Sandburg IHSA investigation - asst coach whistleblower on recruiting

[jwarigaku]

IC, Montini until recently. That's 8 publics and 7 privates. Almost the same. Big difference in comparison to the total numbers is all I'm saying.

Look you guys obviously want to be able to recruit a 30 mile radius, as I said in the other thread that got flushed for obvious reason, please have at it and then we can stop the arguement about what’s fair…the playing field would be completely level as long as everyone plays by ALL the same rules. So if Johnny from Naperville wants to play for The South Elgin Storm, no problem. Johnny’s parents pay their taxes in the home district and also pay the receiving school their average spend per student as “tuition”. Likewise if Micah decides to send his kids to Antioch(only God knows why) he’s welcome to but he still has to pay his Warren Taxes plus Antioch’s tuition. There you go, problem solved, you can recruit too, we get rid of multipliers and add success factors to everyone. 🤯 now the field is level. The privates will even take on FAPE related education provided the State funds the receiving private just like the publics are funded per student!

I dare anyone to say this isn’t fair and won’t create healthy competition and a path to continuous improvement of education as well. The system will promote success rather than mediocrity. I would love to be on the Walk through GEMBA for the improvement project. It’s time to 6 sigma IHSA and ISBE.

 

[eagles2k3]

Look you guys obviously want to be able to recruit a 30 mile radius, as I said in the other thread that got flushed for obvious reason, please have at it and then we can stop the arguement about what’s fair…the playing field would be completely level as long as everyone plays by ALL the same rules. So if Johnny from Naperville wants to play for The South Elgin Storm, no problem. Johnny’s parents pay their taxes in the home district and also pay the receiving school their average spend per student as “tuition”. Likewise if Micah decides to send his kids to Antioch(only God knows why) he’s welcome to but he still has to pay his Warren Taxes plus Antioch’s tuition. There you go, problem solved, you can recruit too, we get rid of multipliers and add success factors to everyone. 🤯 now the field is level. The privates will even take on FAPE related education provided the State funds the receiving private just like the publics are funded per student!

I dare anyone to say this isn’t fair and won’t create healthy competition and a path to continuous improvement of education as well. The system will promote success rather than mediocrity. I would love to be on the Walk through GEMBA for the improvement project. It’s time to 6 sigma IHSA and ISBE.

To be clear. I'm in the middle on this. I truly appreciate the catholic league and the traditions of each school. I understand why families send their kids to those schools. I'm just not sure what the best way to approach this situation. I do think there are issues with the playing field, mainly in 3-5A, but I don't have an answer to this.

 

[sac'em]

Look you guys obviously want to be able to recruit a 30 mile radius, as I said in the other thread that got flushed for obvious reason, please have at it and then we can stop the arguement about what’s fair…the playing field would be completely level as long as everyone plays by ALL the same rules. So if Johnny from Naperville wants to play for The South Elgin Storm, no problem. Johnny’s parents pay their taxes in the home district and also pay the receiving school their average spend per student as “tuition”. Likewise if Micah decides to send his kids to Antioch(only God knows why) he’s welcome to but he still has to pay his Warren Taxes plus Antioch’s tuition. There you go, problem solved, you can recruit too, we get rid of multipliers and add success factors to everyone. 🤯 now the field is level. The privates will even take on FAPE related education provided the State funds the receiving private just like the publics are funded per student!

I dare anyone to say this isn’t fair and won’t create healthy competition and a path to continuous improvement of education as well. The system will promote success rather than mediocrity. I would love to be on the Walk through GEMBA for the improvement project. It’s time to 6 sigma IHSA and ISBE.

Ok, I can play this game.
So, why do 70% of the members have to conform to what the other 30% do? Majority rules.
Also, though, if it were to be equal, Private schools need to follow the same educational guidelines that all public schools do. Same in the reporting of financials and other FOIA requirements.
Would love to see it proposed in committee.

