Thoughts on 4A?

[Cross Bones]

I think I see the source of your confusion with the insurance example, it likely stems from your ignorance of even common terms like "adjust". You have mistakenly confused the word "adjust" to mean wrongfully change. When in actuality the term is synonymous with "handle" so when I said it would be unethical but not illegal to adjust a family member or friend's claim you went into your mind, ripe for conspiracy theory, and thought fraud where any normal person would know what was said and meant.

You again fail in your third attempt at explaining ethics, morals, and law abiding. It most certainly is possible to be all 3 at once. The fact you would argue against it likely shows either unethical, immorality, or unlawfulness (or some combination of the 3) in your life.

Now certainly there are times when they will conflict. Say for example during the CRM, you previously admitted to not acting, choosing to sit on the sideline, which was not illegal and in some cases probably the legal action. However, it would call into question your morality.

 

[Wilmatucky]

Thank you bones for your assist. I didn’t have the time, motivation, or articulation yesterday to explain my thoughts. You hit it spot on though.

 

[jwarigaku]

Bones,

Regarding the insurance discussion most people would refer to the insurance adjuster “processing” the claim as opposed to “adjusting” the claim when referring to the actual estimate of damages; but in technical terms you are correct. That said, I would hope that the “adjuster” would have the ethics and morals to proceed with an honest estimate regardless of the insured party’s relation.

You can say what you like about my definition of ethics vs morals, but what I quoted was from Dr. Arturo Perez. Yes there are rare occasions where Ethics, Morals, and the Law all intersect( as in your example above), but more oft, at least one is in conflict with the other two.

I think I see the source of your confusion with the insurance example, it likely stems from your ignorance of even common terms like "adjust". You have mistakenly confused the word "adjust" to mean wrongfully change. When in actuality the term is synonymous with "handle" so when I said it would be unethical but not illegal to adjust a family member or friend's claim you went into your mind, ripe for conspiracy theory, and thought fraud where any normal person would know what was said and meant.

You again fail in your third attempt at explaining ethics, morals, and law abiding. It most certainly is possible to be all 3 at once. The fact you would argue against it likely shows either unethical, immorality, or unlawfulness (or some combination of the 3) in your life.

Now certainly there are times when they will conflict. Say for example during the CRM, you previously admitted to not acting, choosing to sit on the sideline, which was not illegal and in some cases probably the legal action. However, it would call into question your morality.

 

[25sparky]

Discussing morals and ethics on Edgy's Board...sigh...are the good times really over for good.

 

[jwarigaku]

It is only the preseason and Bones hasn’t gotten to sandbagging yet!

Discussing morals and ethics on Edgy's Board...sigh...are the good times really over for good.

 

[Cross Bones]

It is only the preseason and Bones hasn’t gotten to sandbagging yet!

I think it's accepted 6-3 is the ceiling this year.

 

[jwarigaku]

Bones, that may be as bullish as I’ve seen you here since 2010.

I think it's accepted 6-3 is the ceiling this year.

 

[Marine HMX1]

I'll repurpose this post from another place:

Where do Rochester players come from?

Using MaxPreps data, I took the rosters from 2015-2018 and sorted. EXCLUDING players demarked as freshmen - and there are many - I see there are 21 kids new to the roster. Note also there are 12 freshmen demarked as such on the 2018 roster.

Some very well might be freshmen, but it raised my eyebrows.

As someone who has coached ALL of the Rochester team since 7th grade I can tell you that we have a total of 5 kids on the team who didn't play in the JFL program. Two transferred from out of state because their parents were relocated by employers, one from SHG for personal reasons not involving sports, one from out of conference due to parents relocating for work, and one from SHS that had nothing to due with Rochester and probably isn't the best of our possible starters. We average 2 transfers a year in 13 years. Over 95% of our kids have been together since 2nd grade. We have 2 kids in the freshman class who didn't play JFL but have lived in Rochester their entire lives and never played football before. We don't recruit, we don't need to recruit.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

As someone who has coached ALL of the Rochester team since 7th grade I can tell you that we have a total of 5 kids on the team who didn't play in the JFL program. Two transferred from out of state because their parents were relocated by employers, one from SHG for personal reasons not involving sports, one from out of conference due to parents relocating for work, and one from SHS that had nothing to due with Rochester and probably isn't the best of our possible starters. We average 2 transfers a year in 13 years. Over 95% of our kids have been together since 2nd grade. We have 2 kids in the freshman class who didn't play JFL but have lived in Rochester their entire lives and never played football before. We don't recruit, we don't need to recruit.

Any thoughts within the program about petitioning up to challenge yourselves as Phillips and ESL have done and are doing?

 

[Marine HMX1]

That's above my paygrade. We coach the kids from our town and we play whatever the IHSA tells us to play in. We don't seek attention or recognition, just making sure the kids are having fun and getting chances to further their education. All that other stuff like talking crap, tv shows, and seeking attention is for others to choose.

