollars the past decade), Lil Bones grows up without her father, and everyone moves on.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-with-an-unloaded-gun/?utm_term=.0cb4188b444b
The problem is our training. The article above is about an officer that got fired for not shooting an alleged "threat". We have somehow, in this country, accepted that a cop has MORE of a right to go home than anyone else. If this was not the case we wouldn't stand for these shootings. It is also not the case in other countries we pretend to be as civilized as (as shown by the article below)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ritish-officers-did-in-95-years-a6769316.html
You say that the offender should be prosecuted to the extent of the law, but you also admit that that system is broken (I agree). How does that even begin to work? So when I see things like the Walter Scott murder in South Carolina, and we know they falsified their reports, how can I even begin to think that the system has been working or will work? How many people have they shot and filled out false reports on before cell phones started capturing everything? How can I comply when the FBI puts out reports like this one below?
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/402521/doc-26-white-supremacist-infiltration.pdf
I will somewhat agree with you, this country has way too many people carrying guns, period. Policing is not an easy job at all. I never said it was and I wouldn't do it myself. Not everyone is suited to be patrolling the streets with lethal weapons and if you're scared you just can't be one of them. Personally, I think the wages need to rise substantially to better the pool of applicants (also you can't expect people to risk their lives for like 40k thats crazy), the training needs to be significantly improved, and there needs to be a no tolerance policy for breaking the law.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go celebrate my 25th again
Hey bones! Happy 25th again! I have been celebrating my 25th for 30 years. I hope we get a chance to discuss this topic (if you want) this month if JCHilltoppers invites me.
Only good topics at the dinner NNFAN, like Mila Kunis and how the Raiders become great again
Can we also talk about Keira Knightley and Natalie Portman? All three will be my wives in my next life. And I hear you guys have a good recruiting class on the way!Only good topics at the dinner NNFAN, like Mila Kunis and how the Raiders become great again
We actually brought in Jordan for recruiting... Even staged a sleepover like Harbaugh
Thanks for your thoughtful post. I did write my post in good faith and can fully appreciate your feelings as to having negative contacts with police officers. I have had negative contacts myself since I retired with a BB officer who I felt acted inappropriately and quite clearly harassed me even though I was simply parked reading a newspaper in a quiet spot after losing my wife of 45 years recently and didn't want to be in the house.
My original post was in response was your stating you were going to buy a AR (what I supposed meant an assault rifle) because of Trump being elected and as a result of spikes in hate crimes against minorities. I understand your apprehension at what is happening across the country and share it. But I know that the police are not the people committing the hate crimes. Are there bad cops? Certainly there are people who wear a badge who should never have been allowed to wear one in the first place. How they got on the job is the question people should be asking of their elected officials at all levels of government who I blame entirely for unqualified people in law enforcement. Lowering of standards, poor training, and terrible background checks are just some of the issues which come to mind from my experience but there are many more.
On the other hand I have worked with many fine police officers who gave up the lives in the line of duty protecting others. I have been at the scene of several of those police murders and many other non fatal injuries of police officers simply doing their job.
There is a lot of hatred in this country and a lot of it is directed towards the police. The anti-police narrative has been sensationalized nightly on the news when only one side of the story is played out in the media. There are so called witnesses on the news (who later disappear or later admit lying) telling viewers that the police officer shot someone for no reason at all. Michael Brown case is a clear example. Hands up trying to surrender doesn't fit with the forensic evidence but what does that matter to people who have an agenda that is anti-police. The fellow in Mt. Greenwood incident shown on video illegally carrying and opening pointing a weapon in the direction of others is another nightly news news story where so called witnesses obviously lied on camera to the news reporter.
Make no mistake, I have seen the McDonald case video and the video of the incident in South Carolina and immediately felt these officers did not do the right thing and some one was killed. That is what we have a criminal justice system for (to prosecute wrong doers) so we should let those incidents play out in court of law. Hopefully justice willl be served. Whether justice is served however is in the eye of the beholder as in the case of O.J. Simpson, the white guy who played Toma (can't remember the little fellas name), and many other cases of ill repute.