 

[jwarigaku]

Ok, I can play this game.
So, why do 70% of the members have to conform to what the other 30% do? Majority rules.
Also, though, if it were to be equal, Private schools need to follow the same educational guidelines that all public schools do. Same in the reporting of financials and other FOIA requirements.
Would love to see it proposed in committee.

I’ll give you FOIA all day long. I’ve been on both sides of this equation, go ahead and file the FOIA and you’ll get exactly what the school is willing to share and the remainder will be redacted to control anything embarrassing in “the interest of protecting minors and other tangential individuals”

Not sure what you feel the financials are going to undercover other then the privates have to run like a business and spend within their means or fail, whereas the publics budgets show how bloated many have become.

Finally, this is not the privates trying to make the publics conform to anything, but rather a solution to the old tired arguement of “they can recruit from a 30 mile radius” as if it’s easy, and makes the privates unbeatable and needing to be removed from the IHSA for fairness. I’m just suggesting to level the playing field by letting everyone draw their student body from the same rules. Open and fair competition for the students academically and extracurricularly will lead to better schools and student bodies while the schools that don’t perform will either need to clean up their act or move to the sidelines. It really is a supply and demand world for every other commodity, why not primary education?

I do realize that this does create two issues for the public schools, 1) no more excuses about performance, academic or extracurricular and 2) teachers and coaches will have to work a bit harder to recruit the 95% of kids they can count on coming through the door now.

I would personally prefer the school voucher program so the wealth from tax bases overly funded gets spread to those less fortunate but realize that may be to radical for most to consider. That said, if the base does elect to banish the private schools from IHSA or push them to selected classifications that eliminate unfettered competition, they build the case for the privates to seperate and demand a voucher system be put in place.

 

[sac'em]

I’ll give you FOIA all day long. I’ve been on both sides of this equation, go ahead and file the FOIA and you’ll get exactly what the school is willing to share and the remainder will be redacted to control anything embarrassing in “the interest of protecting minors and other tangential individuals”

Not sure what you feel the financials are going to undercover other then the privates have to run like a business and spend within their means or fail, whereas the publics budgets show how bloated many have become.

Finally, this is not the privates trying to make the publics conform to anything, but rather a solution to the old tired arguement of “they can recruit from a 30 mile radius” as if it’s easy, and makes the privates unbeatable and needing to be removed from the IHSA for fairness. I’m just suggesting to level the playing field by letting everyone draw their student body from the same rules. Open and fair competition for the students academically and extracurricularly will lead to better schools and student bodies while the schools that don’t perform will either need to clean up their act or move to the sidelines. It really is a supply and demand world for every other commodity, why not primary education?

I do realize that this does create two issues for the public schools, 1) no more excuses about performance, academic or extracurricular and 2) teachers and coaches will have to work a bit harder to recruit the 95% of kids they can count on coming through the door now.

I would personally prefer the school voucher program so the wealth from tax bases overly funded gets spread to those less fortunate but realize that may be to radical for most to consider. That said, if the base does elect to banish the private schools from IHSA or push them to selected classifications that eliminate unfettered competition, they build the case for the privates to seperate and demand a voucher system be put in place.

Your 2 issues that are created:
1. How does getting kids from 30 miles away have anything to do with school performance academically? Athletically, I get it. I'd like to see how ALL of the students at these catholic schools do on standardized tests. I think many on this board would be surprised.
2. Teacher/coaches already do work hard. Most just realize that this is high school football and its not worth your entire life's work to get some 8th graders to say yes. I know some on here live and die with every snap of their beloved, but again, its high school football. Its 10% or less in many cases of the coaches' salaries. To spend hours every day calling parents just to get their kid to come to their school. To me, its a bit much.

 

[tomloner]

Sounds like this post is full of Public School haters....

It's well know that the CCL has been picking off kids from the ssc and SWSC forever. Especially from programs that have a tougher time winning which means they are in an endless loop without the ability to keep their kids in district.