 

[cornerrat]

All.... There is nothing wrong with Rochester to continue being the Class "4A" king of high school football. Ratsy

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

All.... There is nothing wrong with Rochester to continue being the Class "4A" king of high school football. Ratsy

Never said there was.

Merely asked a question.

Some people/coaches/programs want to test themselves and push themselves to the limits;....,and of course there are other people/coaches/programs that do not or don’t want that and that is fine.

I kinda equate it to the travel soccer that is very prevelant around the Chicagoland area. Local Travel teams that dominate a certain class tend to move up in class to hopefully get better competition for the following reasons:
1. To hopefully have more competitive games
2. So their players can grow and get better instead of just running over weaker teams (they don’t have to develop their skills to win the games)

When a team gets to the top level - some teams move up in age group and/or some teams will look to regional leagues like the MRL to obtain additional competition that pushes them to grow. The really really good teams move to a national league to add competition (but massive additional travel and cost). When a team reaches a good spot where they are winning but not blowing people out and maybe even lose a game or two - that is a good equilibrium and normally they stop there.

I was wonderIng why the really good teams and programs in the lower enrollment classes don’t do some of this? The good privates are required to move up so they don’t have a choice in the matter. The public schools do have the luxury of choice. Several have made the choice to move up. Others have not and I was curious as to why. Forreston is another smaller enrollment school that looks like their program could move up if they desired it. There are not a lot of programs that could do it - but in my opinion there are a few that should at least consider it.

 

[cornerrat]

Never said there was.

Merely asked a question.

Some people/coaches/programs want to test themselves and push themselves to the limits;....,and of course there are other people/coaches/programs that do not or don’t want that and that is fine.

I kinda equate it to the travel soccer that is very prevelant around the Chicagoland area. Local Travel teams that dominate a certain class tend to move up in class to hopefully get better competition for the following reasons:
1. To hopefully have more competitive games
2. So their players can grow and get better instead of just running over weaker teams (they don’t have to develop their skills to win the games)

When a team gets to the top level - some teams move up in age group and/or some teams will look to regional leagues like the MRL to obtain additional competition that pushes them to grow. The really really good teams move to a national league to add competition (but massive additional travel and cost). When a team reaches a good spot where they are winning but not blowing people out and maybe even lose a game or two - that is a good equilibrium and normally they stop there.

I was wonderIng why the really good teams and programs in the lower enrollment classes don’t do some of this? The good privates are required to move up so they don’t have a choice in the matter. The public schools do have the luxury of choice. Several have made the choice to move up. Others have not and I was curious as to why. Forreston is another smaller enrollment school that looks like their program could move up if they desired it. There are not a lot of programs that could do it - but in my opinion there are a few that should at least consider it.

All.... You are talking to an SHG guy, you won't get an argument from me. My response was for the Rochester coach. (lol) I tend to roll my eyes when I start hearing about programs that have had good runs and posters speculate how a particular team would do in a higher class.

One of my favorites from another forum board was a subject thread on how the Rockets would do against the superman led Prairie Ridge champion. Now this board is heavily laden with with small ball (1A-4A) posters. I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised that more often then not most opinions picked Rochester over PR. Would like to know how many in that group has watched upper class football.

The one thing I have noticed with SHG playing in 6A is that it is not enough to have a stud squad on both sides of the line. You had better have a second wave of big and talented players with decent speed awaiting if you want to make a deep run. And I can't even imagine what 7A and 8A ball would bring.... Ratsy

 

[EdgyTim]

All.... You are talking to an SHG guy, you won't get an argument from me. My response was for the Rochester coach. (lol) I tend to roll my eyes when I start hearing about programs that have had good runs and posters speculate how a particular team would do in a higher class.

One of my favorites from another forum board was a subject thread on how the Rockets would do against the superman led Prairie Ridge champion. Now this board is heavily laden with with small ball (1A-4A) posters. I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised that more often then not most opinions picked Rochester over PR. Would like to know how many in that group has watched upper class football.

The one thing I have noticed with SHG playing in 6A is that it is not enough to have a stud squad on both sides of the line. You had better have a second wave of big and talented players with decent speed awaiting if you want to make a deep run. And I can't even imagine what 7A and 8A ball would bring.... Ratsy

I'll add on SHG that when they won state titles....they were definitely a pass first offense and the passing game was so potent at times (aka sorta like Rochester) that opposing defenses didn't focus much on the run....I haven't really seen the same caliber of spread passing attack since the 2013-14 teams with Gabe Green. Is that just me or...

 

[cornerrat]

All.... I'm going to be very careful on my uneducated opinion on last years team as well as the future.

Having two obvious D1 runners last year as well as having a qb that can throw well.... created unique issues.