No one has more of a right to come home to their families when all is said and done. From a personal view I made it a priority that I was going to come home each night and sometimes it almost didn't happen regardless of whatever I did or was going to do. Without question one of the main issues I see in many (almost all) of these incidents is resisting the arrest either forcibly or by fleeing. No one in any state that I am aware of is authorized to resist a police officer and we wouldn't even be talking about this if people would simply comply with an officers instructions. Again if the officer(s) is wrong in his arrest there are remedies as you mentioned by suing or by complaint to his department. It certainly isn't worth dying over.
Anyway Bones, enjoy your 25th and give little Bones a hug for me.
Retired now thankfully but thank you anyway. Quite frankly I probably wrote less than four or five ticket books (25 tickets per book) in my career. Technically, any traffic stop could be considered an arrest however the speeder would be given a citation and allowed to continue. A physical arrest for speeding would only happen it the person speeding didn't have a drivers license to post as a guarantee to show up in court or had a warrant pending after a name check. Just speeding and no license the person would be brought into the station and allowed to post a cash bond with the desk person.
It's amazing King Edgy deleted my cousin after reading many of these post and nobody got touched.Oh well delete me too
Enjoy retirement, congrats!
Friends of mine who are on the job basically said what your experiences are...that people pulled over for speeding are not arrested solely for speeding, but because of some other reason. The one friend of mine said only one time did he have to arrest a speeder and that's because after he handed the ticket she ripped it up and threw it at his feet. I only hope Bones wasn't this dumb when he had a gun drawn on him and was arrested for speeding.
Stay safe, nothing in this world is worse than a girl growing up without their father.
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Appreciate the thoughtful response.
Yes, my main concern is the spike in hate crimes. While obviously you cannot blame the president elect for these people's existence, he certainly woo'd them, gave them a platform, and emboldened them to slither out from under their rocks like this chitownace character.
I am sorry to hear about your wife and that had you had that experience with the BB officer. Part of the reason I remain here is because of the police force, the obvious notwithstanding (Peterson). I never felt harassed here, which is in stark contrast to some of the surrounding towns. Like you I have parked in quiet spots to get away (it was easier to escape back when I was down in Bloomington/Normal, not so easy in the burbs) and have had my tranquility interrupted.
I certainly sympathize with you on witnessing killings and non-fatal interactions alike. Like I said in my previous post it's a difficult job, one that I wouldn't be willing to do. So those that do it well are to be commended even more so. And I know it can't be easy dealing with people like me, I know I can be confrontational when being treated less than how I should be. But that comes from an area of frustration. The training that we both mentioned I think should involve a lot of instruction on de-escalation, it seems to me that would resolve a lot of these altercations.
The issue Gene, IMO, is that there really is no remedy. If people felt the justice system was working the frustration wouldn't be what it is. As you obviously know police and DA's work hand and hand everyday to get convictions. So, when that same prosecutor is tasked with bringing charges and prosecuting what is essentially their coworker I am sure you can understand my, and many people's skepticism on how hard they actually try for a conviction. When we get reports saying that a lot of these shootings ruled justifiable actually are coerced if not forced it only strengthens the distrust of the system.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tor-lawsuit-dismissed-met-20160210-story.html
If you will for a moment think about this. You can google actual pictures of lynchings, people taking pictures of themselves with the charred remains of people--men, women, and children smiling in the joyous occasion. Clearly if they were willing to take a picture at the scene of these heinous crimes then they were not concerned with being policed. This is our history. Police have historically flat out not done their jobs, period. Yes, different time period, but really not by too much, and if no one can give me a date as to when that practice of inaction changed, then I have no reason to believe then it is not still going on today at least in some cases. Especially when I see it going on today. This history is something that our police forces have to work actively to overcome, even though you weren't around in that era because we don't live life in a vacuum and people have memories and know history.
