Can you show me on the doll where the privilege hurt you? Or are you enjoying the running water and reliable electricity too much
Soucie breaks down who's moving where next year success/multiplier
- Thread starter sporthog9er
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Outside of a few teams, the 5A tournament field this year is weak, especially the south bracket.Small sample size, but let's look at JCA playoff scores for last season and through the semis this season. They have outscored their opponents 388-110. 59 of those opponent points came last season against other Catholic league teams (Providence/Nazareth).
Take that out, they have out scored 5A public schools 388-51....and we all know there were running clocks involved and the dogs were called off early. In reality, it probably could be more like 600-51 against 5A playoff teams. We're not talking bottom tier 5A teams. Nothing to see here, they are right where they belong....
JC vs Prairie Ridge would be a great game but we’re stuck with the N/S format.
It's one year. I’m hoping next year is different.
The above is the crux of the public school apologist argument. It's the best you've got.
You and your ilk hide behind equity. You want tit for tat, and I want the NIPL (sorry, couldn't pass that one up). You want to make everything nice and neat and even in this particular sport when life itself is not nice and neat and even. You want equity or parity or a level playing field or whatever else you want to call it.
You point out that I highlight public school Mascoutah (even though I highlighted many other so called anomalies) and that I failed to mention Joliet Catholic. How is that different from you pointing out Joliet Catholic but failing to mention Rochester and its 18-5 playoff record against private schools since 2009. See? I can play that game too. Why is it crickets from you folks when Rochester wins NINE titles in 13 years and five in a row at one point? Where is the gnashing of teeth and beating of breasts over Rochester (or other extraordinarily successful public schools over the years like ESL, Maine South, WWS, Carthage, etc.) in your quixotic quest for equity?
Yup, that's the argument on which you bet the farm. My Rochester rebuttal, along with a few others, is where it crashes and burns.
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Never? In their only match up JCA beat ESL 45-8.
Great point. So then let's give Morgan Park a divisor applied to their enrollment. If private schools get a multiplier because they cherry pick all the good athletes, then why shouldn't Morgan Park get a divisor?
All in the name of fairness, of course.
Throw in Evergreen Park too. Agreed, if the public’s want equity - use the divisor.
For the
I believe Ohio actually does something to this effect. But it requires schools (private and public) to track and report by sport where their incoming students attended 7th/8th grade (and transfers). Once they account for all the inflows/outflows they can see who is getting net recruiting gains/losses and adjust schools classifications accordingly.
Having different types of organizations competing on the same field is not feasible. The enrollment requirements, funding structures, and levels of accountability are all different. Imagine if the NCAA allowed private universities to recruit players from surrounding states, while state schools could only enroll residents of their own state—how would that affect NCAA athletics? Or what if the NFL allowed teams to acquire players in different ways? That would certainly create issues, wouldn’t it?
I have never seen someone so openly hostile against the idea of fairness and equity. A simple conversation about it seems to irk you to the core. Kind of says alot about you sir.
if you want to open up the equity conversation with suggesting we use tax dollars to subsidize private schools ill be all ears. until then i'll continue to assume you're operating mala fide
It's not about fairness and equity. If it were, then you and others would also be all over including Rochester, MS, ESL, WWS, etc. in your desire to legislate fairness and equity, but you're not. It's only the private schools that you want to address. And that says a lot about you and your kind as well.
Taxpayer money should NEVER go to religious organizations. End of story.
Thats dumb and by you even going down that road I can tell you aren't interested in having a real discussion about it.
equity for me and not for thee, and im not the one interested in having a real discussion
Cute rhyme. Again, when you want to have a real discussion about it, and not throwing out ridiculous suggestions about having tax payer dollars go to private schools, ill be here.
Or if the private parents could good a tuition waiver (it’s 4 years per each kid, not in perpetuity), I’d be all for that.
As we all know, currently the private parents are funding the local public schools via property taxes. There’s no choice. Sending kids to the private school lessens the overhead stress on the public school.
i made a suggestion, remove multipliers and success factors and have the 6 CCL conferences split between 6a-8a, top two conference members that qualify go into 8a middle two in 7, and bottom two in 6a.
There is of course choice vis a vie public v private. Public to public, no. But those are separate animals. Should there be more choice public to public? Maybe, but there's a very big system to unwind based on how IL funds its educational dollars.
Happens more often than you would think in the social services and healthcare sectors.
U.S. Catholic hospitals alone (not to mention other religiously affiliated hospitals like Lutheran, Jewish, Adventist, etc.) receive $48 BILLION annually just in Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements.
Why should religious schools be precluded from receiving taxpayer money to reimburse them on a fee for service basis? Again, happens all the time in other sectors.
Everyone who pays property taxes is funding the local public schools. Private school parents make the choice that they would rather spend their own money (or accept financial aid) to send their child to a private institution for their education. This should in no way have a negative effect on the public school(s) that must accept and educate ALL students who reside in the district, regardless of their academic abilities, athletic abilities, parental socio-economic status, legacy, etc.