Now both rb's were playing on and off injured last year but that story is for another day. When a team can throw with little or no defensive response it's a slam dunk. I would of loved five wide in the air with those two rb's catching passes wreaking havoc. Not that SHG didn't have a good run/pass mixture but I would of liked throwing a bit more with that group.

This year the Cyclones have a big talented line on both sides. Running the ball likely will be first but a team needs to be able to win though the air in those tight games when yards on the ground aren't happening. Throwing the ball throughout the season is imperative regardless of the score early or late. My two cents worth.... Ratsy

 

[crusader_of_90]

All.... I'm going to be very careful on my uneducated opinion on last years team as well as the future.

Having two obvious D1 runners last year as well as having a qb that can throw well.... created unique issues.

Now both rb's were playing on and off injured last year but that story is for another day. When a team can throw with little or no defensive response it's a slam dunk. I would of loved five wide in the air with those two rb's catching passes wreaking havoc. Not that SHG didn't have a good run/pass mixture but I would of liked throwing a bit more with that group.

This year the Cyclones have a big talented line on both sides. Running the ball likely will be first but a team needs to be able to win though the air in those tight games when yards on the ground aren't happening. Throwing the ball throughout the season is imperative regardless of the score early or late. My two cents worth.... Ratsy

I blame special teams!

 

[crusader_of_90]

It's been in play longer but this thread has more hits/posts than the bigger classes.

To me, that's enough reason Rochester should request to play up ... but at the same time, I want them beaten in 4A. Such a quandary!

 

[crusader_of_90]

IC Coach is a Sangbag Master:
"Let me title your article: 'Not even in Rochester and Althoff's league,'" offered ICCP coach Bill Krefft, a member of Knights state championship teams as a player (2002), assistant coach (2008) and head coach.


https://football.dailyherald.com/sp...-this-season-for-dupage-county-football-teams

 

[crusader_of_90]

This is Week 2 after IC.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/hig...cle_6617e400-a26b-11e8-9be2-af73376d8090.html

Turner must think Althoff will have a good team.

 

[Cat Box]

Ah yes! Get a public school in the Chicago CATHOLIC League. While I realize this may be in just, it's still superbly nonsensical .

Hey PowerI66...
ICCP is a Catholic school.
Rochester is in the Springfield metro area - so no one would suggest they join the Chicago Catholic league (due to geography in addition to not being a private school).

 

[Cat Box]

IC vs Rochester for the title.

Need to get them to the CCL.

Wassup13,

I generally agree with 99% of what you put out here. But not this. Why on earth would IC leave the Metro Suburban for the Catholic League? Especially after AC, Francis and Bmac LEFT the CCL? In the Metro, ICCP has:

• more "traditional/historic" conference games (old WSC/SCC)
• geographically more desirable vs. CCL
• opponents with more similar enrollment sizes

In the CCL, schools the enrollment size of ICCP are terrible football schools. Does ICCP belong in the CCL Red? Of course not. ICCP would have to go in the CCL Green and play schools 2x and 3x their size. Dumb.

You can say ICCP can compete at that level. But programs rise and fall in strength (ask AC and Bmac).

 

[crusader_of_90]

Well, it seems the past classes have discouraged the current seniors - only seven out, one a returning starter. The sophomore slinger has decided not to play - but a junior will take over at QB. The other QB from last year moves to WR.

No real size.

I hate to sound Cub-ish, but wait until next year!

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/hig...cle_b8a6ffd8-a4c0-11e8-811d-27a9a1d20087.html

 

[KingRich]

A lot of scrutiny over Rochester's success which sounds like a lot of whining. Why should Rochester move up? They are a smaller school in a metro area so resources(school enrollment) are fixed due to boundries. Why punish the kids coming up in the youth football by putting them up against larger schools with much greater resources and pools of student to pull players from? Why punish the couching staff by decreasing their win total? So Rochester should just keep moving up until they turn in to a mediocre team with a 5-4 record? Those results will have an great affect on a smaller town. Namely: fewer people out for football, less attendance at games, less money for educational programs, less opportunity for coaches to move up the coaching ranks, less exposure for the football team, less scholarships for football players. There are others but those came to mind. How about the teams that play in a weak conference and dominate in order to get good seeds in the playoffs? Why no angst over them? They could change to a stronger conference to challenge themselves but then again they might miss the playoffs. Meanwhile, Rochester moved from a small school conference to a conference with all 5a and 6a competition. Rochester predominantly faces teams that are faster and more athletic weekly. Rochester takes a hit on their seeding from being in the CS8 conference because it does produce some losses. I'm sure this is a homer view but Rochester places a lot of emphasis on our JFL program and then you can compbine great coaching and outstanding competitiion in our conference to account for our success. There is no unfair advantage so why punish the current and future kids for past success. Every year is new and Rochester has 6 returning starters. You want to win a title then beat them instead of just trying get them moved out of your way.

