Thoughts on 4A?
- Thread starter EdgyTim
- Start date
Johnsburg
Herscher
Both should be in the mix, but Johnsburg is better than Herscher.
Herscher
Both should be in the mix, but Johnsburg is better than Herscher.
Herscher's enrollment has dropped under 530, which has them now in the I-8 small for the last year of the current I-8, and likely makes them 3A...They lost a ton, but opening up with traditional rivals in 2A Clifton Central and 2A Momence (who should be a monster in 2A led by Bargy, a Minnesota signee) along with R/C should give them enough to make the playoffs in 3A...
I-8 Large will be interesting for its last year...Lots of people seem to think highly of Streator after making the playoffs last year, but I question a 5A school in a 4A conference who made the playoffs at 5-4 without beating a team with a record better than 3-6...I just don't see them jumping to the I-8 lead...Nonetheless, the Bulldogs likely make the playoffs again...
Sandwich was consistent for years, but they have been bad since they changed coaches and systems about 5 years ago - dumping the double wing for a run oriented spread...The years of Sandwich-Wilmington games taking an hour and 15 minutes are over...lol...I don't see a change...playoffs very unlikely...
Plano was bad forever, and then the great class came in with Nick Nasti & friends to win back to back titles...they just don't seem to strike the fear that they did five years ago...playoffs unlikely...
Manteno returns its QB Warren, and the line will likely be their best line in three years or so...One of their lineman's dad played at Nebraska, and he will be a second year starter as a junior this fall...They should be able to go back to a traditional spread and avoid the QB in the empty backfield the Panthers have been forced to resort to as their primary formation the last couple years...As long as Warren is not their leading rusher, they should challenge Coal City for the conference title...
Coal City should be the overwhelming favorite, assuming they get through weeks 1 & 2 with Morris and at Wilmington without major calamity...They return their starting QB, the coaches son, who has already committed to pitch for Illinois (kind of reminds me of Tanner Roark). They could easily start 0-2 and make the playoffs at 7-2...And if Morris and Rochelle end up in 5A, the Coalers could be a big threat in 4A north....IC having to go to Coal City could be real interesting, given IC's problems playing on grass in November...
Who else? Obviously in the north, IC up a class is still dangerous. Big Ten quality ballhanders in 4A are hard to deal with...McNamara will probably return to the playoffs, but don't expect too deep of a run...
In the south? Rochester is king until knocked off...Althoff sounds pretty good...
Sandwich was consistent for years, but they have been bad since they changed coaches and systems about 5 years ago - dumping the double wing for a run oriented spread...The years of Sandwich-Wilmington games taking an hour and 15 minutes are over...lol...I don't see a change...playoffs very unlikely...
Plano was bad forever, and then the great class came in with Nick Nasti & friends to win back to back titles...they just don't seem to strike the fear that they did five years ago...playoffs unlikely...
Manteno returns its QB Warren, and the line will likely be their best line in three years or so...One of their lineman's dad played at Nebraska, and he will be a second year starter as a junior this fall...They should be able to go back to a traditional spread and avoid the QB in the empty backfield the Panthers have been forced to resort to as their primary formation the last couple years...As long as Warren is not their leading rusher, they should challenge Coal City for the conference title...
Coal City should be the overwhelming favorite, assuming they get through weeks 1 & 2 with Morris and at Wilmington without major calamity...They return their starting QB, the coaches son, who has already committed to pitch for Illinois (kind of reminds me of Tanner Roark). They could easily start 0-2 and make the playoffs at 7-2...And if Morris and Rochelle end up in 5A, the Coalers could be a big threat in 4A north....IC having to go to Coal City could be real interesting, given IC's problems playing on grass in November...
Who else? Obviously in the north, IC up a class is still dangerous. Big Ten quality ballhanders in 4A are hard to deal with...McNamara will probably return to the playoffs, but don't expect too deep of a run...
In the south? Rochester is king until knocked off...Althoff sounds pretty good...
Althoff may limp into the playoffs 5-4 - or come out unbeaten. Have no clue.