If you choose private, you have an abundance of options. If you choose public, you only have 1 option. Seems that public schools are at a disadvantage when it comes to choice.
Let’s start here. I love NIPL however the reality is only two or three schools would join. ESL being one of the three.
So I don’t want any school public or private not pushing themselves. Please don’t lump me with others as well as my argument.
I am simply saying acknowledge the advantage and don’t pretend that it doesn’t exist. It’s that simple to me. Nothing is perfect.
You’re right that religious organizations, especially religious hospitals, get a lot of taxpayer money through programs like Medicare and Medicaid. But it’s important to understand the difference between money for healthcare services and money that supports religious activities.
The money from Medicare and Medicaid is for healthcare services, not for religious practices. Even though these hospitals are connected to a religion, they still provide important healthcare services to everyone and must follow government rules. The problem with giving taxpayer money directly to religious organizations is that it could promote certain religious beliefs, which might not be fair to everyone, especially since the government is supposed to stay separate from religion.
This is a complicated issue, but in the end, taxpayer money should be used for services that help everyone without supporting specific religions, so no one group gets an unfair advantage.
I have to lump you with others. Blame them, not me.
I'll acknowledge it when they acknowledge that it's the height of UNFAIRNESS and INEQUITY to address the extraordinary success of private schools but not that of public schools.
You might want to start here, but it's a nonstarter for me.
Don't get me started on this.
The whole concept of church and state separation is a fallacy. Indeed, there is NO SUCH THING as separation of church and state other than in the minds of those who want it.
Read your first amendment. It says that congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Period. It doesn't say that you can't have religious symbols on public property, and neither does it say that you can't have taxpayer funding go to faith-based institutions to pay for services (like healthcare, care for the disabled, and education) that contribute to the public good.
Hey, have you seen that the Oklahoma State Superintendent has mandated that the Bible be used in public school classrooms?
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So is the Oklahoma State Superintendent of schools who is mandating the Bible be included in public school instruction.
I haven’t highlighted anyone success. I responded to your statement about Mascoutah, who I am familiar with, beating JCA. Outside of that, I think private should primarily compete in 6A and above with a few minor exceptions. Outside of that, I’m good with the system. If Naz or JC win 6A ten years in a row, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. 5A population is at a great disadvantage in comparison.
Naz and JC will both be success factored into 6a next season, there are rules in place for privates overperforming in their (multiplied) class
Jha,
We have had some good discussions in the past, I’m curious if you prefer equal opportunities or equal outcomes guaranteed?
There absolutely is and needs to be a separation. Religion is a man-made fallacy that, in its original form, attempted to explain the unexplainable. It has now evolved into a system of control and abuse.
The douche bag in Oklahoma is forcing religious beliefs onto students. In some cases, that is an act of war.
My constitutional rights as a person should not be diminished or outweighed by the rights of a religious organization to exist.
YOU might not have a problem with it, but, newsflash, you are just one public school apologist out of many. You are seemingly fine with throwing your 6A, 7A, and 8A public school brethren under the bus, but do you think they will just stay silent and take their lumps?
Just separate public and private and be done with it!
So now, suddenly, you agree with the principle that a wider recruitment radius provides a competitive advantage. In your mind a 30-mile radius provides no advantage to Illinois private schools over their public-school counterparts; but, a 70-mile radius provides an advantage to out-of-state Catholic schools over the Illinois Catholic schools.Before we chastice IL top private schools for not being Mater Dei or Bosco, perhaps we should ask if they also compete under similar rules?
I can't find what restrictions exactly exists, but I did find this article with anecdotes of 150 mile and 70 mile commutes! Let's tear up that 30 mile radius and see what Loyola/Mt Carmel can do!
California’s High School Football Powerhouses Feed the College Game (Published 2021)
St. John Bosco and Mater Dei, 24 miles apart in Southern California, don’t just funnel players to the top college teams. Increasingly, they resemble them.www.nytimes.com
That does not seem to be consistent reasoning.
The limit of the radius is of course going directly going to impact to what impact those schools can attract student athletes. I've never said otherwise. Certainly the wider the circle there's diminishing returns since most schools will pull a large majority of their students from close by. But in terms of high end football achievers (certainly to the extent of a Bosco nationally!) that has an impact. Also it expands past Tigers original point of Chicago being a near equivalent recruiting area to Bosco's southern California since they're obviously pulling from addiitional large metros. Not nearly the same population comparison now.
All to I guess take a shot at those schools? Weak stuff.
So medicare and medicaid reimbursements to religious hospitals are okay in your book. Your tax dollars at work, doing what you want them to do. However, using taxpayer dollars to reimburse religious schools for the education they provide is not okay in your book. You are drawing the line at that. Somehow the first example is not a diminishment of what you think is a constitutional right, but the second one most definitely is. And why is that? Simply because you don't believe in religion? God help you if you ever need a faith based hospital to save your life.
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