 

[crusader_of_90]

Great program and coaching and families and kids.

But weak conference, minus SHG.

Just saying that there comes a time when it seems right to challenge yourself. Could you imagine if EastSide played in 5A? Or Phillips in 3A? Both are public schools that acted to challenge themselves.

The Rockets seem to not want to accept that type of challenge. That's their decision. But folks see it for what it is: weak sauce.

 

[NeverDieEasy]

Success breeds success, Rochester has a great program that kids want to be a part of, that being said it does seem like kids appear on their roster every season that didn't start out there as freshmen. The state championship with Morris was a great game and I think they gave them all they could handle. It will be interesting with IC in 4a and to see where the 4a/5a cut-off falls this year

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

Great program and coaching and families and kids.

But weak conference, minus SHG.

Just saying that there comes a time when it seems right to challenge yourself. Could you imagine if EastSide played in 5A? Or Phillips in 3A? Both are public schools that acted to challenge themselves.

The Rockets seem to not want to accept that type of challenge. That's their decision. But folks see it for what it is: weak sauce.

Sure, weak conference, 10 team round robin conference with what, five SHG titles, two runners up, and 6 other 1 loss seasons since 2000, and Rochester 7 titles in the last 8 years...Chatham Glenwood has a title & runner up in the last 20 years, only missed the playoffs once...sure, Lincoln is horrible, the Springfield publics are inconsistent, but this is not that bad a 5A conference...somebody has to finish 3rd & 4th...

Kind of like saying the I-8 is weak without Coal City and Wilmington...Or the Southland is weak without Crete-Monee...

 

[KingRich]

I don't really agree that the CS8 is weak. Of course there are weak teams just like in every other conference but overall the CS8 has good competition.Since 2010, all CS8 teams make the playoffs about 50% of the time and those numbers do not include Rochester's appearances. But if you look at Althoff, who has been a big rivalry of Rochesters the last few years their conference, the South 7, about 40% of their teams make it annually since 2010 if you take out Althoff's appearances. If the CS8 is weak what does that make the South 7? Also, the 4 South 7 teams which made the playoffs were all 5A. The CS8 playoff teams since 2010 were 4 6A teams and 3 5A teams. I think playing in the CS8 as a 4A team is a huge advantage for us. Rochester had 1 D1 player last year and that was a 5'9" QB with a rocket for an arm. Big schools stayed away because of the size. What huge transfer helped with the title last year? I do get what is being said I just don't agree that very successful teams should unfairly punish themselves until they are no longer successful.

 

[crusader_of_90]

The South Seven is not comprised of World Beaters, but since you made the direct comparison, I'd venture to say Althoff's regular season schedule is much more difficult than Rochester. To stay on point, it's challenging.

Non-cons include IC to open, #6 STL-area large school Vianney (led but lost to CBC in q-finals) week 2 and closing with #3 STL-area small school Cardinal Ritter, which only lost (twice) to Trinity last year, finishing 9-2.

RE: South Seven (six teams): you never know what's gonna be coming out of Cahokia, Marion and Centralia are not tomato cans; and the other two fluctuate from Suck to Decent.

Kiinda wish Althoff would go Independent again, but it's a mess for other sports.

 

[RPND24]

I’m just curious. I may be biased but why is morris never in the top group of contenders. They may or may not be this year but I mean really. The M-O-R R-I-S Redskins. I know we lost but who that knows IHSA football was surprised about the title game last year? Playing in and showing up for big games is what we do and have always done. I’m just blown that so little people respect us. I mean really y’all? This may not be THE YEAR to go on this rant but I see it all the time and it blows me. We’re a top 10 program in the state. I know this isn’t probably exactly true but I can remember more times we have l made it past the quarters in my life than times we haven’t

 

[eagles2k3]

Caught their game last night on nfhs. IC looks like they haven’t missed a beat. Their rb looks better than last years and they are huge on the lines. This could be their best team yet.

 

[Cross Bones]

This is kind of funny I was just remembering the turmoil after Morris switched coaching staffs. It was definitely one of the hottest topics the board has ever seen outside of public/private stuff. Glad to see Morris back to being Morris.

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

I’m just curious. I may be biased but why is morris never in the top group of contenders.

Morris should always be in the top group of contenders. The problem is, Morris was in 4A for the first time in ages last fall. As a result, people are still not ready to anoint them to the top of 4A because they still think of the Redskins as a 5A school. The bottom of 4A has the same issue...the not current have McNamara as a 3A title favorite, while they also think Herscher will make the 4A playoffs, when Mac's enrollment number is now almost 50 students more than Herscher...

That said, Morris was #2 in AP preseason, and beating #9 Coal City will only help...IC is scary, but history says that playing them on grass is a huge advantage, so I think a potential semifinal between Morris and IC would hinge on who hosts...