Rough weekend for CPS teams
- Thread starter ClownBaby
- Start date
All I was saying was CPL teams are not competitive. I love HS FB and look forward to this time of year. Never suggested the CPL should be tossed (Read my post). Someone suggested I was trying to take away the experience of these kids playing in the State Tourney, what experience? To come in at 9-0 and get your ass handed to you? Great morale booster.
Just put in the deserving teams. Didn't post this to start a PL vs Public league debate. Just want to see good football this time of year. 0-22, with a lot of blowouts is not good football
Make it a "one or the other" decision that would have to be declared to the IHSA using a Saturday deadline time before the computer spits out qualifiers and pairings.
I've flipped on this. I'd say let them in, all the CPS leagues/divisions, and lets roll with it. They participate in basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball, etc...
If they meet the criteria of the IHSA's "5 wins" let them in.
Over the course of the playoffs the cream will rise to the top more than likely.
Saying they don't belong isnt fair to the kids/coaches. Its much easier for the haves than the have nots to compete and experience success. CPS has far more have nots than haves, but those kids should be given the same opportunity.
Just because you're at Sullivan doesn't mean you're less important a kid at Simeon.
If they meet the criteria of the IHSA's "5 wins" let them in.
Over the course of the playoffs the cream will rise to the top more than likely.
Saying they don't belong isnt fair to the kids/coaches. Its much easier for the haves than the have nots to compete and experience success. CPS has far more have nots than haves, but those kids should be given the same opportunity.
Just because you're at Sullivan doesn't mean you're less important a kid at Simeon.
I agree with this. You know who likes getting blown out in the playoffs the LEAST? The actual kids and coaches getting blown out.
The real solution is to improve the quality of football in the CPS. Man, it's a TALL task, but that's the only real answer.
I don't have the answer, but I know that the constantly-shifting landscape of new charter schools, Co-ops, schools closing, etc. is NOT the answer. You need to build a football tradition at a school. Kudos to places like Amundsen who have been doing a nice job of this lately.
I recall in the late 80's the Southtown had a similar story about Sica teams losing early in the playoffs.Coach Acton said well since the playoffs started many Sica teams get matched up vs each other early so don't match us up vs each other
Something i just thought of is CPS cries about getting drilled in the football playoffs but has no issues drilling those schools in basketball.It reminds me of a chat i had years ago with Joliet Catholic people.They said the Illini 8 disbanded for the most part because teams were tired of getting beat up by Joliet Catholic in football.But then those same teams had no problems beating up on Joliet Catholic in other sports
And it's funny how 4 schools got disqualified from the volleyball tournament for playing 1 game too many yet 3 CPS basketball teams did the same thing & got a slap on the wrist & let back into the tournament.Hmmmm
Literally no one from the CPS "cries about getting drilled in the football playoffs". CPS supporters know they need to be more competitive. People complaining about blowouts are exclusively NOT the CPS teams getting blown out.
That was literally a decade and a different board ago.
This is (mostly) wholly and completely untrue. CPS rules are very clear about attendance, and you can't just attend any neighborhood school "if there is room." If you are not in the boundary, you must apply to a program at the school unavailable at other CPS schools, just like any selective enrollment. For instance, LP has Double Honors and specific band programs. If you are not in that boundary, you must apply - and be accepted - to one of those programs. This isn't to say that there aren't schools that don't play by the rules, but it is a very clear rule. Selective enrollment schools like Kenwood, Lane, Simeon, or Philips when it was an AUSL turnaround school, can draw from the entire city as part of the way they are set up. Yes, there are requirements, but principals have exemptions that they can use to allow kids in that don't meet the requirements. The idea that "everyone is CPS is doing it," isn't true at all. As part of AUSL, Phillips had the advantage of having extra resources for the program, plus the huge advantage of having middle school programs at AUSL elementary schools, which so happened to be run by a coach on the Phillips staff. This isn't to say that they didn't have huge challenges. (There are a number of mini documentaries about Phillips during their state run years documenting their many issues) But, they did have a number of advantages over other CPS schools. Look at the success Orr and Solario during the same period, they were also AUSL schools.
AUSL is currently focused on teacher training. However, in the past, AUSL was in the school turnaround business. In 2010, Phillips was a turnaround, meaning every staff member was replaced, and AUSL managed the school from top to bottom. AUSL schools were not part of CPS networks. AUSL was its own network. AUSL also managed K-8 turnaround schools where they implemented tackle football teams, wrestling, and other competitive sports programs that mainly only played other AUSL teams.
This is not to take away from the coaches and players at Phillips but trust me when I tell you, the money and resources pumped into that program when they were on top likely will not be seen in a CPS school anytime soon.
Just saying a 3-6 and 6-4 record at Sandburg with a loss to LW Central was never tolerated in the early 2000’s. I don’t expect perfection but the traffic out of the district is still present. If they could keep the home grown Eagles it could be different.
If you want to have fun check residency logs.
I completely agree that true unbounded schools like Simeon have an advantage. I'm not saying "everyone is doing it" - I'm saying it's very hard for a traditional neighborhood school to compete when there are so many options. Look at the neighborhood school around Simeon - Hirsch: it has 100 kids and can no longer even field a football team.
It looks like I am indeed wrong about the requirements to enroll out of zone so I appreciate the correction, but regardless, the special programs are clearly not a huge barrier to entry.
My point is that, from a football perspective, the way CPS has been running itself encourages a "flavor of the month" attitude towards enrollment for athletes. You end of with spikes in success (The aforementioned Orr, Solorio, Clark, etc.) and then back to reality, while enrollment at neighborhood schools (with several exceptions) is in the tank. That makes it really hard to build football culture and consistent success.
