Success Factor/NAZ

[olderbytheminute]

The part that gets me is Naz and JCA could go to title and get bumped up to 6a for 2 years but no matter what happens in the next 2 year period they can’t stay in 6a. Gotta love the IHSA.

I don’t get why you think that statement makes no sense.
If Naz and JCA get success-factored up to 6a for next two years and then don’t have that same level of success then why should they continue to be success-factor multiplied.
You apparently think that if they are succes-multiplied into 6a they should stay in that class …. Forever?
The purpose of the success factor is basically to move repeat state-finalists from private schools up a class and then to drop them back to their enrollment-multiplied class if the state-final success can’t continue.
That would seem to make better sense than any suggestion of once you are success-factored up a class that is your new class forever unless you keep playing at ISU or enrollment drops.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Sure they can stay in 6a, just play up from 5A after two year period is over…no?

 

[rink62221]

ESL should petition up to 8A as they are a national power

East Side's conference, the Southwestern Conference, will not permit the Flyers to petition to play above 6A. All of the other teams are either 7A or 8A and don't want to deal with them in the playoffs.

 

[Green Knights 17]

They won't need to petition up they'll be successful factored up.

Question for Naz guys. What is the enrollment like at Naz? Has it increased recently? With next year being the start of a new 2 year cycle for classification plus success factor will Naz be 6A or 7A next year? Their enrollment is listed at 1180 and the largest 5A team is 1272 so they're close to the top of 5A currently.

Naz enrollment is around 800 and they can only fit around 825 in the building.

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

I don’t get why you think that statement makes no sense.
If Naz and JCA get success-factored up to 6a for next two years and then don’t have that same level of success then why should they continue to be success-factor multiplied.
You apparently think that if they are succes-multiplied into 6a they should stay in that class …. Forever?
The purpose of the success factor is basically to move repeat state-finalists from private schools up a class and then to drop them back to their enrollment-multiplied class if the state-final success can’t continue.
That would seem to make better sense than any suggestion of once you are success-factored up a class that is your new class forever unless you keep playing at ISU or enrollment drops.

I think you misunderstood the irony of what he was saying.

They could both be SF'd up to 7A, BUT no matter what they can't stay in 6A after 2 years.

EDIT: after 2 years in 6A, it's either back to 5A, or up to 7A. Without a petition.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I don’t get why you think that statement makes no sense.
If Naz and JCA get success-factored up to 6a for next two years and then don’t have that same level z of success then why should they continue to be success-factor multiplied.
You apparently think that if they are succes-multiplied into 6a they should stay in that class …. Forever?
The purpose of the success factor is basically to move repeat state-finalists from private schools up a class and then to drop them back to their enrollment-multiplied class if the state-final success can’t continue.
That would seem to make better sense than any suggestion of once you are success-factored up a class that is your new class forever unless you keep playing at ISU or enrollment drops.

What's the justification for moving them up in the first place? To get them in the "right" class presumably? We'll then I guess merely failing to trophy twice doesn't mean they are in the wrong class either.

If you win too much your in the wrong class and then if you don't win enough you're in the wrong class. It's Schrodinger's classification.

IHSA should get rid of all success based classification metrics (including the multiplier waiver, IMO). They just don't make sense. Figure out other classification methods than enrollment if you want, but being successful in your class shouldn't indicate an incorrect classification.

 

[olderbytheminute]

What's the justification for moving them up in the first place? To get them in the "right" class presumably? We'll then I guess merely failing to trophy twice doesn't mean they are in the wrong class either.

If you win too much your in the wrong class and then if you don't win enough you're in the wrong class. It's Schrodinger's classification.

IHSA should get rid of all success based classification metrics (including the multiplier waiver, IMO). They just don't make sense. Figure out other classification methods than enrollment if you want, but being successful in your class shouldn't indicate an incorrect classification.

I agree with you in that I do not like the success factor. But that was not your point.
Your point was they should stay in 6a if they are succes-factored into that class and since there is a success factor in existence, sticking a school with a success factor multiplier forever makes zero sense.
If your argument is that there should be no success factor or there should be a success factor for every school playing football, that’s a discussion I would like to see the ihsa have.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I agree with you in that I do not like the success factor. But that was not your point.
Your point was they should stay in 6a if they are succes-factored into that class and since there is a success factor in existence, sticking a school with a success factor multiplier forever makes zero sense.
If your argument is that there should be no success factor or there should be a success factor for every school playing football, that’s a discussion I would like to see the ihsa have.

Well wasn't my original argument. But poster was obviously pointing out the absurdity of the SF. I don't believe it was an argument to have either team stay in 6A.

I'd personally love to see Naz in 6A full time, but I see no reason for them to opt up when a two year run would just bump them up to 7A. Might as well just play where IHSA places them and shrug shoulders at the absurdity. Not like it's an issue you can easily whip up votes for to change since it impacts so few.