But I do know they return some decent skill players - both QBs. One a bruising runner and a senior and the other is a slinging junior - completely different looks when each is in the game. Help or hurt? Not sure - but my guess is each would stay on the field when the other was at the helm.
The linebackers and DBs will be VERY GOOD, especially the corp of junior LBs.
Not sure about their lines - but full contact 7-on-7, we'd be lights out!
Title goes through Rochester from the southern bracket until proven otherwise.
I'll repurpose this post from another place:
Where do Rochester players come from?
Using MaxPreps data, I took the rosters from 2015-2018 and sorted. EXCLUDING players demarked as freshmen - and there are many - I see there are 21 kids new to the roster. Note also there are 12 freshmen demarked as such on the 2018 roster.
Some very well might be freshmen, but it raised my eyebrows.
I don’t know much about Rochester other than they win, but unintentional recruiting by having a great program is a real thing. If you are a stud player at a school with a bad team and want to win it makes perfect sense to move into a district with a great team. You will generate more college looks and have more fun when you actually win. Also there are cases of separated parents or parents moving closer to their job which causes athletes to relocate.
Is it illegal, technically no. Is it ethical, that’s up to you.....
Which is why public schools should be subject to the success factor.
Look man if it’s legal it’s ethical. However, I think where your concern really lies is in morals, so morals tends to lean into the bailiwick of the private Christian schools so I understand why some of the public guys may not get it.
Since football and schools are business, and business is about ethics not morals, as long as it’s legal there shouldn’t be an issue for publics and privates; and hence, everyone is on the same level playing field. All said, if there is a success penalty for privates there should be the like for publics. Welcome to being forced to move up Rochester.
Since football and schools are business, and business is about ethics not morals, as long as it’s legal there shouldn’t be an issue for publics and privates; and hence, everyone is on the same level playing field. All said, if there is a success penalty for privates there should be the like for publics. Welcome to being forced to move up Rochester.
Don’t quite get that nickname but I meant are you serious about the if it’s legal it’s ethical comment.....I’m not against public school success factor.
Yes absolutely, ethics In today’s secular world has been separated from what is was conceived from in the term ethos. In its most classical definition ethics and morals are co-mingled and perhaps almost interchangeable. However, when we came to the moments of “ it depends on what is, is” and “well we need to see is there is any there, there” the two became completely disengaged from each other.
Ethics are the laws that define the societal norm, while Morals defines the man and what he stands for.
Ethics are the laws that define the societal norm, while Morals defines the man and what he stands for.
Not sure I agree still but we don’t have to. So let’s say I’m a coach and I start my friends kid over your kid even though your kid is slightly better. Completely legal for me to choose my team as I see fit however it would be unethical of me to do so.
I think there's a confusion here, @jwarigaku is actually giving you the philosophical definitions of what ethics are and what morals are, which he is 100% right (from what I remember from my ethics class in college), and the problem is people actually misuse the term ethics or ethical, when they really are meaning morals or moral. So in this case Wilma you really mean that morally you don't think it's right despite not breaking the law. Jwar am I right in explaining this?
LKhammer, Spot on in today’s world. Going back in time ethics and morals were really used almost interchangeably.
Wilmatucky, in your example it’s ethical because it’s certainly within the rules and your rights as a coach. However, it is an illogical and immoral choice because you put the team at a disadvantage twice, once by playing the weaker player, and a second time by risking an ethical transfer of the student athlete from the program.
The decision that you make as the coach lends to your character and your moral code, but the choice passes muster in today’s secular ethics challenge.
Wilmatucky, in your example it’s ethical because it’s certainly within the rules and your rights as a coach. However, it is an illogical and immoral choice because you put the team at a disadvantage twice, once by playing the weaker player, and a second time by risking an ethical transfer of the student athlete from the program.
The decision that you make as the coach lends to your character and your moral code, but the choice passes muster in today’s secular ethics challenge.
Hurting my shoulder to pat my own back ...
I coached house soccer - this was U12 aged. The biggest turd on the team "hurt her feet" early in the year - did not return for a practice or game. (She just did not like running.)
So who shows up for the championship game and wanting to play? The turd!