As far as a media hate campaign directed at police. I don't see it that way. It is news. Sometimes the news can tease out certain emotions, but you don't expect them to not cover these stories? The witnesses are the witnesses, nothing they can do about that. I didn't read about the Michael Brown case so I don't know the details of what was discovered. I do know that the DOJ said that that police force regularly violated constitutional rights. That is systematic and goes beyond Michael Brown.
In the end, it's going to take the good ones to force the bad one's to reform or leave and not the other way around. Right now I think it's fair to say that it has reached a boiling point and people are frustrated and acting out. That frustration is leading to good people dying and I don't think anyone wants that. As MLK Jr put it, "A riot is the language of the unheard."
Thanks for your kind remarks about my late wife. What I was trying to point out in my incident with BB PD is that many people have encounters with the police which are negative in context. Sometimes officers don't act the way we all would like them to but the vast majority of them do act professionally and with compassion. By the way, BB does have a very good PD not withstanding Peterson who I know for a fact was not liked by very many of his fellow officers.
Clearly, officers should try to defuse a situation in most cases but realistically that is not possible in many incidents especially when a person is physically challenging an officer during an arrest situation. My first thought when confronting such an aggressive individual was "Does he have a weapon?" and what do I do next. I have personally taken two guns off an individual who was resisting my arrest. Thankfully, I had a partner to help me subdue him. Found out later he had just committed an armed robbery which wasn't reported yet.
I had the fortunate experience of having a black superior officer who was a mentor and also like a father to me. I know he made me a better police officer but more importantly I liked to think a better human being. He also showed me some things which black people face every day such as bad food being sold in a grocery, and different prices for the same item in a black neighborhood compared to a white neighborhood. Opened my eyes a lot. I don't know if this type of mentoring is going on now in PDs across the country but it should be.
Interestingly enough, at least in Cook County, I didn't find the type of relationship with the prosecutors you envision. I found that the felony review section was more interested in convictions than justice. Numerous officers have had situations where they were looking out for the victim a lot more than the attorneys when it came to charging an individual. Flat out lowering of the charges so that a conviction is more probable and then lea bargaining in court to a lesser charge still. Where's the justice for the victims.
Certainly there is historical evidence to back up what has happened with the lynchings, beatings, etc., to blacks and other minorities. Historically, which ever group was in the minority in this country have suffered at the hands of the majority at that time. Slavery, slum housing, sweatshops, and much worst is the history of our country. There can be no excuse for any of it and unfortunately people in authority many times allowed it to happen. The only hope for this country is for people to move forward from the past and not cast such a wide net over people different from themselves.
That is why sports in this country and in particular youth and high school athletics offer the young people whom we care about the chance to play with and against people of various backgrounds.
MLK also said not to judge people by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I believe he was including law enforcement personnel in that statement. Not to judge the police by the color of their uniform but by the content of their character
I have given you examples of your lies. You choose not to listen or read and comprehend and TRUST me, if we were face-to-face I'd have no problem saying it.
I have cited a post in a thread in which you called people racist and another in which you called a poster a slave owner. How many times do you need to be told things before they sink into that thick skull of yours?
If I am obsessed with anything, it's calling out liars and hypocrites and you are both.
If you want to keep calling me a bully, I will continue to tell you to get your crayon box out and start coloring. Then sculpt some things with your play doh.
Just the idea that you don't know the actual statistics tells me how naive and one-sided you are. You need to get facts and opinions from all sides. Then maybe you will have a more valid opinion.
[QUOTE="MC63, post: 119645, member: 38
Cite an actual post where I called someone a racist. Otherwise, have the integrity to be quiet.[/QUOTE]
Do yourself a favor and don't lecture anyone about integrity because you have none. Liars and hypocrites have no integrity.
Cite an actual post where I called someone a racist. Otherwise, have the integrity to be quiet.[/QUOTE]
Do yourself a favor and don't lecture anyone about integrity because you have none. Liars and hypocrites have no integrity.
Generality after generality after generality. Again, you haven't provided anything specific to back-up your claims. BTW, two of your more loyal minions (Newt and Brin) are engaged in a hissy fit on the Fenwick/ Oak Park thread. If they continue arguing with each other, they might reconsider their blind loyalty to you. You can't allow dissension.