 

[Gestalt45]

Guys….guys….this is ESL we are talking about let’s not forget that like MC, no one actually beats them. The difference is MC gives opponents games because they feel bad or something while ESL gets games stolen from them by all white referees taken out of the movie Remember the Titans.

In other words, ESL would run through any class any year even 9a. Just as long as CG doesn’t show up 😬

I think there is a team out of Lombard that is undefeated against ESL…

 

[greatgig13]

Forgot the success factor and go with the zip code factor.

 

[Dave Brody]

Reduce the 30 mile radius down to 15.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Reduce the 30 mile radius down to 15.

No. Private schools should all bolt before they accept a 75% reduction of their eligible student population.

 

[crusader_of_90]

I think there is a team out of Lombard that is undefeated against ESL…

There are teams out of Texas, Florida, Georgia, California and other states that are too.

 

[LHSTigers94]

There are teams out of Texas, Florida, Georgia, California and other states that are too.

I was thinking this myself as I don’t understand the point of his post.

 

[USD24]

There are teams out of Texas, Florida, Georgia, California and other states that are too.

And Joliet as well

 

[HSFootballfan_007]

The easiest solution to all of this is to just split the the leagues. Very easy at this point and then the publics can go down to 5 or 6 classes and privates can have 2 or 3.

No need for success criteria, multiplier, etc. Schools that can recruit plays schools who can recruit. Public schools play all publics under the same rules

 

[daveje]

The easiest solution to all of this is to just split the the leagues. Very easy at this point and then the publics can go down to 5 or 6 classes and privates can have 2 or 3.

No need for success criteria, multiplier, etc. Schools that can recruit plays schools who can recruit. Public schools play all publics under the same rules

But what about the public schools that recruit like LWE?

 

[SiuCubFan8]

But what about the public schools that recruit like LWE?

A 4-star QB just showed up to the first day of camp, no one knew.

 

[mc140]

A 4-star QB just showed up to the first day of camp, no one knew.

Who ironically was initially rumored to be going to a CCL school.

 

[daveje]

A 4-star QB just showed up to the first day of camp, no one knew.

The bus just dropped him off. What great luck.

 

[penlight]

When the playoffs started in 1974, regardless or Public or Private the formula was the average enrollment of your conference, or your own enrollment if it was higher than the average.
The all boys schools had their enrolment number doubled.
A bit later they made it the average enrollment of your opponents with the highest and lowest being dropped from the calculation.
Personally I prefer either of those to the hodge-podge of multiple variables that is now used.

 

[Irish LB]

The easiest solution to all of this is to just split the the leagues. Very easy at this point and then the publics can go down to 5 or 6 classes and privates can have 2 or 3.

No need for success criteria, multiplier, etc. Schools that can recruit plays schools who can recruit. Public schools play all publics under the same rules

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You really don’t want a world where the only one governing the private schools is the private schools.

 

[doctor_d]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You really don’t want a world where the only one governing the private schools is the private schools.

Not a fan of separation. Im more a fan of going back to average opponent enrollment if anything. Can you elaborate on your statement?

 

[HSFootballfan_007]

At this point, it doesn't matter anyways. Head coaches don't have to teach all day, can pick salaries, recruit all day long. Oh by the way then, if you don't win playoff games you can play down

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You really don’t want a world where the only one governing the private schools is the private schools.

 

[PowerI66]

When the playoffs started in 1974, regardless or Public or Private the formula was the average enrollment of your conference, or your own enrollment if it was higher than the average.
The all boys schools had their enrolment number doubled.
A bit later they made it the average enrollment of your opponents with the highest and lowest being dropped from the calculation.
Personally I prefer either of those to the hodge-podge of multiple variables that is now used.

Seeing where schools would land this year with FE would be a fun exercise

 

[colin2229]

Forgot the success factor and go with the zip code factor.

This one scares me. Because of how many private schools will win titles this year, based on emotion and people wanting to see change, I'm afraid this vote might actually make it across the finish line.

There are several small private schools that would end up getting pushed up several classes. The entire Chicagoland Christian Conference for example. A school like Chicago Christian could be 6a.

 

[godfthr53]

At this point, it doesn't matter anyways. Head coaches don't have to teach all day, can pick salaries, recruit all day long. Oh by the way then, if you don't win playoff games you can play down

If you don't win playoff games you're probably not good. Also the public schools voted on the multiplier waiver. It was said then that this would happen and the private schools would be spread over more classes.

 

[epicbret]

I'm just here for the tears

 

[greatgig13]

This one scares me. Because of how many private schools will win titles this year, based on emotion and people wanting to see change, I'm afraid this vote might actually make it across the finish line.

There are several small private schools that would end up getting pushed up several classes. The entire Chicagoland Christian Conference for example. A school like Chicago Christian could be 6a.

Is a zip code factor on the table? I was being a little facetious. I see your point and where would the 8A school with 92 zips go? This up and down with success factor confuses me.