I wrestled with this for a few minutes - decided I'd play her the required half of the game. She totally hurt us and we lost by a goal.
I rationalized that the rules are rules - if we win and I did not follow them, it's cheating. But I was actually cheating my dedicated team, but morally, I could not bring myself to tell this child - pushed by her parents - she was not a part of the team.
I coached house soccer - this was U12 aged. The biggest turd on the team "hurt her feet" early in the year - did not return for a practice or game. (She just did not like running.)
So who shows up for the championship game and wanting to play? The turd!
I wrestled with this for a few minutes - decided I'd play her the required half of the game. She totally hurt us and we lost by a goal.
I rationalized that the rules are rules - if we win and I did not follow them, it's cheating. But I was actually cheating my dedicated team, but morally, I could not bring myself to tell this child - pushed by her parents - she was not a part of the team.
Not how I understand ethics. The way I understand it is that they are a moral code to a particular field. So for example as a claims adjuster there is nothing illegal about adjusting a friend or family member's claim, but it may be unethical due to what may be perceived as bias.
Or @lkhammer57 is an attorney I believe. It would be unethical for a prosecutor to prosecute the case of a family member or a judge to preside over the case of a family member even though it's legal.
Morality, at least how I define it, is based on harm caused (or well being) but is entirely based on circumstance.
Or @lkhammer57 is an attorney I believe. It would be unethical for a prosecutor to prosecute the case of a family member or a judge to preside over the case of a family member even though it's legal.
Morality, at least how I define it, is based on harm caused (or well being) but is entirely based on circumstance.
While I do wish I had the income of a lawyer, I am about 3 years worth of law school credits short of being a lawyer! I'm just a fundraiser and football coach at a local private high school. I won't say for the my sake, but if you follow on what I post about, I'm sure you can guess my alma mater or my employer (hint: they are different)
See this is how I thought of it. I just couldn’t explain it. Too many head shots lol.
Ethics is basically the law for your particular society or job or position. Whatever you wanna call it.
Ah yes! Get a public school in the Chicago CATHOLIC League. While I realize this may be in just, it's still superbly nonsensical .
anyway back on topic....4a is going to be a lot of fun to watch. Might try to catch some of the north playoff games. Cc Morris could meet again in playoffs. Would love to see IC against some tougher competition.
I find the analysis that families decide to change school districts after freshman year because of sports to be a bit of a slight-of-hand. Does it happen? Yes. But people move all the time to switch school districts, often for reasons far less politically correct than sports (academics, student body demographics, personalities).
If I have a kid that plays the violin, do you fault me for moving to a district that has an orchestra instead of just a basic band? If my kid is into theatre, do you fault me for moving to a district that values fine arts, has multiple plays/musicals per year, and an auditorium instead of a stage on the end of the gym? If my kid plays hockey/lacrosse/badminton, do you question if I move to a district that plays those?
Rochester has, in my opinion, hugely benefitted from leaving the Corn Belt and going to the CS8...Trading the 3 Springfield public schools, SHG & Chatham Glenwood for Herscher, Pontiac, IVC & Prairie Central saves massive amounts of travel time, so parents of athletes are more likely to work in Springfield and still be able to watch their kids play, making the district more desirable for those parents (and its not just football they are good at). And plenty of state government employees are probably choosing to move there rather than send their kids to SHG or the 3 publics. Would we be having this conversation if families were choosing Chatham Glenwood, on the 5A/6A edge, instead of Rochester? Was Riverton, when Mike Tisdale was dunking for them, subject to the criticism? Pleasant Plains, on the other side of Springfield, went to the title game as a 16 seed last fall...
In theory, you want to work where you live. But lets say you get a job at the Exelon Power Plant in Braidwood, and your kid is a stud football player. You have five school districts within 10 minutes of work...Reed Custer, Coal City, Wilmington, Herscher, and Gardner South Wilmington. You cross RC off the list because they stink at football. Gardner, cooping with Dwight, is pretty awful as well, so they get cut. If your kid is a QB or WR, Wilmo gets cut because of the double wing; Herscher probably wins over CC because they run the spread. If your kid is a RB, probably Wilmo wins...CC will get its share.