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You are like a 5 year old child. I did back it up. You wrote what you wrote and you know it. I read it and would have no reason to quote it if wasn't true. I am not a liar and a hypocrite...you are. Liar....hypocrite.
As for the other two, they are big boys. They can handle it themselves. I don't need to watch over them like you do. They don't lie like you do and they aren't hypocrites like you either. They may disagree with each other on some topics. But one thing they agree on is that neither cares for you and your small-mindedness.
By the way, I am thoroughly, thoroughly enjoying the liberal meltdown since Nov, 8th, you included. Tons of fun and I get to do this for the next few years too!
MC 63, You need to do yourself a huge favor and walk away from the board for several days because you have completely lost it.
I have said for years that liberals are nutty people and they really go off the deep end when they see power slipping away politically. You are the embodiment of that statement. Just walk away for a while.
I have said for years that liberals are nutty people and they really go off the deep end when they see power slipping away politically. You are the embodiment of that statement. Just walk away for a while.
Why do you always write two responses? Is your confidence level that low?
Again, generality after generality. Nothing specific, just your "memories" of what was said. BTW, as I've said, I don't deny that I might have called someone a racist. That guy was. I don't believe I've ever called anyone a slave owner. I might have said he has the mentality of a slave owner - because that guy did.
Remember, neither you nor any of your minions has given an honest response to "how did you justify voting for Trump to your daughter?" (One guy did tell his daughter that "men lie.")
I survived eight years of W, I can survive this guy.
Again, generality after generality. Nothing specific, just your "memories" of what was said. BTW, as I've said, I don't deny that I might have called someone a racist. That guy was. I don't believe I've ever called anyone a slave owner. I might have said he has the mentality of a slave owner - because that guy did.
Remember, neither you nor any of your minions has given an honest response to "how did you justify voting for Trump to your daughter?" (One guy did tell his daughter that "men lie.")
I survived eight years of W, I can survive this guy.
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I don't understand what a lack of confidence would have to do with anyone making more than one post about something. If so, you better check your posts from time to time because you do the same thing. What's new? The guy is lecturing someone about behavior he displays himself.
I gave you the thread in which you called people racist. I also pointed out the time you called another poster a slave owner. Like I said before, I have no reason to say these things happened if they didn't . I don't play those games. You might, but I don't.
It's not a matter of whether you "might" have. Either you did or you didn't...and you did. If a cop pulled you over for running a red light would you say, "gee officer, I might have." Either you did or you didn't.
And in thinking about it further, this response is something I would expect from a 3rd grader. In a sense you are saying, "I may have called him a racist, but he made me do it." Just own up to it and take responsibility. Tell the truth once here. Just because you call someone a racist, it doesn't make him one. And who said you get to decide what is racist and who is racist? Same thing when it comes to the slave owner crack. You said it and you know it. Then you try and justify it by saying he had that mentality. Who said you get to decide that?
This all comes back to my initial claim that you do the same thing you lecture the rest of us about when it comes to civility on this board. You are nothing but a snob because you think you are above everyone else here. And you are a liar and a hypocrite too.
Just tell the truth. It is not a good idea for people to be lying and showing hypocrisy as we all get older and get closer to meeting our maker.
The Trump thing is a diversion on your part to change the subject. Stick to what we are saying here. You want to talk about it we can do it face-to-face. A meeting to answer YOUR question earlier of whether I'd call you a liar to your face or not. And what I say and don't say to my daughter is none of your business anyway.
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You believe that you can repeat a lie over and over again, and it will be taken as the truth.
You bellow and blether, and some guys are impressed. Not me. I can see right through you.
Try bullying someone who cares.
Go get your crayon box and start coloring. Liar, hypocrite. Actually it is you who thinks he can keep telling a lie in hopes of it becoming the truth. It is obvious you went to the Bill and Hillary school of lying.
It isn't working. Liar, hypocrite.