Anyway, it's definitely part of a broader conversation that football is a very small part of. I hope Neighborhood schools like MP, Taft, LP, Amundsen, etc. keep building on the success they've had recently!
A few additional notes:
- Kenwood is not a selective enrollment school - they are a neighborhood school with an IB program just like LP. Their attendance boundary is 47th - 60th, cottage grove - Lake Michigan
- Let me correct my earlier post: Phillips is now an attendance boundary school. Not sure when this took effect.
You would also be surprised how many students are protected by the McKinney-Vento Act. While a large percentage are truly homeless or their living situation is unstable. There are others taking advantage of the act.
I'm totally on board with your point around the enhanced resources. Semantically, Phillips has always been a "CPS school" and has competed in the Chicago Public League, regardless of turnaround status, outside management, additional resources, etc.
A registrars nightmare especially when it comes to special transportation issues which are also required. To think what can evolve down the road with migrant issues it is baffling. Sports are a very small portion of the real issue.
Sandburg was routinely a 7-2/6-3 type team who won a game or two in the playoffs when they were the new place city people moved to 25 years ago. Now people who grew up in the city but don't want to live there move to Frankfort, Mokena, New Lenox or the Mt. Greenwood side of Oak Lawn.
They look about the same to me. There were recent years prior to the new regime where they would upset us or LWE (this is when we were solid). But still be between 3-6 & 6-3. That seems to be their range.
Similar thing happened with HF. People saw the awful record they had the season prior to Buz, but they were in the semifinals not too long before that. He did make them more consistent though.
Things go in cycles. Despite East's steadiness and Lockport's breakout a couple years ago its just not a strong conference. And I think even teams that lost to SWSB teams (or had close games) were exposed ie Plainfield N, NC, Hinsdale C, Kenwood, NN, HF (lost to Brook)...
The Red has definitely improved this season so we'll see how that goes. Also, can't wait to see how this DVC partnership works out. Glad we're missing it though, wouldn't see the playoffs for a long time.
CPS schools should be playing under a reverse multiplier or divisor if you will. Playing down a class or three would put them into the same category as schools pulling from lower enrollment or less resources. If they are able to win consistently or feel they are able to meet the challenge of playing in a higher class then they would need to show it in the playoffs (not just blowhard coach speak) and should be able to waive the divisor to play in their regularly assigned class. The lack of resources and facilities has been discussed plenty, but giving some of those schools a better chance at winning consistently would probably help bolster their team numbers and allow them to build some depth. Expecting anyone from the Red to compete in the top three classes, will continue to get the results you see consistently. Likewise blue teams will have a better chance at competing near the lower class schools. Doing that allows CPS/the state to continue to keep out the truly bottom of the barrel white conference teams as they build their programs to compete for blue and eligibility for state. And for those white teams that want to get better and compete for city playoffs, win (be willing to co-op) and build a program so you can earn the opportunity.
Transfers ,AUSL giving Resources, and Youth Programs that was the secret to success.
Chicago has No youth programs, We have some club teams but the top kids usually go to a Private school nobody can offer and compete with that nor can you blame parents for choosing a better situation.
Even basketball is slowly losing its touch.
A sign of the times for Chicago. Maybe the CPS Mayor has a plan for inner city athletes to excel?
Agree with the sentiment but there are youth programs. Jr Bear football runs teams at 14 park district parks. Club teams are North Side Titans, Wildwood Seminoles, Shabonna Saints, Windy City Dolphins, probably others.
But agree that there are not enough. And very rare that those kids stick together through high school.
I grew up in Clearing before moving to South Burbs.Many great football & baseball players but they ended up at various CCL Schools & ESC schools too.Imagine the football teams they would have had at Kennedy & Baseball as well.
It was also a rough weekend for Wheaton South, Clown.
WWS' loss to Hersey was a premature ending to another "very special" season for the Tigers.
Ignatius is playing 8A in 2023. They played in 6A in 2022 and made the semifinals. The school has 1460 kids. Next closest school to them in enrollment is Loyola Academy with 1986.
If you remove Loyola and Ignatius from the list of 8A teams the average enrollment is 2933. Over twice the size of Ignatius and 48% larger than LA.
Interestingly only Huntley is the only school larger than the average (LA & SICP excluded) and a top 8 seed.
That's my mistake - I was looking at the multipliers for the previous 2 year cycle.
Looks like practically every CCL school in the playoffs this year has a multiplier except for Montini.
When did I call this a special season for WWS? In the preseason I predicted 3-4 wins so they actually over performed what was expected.
Can y’all just merge this with the @ramblinman annual rant thread? Similar symptoms from same underlying issue…enrollment based classes do not create competitive equity
They are a CPS school whether they were under a charter program or not.
Scroll up it’s explained pretty thoroughly by someone else. There was a huge difference in funding and boundaries for AUSL schools.
Saying all CPS schools are the same is like saying Payton is the same thing as Marshall.
What people have to understand that they there is a hierarchy amongst CPS schools based on population of students, selective enrollment status, academic status, alumni, and past success of all sports. The top schools in CPS are basically Young, Lane, Payton, Taft, Jones, Kenwood, Simeon and Morgan Park. Everyone else is considered below them.
When have you ever heard any CPS schools being upset about having to play better teams and getting blown out? It's always outsiders who try and think and make decisions for us and try to tell us how we feel about it.......CPS takes its lumps and comes back for more......most of the time, alot of CPS schools try to schedule the schools we lose to in football to play us in basketball and they refuse.
First, AUSL is not a charter program. Yes, turnaround schools, charter schools, neighborhood schools, selective enrollment, etc., are Chicago Public Schools. However, they're all CPS schools the same way Yale, Michigan, Ferris State, and Wisconsin-Whitewater are NCAA schools—completely different types of schools with the same governing body.
Similar threads