St. Rita has had multiple transfers to public school for everyone (1) that comes in. TUITION is the number one reason kid’s leave. Ability to start a year sooner or to start when they are number two on the depth chart another reason. Easier academics and maybe a little less regimentation also a factor. St. Rita did have two two brothers who transferred in. Their father was a hell of a football player for St. Rita and Captain of the Purdue Boilermakers in 1980. The two brothers started for two years. Their senior year (last year) they were joined on the varsity by their younger brother who was a sophomore. All three brothers were playing linebacker together. One brother is at Minnesota and the other is at Dayton now. Next year the last brother is back at LB. LB will one of the strengths next year for St. Rita. That was a VERY large financial commitment on their parents part.

If I was not Catholic and/or a St. Rita alum and did not haver to live in the City of Chicago I would be moving to the LWE district in a heart beat. That's what my brother did. And as soon as his last girl graduated he moved into Grundy County. Tuition ends property taxes never do.

 

[jwarigaku]

Your 2 issues that are created:
1. How does getting kids from 30 miles away have anything to do with school performance academically? Athletically, I get it. I'd like to see how ALL of the students at these catholic schools do on standardized tests. I think many on this board would be surprised.
2. Teacher/coaches already do work hard. Most just realize that this is high school football and its not worth your entire life's work to get some 8th graders to say yes. I know some on here live and die with every snap of their beloved, but again, its high school football. Its 10% or less in many cases of the coaches' salaries. To spend hours every day calling parents just to get their kid to come to their school. To me, its a bit much.

So y’all moan and complain “but 30 mile radius” and now it’s an issue that it’s to hard to do that, well isn’t that special!

I’ve had my kids in public and private and they are all academically fit(lowest ACT 29) and the kids I’ve worked with in privates all would do fine on the standardized tests as would the overall private students…take a long hard look in the mirror in the best publics, because they cater to the top5% and bottom5% academically, while everyone in between is setup to get through the system.

Finally, if you think the private coaches are spending hours a day calling parents to get Johnny to play at their school your wrong and would also be a direct violation of IHSA bylaws. That said I know you believe that you’re correct so have at it.

 

[sac'em]

So y’all moan and complain “but 30 mile radius” and now it’s an issue that it’s to hard to do that, well isn’t that special!

I’ve had my kids in public and private and they are all academically fit(lowest ACT 29) and the kids I’ve worked with in privates all would do fine on the standardized tests as would the overall private students…take a long hard look in the mirror in the best publics, because they cater to the top5% and bottom5% academically, while everyone in between is setup to get through the system.

Finally, if you think the private coaches are spending hours a day calling parents to get Johnny to play at their school your wrong and would also be a direct violation of IHSA bylaws. That said I know you believe that you’re correct so have at it.

Your reference points are for 1 perspective, yours. And that's fine. Its awesome that your kids were able to succeed in either environment, which is a testament to your parenting.
However, I was a private school coach and public school coach. I went to a private school my whole academic career except for 1 graduate degree.
I know coaches that hit the phones hard, for most of the day. Yeah, a lot of it is for the general enrollment. Making sure parents know when registration fees are due, testing dates, etc. I had to be one of those callers. We were given lists of names, phone numbers, emails, and addresses. Call, email, and mail info.
But, while at the public school, we had 3 parents (in the same off season) show us texts that they were getting from some nearby private school. These texts referenced transferring (how it can be done) and tuition costs (even though none of the families filled out financials). 2 of the 3 players did not take the placement test for any of the private schools. Mind you, these were not incoming freshmen. 2 were entering sophomore year and another was entering junior year. None left, as they did not want to, but its the principle of it all. The school was informed and they said it would stop.

 

[jwarigaku]

But, while at the public school, we had 3 parents (in the same off season) show us texts that they were getting from some nearby private school. These texts referenced transferring (how it can be done) and tuition costs (even though none of the families filled out financials). 2 of the 3 players did not take the placement test for any of the private schools. Mind you, these were not incoming freshmen. 2 were entering sophomore year and another was entering junior year. None left, as they did not want to, but its the principle of it all. The school was informed and they said it would stop.