But what if your kid's favorite track event is the pole vault...suddenly RC jumps to the lead because of their fieldhouse/indoor track and history of success in the event...If orchestra is important, Herscher jumps to the lead...wrestling, Wilmington & CC jump to the lead...GSW likely has difficulty competing...
I wish I could see that. But I think I’m gonna stay local....unless they play that Saturday?
I know it happens for many reasons. I don’t care if it does happen. People are free to live where they please. I was just saying it does happen. Our very own Wilmo has had it happen several times as well. Did those kids move in just for football? Don’t care. Not my business.
Bones,
Adjusting an insurance claim is insurance fraud ie unethical and illegal. So at least we understand your ethical limits now.
Adjusting an insurance claim is insurance fraud ie unethical and illegal. So at least we understand your ethical limits now.
You seem to be confused. Have you lived this long and never heard of an INSURANCE ADJUSTER?
Yes Bones I’ve heard of an insurance adjuster but to adjust the quote outside of the reasonable and customary charge is simply Insurance Fraud. I have also heard of using professional Independent adjusters to appeal a claim used by both the insured and insurer. That said if you artificially inflate a claim to cover the deductible or fix additional items not caused by the incident it is insurance fraud which crosses both the legal and ethical line in business.
Is that clear enough for you?
Our bet the other year and your refusal to pay may cross the moral line but doesn’t cross the ethical line. See another common example of how you separate things in your mind. That is to say ethics are defined by the law, where morals define the man! Have a great evening.
Is that clear enough for you?
Our bet the other year and your refusal to pay may cross the moral line but doesn’t cross the ethical line. See another common example of how you separate things in your mind. That is to say ethics are defined by the law, where morals define the man! Have a great evening.
You are confused. I suspected it, and your posts confirmed it, neither do you know what ethics and morality are, nor do you have them.
Bones,
Don’t try to use the Red ball Blue ball nonsense. Please give me a detailed list of where I’m in err and explain why. Simply saying something over and over does not make it true.
Don’t try to use the Red ball Blue ball nonsense. Please give me a detailed list of where I’m in err and explain why. Simply saying something over and over does not make it true.
I already explained what ethics are, you tried twice and failed. You simply don't know what they are.
Bones,
You explained what YOU think ethics are. You’re getting like that guy from Herscher. Let’s try Ethics Morals and the Law explained by Dr. Arturo Perez.
“If you are ethical you can abide the law. If you are Moral you can be ethical. Also, if you are moral you can abide the law. But you can never be all of three together.
Morality governs private, personal interactions. Ethics governs professional interactions. Law governs society as a whole, often dealing with interactions between total strangers.
Some people talk about their personal ethics, others talk about a set of morals and everyone in a society is governed by the same set of laws. If the law conflicts with our personal values or a moral system, we have to act – but to do so we need to be able to tell the difference between them.
Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual's own principles regarding right and wrong.
Morals and Law differ because the law demands an absolute subjection to its rules and commands. Law has enforcing authority derived from the state. It is heteronymous (being imposed upon men upon the outer life of men). Law regulates men’s relations with others and with society.”
You explained what YOU think ethics are. You’re getting like that guy from Herscher. Let’s try Ethics Morals and the Law explained by Dr. Arturo Perez.
“If you are ethical you can abide the law. If you are Moral you can be ethical. Also, if you are moral you can abide the law. But you can never be all of three together.
Morality governs private, personal interactions. Ethics governs professional interactions. Law governs society as a whole, often dealing with interactions between total strangers.
Some people talk about their personal ethics, others talk about a set of morals and everyone in a society is governed by the same set of laws. If the law conflicts with our personal values or a moral system, we have to act – but to do so we need to be able to tell the difference between them.
Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual's own principles regarding right and wrong.
Morals and Law differ because the law demands an absolute subjection to its rules and commands. Law has enforcing authority derived from the state. It is heteronymous (being imposed upon men upon the outer life of men). Law regulates men’s relations with others and with society.”
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