Well, keep going. Ignore the problem, but ostracize those negatively impacted by it. In your world, there are no victims. What are you having for breakfast, tough guy, metal shavings and motor oil? Keep making my point.
Soucie breaks down who's moving where next year success/multiplier
- Thread starter sporthog9er
- Start date
So now you are comparing private schools to men and non-private to girls? Talk about saying less! You should have quit when your original post didn't contain that culture war reference. You just couldn't resist editing and adding one more shot though.
I’ve heard that there’s a thing called the Golden Bachelor and Bachelorette. Mrs Og prefers I don’t watch either show.
Yes, I used hyperbole in kind with yours. But as I first mentioned, your dogmatic existence when it t comes to others, disables you ability to apply principles. Go ahead.
Now public schools are VICTIMS, huh? The world is out to get them. I get it. That mentality has worked for the Flyers for decades. Might as well extend it to all the public schools.
Don't you find it the least bit disingenuous that public schools are victims when they lose to private schools, but it's crickets when that happens against other public schools?
Are you really slow or are you just acting like it? Whenever there is an advantage, there is always a DISadvantage. They go hand in hand.
I've already told you in this thread what I think your so called advantage really is. So who's the slow one?
By the way, since you mentioned ESL, we have never gotten our a$$ beat by a private school, it always come down to the wire. Now, can you say the same?
Nope, sure can't, and more power to ESL. You'll never hear me whining about extraordinary success.
All you are doing with that last shot is PROVING MY POINT that it CAN be done! Public schools CAN prevail, and have prevailed many times, against private schools -- even the top tier ones. Where is that so called advantage when that happens? I'll tell you where. It's conveniently ignored because it is only trotted out when private schools beat public schools. Most times, it is whined about after the fact. Sometimes, it is pre-emptively deployed prior to private/public games as a means of lowering expectations.
Last edited:
Again, you insist on ignoring the principle. ESL and a couple others are anomalies, but still sit at a disadvantage in comparison. Empirical data supports this. If you wanna pound your chest on the success of CCL, at the very least you must admit that, that is if you have any wits about yourself.
Chicago is the 3rd largest city in the country, so the talent pool of Loyola should be in line with the Mater Deis and St. John Boscos of the world, but refuse to compete at that level.
Is the competitive advantage in the room with us right now? Does it have 3 digits or 2 digits
After numerous occurrences, and NOT just one a year, the anomalies argument falls flat. Was Macoutah an anomaly when they beat JCA in the playoffs? How about Rockford Auburn over St Rita? Vernon Hills over Nazareth? Genoa Kingston over St Francis? Do those public schools just mentioned belong in your same sentence as "ESL and a couple others...?"
It does for you, but when I give you empirical data examples to support my argument, you casually dismiss them as anomalies.
Now you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Why compete at their level when we already compete week in and week out with all the unfairly advantaged private school cheaters in the country's third largest metro area, right? You can't have it both ways, dude.
So you highlight MASCOUTAH but fail to mention JCA record against public schools. You can count on one hand the amount of public teams that beat JCA however the number is endless when it comes to the win column for JCA against public.
You have to simply acknowledge the “advantage”. Is it fair, in 6-8A yes, in 5A and below no. It is what it is.
Your argument is equivalent to me pretending that ESL didn’t have a speed advantage against LA. Base on your theory, LA just need a speed coach to get them faster!
You may be surprised to learn that team speed is teachable
Before we chastice IL top private schools for not being Mater Dei or Bosco, perhaps we should ask if they also compete under similar rules?
I can't find what restrictions exactly exists, but I did find this article with anecdotes of 150 mile and 70 mile commutes! Let's tear up that 30 mile radius and see what Loyola/Mt Carmel can do!
California’s High School Football Powerhouses Feed the College Game (Published 2021)
St. John Bosco and Mater Dei, 24 miles apart in Southern California, don’t just funnel players to the top college teams. Increasingly, they resemble them.
5A and below simply don’t have the population to obtain similar ball players that the suburbs of Chicago can obtain. It’s pretty simple.
So, IL top privates would be at a disadvantage to Mater Dei and St. John Bosco?Before we chastice IL top private schools for not being Mater Dei or Bosco, perhaps we should ask if they also compete under similar rules?