Sac’em,

It’s interesting that you claim to have been a coach at a private school with the above statement. Transferring students DO NOT take enterance/placement tests as you reference. The school administration reviews the incoming transfer’s grades and classes and make a decision if they feel the student will be successful or not. Odd that a coach from a private wouldn’t know this information.

Also please address what I propose, it seems to be where the bone of contention is and I’m suggesting you can use the same process as the privates…it’s not mandated it’s just available to all.

 

[sac'em]

Sac’em,

It’s interesting that you claim to have been a coach at a private school with the above statement. Transferring students DO NOT take enterance/placement tests as you reference. The school administration reviews the incoming transfer’s grades and classes and make a decision if they feel the student will be successful or not. Odd that a coach from a private wouldn’t know this information.

Also please address what I propose, it seems to be where the bone of contention is and I’m suggesting you can use the same process as the privates…it’s not mandated it’s just available to all.

First, I wasn't referring to transfer students as taking the test. I was simple stating that 2 of the 3 student-athletes that they were trying to get to transfer never took the exam before their freshman year. I'm pretty sure that public school 8th graders have to test to be enrolled.
Next, I feel like I did address it by stating that it would be ridiculous to have 70% of the body comply with what 30% want to be able to continue doing. And don't forget about the legacy exception. That makes it an unlimited radius.
So, lets flip it, what if religious private schools could only enroll students whose parents/guardians are active parishioners of the parish in which the school operates?

 

[jwarigaku]

First, I wasn't referring to transfer students as taking the test. I was simple stating that 2 of the 3 student-athletes that they were trying to get to transfer never took the exam before their freshman year. I'm pretty sure that public school 8th graders have to test to be enrolled.
Next, I feel like I did address it by stating that it would be ridiculous to have 70% of the body comply with what 30% want to be able to continue doing. And don't forget about the legacy exception. That makes it an unlimited radius.
So, lets flip it, what if religious private schools could only enroll students whose parents/guardians are active parishioners of the parish in which the school operates?

Regarding the privates having restricted enrollment to parishioners, Sure, as long as the state is going to fund the church and the school to make sure it stays open as they do publics(even when failing academically)…See I can be just as ridiculous as you are I suppose!

I never said the public schools HAVE to use a 30 mile radius to draw from, I just said they could if they want to do such, so please don’t conflate the issue that I’m expecting the 70% to do what they complain about which the privates need to do to keep the doors open.

Just to be clear ALL 8th graders regardless of private or public origins need to take the entrance exam. I’m struggling with you actually being a coach in any system. I’ve never hid my identity behind my moniker, it appears you enjoy the condition of anonymity.

 

[lweastdad]

Having the Publics allowed to recruit within 30 miles is ludicrous. What incentive would a family have to do that? Its not like the public schoools can offer scholarships.

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[jwarigaku]

Having the Publics allowed to recruit within 30 miles is ludicrous. What incentive would a family have to do that? Its not like the public schoools can offer scholarships.

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Need based just like the Privates, y’all have this distorted aspect and belief that football stars, volleyball stars, hoops stars, etc… are going to Benet, St Ignatius, Naz, Rice, Marist, MC, LOYOLA, NND, St Pats, JCA, Montini, etc.. for free which is just not fact! With the exception of the Broad Shoulders scholarship fund for the city of chicago residence there is no mystery scholarship fund. Just because you repeat the same nonsense over and over doesn’t make it true or fact.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Having the Publics allowed to recruit within 30 miles is ludicrous. What incentive would a family have to do that? Its not like the public schoools can offer scholarships.

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What is the tuition at LWE?

 

[lweastdad]

What is the tuition at LWE?