 

[daveje]

Is a zip code factor on the table? I was being a little facetious. I see your point and where would the 8A school with 92 zips go? This up and down with success factor confuses me.

The NFL?

 

[Irish LB]

At this point, it doesn't matter anyways. Head coaches don't have to teach all day, can pick salaries, recruit all day long. Oh by the way then, if you don't win playoff games you can play down

You really need to find a better hobby than crying about Nazareth. Sorry LT choked.

 

[jwarigaku]

I'm just here for the tears

By this time next week you better be prepared to drink from a 🔥 hose! Only question is if the Antioch coach will return to comment here or on X!

 

[Billy Budapest]

The NFL?

Negative. NCAA first.

 

[HSFootballfan_007]

You really need to find a better hobby than crying about Nazareth. Sorry LT choked.

Facts are facts, no reason for private schools who have won 8A Mount Carmel, 7A Naz, 6A JCA to ever play below those levels.

They aren’t recruiting inferior talent to those teams after winning titles, & are bringing in better talent & clearly are capable of winning at that higher level.

 

[Irish LB]

Facts are facts, no reason for private schools who have won 8A Mount Carmel, 7A Naz, 6A JCA to ever play below those levels.

They aren’t recruiting inferior talent to those teams after winning titles, & are bringing in better talent & clearly are capable of winning at that higher level.

You seem confused about facts and opinions. You offered your opinion, that’s fine you’re entitled but it’s not fact because you think it is.

So because Naz once had a roster so good it could win 7a that means every Naz team is the same? Get real. Naz went 4-5 last year and 5-4 the year before, losing to teams in and below their classification. They also played many games that were incredibly tight in both those runs. There’s nothing wrong with the class they were in, just because they won doesn’t mean they didn’t belong. Someone’s gotta win this damn thing and not everyone deserves a trophy contrary to what you seem to think.

 

[Irish LB]

Facts are facts, no reason for private schools who have won 8A Mount Carmel, 7A Naz, 6A JCA to ever play below those levels.

They aren’t recruiting inferior talent to those teams after winning titles, & are bringing in better talent & clearly are capable of winning at that higher level.

I have some upsetting news for you… LT recruits and they should. Want Naz to stop getting kids from your district? “Recruit” them like the private schools do. The thing about LT is that it’s free, it’s a very good academic school, all their friends are gonna be going there and they won’t be turned away no matter what their grades or test scores are. You play good football like they did this year and you show them some love and there’s literally nothing for you to moan about.

Or you could just be lazy and expect them to show up like they are some sort of property of yours and then cry when they make a life decision to chose a different path.

 

[Dave Brody]

I have some upsetting news for you… LT recruits and they should. Want Naz to stop getting kids from your district? “Recruit” them like the private schools do. The thing about LT is that it’s free, it’s a very good academic school, all their friends are gonna be going there and they won’t be turned away no matter what their grades or test scores are. You play good football like they did this year and you show them some love and there’s literally nothing for you to moan about.

Or you could just be lazy and expect them to show up like they are some sort of property of yours and then cry when they make a life decision to chose a different path.

Just as there is a success factor, there should be a way for the public’s to move down a class based on their lack of success. I know it sounds ridiculous but I just think that if the public’s are not having success - they should drop down and get the trophy. Do it the exact opposite of the SF - not make the playoffs in a 2 yr window, they drop down in yr 3.

Teams like LT could finally get theirs. Everyone gets a trophy.

 

[Irish LB]

Just as there is a success factor, there should be a way for the public’s to move down a class based on their lack of success. I know it sounds ridiculous but I just think that if the public’s are not having success - they should drop down and get the trophy. Do it the exact opposite of the SF - not make the playoffs in a 2 yr window, they drop down in yr 3.

Teams like LT could finally get theirs. Everyone gets a trophy.

Screw that. They got > 4k students in a talent rich area. Figure it out.

They don’t deserve a trophy just because they step on the field. If you don’t like it get better, if you’re not good enough welcome to the real world. I played at Naz in an era where they won one playoff game for its first 27 varsity seasons. Literally 1980-2006 there was one playoff win.

 

[Snetsrak61]

Facts are facts, no reason for private schools who have won 8A Mount Carmel, 7A Naz, 6A JCA to ever play below those levels.

They aren’t recruiting inferior talent to those teams after winning titles, & are bringing in better talent & clearly are capable of winning at that higher level.

Schools also change over time. Carmel of Mundeline's one dominant team from 20 years ago says more than the past 10 where they weren't even playoff qualifiers for half the seasons? Ehhh.


Naz has a nice little playoff rivalry with Prairie Ridge that has spanned two classes. In many years the top to bottom talent isn't that different between 5A and 6A with some years 5A having the edge in talent. Some of the best teams in 3A and 4A are also clearly capable of competing at higher levels. Just as Prairie Ridge has dropped to 5A because of enrollment, private schools should adjust to enrollment changes.