I can't find what restrictions exactly exists, but I did find this article with anecdotes of 150 mile and 70 mile commutes! Let's tear up that 30 mile radius and see what Loyola/Mt Carmel can do!
California’s High School Football Powerhouses Feed the College Game (Published 2021)
St. John Bosco and Mater Dei, 24 miles apart in Southern California, don’t just funnel players to the top college teams. Increasingly, they resemble them.www.nytimes.com
Really? So why is the big boy teams in the CCL typically big and slow with a few minor exceptions?
Because when you try to solve an arbitrary disadvantage by looking without instead of within your only option is to assign an arbitrary solution
Yet those same schools refuse to play comparable teams in the regular season. Those same schools refuse to petition up because of the assumed disadvantage they believe they may have in a higher class. Talking out of both sides of their mouth.
We don’t have an advantage but I can’t play 7a or above because they have an advantage.
Man up or shut up. Isn’t that the thought process.
Must not be very good recruiters I guess.
To argue that the private schools distinct competitive advantage is the recruiting radius, and then say they're big and slow, hilarious.
The teams are already playing up with the multiplier, and there are several recent examples of teams that lost the multiplier due to the coof year petitioning up. Most are already playing 1 or 2 classes above their enrollment peers. "One more class would feel better to me" ok buddy good points all around
Long time listener. First time caller.
I don’t think people outside of the CCL “area” realize how utterly dominant a team would be should all kids from MC, St. Rita, Marist & Brother Rice, etc. decide to attend their public school in Morgan Park.
What difference does it make? No advantages correct? Play up 4 classes, it’s all the same right?
You think so? somehow every year an objectively more talented team on paper loses or even gets dog walked by a much less talented team (this year highly touted many star team in Morgan park who edgy had beating jca in the semis who lost to Morris a week ago is a great example of the very school you reference). How many more 3*+ did Morgan park need to beat Morris?
You seem like an intelligent dude but your replies seem like you are too entrenched in your beliefs to accept some pretty basic facts. Sure you can list a dozen or so games over the past 10 years. But there have been 240 games played in this years playoff alone. And going back ten years, we are talking about nearly 2500 games. Your dozen examples is less than .5%, which is meaningless in the grand scheme of this. If Soucie's numbers are accurate, there is an undeniable advantage the private schools have. Now, im not saying its illegal, or unfair or must be changed. But I cant just ignore the numbers and pretend they dont exist.
You dont have empirical data. You have anecdotes and a insignificant sample size.
I believe his point is when you are in a city with a population similar to Los Angeles, you should be producing perennial top 10 teams nationally like SJB, Mater Dei, etc.
I'd accuse you of being the one playing dumb but it's more likely your natural state. If Morgan park and Marist switched rosters this year one would have improved and one would have been regressed, and everyone knows it.
Small sample size, but let's look at JCA playoff scores for last season and through the semis this season. They have outscored their opponents 388-110. 59 of those opponent points came last season against other Catholic league teams (Providence/Nazareth).
Take that out, they have out scored 5A public schools 388-51....and we all know there were running clocks involved and the dogs were called off early. In reality, it probably could be more like 600-51 against 5A playoff teams. We're not talking bottom tier 5A teams. Nothing to see here, they are right where they belong....
Bingo what? There's advantages both ways and a multiplier as a remedy to help mitigate some of the privates advantages in the fact that enrollments aren't an equivalent measure between school types.
Based on most private schools enrollments 30 miles is a limiting factor for most in just continuing the long term health of the schools. It gets framed as an advantage, but it's very clearly a limitation. Whether the radius size and multiplier effect are scaled properly can be a whole debate, but let's not pretend the private schools operate under some unbearable competetive advantage.
However an enrollment only metric is NEVER going to succeed at lining up competetive balance all that well. If that's what the IHSA wants it requires a lot more work from all member and recognition that among public schools even there is massive imbalances that enrollment alone can't address either.
I have truly discovered that I have been discussing principles to a few guys who wouldn’t even know how to tie their shoes without their “advantage” AKA privilege. I should have known better. I digress.
They were young this year. They will most definitely be a state contender in 3A next year, or 2026.
Similar threads