Have no idea since LWE doesn’t allow kids outside the school boundaries

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Have no idea since LWE doesn’t allow kids outside the school boundaries

Lack ok tuition equals a scholarship?

But there are kids from the Frankfort school district that chose to go to PC, JCA and SR. It’s not because of better football. There is absolutely nothing negative that I could say about LWE - the kids, the coaches, the community or the players. But there are families want something else and are willing to pay for it. There were guys that worked for me that worked multiple part time jobs to send their kids to Catholic schools and almost none of them played sports. I'm not Catholic or religious (except of a few nights in a rice paddy) But I understand that they offer a different product. MC and SR offer a slightly different product than BR and Marist. As an LWE dad I would think you could not have much to complain about.

 

[PowerI66]

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but how do schools choose which kids get admitted? I'm assuming you would have multiple schools, especially the current private schools, that would quickly reach capacity

 

[stripes13]

My buddy is trying to start a satanist private school, and also building a football team. I hope they get the 30 mile radius.

 

[crazylegs777]

My buddy is trying to start a satanist private school, and also building a football team. I hope they get the 30 mile radius.

There are enough of public schools like that. Don't need private ones

 

[stripes13]

There are enough of public schools like that. Don't need private ones

Well those pesky other religions and parents who don’t want teachers preaching to their children get in the way.

 

[jwarigaku]

My buddy is trying to start a satanist private school, and also building a football team. I hope they get the 30 mile radius.

Stripes, not my cup of Tea but if they can fund it and keep it up and running and there is a demand for it so be it. We are fortunate enough to live in America where you can practice what you believe. That said if you can teach these followings in the public schools then it should be equal billing for the Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindi, atheist, etc… teachings as well. Seriously, can’t we just become the true melting pot that we espoused to when it all started? Everyone needs to find love and tolerance in themselves and each other.

 

[crazylegs777]

Stripes, not my cup of Tea but if they can fund it and keep it up and running and there is a demand for it so be it. We are fortunate enough to live in America where you can practice what you believe. That said if you can teach these followings in the public schools then it should be equal billing for the Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindi, atheist, etc… teachings as well. Seriously, can’t we just become the true melting pot that we espoused to when it all started? Everyone needs to find love and tolerance in themselves and each other.

Those days are long gone

 

[ramblinman]

How many private schools have been able to sustain it over the last 20 years? The list is shorter than the public school list. MC, JCA, LA, Naz, SHG. Are there any more that are almost yearly a semi-finalist?

20 years ago, LA was losing in round two of 7A against schools like Glenbrook North and Prospect. From 2003-04 through 2008-09, LA was 5-6 in the playoffs and never made it past the second round.

 

[jwarigaku]

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but how do schools choose which kids get admitted? I'm assuming you would have multiple schools, especially the current private schools, that would quickly reach capacity

Sorry power I missed your question last night when I answered the Satanist school post(still wondering if this was tongue in cheek)

So publics have the same draw they have now, plus if they have a student that lives within a 30 mile radius that reaches out and wants to attend, the public school can take them, but they need to collect tuition from the student at the rate of their average spend per student.

The privates continue to recruit every student as they currently do, and if a student with FAPE requirements wants to attend, the private must take that student, but the receiving school gets state $$$$ at the average funding the state supplies public districts for each students with discrete special needs.

I don’t think this causes over crowding but creates choice at a price. As is currently, if the family has a financial need the third party agency can determine if scholarship will be awarded, but there still will likely be financial sacrifice every family would need to share.

I hope this answers your question(s), again it doesn’t require any school to change from their current path, it just gives the option of the 30 miles radius to all and would have the privates address FAPE in the same manner publics do by being compensated on a per student basis by the State.

 

[jwarigaku]

Those days are long gone

It’s the season for the reason to let your heart be open and tolerant! Try to see the good in everyone and find the middle to seek understanding of one another. I think there still is a lot to be hopeful for in this world, we just all need to think about each other, and how each of our individual actions effect others and ourselves in everyday life.